Jump to content

Poisoned Russian spy.


Rab87

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Perhaps the Blair governments have something to do with why we have a tory government. And Corbyn has something to do with why that isn't going to change any time soon.

The Blair government was a tory government! Yes, it had more of a social conscience, but essentially kept the same economic system going. 

 

Corbyn offers a change. Yet the narrative insists he, and therfore Labour, are cranks, at best, evil commies at worst. 

 

Best not rock the boat, eh? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Victorian

    192

  • jake

    166

  • Jambo-Jimbo

    153

  • Space Mackerel

    151

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Francis Albert
1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

On point 4.    Precisely right re Corbyn but people (many in the Labour Party) can't see past the image of him that they've been spoon fed.    Only a continuation of his work will maintain Labour's progress.    Corbyn has all the authenticity but is unlikely to break through the wall of ignorance of what authentic politics can bring.

 

The pioneers get the arrows.    The settlers get the gold.

What exactly is this authenticity? Someone who has been disloyal to and  opposed every Labour government in his entire parliamentary career. Someone who demonstrates total lack of leadership.qualities  in relation to the didgusting anti semitic factions among his most virulent supporters.

As a lifelong labour supporter I totally disown Corbyn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Corbyn's "authenticity"? You have to be joking?

 

Not remotely. Unless you think an entire lifetime of campaigning on the same issues, retaining the same views and always being a huge outsider as a result is worth nothing? Unless you think him being the absolute opposite of a slick, dissembling, careerist only out for themselves and only interested in tomorrow's Daily Mail front page is worth nothing too?

 

Back in 2014, the Immigration Bill - which led directly to the national disgrace exposed this week - passed through Parliament with barely a murmur. Among the desperately few MPs to oppose it, speak against it and warn what it would lead to were John McDonnell, Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn. Who sat in their usual spot in the Commons: isolated by everyone else, few of whom gave the remotest damn.

 

Yet what do so many people do? Abbott is the recipient of vile racist abuse and death threats every single day, far more than any other MP. McDonnell is ridiculed as though he's going to create Venezuela in the UK, rather than the moderate social democracy Labour want. And Corbyn is sneered at, including by you. And we wonder why we have the politicians we have?

 

Corbyn was right about this, he was right about austerity, and he was right about Iraq - the watershed issue of this century - too. He gets support because people feel he actually understand them; he understands their concerns because he's been fighting for them for his whole life. Which is why, while Theresa May stayed away from Grenfell for days, Corbyn was straight down there and showing the humanity and compassion which has always been his best asset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Francis Albert
Just now, Boris said:

The Blair government was a tory government! Yes, it had more of a social conscience, but essentially kept the same economic system going. 

 

Corbyn offers a change. Yet the narrative insists he, and therfore Labour, are cranks, at best, evil commies at worst. 

 

Best not rock the boat, eh? 

The Blair government wss not a Tory government. That is just politically motivated nonsense.

That Corbyn offers a chsnge is not a sufficient reason for supporting him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Francis Albert said:

What exactly is this authenticity? Someone who has been disloyal to and  opposed every Labour government in his entire parliamentary career. Someone who demonstrates total lack of leadership.qualities  in relation to the didgusting anti semitic factions among his most virulent supporters.

As a lifelong labour supporter I totally disown Corbyn.

 

You think being loyal to a government when one's own principles are at odds with it and towing a party line is... authentic?    

 

Authentic.    Honest.   Genuine.    Principled.      Not fake.      Not outcome driven.

 

Do you even know what authentic means?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

"Extreme intergenerational inequality"? One of the great myths of our age. All those young people who can't spend hundreds of pounds a year on updating their phones. Or in fact who can and do.

 

An absolutely disgraceful, myopic beyond belief post. One third of millennials will be renting their entire lives. At a time when the rental market is out of control, they have no security of tenancy so are forced to move constantly, can't complain to their landlords of damage because many are instantly evicted, and there aren't even laws ensuring all homes are fit for human habitation (because the Tories, most of them landlords, voted against it).

 

Do tell me what those millennials are going to do when they reach retirement age with no assets? Oh yes, I've got it: there won't be a retirement age any longer, because their elders have pissed the entire pot away on themselves.

 

Today's thirty-somethings are part of the first generation in modern history to be poorer than their parents - and that trend is accelerating. But y'know, iphones Starbucks lattes avocado toast hur hur hur. I really expect better from you, tbh.

 

612.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Blair government wss not a Tory government. That is just politically motivated nonsense.

That Corbyn offers a chsnge is not a sufficient reason for supporting him.

Whatever. That's your opinion. I've stated mine. 

We move on. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

You think being loyal to a government when one's own principles are at odds with it and towing a party line is... authentic?    

 

Authentic.    Honest.   Genuine.    Principled.      Not fake.      Not outcome driven.

 

Do you even know what authentic means?

 

:clap::clap::clap: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Francis Albert
7 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Not remotely. Unless you think an entire lifetime of campaigning on the same issues, retaining the same views and always being a huge outsider as a result is worth nothing? Unless you think him being the absolute opposite of a slick, dissembling, careerist only out for themselves and only interested in tomorrow's Daily Mail front page is worth nothing too?

 

Back in 2014, the Immigration Bill - which led directly to the national disgrace exposed this week - passed through Parliament with barely a murmur. Among the desperately few MPs to oppose it, speak against it and warn what it would lead to were John McDonnell, Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn. Who sat in their usual spot in the Commons: isolated by everyone else, few of whom gave the remotest damn.

 

Yet what do so many people do? Abbott is the recipient of vile racist abuse and death threats every single day, far more than any other MP. McDonnell is ridiculed as though he's going to create Venezuela in the UK, rather than the moderate social democracy Labour want. And Corbyn is sneered at, including by you. And we wonder why we have the politicians we have?

 

Corbyn was right about this, he was right about austerity, and he was right about Iraq - the watershed issue of this century - too. He gets support because people feel he actually understand them; he understands their concerns because he's been fighting for them for his whole life. Which is why, while Theresa May stayed away from Grenfell for days, Corbyn was straight down there and showing the humanity and compassion which has always been his best asset.

What do you think.about  his approach to anti-semitism within his supporters within the labour party?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Inauthentic politics.     Calculating what is popular and what is likely to achieve political success and tailoring policies and suggestions to suit.

 

Authentic politics.     Taking one's own political views and philosophy and formulating policies and suggestions from that point and sticking to them and asking voters to vote for them. 

 

Wuts this authenticity my arse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Francis Albert
7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

You think being loyal to a government when one's own principles are at odds with it and towing a party line is... authentic?    

 

Authentic.    Honest.   Genuine.    Principled.      Not fake.      Not outcome driven.

 

Do you even know what authentic means?

 I think being loyal at least occasionaly to.your own party is a virtue. Jeremy? Rarely at best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Francis Albert said:

 I think being loyal at least occasionaly to.your own party is a virtue. Jeremy? Rarely at best.

 

Why?    If he does not agree with policy then the AUTHENTIC thing to do is to take an opposing position on his own view.    

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What do you think.about  his approach to anti-semitism within his supporters within the labour party?

 

1. I think it's a significant issue which needs to be dealt with, but not remotely the issue which is claimed at all. I have no doubt - and I've seen studies which confirm it - that antisemitism is much more of a problem on the right than the left. And racism and xenophobia are infinitely more of one too.

 

2. We live in a time in which we know (though I'm sure you'll question it anyway) that Russia has interfered in elections all over the West; that Russia has murdered people with impunity on British soil; that Russia has precipitated the greatest political scandal and inquiry in the US since I don't know when; that Russia conducts cyberwarfare against us on a daily basis; and that Russia has whole armies of online trolls and bots whose mission is to cause division and chaos everywhere.

 

From this, it's increasingly obvious to me that a huge amount of the antisemitic tweets and Facebook posts which seemed to come out of nowhere when Corbyn was elected aren't from Labour members or Labour supporters at all. Theresa May's argument seems to be: "Russia did this, Russia did that and Russia is doing this... Russia is at war with us... but not Brexit and certainly not Labour - that's all Corbyn's fault". Bullshit. It's part of the exact same thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Francis Albert
1 minute ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

1. I think it's a significant issue which needs to be dealt with, but not remotely the issue which is claimed at all. I have no doubt - and I've seen studies which confirm it - that antisemitism is much more of a problem on the right than the left. And racism and xenophobia are infinitely more of one too.

 

2. We live in a time in which we know (though I'm sure you'll question it anyway) that Russia has interfered in elections all over the West; that Russia has murdered people with impunity on British soil; that Russia has precipitated the greatest political scandal and inquiry in the US since I don't know when; that Russia conducts cyberwarfare against us on a daily basis; and that Russia has whole armies of online trolls and bots whose mission is to cause division and chaos everywhere.

 

From this, it's increasingly obvious to me that a huge amount of the antisemitic tweets and Facebook posts which seemed to come out of nowhere when Corbyn was elected aren't from Labour members or Labour supporters at all. Theresa May's argument seems to be: "Russia did this, Russia did that and Russia is doing this... Russia is at war with us... but not Brexit and certainly not Labour - that's all Corbyn's fault". Bullshit. It's part of the exact same thing.

Sorry but what is your view of the anti-semitism of some of  Corbyn supporters and of Corbyn's reaction to that?

 Why is it not remotely the issue it is claimed to be? Even if it is not remotely the issue it is claimed to be, whatever that means, why should it not be addressed for the issue it is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry but what is your view of the anti-semitism of some of  Corbyn supporters and of Corbyn's reaction to that?

 Why is it not remotely the issue it is claimed to be? Even if it is not remotely the issue it is claimed to be, whatever that means, why should it not be addressed for the issue it is?

 

Because it's impossible to control what a few small elements of someone's supporter base does. Is it possible for the police to stop all crime? Is it possible for governments to stop all terrorism? Is it possible for all racism to be stopped? Is it possible for every single Hearts fan to not hold daft views and behave themselves impeccably at all times? And above all, is it possible for the leader of a UK political party not even in government to stop huge great armies of online bots pretending to be supporters of theirs? No.

 

The issue has been reported in such a way to make the public believe that the Labour Party is teeming with antisemitism, teeming with Jew hate. It isn't in any way. But it's been reported like that for a reason (and that reason has virtually nothing to do with stopping antisemitism).

 

And while the media obsesses over that, at today's press conference given by Theresa May, which lasted 15 minutes, not a single journalist - not one - asked anything related to Windrush. Astounding. And that is what "we're all in it together" really means. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Francis Albert
11 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Because it's impossible to control what a few small elements of someone's supporter base does. Is it possible for the police to stop all crime? Is it possible for governments to stop all terrorism? Is it possible for all racism to be stopped? Is it possible for every single Hearts fan to not hold daft views and behave themselves impeccably at all times? And above all, is it possible for the leader of a UK political party not even in government to stop huge great armies of online bots pretending to be supporters of theirs? No.

 

The issue has been reported in such a way to make the public believe that the Labour Party is teeming with antisemitism, teeming with Jew hate. It isn't in any way. But it's been reported like that for a reason (and that reason has virtually nothing to do with stopping antisemitism).

 

And while the media obsesses over that, at today's press conference given by Theresa May, which lasted 15 minutes, not a single journalist - not one - asked anything related to Windrush. Astounding. And that is what "we're all in it together" really means. 

 

 

Basically the anti-semitism issue was whipped up by corbyn's enemies

 By the same token the Windrush story was presumably whipped up by the Daily Mail to discredit the Tory government.

Anyway back on topic the police and security forces have identified persons of interest as potential suspects in Salisbury attack.. They are all believed to have returned to Russia so there is zero prospect of speaking to them let alone ever prosecuting them. The huge and expensive operation will however continue.

In any event i do not envy the failed assassins their reception back home. In Beria's day they would already have been killed or at best be in the Gulag.

 

 

Edited by Francis Albert
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, jake said:

Well said.

 

I do find it laughable the moral high ground taken on ways to kill people.

 

That's what I just don't get aboutchemical weapons. Why is getting gassed worse than getting blown to pieces. Why is having stinging eyes worse than losing a leg from a bullet??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, XB52 said:

That's what I just don't get aboutchemical weapons. Why is getting gassed worse than getting blown to pieces. Why is having stinging eyes worse than losing a leg from a bullet??

Anti personnel landmines are indiscriminate.

Wonder who the main suppliers of those are?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thunderstruck
12 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

An absolutely disgraceful, myopic beyond belief post. One third of millennials will be renting their entire lives. At a time when the rental market is out of control, they have no security of tenancy so are forced to move constantly, can't complain to their landlords of damage because many are instantly evicted, and there aren't even laws ensuring all homes are fit for human habitation (because the Tories, most of them landlords, voted against it).

 

Do tell me what those millennials are going to do when they reach retirement age with no assets? Oh yes, I've got it: there won't be a retirement age any longer, because their elders have pissed the entire pot away on themselves.

 

Today's thirty-somethings are part of the first generation in modern history to be poorer than their parents - and that trend is accelerating. But y'know, iphones Starbucks lattes avocado toast hur hur hur. I really expect better from you, tbh.

 

612.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fi

 

You and your charts, what are you like. No source, no context, no definition of data and no explanation of methodology. 

 

If the chart displays what you suggest, every cohort under the age of 65 is poorer than the previous.

 

I am by no means a “millennial” but, according to the chart, I am likely to be poorer than my parents - by about 20%, it the chart is an indication. Maybe more if the percentages are compounded - it is impossible to tell. 

 

Is CPI-H the best measure of inflation over that time-span?  A simple chart tells us nothing of the adjustments made. 

 

Your point on millennials may be valid but a chart without context is meaningless and is just a fancy graphic. Surely you wouldn’t want to be accused of statisticulation and undermine your position. 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

deesidejambo

On authenticity im with Corbyn.

 

And anyone who says they won’t vote for a party like LibDem “because they won’t get in” is part of the reason Tories and Labour benefit.

 

i day choose the issues that are most important to you at the time  and choose which party to vote for or against based on that.

 

But Just supporting any party like a football team is silly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/04/2018 at 22:54, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

 

And while the media obsesses over that, at today's press conference given by Theresa May, which lasted 15 minutes, not a single journalist - not one - asked anything related to Windrush. Astounding. And that is what "we're all in it together" really means. 

 

 

 

Ironic post .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seymour M Hersh

In 2002 39.6% of French folk rented their homes.

47.5% of Germans rented.

42.8% of Austrians rented.

36.7 of Danes rented.

35.2% of British folk rented

 

Seems to suggest the rental total is going down if the figures are at 33% projection for the wee millennials! 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
38 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

In 2002 39.6% of French folk rented their homes.

47.5% of Germans rented.

42.8% of Austrians rented.

36.7 of Danes rented.

35.2% of British folk rented

 

Seems to suggest the rental total is going down if the figures are at 33% projection for the wee millennials! 

 

:vrface::vrface::vrface:

 

The figures I quoted are for people renting for their entire lives

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seymour M Hersh
2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

:vrface::vrface::vrface:

 

The figures I quoted are for people renting for their entire lives

 

Snoreson = :rofl:or:notsure: or :rofl::rofl:

 

Or just best ignored!! :bolt:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

To be fair Seymour, I wouldn't expect a "Liverpool fan" who's a Tory and loved Thatcher to understand.

 

Love the club, hate the city and its people I assume? Because that's the only possible explanation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the lack of scepticism in the media that's so alarming.

The pictures and videos of the recent chemical attack coming from a group known as the sword of Islam.

 

The lack of in depth reporting about the nature of sectarian politic in the region regarding Saudi Iran and Syria.

 

Even though I've doubted the narrative new things come to light which even though posters on here can shed doubt on with lots of press .

I still find nuggets which throw a spanner.

 

Both Russia and US want investigation but US  want joint ones .

 

I'd post a video of such discussions but they tend to be ignored.

 

Wars that are international start with propaganda.

It's a joke that we either do not learn or are unwilling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's funny about this whole Russian false flag .

It's that Russia is in decline.

If anything those that want a stable world should be supportive of Moscow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
The Mighty Thor
On 4/20/2018 at 22:15, shaun.lawson said:

 

An absolutely disgraceful, myopic beyond belief post. One third of millennials will be renting their entire lives. At a time when the rental market is out of control, they have no security of tenancy so are forced to move constantly, can't complain to their landlords of damage because many are instantly evicted, and there aren't even laws ensuring all homes are fit for human habitation (because the Tories, most of them landlords, voted against it).

 

Do tell me what those millennials are going to do when they reach retirement age with no assets? Oh yes, I've got it: there won't be a retirement age any longer, because their elders have pissed the entire pot away on themselves.

 

Today's thirty-somethings are part of the first generation in modern history to be poorer than their parents - and that trend is accelerating. But y'know, iphones Starbucks lattes avocado toast hur hur hur. I really expect better from you, tbh.

 

612.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fi

What's to be done Shaun?

 

Public sector rentals? House building programmes? 

Do you accept the millennials and snowflakes generally suffer greatly from the you can have it all now/buy now pay later syndrome that their parents didn't? 

The concept of saving is alien to most of them.

 

Your flippant comment about Starbucks iPhones and avocado toasts is probably closer to the reason the poor millennials don't have a pot to piss in than you realise.    

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

What's to be done Shaun?

 

Public sector rentals? House building programmes? 

Do you accept the millennials and snowflakes generally suffer greatly from the you can have it all now/buy now pay later syndrome that their parents didn't? 

The concept of saving is alien to most of them.

 

Your flippant comment about Starbucks iPhones and avocado toasts is probably closer to the reason the poor millennials don't have a pot to piss in than you realise.    

 

 

Christ on a bike. 

 

No, I don't "accept" that steaming pile of gibberish. "The concept of saving is alien to millennials" because they have no disposable incomes to save. 

 

Gonna tell me how they're supposed to afford a mortgage when average house prices are now six times average salaries (12 times in London)? Gonna tell me how they're supposed to save when wages have been stagnant for a decade? Gonna tell me how they're supposed to save when they have massive student loans of up to 50K to pay off first? Gonna tell me how they're supposed to save when rental prices are exorbitant, and many get moved around from place to place every six months?

 

The "have it all now/pay later" culture? That's the preserve of their parents, who took out of the welfare state far more than they paid in, built up the country's massive national debt, and now expect their kids to pay for it (the "have it all now/pay never" culture). Their kids: poorer than their parents. But y'know, Starbucks and iPhones must be the reason. :rolleyes: 

 

Is this how it works when people get older? They start blaming the young without even bothering to inform themselves of what the young face? What's to be done? Massive housebuilding, rent caps and land value taxes. And the Tories to be voted out as soon as humanly possible.

Edited by shaun.lawson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mighty Thor
17 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Christ on a bike. 

 

No, I don't "accept" that steaming pile of gibberish. "The concept of saving is alien to millennials" because they have no disposable incomes to save. 

 

Gonna tell me how they're supposed to afford a mortgage when average house prices are now six times average salaries (12 times in London)? Gonna tell me how they're supposed to save when wages have been stagnant for a decade? Gonna tell me how they're supposed to save when they have massive student loans of up to 50K to pay off first? Gonna tell me how they're supposed to save when rental prices are exorbitant, and many get moved around from place to place every six months?

 

The "have it all now/pay later" culture? That's the preserve of their parents, who took out of the welfare state far more than they paid in, built up the country's massive national debt, and now expect their kids to pay for it (the "have it all now/pay never" culture). Their kids: poorer than their parents. But y'know, Starbucks and iPhones must be the reason. :rolleyes: 

 

Is this how it works when people get older? They start blaming the young without even bothering to inform themselves of what the young face? What's to be done? Massive housebuilding, rent caps and land value taxes. And the Tories to be voted out as soon as humanly possible.

Shaun that's quite hysterical even by your standards. 

The millenials are living the dream mate. Go to uni. Run up a big debt but don't worry about it cos you'll never really pay it back anyway and besides with your degree in Belgian Herring canning you'll have a great job at the end of it. Buy that 600 quid handbag and Pcp yourself a flash motor. Don't forget that holiday to Dubai too. Save for a deposit? Nah. piss and moan that its everyone else's fault and that you're really entitled to everything cos your parents have it all and they got it all for **** all too. 

The reason your hearing the millenials squeak is because they've had everything given to them for nowt and ehen they finally come to stand on their own two feet they can't. That's what parents have done wrong. Instilled a sense of entitlement into a generation plagued with learned helplessness. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I may just say something for the older generation.  I was not interested in going to University, primarily because I knew neither I or my parents could afford it.  When I had got to a new Country and realised my army background and head banging polis background would get me nowhere I went to night school and took my post secondary education. This was at considerable sacrifice of time and effort by my supportive devoted wife and myself. The sacrifice was wothwhile, because of bad counselling when I applied to finish my education at University I was told my studies in Criminology and Business administration should have been applied to one subject. The University offered me a two year degree program, but I had just hacked it for too long.

 

More by good luck than good judgement we did not have Starbucks with over inflated coffee prices, we did not have phones that we could converse with our friends at the cost of data the best phones, and laptops or I| pads. I have some knowledge of these with four  grandchildren all in their twenties.  As an older person I understand surprisingly enough being young and having to have what the others have, but I have also an understanding that you cannot have and also get, I also understand that many go to University and get degrees that are ten a penny, this I would say by simple mathematics would indicate that there are too many qualified for jobs at their level, so at some point there are a group who are stuck at a certain lower level financially, but still have the demands of peer power.

 

I am not against the young, in fact I am all for them, I have no one that asks for advice, they are intelligent enough as am I that I have none to give, because our lives, lifestyles, expectations, and, desires are totally different.  It is not that we older have taken the half full glass and emptied it, its just that life is different, and the glass is empty.

Edited by bobsharp
Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Shaun that's quite hysterical even by your standards. 

The millenials are living the dream mate. Go to uni. Run up a big debt but don't worry about it cos you'll never really pay it back anyway and besides with your degree in Belgian Herring canning you'll have a great job at the end of it. Buy that 600 quid handbag and Pcp yourself a flash motor. Don't forget that holiday to Dubai too. Save for a deposit? Nah. piss and moan that its everyone else's fault and that you're really entitled to everything cos your parents have it all and they got it all for **** all too. 

The reason your hearing the millenials squeak is because they've had everything given to them for nowt and ehen they finally come to stand on their own two feet they can't. That's what parents have done wrong. Instilled a sense of entitlement into a generation plagued with learned helplessness. 

 

Scary. Do some research. Look at the figures. Stop parroting uninformed stereotypical ridiculous bollocks. It's their parents (very cheap housing, free education, private pensions, jobs for life, a welfare state before it was destroyed) who've had "everything given to them for nowt", or as near as dammit. That's why the UK's debt is so enormous. 

 

I wouldn't mind - but you're meant to be one of the more intelligent posters on here. Your two posts on this are an absolute embarrassment. 

Edited by shaun.lawson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mighty Thor
6 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Scary. Do some research. Look at the figures. Stop parroting uninformed stereotypical ridiculous bollocks. It's their parents (very cheap housing, free education, private pensions, jobs for life, a welfare state before it was destroyed) who've had "everything given to them for nowt", or as near as dammit. That's why the UK's debt is so enormous. 

 

I wouldn't mind - but you're meant to be one of the more intelligent posters on here. Your two posts on this are an absolute embarrassment. 

Shaun

 

It's a difference of opinion.

 

On the subject of parroting uninformed stereotypical bollocks; Very cheap housing, free education, private pensions, jobs for life and a welfare state? perhaps you're looking through the prism of your own upbringing but the council housing scheme of my youth (probably what you'd call a sink estate), high school education, state pension and 3 day weeks, redundancy ith added strikes and no eligibility to dole money and crisis loans are my personal recollections of the salad days of my parents.

 

I've done quite extensive research Shaun. Fifty years of it and similar to Bob's post above I genuinely feel I've never had it handed to me on a plate, but more importantly and this is where my generation differ from the millennial's is that i've never looked at what other people have got and thought it's alright for them. If you want something, you work for it. If you can't afford it, don't buy it or don't do it. 

 

The UK's personal debt is enormous because people are spending beyond their means, not on food on the table and roofs over heads but on shiny tat. 

 

Here's some research Shaun. I have two 20 year olds at home. both could have gone to Uni. Neither did. Their choice. Why? because other than a first year, year long,  pish up, they both saw through the dream being sold. Neither wanted to come out with 40 grand worth of debt for 4 years of 6 months worth of term time/12 hours per week to have a piece pf paper that unless you're a lawyer/doctor/vet has zero relevance. Smart boys right?

 

Here's some more research. I have two millennial lads working for me, you know the most impoverished generation ever, who won't put a T-shirt on their backs unless it's Lacoste/Boss at 90 quid a throw. Iphone 10's at 60 quid a month, PCP cars at 300 quid a month. It's all on the never never. They have no savings. They are making no attempt to fly the nest. They'll be like Ronnie Corbett in Sorry, living with their Ma when they're 50. They have no private pensions. In summary they are making life choices. Their life choices. Mine was to buy a shithole flat in Leith  two months before black Wednesday that it transpires i couldn't really afford and i had to beg overtime and took a second evening job to pay for. That's the difference. 

 

So with respect, step outside your bubble of academia and look around at what's going on and stop buying the bullshit that is the millennial's mantra that everything is someone else's fault. It's not. It's personal choice and with that, and here's the bit that they really really don't get, comes accountability and responsibility for the decisions you make. 

 

As for my supposed intelligence. It's overstated. After all i didn't go to Uni :wink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And the Russian spy???? Is there not one post where that bore can stay off so it can remain on subject??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson
3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

If you want something, you work for it. 

 

Utterly useless advice given how pathetic wages are in comparison to mortgages and rent prices. There's a reason UK social mobility is the lowest in the Western world. Born rich, die rich; born poor, die poor.

 

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I have two 20 year olds at home. both could have gone to Uni. Neither did. Their choice. Why? because other than a first year, year long,  pish up, they both saw through the dream being sold. Neither wanted to come out with 40 grand worth of debt for 4 years of 6 months worth of term time/12 hours per week to have a piece pf paper that unless you're a lawyer/doctor/vet has zero relevance. Smart boys right?

 

Good for them. Many people don't have that chance, because (1) their parents won't let them stay until well into their twenties or thirties; and crucially (2) most employers won't hire unless someone has a degree. Despite that degree being close to useless. That's the system we've created Thor. And that's our fault, not those who are victims of it.

 

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Here's some more research. I have two millennial lads working for me, you know the most impoverished generation ever, who won't put a T-shirt on their backs unless it's Lacoste/Boss at 90 quid a throw. Iphone 10's at 60 quid a month, PCP cars at 300 quid a month. It's all on the never never. They have no savings. They are making no attempt to fly the nest. They'll be like Ronnie Corbett in Sorry, living with their Ma when they're 50. They have no private pensions. In summary they are making life choices. Their life choices.

 

I love how you blame them, not the financial realities they're faced by. Those realities mean many don't bother saving for the long term because frankly, it's hopeless. Increasing numbers of people will be living with their parents until they're 30 or even 40. Watch what happens to birth rates and families as a result. 

 

Oh, and by the way, those feckless, living the dream millennials... are saving more than the generation above them, despite having less to begin with.

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/are-millennials-more-frugal-than-we-give-them-credit-for/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mighty Thor
5 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Utterly useless advice given how pathetic wages are in comparison to mortgages and rent prices. There's a reason UK social mobility is the lowest in the Western world. Born rich, die rich; born poor, die poor.

 

So the advice is don't work for anything, you'll get it all given to you? Sorry Shaun but that's nonsense. risible nonsense.

You're again falling into the trap of it's all someone else's fault. Could it be that younger people in other countries are prepared to get off their arses and work for what they want more than their peers over here?

 

5 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Good for them. Many people don't have that chance, because (1) their parents won't let them stay until well into their twenties or thirties; and crucially (2) most employers won't hire unless someone has a degree. Despite that degree being close to useless. That's the system we've created Thor. And that's our fault, not those who are victims of it.

 

Again it's choices Shaun. The UK labour market doesn't start and end with degree qualified people. I'd agree with you that a degree nowadays is close to worthless. They're not vocational or practical and the harsh fact is most of what passes for a degree nowadays used to be provided by the polytechnics of yesteryear over 2 years not 4.

Choices. No one, as far as i'm aware, forces kids go to Uni. It's a choice by the majority of them. 

 

5 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

I love how you blame them, not the financial realities they're faced by. Those realities mean many don't bother saving for the long term because frankly, it's hopeless. Increasing numbers of people will be living with their parents until they're 30 or even 40. Watch what happens to birth rates and families as a result. 

 

Oh, and by the way, those feckless, living the dream millennials... are saving more than the generation above them, despite having less to begin with.

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/are-millennials-more-frugal-than-we-give-them-credit-for/

 

Did you even read what i wrote? The financial realities are that most of them are making choices to spend their income on irrelevant stuff with absolutely no sacrifice or investment in their own future. Choices Shaun. £90 t-shirt or save for a deposit? 

The reality is that the millennials living in the family nest generally pay little or no digs and have a higher disposable income than my generation did and in fact i have two at home who have more disposable cash in their pockets at the end of the month than I do by the time i've paid the mortgage and bills.

 

The problem is that lots and lots of them are living the dream. One they can't afford and one they firmly believe that someone else should be picking up the tab for. That's their choice and I wish them well with it.

 

EDIT: We're coming at this from very different angles here and we'll never agree on it so best left there. :thumb:

Edited by The Mighty Thor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Russian spy??  Can you 2 not take your wee discussion to pm or create your own thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see it's 3 - 4 weeks for the OPCW to test the soil samples from Syria. They managed a Novichok in a morning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

deesidejambo
16 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

So the advice is don't work for anything, you'll get it all given to you? Sorry Shaun but that's nonsense. risible nonsense.

You're again falling into the trap of it's all someone else's fault. Could it be that younger people in other countries are prepared to get off their arses and work for what they want more than their peers over here?

 

 

Again it's choices Shaun. The UK labour market doesn't start and end with degree qualified people. I'd agree with you that a degree nowadays is close to worthless. They're not vocational or practical and the harsh fact is most of what passes for a degree nowadays used to be provided by the polytechnics of yesteryear over 2 years not 4.

Choices. No one, as far as i'm aware, forces kids go to Uni. It's a choice by the majority of them. 

 

 

Did you even read what i wrote? The financial realities are that most of them are making choices to spend their income on irrelevant stuff with absolutely no sacrifice or investment in their own future. Choices Shaun. £90 t-shirt or save for a deposit? 

The reality is that the millennials living in the family nest generally pay little or no digs and have a higher disposable income than my generation did and in fact i have two at home who have more disposable cash in their pockets at the end of the month than I do by the time i've paid the mortgage and bills.

 

The problem is that lots and lots of them are living the dream. One they can't afford and one they firmly believe that someone else should be picking up the tab for. That's their choice and I wish them well with it.

 

EDIT: We're coming at this from very different angles here and we'll never agree on it so best left there. :thumb:

Gents - good debate and I see value in both your arguments.  Worthy of another thread imo.

 

So can you bin it and move to another thread - this one is about the Russian Spy thang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Jambof3tornado

Strange. Cant accidentally come into contact with nerve agent. Plenty more to this story to come.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Strange. Cant accidentally come into contact with nerve agent. Plenty more to this story to come.

 

No confirmation of nerve agent at this stage. The only details released by the investigators suggested that there were remnants of Betty Turpin's hotpot around the scene of where the two were found and under their fingernails. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...