Hard Brexit

[jake]

23 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Principles don't pay bills. Don't buy food. Don't keep trade free flowing. Don't allow for free movement. Don't ensure our citizens resident in the EU aren't treated as third nation nationals under EU treaty. 

 

All this reminds me of the line from Catch-22, "Anything worth dying for was certainly worth living for". 

 

 

That's why they are principles.

And if you believe we won't pay bills won't have food won't be allowed to travel and will be treated as "third nation nationals under EU treaty.

Then I just have to laugh.

 

By the way third nation nationals being catogorised by the tolerant EU?

 

HOLY FEK

 

 

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And I could argue noone under 30 or even 65 should have been given the vote. After all many of those younger seem to think that post-Brexit it will be significantly more difficult to travel within Europe or to work and live in Europe but those of us of a certain age remember that it was perfectly possible before 1974.

Come on, Frank. You're a smart guy. Of course it was possible to work in Europe pre '74. But let's not pretend it was as easy as it is at the moment. 

 

I'm not convinced Brexit will be the Armageddon that some think it will but I'm pretty sure things will be a lot tougher than they are now for the immediate future. Sure, things might be better in the long run. They also might be worse. Personally, I was quite happy with the way things were and, to paraphrase the great Sir Terry Pratchett, all I want is for today to be pretty much like yesterday and for tomorrow to be pretty much like today. The complete uncertainty is what I'm really against and the fact that the eejits in charge don't seem to know what they're doing or even what it is they want is a ****ing disgrace. 

[jake]

8 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Come on, Frank. You're a smart guy. Of course it was possible to work in Europe pre '74. But let's not pretend it was as easy as it is at the moment. 

 

I'm not convinced Brexit will be the Armageddon that some think it will but I'm pretty sure things will be a lot tougher than they are now for the immediate future. Sure, things might be better in the long run. They also might be worse. Personally, I was quite happy with the way things were and, to paraphrase the great Sir Terry Pratchett, all I want is for today to be pretty much like yesterday and for tomorrow to be pretty much like today. The complete uncertainty is what I'm really against and the fact that the eejits in charge don't seem to know what they're doing or even what it is they want is a ****ing disgrace. 

The eejits in charge didn't expect the result.

Better uncertainty than the certainty of what we have.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Come on, Frank. You're a smart guy. Of course it was possible to work in Europe pre '74. But let's not pretend it was as easy as it is at the moment. 

 

I'm not convinced Brexit will be the Armageddon that some think it will but I'm pretty sure things will be a lot tougher than they are now for the immediate future. Sure, things might be better in the long run. They also might be worse. Personally, I was quite happy with the way things were and, to paraphrase the great Sir Terry Pratchett, all I want is for today to be pretty much like yesterday and for tomorrow to be pretty much like today. The complete uncertainty is what I'm really against and the fact that the eejits in charge don't seem to know what they're doing or even what it is they want is a ****ing disgrace. 

I don't really think it was that different. You needed to find a job which probably required fluency in a foreign language which ruled out 95% or more of Brits. The numbers of Brits working in Europe is tiny compared to those Europeans living and working in the UK partly for that reason. Many Americans and others can and do.live and work in Europe including the UK despite not being EU citizens.

[Francis Albert]

6 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Irish border??

 

 

 

It is a border. The Good Friday Agreement acknowledges that by talking of cross-border cooperation (whilst saying nothing about the absence of border controls). So it is a border. It is in Ireland. So it is an Irish border. 

Sorry Dara you are talking crap.

[jake]

The more I hear of how difficult it is to leave the more  I think it feels like escape.

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

You may laugh but it’s not that far away. 

Doesn’t suit your narrative though. 

 

 

Youve used location settings in your smart phone to solve point of origin and WTO tariffs around the world? 

Im laughing alright. 

 

Maybe Treeza May could use the LRT Bus app as a starting point for negotiations? 

[Space Mackerel]

29 minutes ago, jake said:

The more I hear of how difficult it is to leave the more  I think it feels like escape.

 

No ones stopping the U.K. from leaving jake, they just want to leave but be part of the club. 

[Cruyff Turn]

I wish they’d just stop beating around the bush, walk away from negotiations and get on with their No deal. That’s what is going to happen anyway, so get on with it. Even if May manages to fudge something together, it will be voted down in parliament and they’ll decide on no deal anyway. Its a waste of time and money.

 

I’m not in favour of a peoples vote. That will just muddy the waters further.

 

England and Wales can enjoy eating flies and maggots in their importef American food, working 50 hr weeks for 4 quid an hour, being held without trial for weeks or months on end, their NHS dismantled and sold off to American firms. That is what they voted for, give them what they want.

 

Ireland can be re-unified. That solves that. In a secret ballot, that’s what the majority will vote for, make no mistake. 

 

Scotland can go their own way and get on with things. That solves that. 

 

It is now the only and best way forward. It is, so ****ing embrace it. This is what England wanted and they are dragging Scotland, and the whole of Ireland through a quagmire of shite for their Brexit wet dream. 

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I wish they’d just stop beating around the bush, walk away from negotiations and get on with their No deal. That’s what is going to happen anyway, so get on with it. Even if May manages to fudge something together, it will be voted down in parliament and they’ll decide on no deal anyway. Its a waste of time and money.

 

I’m not in favour of a peoples vote. That will just muddy the waters further.

 

England and Wales can enjoy eating flies and maggots in their importef American food, working 50 hr weeks for 4 quid an hour, being held without trial for weeks or months on end, their NHS dismantled and sold off to American firms. That is what they voted for, give them what they want.

 

Ireland can be re-unified. That solves that. In a secret ballot, that’s what the majority will vote for, make no mistake. 

 

Scotland can go their own way and get on with things. That solves that. 

 

It is now the only and best way forward. It is, so ****ing embrace it. This is what England wanted and they are dragging Scotland, and the whole of Ireland through a quagmire of shite for their Brexit wet dream. 

 

Cant disagree with any of that. 

 

 

[JamboX2]

21 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The UK has said from day one that EU citizens in the UK will be able to stay. At first it said that this depended on reciprocal treatment for the far smaller numbers of UK citizens living in the EU. Recently it has dropped even this reasonable qualification. Yet the EU continues to hold both UK citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK as hostages in the negotiation. 

 

Only in a deal scenario will that happen. We can do what we want. We are leaving. EU Members are bound by EU treaties.

 

When will leavers wake up to this simple fact. The EU and it's nations are bound by legally binding treaties to certain positions and rules. Like treatment of EU citizens and non-EU citizens. The EU and it's members are bound to act in a certain way. 

 

It is for the UK to propose an exit that can work within the rules of the EU as the leaving member. 

 

Canada got a trade deal within the rules. Japan did. Norway did. Switzerland. Ukraine. Iceland. All have deals which account for EU rules. Yet we don't want to abide by that as a third party.

 

We want the same benefits as non-members. It's not going to happen.  

[JamboX2]

Delete 

Edited October 18, 2018 by JamboX2

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Only in a deal scenario will that happen. We can do what we want. We are leaving. EU Members are bound by EU treaties.

 

When will leavers wake up to this simple fact. The EU and it's nations are bound by legally binding treaties to certain positions and rules. Like treatment of EU citizens and non-EU citizens. The EU and it's members are bound to act in a certain way. 

 

It is for the UK to propose an exit that can work within the rules of the EU as the leaving member. 

 

Canada got a trade deal within the rules. Japan did. Norway did. Switzerland. Ukraine. Iceland. All have deals which account for EU rules. Yet we don't want to abide by that as a third party.

 

We want the same benefits as non-members. It's not going to happen.  

 

If it were as straightforward as you claim then the EU would have ended negotiations before now and told us no deal is possible.

 

Most of the countries you list are geographically not near the EU and have other primary markets like the Americas and Asia so a deal such as Canada have is fine.

 

Norway aren't particularly comfortable with their second class deal, but aren't as significant as the UK is in Europe.

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, JamboX2 said:

 

Re-unification solves Ireland? Really? Deary me. 

 

So instead of British soldiers in Catholic areas we have Irish ones in Prorestant areas? 

 

No deal for England means a hard border in Carlisle and Berwick. Which is crap  for Scotland.

 

This is bigger than just certain parts of Britain.

 

Why is it crap for Scotland being independent?

[JamboX2]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

If it were as straightforward as you claim then the EU would have ended negotiations before now and told us no deal is possible.

 

Most of the countries you list are geographically not near the EU and have other primary markets like the Americas and Asia so a deal such as Canada have is fine.

 

Norway aren't particularly comfortable with their second class deal, but aren't as significant as the UK is in Europe.

 

We are asking the EU to take positions which it cannot or it has said are unacceptable. If you want to have frictionless trade; customs union. If you want to have market alignment; single market. 

 

Simple.

[JamboX2]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

Why is it crap for Scotland being independent?

 

Indy may not be. A hard border is. I assume you're happy having to present a passport to go south of the border?

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, JamboX2 said:

 

Indy may not be. A hard border is. I assume you're happy having to present a passport to go south of the border?

 

Looks like I’m going to provide a passport to go anywhere now. Why not on the odd time I go to England? 

[frankblack]

Just now, JamboX2 said:

 

We are asking the EU to take positions which it cannot or it has said are unacceptable. If you want to have frictionless trade; customs union. If you want to have market alignment; single market. 

 

Simple.

 

My point is that there is a lot of posturing going on and this will continue until either a compromise occurs or one side walks away.

 

That is the nature of negotiations.

[NANOJAMBO]

8 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Only in a deal scenario will that happen. We can do what we want. We are leaving. EU Members are bound by EU treaties.

 

When will leavers wake up to this simple fact. The EU and it's nations are bound by legally binding treaties to certain positions and rules. Like treatment of EU citizens and non-EU citizens. The EU and it's members are bound to act in a certain way. 

 

It is for the UK to propose an exit that can work within the rules of the EU as the leaving member. 

 

Canada got a trade deal within the rules. Japan did. Norway did. Switzerland. Ukraine. Iceland. All have deals which account for EU rules. Yet we don't want to abide by that as a third party.

 

We want the same benefits as non-members. It's not going to happen.  

In a nut shell. 

 

Amazing reaction down here to the news that France is going to introduce legislation covering Brits currently living/working in France and visas for travel. It's hitting home that EU are not messing about and while Maybot was seemingly upset at the French proposal she was apparently told that the UK can do what it likes for EU citizens but France will act to regularise the position around citizens from third countries ie the UK. They will do because they have to as an EU member state. This is going to hit a lot of people who never dreamed would be affected.

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, JamboX2 said:

 

Re-unification solves Ireland? Really? Deary me. 

 

So instead of British soldiers in Catholic areas we have Irish ones in Prorestant areas? 

 

No deal for England means a hard border in Carlisle and Berwick. Which is crap  for Scotland.

 

This is bigger than just certain parts of Britain.

The majority of N.Ireland would vote for it, including Protestants in a secret ballot. They’re all Irishmen after all. 

 

Why would they have Irish soldiers in Protestant areas?

 

And who cares if there’d be a hard border between Scotland and England. 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

My point is that there is a lot of posturing going on and this will continue until either a compromise occurs or one side walks away.

 

That is the nature of negotiations.

Agreed but the EU has been consistent about what is not negotiable (eg four freedoms) and are apparently exasperated that UK negotiators just will not accept this. From my view down here in Englandshire I would say most people I  know who voted leave just don't understand this point, not even after two years of "negotiations".  Whatever (compromise) agreement is reached we can be sure the four freedom will not be compromised.IMO.  If the EU gives way on this then they might as well dismantle the whole thing. 

[Cruyff Turn]

9 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Indy may not be. A hard border is. I assume you're happy having to present a passport to go south of the border?

1 minute of inconvenience. ?

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The majority of N.Ireland would vote for it, including Protestants in a secret ballot. They’re all Irishmen after all. 

 

Why would they have Irish soldiers in Protestant areas?

 

And who cares if there’d be a hard border between Scotland and England. 

 

The break up of the U.K. is imminent, I think a lot of posters on here are slowly coming to terms with this now. 

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

The break up of the U.K. is imminent, I think a lot of posters on here are slowly coming to terms with this now. 

I think you might be right but bizzarrely , IMO, it may come about because folks in NI may now see that Eire is a more liberal society (gay marriage, abortion) and is doing better economically. The EU debate and the fact the DUP is holding  NI to ransom (the vast majority voted to stay in the EU) might just convince enough voters to go for reunification. It's weird as a Scot living down here hearing MAybot saying no British PM would vote for anything that means the break up of the UK (but she's only talking about NI in this context)  when Scotland might decide that post Brexit is just a price not worth paying and may (also) go its own way. Scotland quitting the UK does not seem a threat at the moment. It's as though it's all  about/only about the NI border situation. 

[Francis Albert]

23 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

In a nut shell. 

 

Amazing reaction down here to the news that France is going to introduce legislation covering Brits currently living/working in France and visas for travel. It's hitting home that EU are not messing about and while Maybot was seemingly upset at the French proposal she was apparently told that the UK can do what it likes for EU citizens but France will act to regularise the position around citizens from third countries ie the UK. They will do because they have to as an EU member state. This is going to hit a lot of people who never dreamed would be affected.

There is nothing whatsoever to prevent the EU from offering special status to former EU citizens residing in the EU just as the UK has offered (indeed promised) to EU citizens residing in the UK. If the positions were reversed the UK would be reviled and thousands would be protesting in Trafalgar Square.

[Cruyff Turn]

9 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

The break up of the U.K. is imminent, I think a lot of posters on here are slowly coming to terms with this now. 

Brexit put an end to an already disfunctional U.K. , it was barely working with Devolution in the first place. The whole thing has been blown out of the water and the Tories have stomped all over the devolution settlements for their own ends. 

 

The U.K. has failed to evolve into a 21st Century Democracy. It’s not a Union, it’s Colonialism, It simply does not work. If the UK had become a Federal state with full autonomy given to each nation half a Century ago then it might have worked. Too little too late now. 

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The majority of N.Ireland would vote for it, including Protestants in a secret ballot. They’re all Irishmen after all. 

 

Why would they have Irish soldiers in Protestant areas?

 

And who cares if there’d be a hard border between Scotland and England. 

Why do the majority in Northern Ireland consistently vote for Unionist parties in secret ballots? 

And why do you assume only Irish Republicans  whose threat of violent opposition to border controls seems to be dictating the terms of Brexit are the only potential threat to peace in Northern Ireland?

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

There is nothing whatsoever to prevent the EU from offering special status to former EU citizens residing in the EU just as the UK has offered (indeed promised) to EU citizens residing in the UK. If the positions were reversed the UK would be reviled and thousands would be protesting in Trafalgar 

I never said otherwise. But in the end , we get the benefits of being in the club. Or not. Protesting? I doubt it. 

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I never said otherwise. But in the end , we get the benefits of being in the club. Or not. Protesting? I doubt it. 

Come on. Of course there would be protests if we even hinted at restricting the rights of EU citzens resident here to stay here. But for the French it is OK in relation to UK citizens resident there?

 

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Brexit put an end to an already disfunctional U.K. , it was barely working with Devolution in the first place. The whole thing has been blown out of the water and the Tories have stomped all over the devolution settlements for their own ends. 

 

The U.K. has failed to evolve into a 21st Century Democracy. It’s not a Union, it’s Colonialism, It simply does not work. If the UK had become a Federal state with full autonomy given to each nation half a Century ago then it might have worked. Too little too late now. 

Colonialism??? Do you even know what the word means? 

[Cruyff Turn]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Why do the majority in Northern Ireland consistently vote for Unionist parties in secret ballots? 

And why do you assume only Irish Republicans  whose threat of violent opposition to border controls seems to be dictating the terms of Brexit are the only potential threat to peace in Northern Ireland?

They are voting for their MP or Stormont Representative for their area? 

 

Believe it or not, not all Protestants in N.Ireland are hardcore Unionists and not all Catholics are hardcore Nationalists and some just don’t give a shit about any of it. There are enough on both sides to make it happen and most folk clearly want to be EU Citizens. 

 

I don’t assume that at all. The majority want peace and that was reflected in the GFA. The benefits of being in the EU and the benefits of indefinite peace, pensions protected by the EU, jobs, standards, freedom of movement and human rights yadda yadda..... will more than likely outweigh daft sky fairies and loyalties to a State which is about to **** them over. 

[Cruyff Turn]

27 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Colonialism??? Do you even know what the word means? 

Yes, here is the definition -

 

Colonialism, is the practice by which a powerful country directly controls less powerful countries and uses their resources to increase its own power and wealth.

 

The cap fits perfectly. ?

 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

They are voting for their MP or Stormont Representative for their area? 

 

Believe it or not, not all Protestants in N.Ireland are hardcore Unionists and not all Catholics are hardcore Nationalists and some just don’t give a shit about any of it. There are enough on both sides to make it happen and most folk clearly want to be EU Citizens. 

 

I don’t assume that at all. The majority want peace and that was reflected in the GFA. The benefits of being in the EU and the benefits of indefinite peace, pensions protected by the EU, jobs, standards, freedom of movement and human rights yadda yadda..... will more than likely outweigh daft sky fairies and loyalties to a State which is about to **** them over. 

How are pensions protected by the EU?

The Good Friday Agreement says nothing about the Irish border but in what is its key provision commits the UK government to accepting and implementing a referendum vote by the people of Northern Ireland to unite with the Republic of Ireland if and when they choose to do so.

The UK has also given Scotland a free vote on whether it wants to.be independent or part of the UK. To suggest that Scotland is a victim of English colonialism when Scots played a disproportionately large part in forming and running British ciolonialism is reinvention of history.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Yes, here is the definition -

 

Colonialism, is the practice by which a powerful country directly controls less powerful countries and uses their resources to increase its own power and wealth.

 

The cap fits perfectly. ?

 

A poor country chose  to unite with a richer country and enjoyed otherwise umimagined prosperity and has voluntarily chosen to remain united. That isn't colonialism.

[frankblack]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

A poor country chose  to unite with a richer country and enjoyed otherwise umimagined prosperity and has voluntarily chosen to remain united. That isn't colonialism.

 

Yip.  Some of the nationalists need to check the history books and will find Scotland got itself into financial trouble and chose to sign the act of union to improve their situation.

[Norm]

Yes, the UK government have promised that EU citizens can stay. As far as I'm aware though, no bills etc have been passed putting this in to law. 

 

So forgive me for not taking what a bunch of lying *******s say at face value. They've promised lots of things before, on a whole host of different issues, and haven't delivered. I'm not convinced they'll deliver on this promise either. 

[Norm]

9 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't really think it was that different. You needed to find a job which probably required fluency in a foreign language which ruled out 95% or more of Brits. The numbers of Brits working in Europe is tiny compared to those Europeans living and working in the UK partly for that reason. Many Americans and others can and do.live and work in Europe including the UK despite not being EU citizens.

You needed to find a job before you went over, did you not? That's not the case now. 

[Don Dan]

8 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Youve used location settings in your smart phone to solve point of origin and WTO tariffs around the world? 

Im laughing alright. 

 

Maybe Treeza May could use the LRT Bus app as a starting point for negotiations? 

Technology and how it’s used in modern everyday life is obviously beyond you. I new that anyway. 

[The Mighty Thor]

I read this morning the NFU President is seeking an urgent meeting with ministers regarding lack of progress in defining what Brexit looks like.

Apparently the simple things like who will pick the crops they are about to sow when there's no migrant workers. 

Bet farmers for leave never thought that through.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Yip.  Some of the nationalists need to check the history books and will find Scotland got itself into financial trouble and chose to sign the act of union to improve their situation.

 

The aristocracy certainly sold out.  Can't remember it being put to a "people's vote" though...

[frankblack]

46 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

The aristocracy certainly sold out.  Can't remember it being put to a "people's vote" though...

 

That was the way things were 400 years ago.  Ordinary people and women had no say in the running of the country.

 

The point is that England didn't occupy us and force us into signing the act of union - the Scottish Parliament ran the country into the ground and signed to get themselves out of the hole they dug themselves into.

[Captain Sausage]

This saga is almost comedic. 

 

The whole Leave angle of ‘this isn’t what we voted for’ is utter pish. No one knew what we were voting for, all I remember being asked was if I thought we should remain in the EU or leave. Remain or leave. Nothing about a ‘hard’ Brexit or a ‘soft’ Brexit. Leaving and joining the EEC in a Norway-style deal would still fulfil the referendum result. We asked to leave the union and it’s up to the politicians to find the best fudge of this embarrassment that they can. 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That was the way things were 400 years ago.  Ordinary people and women had no say in the running of the country.

 

The point is that England didn't occupy us and force us into signing the act of union - the Scottish Parliament ran the country into the ground and signed to get themselves out of the hole they dug themselves into.

 

Well, one could argue that economic pressure was placed on the nation by England that aided and abetted the Darien disaster (not saying it solely caused it to fail, but helped it on its way) so ultimately Scotland was forced to go cap in hand.

 

But good to see you agree that it wasn't the decision of the people and that they were sold out by the aristocracy and bankrupt mercantile class.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Yip.  Some of the nationalists need to check the history books and will find Scotland got itself into financial trouble and chose to sign the act of union to improve their situation.

Was it a close vote.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Well, one could argue that economic pressure was placed on the nation by England that aided and abetted the Darien disaster (not saying it solely caused it to fail, but helped it on its way) so ultimately Scotland was forced to go cap in hand.

 

But good to see you agree that it wasn't the decision of the people and that they were sold out by the aristocracy and bankrupt mercantile class.

 

Fair enough.  I was sorely tempted to put in a dig at independence but I have a busy day and can't be bothered with the hassle.

[Cruyff Turn]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

How are pensions protected by the EU?

 

 

Article 8 of the EU Insolvency Directive requires member states to properly protect workers’ pensions. It also protects cross border pensions.

 

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

A poor country chose  to unite with a richer country and enjoyed otherwise umimagined prosperity and has voluntarily chosen to remain united. That isn't colonialism.

 

We chose to ‘remain’ in the UK after a series of lies and now unkept promises. That is very different from choosing to ‘join’ the UK, which the people of Scotland have never chosen to do and at that time rioted & rebelled against.

 

I gave you the clear definition of what Colonialism is and despite it being a term perhaps used to describe the practices of 300-400 years ago it quite clearly fits what Scotland is to England within the Union. 

 

Under that definition given, does England have direct control over Scotland? I think you will find it does.

 

Has England used Scotland’s resources to make itself more powerful and wealthier? I think you will find it has and still does. 

[AlphonseCapone]

14 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

At least reading his twitter account or rather surely his facebook account you don't have to suffer his ridiculous pretentious affected speaking style and absurd haircut.

 

Hairstyles, the last acceptable discrimination. 

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Hairstyles, the last acceptable discrimination. 

 

[Boris]

3 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

This saga is almost comedic. 

 

The whole Leave angle of ‘this isn’t what we voted for’ is utter pish. No one knew what we were voting for, all I remember being asked was if I thought we should remain in the EU or leave. Remain or leave. Nothing about a ‘hard’ Brexit or a ‘soft’ Brexit. Leaving and joining the EEC in a Norway-style deal would still fulfil the referendum result. We asked to leave the union and it’s up to the politicians to find the best fudge of this embarrassment that they can. 

 

I agree with you 100% and have said more or less what you have before.  Obviously we are wrong though...

[Captain Sausage]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

I agree with you 100% and have said more or less what you have before.  Obviously we are wrong though...

 

Frustrating, eh?

 

The lies, upon lies, upon lies spouted by the Leave campaign which have been established as utter bullshit - that's what people voted for. Since we won't be getting all that extra NHS cash, does that mean that we're not getting what we voted for? Therefore, the vote was on false pretence and should be re-run.

 

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people wouldn't back a second referendum. We now know far more about the likely outcome of Brexit. A vote now, with extremely strict rules around what the two sides could present (i.e. no blatant fabrications) is in the best interest of the country.

 

Failing that, surely the incumbent government has a duty to deliver the best possible deal. If we agreed to be outside the union, and that MUST be adhered to, it's plain and simple to see that an EEC type deal is the best alternative (aka a slightly shitter version of what we have now). The no-deal or chequers style Brexit is a calamity which every economist worth their salt is stating will cause damage to the economy.