Frozen condensate pipe / heating stopped working...

[jambo_]

Boiler wasn't working this morning error code displayed on screen and making strange gargling noises.

 

Turns out the external Condensate Pipe was frozen... used some warm water to defrost and drilled a small hole in the elbow of the pipe then taped some spare bits of polystyrene around it to hopefully stop happening again.

 

The condensate pipe carries condensation from the boiler to an outside drain. When temperatures plummet this moisture can freeze and block the pipe, causing the condensate to back up and the boiler to shut down. The signs that your pipe is frozen are either a fault code or warning light on the boiler’s display or a gurgling noise coming from the boiler or pipe.

To minimise the chances of this happening, it’s a simple job to buy foam lagging material from hardware or DIY stores and fit it around the pipe. Even if you’re not the DIY type, you’ll be glad you made the effort when it’s icy cold outside. Alternatively, get a handyman to do it for you; it’s a straightforward job.

 

If it’s too late and the pipe has already frozen, you can defrost it by pouring warm water over it until it thaws. DON’T try to speed up the process by using hot or boiling water as this could crack the pipes and then the situation is a whole lot worse. When it’s defrosted keep the pipe protected by wrapping an old towel around it until you can get it properly lagged.

 

Restarting the boiler should see it come back to life but if it doesn’t or you are in any doubt, contact a Gas Safe Registered engineer for help. Other than fitting the lagging or defrosting with warm water, never attempt to fix a gas boiler yourself.

[Francis Albert]

Happened a few times to us. Fitting foam insulating lagging designed for the purpose around the pipe was easy even for me and solved the problem. which recurred only when the lagging at the elbow  came loose and exposed a bit of the pipe - again easily repaired with tape.

[the stone rose]

If Lagging the pipe then use a Waterproof material, such as Armaflex. Standard foam lagging soaks in the water then freezes rendering it fairly useless.

Best to try and have the Condensate pipe run internally to an internal drain if possible.

Also if defrosting, a good method is to wrap the condensate pipe with a towel and pour hot water onto it. better than just pouring hot water straight onto the pipe.

[Victorian]

This happened at the work this morning but the heating didn't go off.    Not that it made any difference because the heating is woefully inadequate.

[dalkeithjambo]

6 hours ago, jambo_ said:

Boiler wasn't working this morning error code displayed on screen and making strange gargling noises.

 

Turns out the external Condensate Pipe was frozen... used some warm water to defrost and drilled a small hole in the elbow of the pipe then taped some spare bits of polystyrene around it to hopefully stop happening again.

 

The condensate pipe carries condensation from the boiler to an outside drain. When temperatures plummet this moisture can freeze and block the pipe, causing the condensate to back up and the boiler to shut down. The signs that your pipe is frozen are either a fault code or warning light on the boiler’s display or a gurgling noise coming from the boiler or pipe.

To minimise the chances of this happening, it’s a simple job to buy foam lagging material from hardware or DIY stores and fit it around the pipe. Even if you’re not the DIY type, you’ll be glad you made the effort when it’s icy cold outside. Alternatively, get a handyman to do it for you; it’s a straightforward job.

 

If it’s too late and the pipe has already frozen, you can defrost it by pouring warm water over it until it thaws. DON’T try to speed up the process by using hot or boiling water as this could crack the pipes and then the situation is a whole lot worse. When it’s defrosted keep the pipe protected by wrapping an old towel around it until you can get it properly lagged.

 

Restarting the boiler should see it come back to life but if it doesn’t or you are in any doubt, contact a Gas Safe Registered engineer for help. Other than fitting the lagging or defrosting with warm water, never attempt to fix a gas boiler yourself.

Can your condensate drain be rerouted to an internal drain from a sink etc? 

[jambo_]

10 hours ago, dalkeithjambo said:

Can your condensate drain be rerouted to an internal drain from a sink etc? 

 

It couldn't be done easily i don't think. Also i have been in the house for 7 years and this is the first tie we have had this issue so hopefully the hole i put in the pipe and the lagging will be sufficient. if it happens again i may consider rerouting the pipe.

[Darkwhisky7]

You can get a condensate pump, which pumps the condensate into a drain. The advantages are it’s a flexible clear tube with about 5 or 6 metres in length, is smaller diameter, can be run under floors and doesn’t have to run down the way in it’s entire length, it can then be joined into a drain nearby. the pump kicks in every now and then when the sump fills to a certain level, it’s not noisy and normally only runs for seconds every time it pumps the condensate away. it might be an alternative to running it outside. 

[KevinKyle10]

On 11/12/2017 at 21:13, dalkeithjambo said:

Can your condensate drain be rerouted to an internal drain from a sink etc? 

If you do this, make sure it runs downwards all the way to the drain, no right angles. 

Caused us months of bother!

 

6 hours ago, Darkwhisky7 said:

You can get a condensate pump, which pumps the condensate into a drain. The advantages are it’s a flexible clear tube with about 5 or 6 metres in length, is smaller diameter, can be run under floors and doesn’t have to run down the way in it’s entire length, it can then be joined into a drain nearby. the pump kicks in every now and then when the sump fills to a certain level, it’s not noisy and normally only runs for seconds every time it pumps the condensate away. it might be an alternative to running it outside. 

6 hours ago, Darkwhisky7 said:

You can get a condensate pump, which pumps the condensate into a drain. The advantages are it’s a flexible clear tube with about 5 or 6 metres in length, is smaller diameter, can be run under floors and doesn’t have to run down the way in it’s entire length, it can then be joined into a drain nearby. the pump kicks in every now and then when the sump fills to a certain level, it’s not noisy and normally only runs for seconds every time it pumps the condensate away. it might be an alternative to running it outside. 

Where do you fit the pump? At the boiler or in the condensate piping? 

[graygo]

On 12/11/2017 at 21:13, dalkeithjambo said:

Can your condensate drain be rerouted to an internal drain from a sink etc? 

 

Ours is routed to the bathroom sink.

 

ETA, it is the type that Darkwhisky7 describes above.

[Darkwhisky7]

Usually under the boiler, it can be fixed to the wall or sits on the floor. You run the 21mm plastic pipe down from the boiler as normal and it goes into the pump, you wire the pump into the boiler, then run the clear tubing to wherever the nearest drain pipe is and tee into the drain pipe. As I say the main advantage is because it’s pumped it doesn’t have to fall in its run like a pipe does to let the condensate away. the Sauermann ones are quite good. I’m sure you can get extra tubing and a connector if you need any more length. 

[RobboM]

I've come across this a few times with my Mothr in Law's system and it's a pain. When doing up my mum's house I made sure the condensate drained internally. However, on more than one occassion and several times over the past cold snap the regulator controlling the gas into the house frommthe meter has frozen so the boiler shuts down because the gas pressure is down.

Anyone else keep getting a frozen meter? Any solutions? I've lagged it, wrapped wooly hats around it, wrapped a hot water bottle around it to defrost it. Our gas meter is on the same wall about 20 meters along and has never frozen.

Any (helpful) thoughts appreciated

[Jamhammer]

Funny enough this happened to ours the other day. Think there might be an issue with the pump or some sort of balloon effort that is inside the boiler as the valve goes down to near zero when switched off and we get water from the overflow when it's switched on again. Had an engineer out the other day when it stopped working and he said it was the condensate thing. Put some air into the boiler thingy too. Still doing exactly the same thing though. I had Homecare with Scottish Gas but cancelled it a couple of weeks ago as they'd put it up by loads. Was gonna go with Scottish Power but have heard they're keek

[The Old Tolbooth]

12 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

Funny enough this happened to ours the other day. Think there might be an issue with the pump or some sort of balloon effort that is inside the boiler as the valve goes down to near zero when switched off and we get water from the overflow when it's switched on again. Had an engineer out the other day when it stopped working and he said it was the condensate thing. Put some air into the boiler thingy too. Still doing exactly the same thing though. I had Homecare with Scottish Gas but cancelled it a couple of weeks ago as they'd put it up by loads. Was gonna go with Scottish Power but have heard they're keek

 

Loving your descriptions  

 

The balloon effort is the expansion vessel, and from the sounds of it, yours is goosed. If your boiler is a condensing boiler which you've alluded to above, then you should be able to locate a spare part for it somewhere (either from the manufacturers, or on Ebay or something), and get a local heating engineer to fit a new one for buttons, if you can't get the part for it then you have the option of fitting an external expansion vessel, however you'll be left with a big red balloon effort somewhere outside of your boiler (normally tucked away in the bottom of a cupboard out of the way under the boiler as it's an eyesore)

 

A condensate pipe that runs outside should be double piped, a 22mm pipe inside a 28mm pipe is normal, or a 28mm pipe inside a 35mm pipe (abnormal, but seen it done), and then sealed to create a vacuum, it's then effective up to around -20 degrees because of the vacuum effect, although we've never had weather as severe as that to test it for years so I was always a bit dubious of that claim to be honest, but as stated above, it's always best to keep the condensate pipe internal wherever possible. 

[Jamhammer]

1 hour ago, johnmitchell said:

 

Loving your descriptions  

 

The balloon effort is the expansion vessel, and from the sounds of it, yours is goosed. If your boiler is a condensing boiler which you've alluded to above, then you should be able to locate a spare part for it somewhere (either from the manufacturers, or on Ebay or something), and get a local heating engineer to fit a new one for buttons, if you can't get the part for it then you have the option of fitting an external expansion vessel, however you'll be left with a big red balloon effort somewhere outside of your boiler (normally tucked away in the bottom of a cupboard out of the way under the boiler as it's an eyesore)

 

A condensate pipe that runs outside should be double piped, a 22mm pipe inside a 28mm pipe is normal, or a 28mm pipe inside a 35mm pipe (abnormal, but seen it done), and then sealed to create a vacuum, it's then effective up to around -20 degrees because of the vacuum effect, although we've never had weather as severe as that to test it for years so I was always a bit dubious of that claim to be honest, but as stated above, it's always best to keep the condensate pipe internal wherever possible. 

Haha. Cheers John. My Mrs says the only handy thing about me is that I live in the same house as her. Aye we had one of those expansion thingies with our old boiler. There is a wee tap thing under this one that mover the gauge to where it should be (Between 1 bar and 2) and it stays there but I dunno if that puts more water in the boiler or air in the expansion vessel. I think the boiler stopped last week because of the condensate thing. It's been okay since but the gauge goes down to 0 when central heating is off.

To be fair to me if you need a poem I'm your man :-)

 

[Darkwhisky7]

The condensate and pressure problems with the expansion vessel are 2 completely separate problems/faults. Usually we fit a boiler with a condensate into a drain in the house, therefore almost nil chance of freezing, if not we fit either a condensate pump or a condensate pipe into a soakaway outside just through the wall from the boiler to outside. It has to be 32mm drain pipe when it goes outside and lagged with waterproof lagging such as Armaflex as one of the previous posters has said. It consists of a plastic container buried in the ground surrounded by lime chips to neutralise the acidity of the condensate going into the earth. I dont think we have ever had a condensate freeze when fitted like this that results in the boiler going off. 

Pressure problems with the boiler are caused by a leak, either at a joint, a radiator, or seal somewhere on the system or boiler. A leaking pressure relief valve will also cause the pressure to drop, usually by water running down the wall outside when the pressure shoots up to 3bar or above. The boiler pressure then needs topped up, the valve leaks again and repeat endlessly. The expansion vessel is either burst internally and not allowing the system water to expand normally (water heated in a sealed system will expand) or it needs pumped up with a foot pump to re-instate the charge in the vessel. Usually an engineer will fix this quite easily. The way to tell is top your boiler up to 1.5 bar on the gauge, switch the heating on, normally within 5-10 minutes the pressure will rise quite quickly to 3 bar or above. This causes the pressure relief valve to discharge water outside down your wall where the pipe terminates. Recharging with a foot pump or replacing the vessel fixes this problem.

Hope this helps.