How big a mess is it?

[jake]

52 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said:

As I said: you do not think it is that bad at all as we should only be a couple of places higher in the league.

 

Unfortunately, I do not think this run of home games is going to produce the WWWWW stats that many predicted, thus we will be more than a couple of places short of "where we should be". This is why many people are worried about the state of the team. 

 

Regarding cups, you seem to view St Johnstone away and Hibs at home as tremendously tricky draws. I don't share that view. As a club we seem to dismiss the cups and see them as a distraction from playing the giants of Ross Co, Killie etc in the league. We cannot win the league, getting in to the EL group stages is becoming increasingly difficult, we get absolutely hammered by Celtic in every game (and accept it as the norm) and so the only real chance of success/excitement for the fans is doing well in the cups. As a club, and as a support, we need to get our apetite for this back. 

Bowman.

Shut the fek.......ach never mind.

[Dunks]

Champions League within 5 years

 

[smiler]

4 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

F U B A R

I saw the Prodigy in that club back in the day, as it goes.

[smiler]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

Bowman.

Shut the fek.......ach never mind.

He'll be okay, he's just going through another negative spell.

[Bowmans_Boot]

6 minutes ago, smiler said:

He'll be okay, he's just going through another negative spell.

I am negative, no question.

 

With very good reason: I am sick of paying money and watching shite on the park. 

 

If we make some decent signings in January, improve and beat Hibs in the cup then I will be the most positive poster on here!! Other than new stand finance threads, that is. 

[smiler]

1 minute ago, Bowmans_Boot said:

 

If we make some decent signings in January, improve and beat Hibs in the cup 

That's why I'm positive mate, because these will be happening.

[Bowmans_Boot]

7 minutes ago, smiler said:

That's why I'm positive mate, because these will be happening.

I would settle for just the last one at present!!!! 

[dc-jambo]

Yes, I too want to express my gratitude to the OP for giving me an outlet.

 

Prior to his thoughtful initiative, I only had been allowed 3 hours in the pub on Saturday to explore why we are shite. Plus another 4 hours on the golf on Sunday.

 

thanks once again

[Bazzas right boot]

It's a mess that even the conservative party would be proud off.

 

 

[RS86]

1 hour ago, dc-jambo said:

Yes, I too want to express my gratitude to the OP for giving me an outlet.

 

Prior to his thoughtful initiative, I only had been allowed 3 hours in the pub on Saturday to explore why we are shite. Plus another 4 hours on the golf on Sunday.

 

thanks once again

 

Glad to be of service. I don't go to the pub so I wasn't afforded that luxury

[Seymour M Hersh]

As side playing with zero confidence, nervous and scared to take responsibility. With a squad that's as good or bad as every other Premiereship squad apart from Celtic, possibly Aberdeen and the hun. Getting some wins in a row would help (ugly or otherwise) the confidence and with a bit of quality brought in come January we could quite easily finish 4th this season. 

[Clerry Jambo]

CL: "THE WORST IS OVER", lets hope so Craig!!

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-there-will-be-no-january-overhaul-at-hearts-1-4621774

[H2]

16 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

How big a mess is it?...a difficult question. If we consider the most recent 25 years (roughly a generation) then we are 6 points off our average position of 5th. I have of course excluded the 12/13 to 14/15 seasons when you could argue that we really were in a mess!!!

 

Infrastructure = best we have had in my lifetime.

Financial = most secure we have been in my lifetime.

On Field = 6 points off our average position.

 

Yes, the football is pants at the moment but we are not light years away from anyone, we are not putting our heads in the sand and we are not facing years in the wilderness.

 

So how big a mess is it?.....6 points, or in other words not that big a mess at all.

A good summary of the situation. I don't think we are too far away. We have a really good core of players, a few key positions lacking. Regretfully we had a period with a manager who was not up to scratch, a gamle which failed. We now all have to get behind the club and help build it back up. SHould we be able to get a few player in, in January we'll make top 6, and prepare for next season.  Paris St.German were not built in a day .

[Debut 4]

14 minutes ago, Clerry Jambo said:

CL: "THE WORST IS OVER", lets hope so Craig!!

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-there-will-be-no-january-overhaul-at-hearts-1-4621774

I agree an overhaul won’t help our situation.

 

Slow progress is what we’re reluctantly going to have to accept but I think it’s the best way.

 

This is what should’ve happened last year though. Not ripping up a harmonious, together and progressing squad. Small steps and adding players where we really needed to.

 

As has been said plenty times we’ve been set back a year but two seasons have been fecked up because of IC.

[GloriousHeartz]

We're a team in transition spending millions on infrastructure that is going to secure our future. We have a manager that  has the club running through his blood and it is clear to see that the team need strengthening.  What we need here is perspective. Let's embrace the situation and turn it into a positive.  This season isn't over and under all this stress we are sitting pretty.  Currently I can see the team slowly improving and I think we'll win on Saturday against Ross County 3-0. I really do think we are going to be surprised we're we end up this season.

[The Treasurer]

18 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

To say anything other than we are in deep shit is to bury one's head in the sand.

 

 

Wrong.

A few years ago when we nearly folded was when we were in deep shit.

Now we are looking better than ever off the park. The Academy is looking to be back on track and starting to produce a few promising youngsters.

On the park we clearly need to address a few obvious problems but we are aware of them and, hopefully taking steps to rectify them.

If you think that's burying my head in the sand that's up to you.

[GloriousHeartz]

I agree. Absolute ridiculous comment to make. That's right we're in deep, hahahahah. We're in transition and you will struggle to find any club in the world that doesn't have highs and lows. See comments like that seem to come from the one particular type of supporter and it tends to be the uneducated type. Put your razzle mag down and pick up a book.

[RudiHMFC]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

As side playing with zero confidence, nervous and scared to take responsibility. With a squad that's as good or bad as every other Premiereship squad apart from Celtic, possibly Aberdeen and the hun. Getting some wins in a row would help (ugly or otherwise) the confidence and with a bit of quality brought in come January we could quite easily finish 4th this season. 

4th, quite easily? You are absolutely mental.

[TexasAndy]

It's 3 or 4 players away from sorting.  LB, CM and Wide.  Take McGinn and McGeough out of that Hibs team and they wouldn't be any better than us.  At any level not have the right players in key areas makes all the difference.  Look how Man U have struggled recently without Pogba.  The team just doesn't gel the same without him.  In the same way McGinn makes Hibs tick and provides good supply to forwards.  Paul Hartley or Colin Cameron \ Rudi Skacel \ Gary Naismith \ Neil McCann.  This is the type we need.  Good LB, 2 good CM and a good winger.  There's more than enough in rest of squad to compliment these and be lifted by these types of players.  

[Buffalo Bill]

As has been discussed, the club is doing great work off the field to get things right for the future but the current team falls short of what we should be expecting from a Hearts side.

 

The goalie seems decent enough, as is Souttar, Berra, Laff and Isma plus a few promising youngsters. Walker and Djoum are good players when focused on Hearts but neither has been for a while now and both seems certain to leave.

 

The likes of Callaghan, M Smith, Prince, Randall, Stockton don't do an awful lot for me, unfortunately. Ash Smith-Brown will get punted at the first opportunity. Milinkovic remains something of an enigma; good pedigree, touch and pace but his decision making seems shot to shit (maybe lacking in confidence or something?). 

 

Levein now has to get it right in the transfer market. The last two years have been, a few exceptions aside...dreadful.  

 

As a club, we will get there eventually, but there is a fair bit lot of work to be done on the playing front.

 

 

 

 

[Bainy]

A whole new midfield is desperately required. Left back also. The annoying thing is I think Isma and Lafferty would bang in the goals if they were getting service from decent wide players and a good attacking midfielder in the mould of Cameron or Harley. 

 

I actually watched the 4-0 demolishing of our neighbours the other night on youtube and the opening goal is everything we are missing at the minute. Harley picks the ball up deep inside his own half, pings it wide and he's off bursting a gut to get forward to eventually tapping in the cross about 6 yards out.  Nobody in our midfield has that in them and that is something that is a huge problem. Our strikers look so isolated up front and it must be so frustrating for them.

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 hours ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

It's a mess that even the conservative party would be proud off.

 

 

Perhaps we could appoint Nicola Sturgeon and she could just blame the Tooooaaaaaries for all our woes. Bad signings??  It's Tooaarryyy cuts to blame. Bad referring decisions.  "Toaarryyy austerity " (in banal central belt tone, of course). Dundee's failed bit for city of culture? Oh ma sides...anyway that of course is down to The Tooaries. 

[Nookie Bear]

20 hours ago, sairyinthat said:

And the biggest group of people needed to pull together are the fans,

 

Our fault, aye?

 

We're happy just to write seasons off - that's a few hundred every year just chucked away because of poor planning and management - and the finger gets pointed at us first?

[FarmerTweedy]

21 hours ago, Dr Ian Malcolm said:

We're seventh, two points off the top six having played one actual home game all season. Some common sense additions and a bit of confidence returning should see things improve.

 

Just as the initial upturn in results didn't mean we were great, we're not now plummeting towards a relegation battle with no hope of ever winning again. Dramatic overreactions either way is what happens on here though.

 

Correct!

[Thomaso]

18 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

I am thinking we will only be in a big mess if we get relegated this season.  

If we don't, we can build again, change things for the better on the playing side and then with good financial nous and an excellent stadium we move forwards.

No?

 

 

If we get relegated it will be a disaster, not a mess!

 

31/2 years into Levein's 5 year grand plan and you seem to be accepting a bottom 6 finish, and yet ANOTHER squad re-build for next season - IMO that is a mess!

[Bridge of Djoum]

46 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Our fault, aye?

 

We're happy just to write seasons off - that's a few hundred every year just chucked away because of poor planning and management - and the finger gets pointed at us first?

He didn't say it was our fault. 

 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

24 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

If we get relegated it will be a disaster, not a mess!

 

31/2 years into Levein's 5 year grand plan and you seem to be accepting a bottom 6 finish, and yet ANOTHER squad re-build for next season - IMO that is a mess!

Yes, we are ALL aware of your opinion. It's been repeated from thread to thread, day to day, week to week, ad infinitum. You are never done giving us your opinion. 

Opinions are good, debatable. When you say the same thing over and over it becomes less of an opinion and more of a mantra. In short, it's ******* annoying and unnecessary. There is no debating or reasoning with you. None.

 

Of course, having this opinion will lead to some calling me and my like-minded a "bully''. Which is ******* hilarious as you and a select few of your disciples and your constant attacks on the manager is just ''opinion'', not bullying.

 

We hear you, we've heard you, I'm sure we will continue to be subjected to your ''opinion''. You'll become relevant again when you have something else to say.

 

 

There is a bigger picture to be seen, and I think I can say no one is happy with a ''bottom 6'' finish. But we can accept there is more going on and that we have the confidence and faith in the management of the club to get it right. Many call this supporting your club through thick and thin. I'm not sure what your brand of ''support'' is called. 

[Thomaso]

9 minutes ago, No Wing Mirrors on Trains. said:

Yes, we are ALL aware of your opinion. It's been repeated from thread to thread, day to day, week to week, ad infinitum. You are never done giving us your opinion. 

Opinions are good, debatable. When you say the same thing over and over it becomes less of an opinion and more of a mantra. In short, it's ******* annoying and unnecessary. There is no debating or reasoning with you. None.

 

Of course, having this opinion will lead to some calling me and my like-minded a "bully''. Which is ******* hilarious as you and a select few of your disciples and your constant attacks on the manager is just ''opinion'', not bullying.

 

We hear you, we've heard you, I'm sure we will continue to be subjected to your ''opinion''. You'll become relevant again when you have something else to say.

 

 

There is a bigger picture to be seen, and I think I can say no one is happy with a ''bottom 6'' finish. But we can accept there is more going on and that we have the confidence and faith in the management of the club to get it right. Many call this supporting your club through thick and thin. I'm not sure what your brand of ''support'' is called. 

 

What a rant!!!  Bullying did you say - your post is frankly just personal abuse!!

 

I think you'll find Levein's supporters on here repeat their same opinions which is fine by me - if you don't want to be subjected to my opinions just pop me on "ignore" there's a good lad.

 

I did not say anybody was "happy" with a bottom 6 finish - I said there seems to be "acceptance" from some of a bottom 6 finish, and yet another squad re-build for next season - try reading my posts before going off on one, thanks. 

 

I support HMFC passionately as I have done for the past 40 odd years - ST holder, shareholder, FoH contributor, and heavily involved in the construction of the new stand  at a executive level that I am not going to go into here!!  Not withstanding all that, I have no confidence that the football strategy Levein has put in place is right for the Club, nor do I rate him as a football Manager.

 

That is MY opinion, which going by talk in the stadium and on here, many share - so please don't lecture me about my "brand" of support thanks.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, RudiHMFC said:

4th, quite easily? You are absolutely mental.

 

Not at all it's you that's absolutely mental and not very bright either.

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

What a rant!!!  Bullying did you say - your post is frankly just personal abuse!!

 

I think you'll find Levein's supporters on here repeat their same opinions which is fine by me - if you don't want to be subjected to my opinions just pop me on "ignore" there's a good lad.

 

I did not say anybody was "happy" with a bottom 6 finish - I said there seems to be "acceptance" from some of a bottom 6 finish, and yet another squad re-build for next season - try reading my posts before going off on one, thanks. 

 

I support HMFC passionately as I have done for the past 40 odd years - ST holder, shareholder, FoH contributor, and heavily involved in the construction of the new stand  at a executive level that I am not going to go into here!!  Not withstanding all that, I have no confidence that the football strategy Levein has put in place is right for the Club, nor do I rate him as a football Manager.

 

That is MY opinion, which going by talk in the stadium and on here, many share - so please don't lecture me about my "brand" of support thanks.

Jeez you are ridiculous.

 

Not a shred of abuse in my post. You are showing real signs of Celtic-like victimization. Seek help.

[Thomaso]

6 minutes ago, No Wing Mirrors on Trains. said:

Jeez you are ridiculous.

 

Not a shred of abuse in my post. You are showing real signs of Celtic-like victimization. Seek help.

 

Feeling Victimised from the likes of you. Please. 

 

By the way where do you sit in the stadium - new stand?  Nice view?

[Bridge of Djoum]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

 

Feeling Victimised from the likes of you. Please. 

 

By the way where do you sit in the stadium - new stand?  Nice view?

Are you genuinely trying to use the fact I live abroad to have a pop? Really?

 

Many of us living abroad buy merchandise, have contributed to FOH, and continue to do so.Had season tickets in the past. Indeed I think I'm right in saying that more than one admin lives abroad. You are attempting to claim you are more of a fan/your opinion counts for more because you attend games? ARE YOU ******* MENTAL?

 

What a pathetically juvenile argument.  

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, No Wing Mirrors on Trains. said:

Are you genuinely trying to use the fact I live abroad to have a pop? Really?

 

Many of us living abroad buy merchandise, have contributed to FOH, and continue to do so.Had season tickets in the past. Indeed I think I'm right in saying that more than one admin lives abroad. You are attempting to claim you are more of a fan/your opinion counts for more because you attend games? ARE YOU ******* MENTAL?

 

What a pathetically juvenile argument.  

 

More personal abuse - dear, dear. 

 

Who says I was having a "pop".  I thought I was debating with a fellow Hearts fan who watched all our games first hand, so they could form a valid opinion on how the Manager and team are actually performing on the pitch.  It would seem not - pity.

 

Anyway keep buying the merchandise, oh and keep your big dollars flowing into FoH. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

Just now, Thomaso said:

 

More personal abuse - dear, dear. 

 

Who says I was having a "pop".  I thought I was debating with a fellow Hearts fan who watched all our games first hand, so they could form a valid opinion on how the Manager and team are actually performing on the pitch.  It would seem not - pity.

 

Anyway keep buying the merchandise, oh and keep your big dollars flowing into FoH. 

Point me towards the ''abuse'' you claim in my posts.

 

 

[Baxfee]

Just looked at next 4 games and feel that we should be aiming for 9 points minimum. May sound very optimistic but we’re at home and should be able to grind some results out. If we were able to achieve this would help team spirit - this often over compensates for talent ( something we are lacking). Here’s hoping ? 

[Notts1874]

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

More personal abuse - dear, dear. 

 

Who says I was having a "pop".  I thought I was debating with a fellow Hearts fan who watched all our games first hand, so they could form a valid opinion on how the Manager and team are actually performing on the pitch.  It would seem not - pity.

 

Anyway keep buying the merchandise, oh and keep your big dollars flowing into FoH. 

You're making a fool of yourself now.

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, No Wing Mirrors on Trains. said:

Point me towards the ''abuse'' you claim in my posts.

 

 

 

Calling someone "mental" and "pathetically juvenile" isn't very nice now is it  - you've been too long in NY - they have no manners there you know.....

[RS86]

57 minutes ago, No Wing Mirrors on Trains. said:

There is a bigger picture to be seen, and I think I can say no one is happy with a ''bottom 6'' finish. But we can accept there is more going on and that we have the confidence and faith in the management of the club to get it right. Many call this supporting your club through thick and thin.

 

This is quite a good summary of my feelings about the club at the moment tbh. I am not happy we are playing crap, but I understand it and accept it and I have faith we will rectify it in time.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

You're making a fool of yourself now.

 

Yup you would say that

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

 

Yup you would say that

Just giving you a wee bit friendly advice. Spending so long on the same subject can't be good for your health.

 

You do realise that shouting on a football forum won't change a thing don't you!

[Notts1874]

4 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Calling someone "mental" and "pathetically juvenile" isn't very nice now is it  - you've been too long in NY - they have no manners there you know.....

He never called you mental though did he?

 

Read the post again. Anyway I'm out as you and your ilk are beyond reason.

[Thomaso]

2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

He never called you mental though did he?

 

Read the post again. Anyway I'm out as you and your ilk are beyond reason.

 

It was a bit of banter hence the .  Anyway why is someone of your "ilk" getting involved?

[Thomaso]

6 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Just giving you a wee bit friendly advice. Spending so long on the same subject can't be good for your health.

 

You do realise that shouting on a football forum won't change a thing don't you!

 

Thanks for the advice however check the posts - the only guy SHOUTING was my pal from Brooklyn.

[Bowmans_Boot]

8 minutes ago, RS86 said:

 

This is quite a good summary of my feelings about the club at the moment tbh. I am not happy we are playing crap, but I understand it and accept it and I have faith we will rectify it in time.

I am not having a dig here, but for how long are you willing to give it until we are challenging at the top (& for cups) again? 

 

Would bottom 6 and an exit to Hibs in the SC be ok this season because of the bigger picture?

 

Would it be ok to be bottom 6 until the new stand is paid off?

 

I am honestly not having a dig, I am just interested in how long those who see the bigger picture are willing to be patient. 

[Coco]

5 hours ago, Clerry Jambo said:

CL: "THE WORST IS OVER", lets hope so Craig!!

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-there-will-be-no-january-overhaul-at-hearts-1-4621774

The task Levein should have been set is to win a Cup or at the very least get to finals.

[Notts1874]

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Thanks for the advice however check the posts - the only guy SHOUTING was my pal from Brooklyn.

Why does it matter where he lives? You are suddenly quoting this in every post.

 

I suggest its because you are trying to infer that it makes him less than a Hearts fan than you without saying it directly.

 

Anyway I won't be drawn into anymore discussion with you because you are beyond reason and really need to spend some more time away from this forum.

[RS86]

2 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said:

I am not having a dig here, but for how long are you willing to give it until we are challenging at the top (& for cups) again? 

 

Would bottom 6 and an exit to Hibs in the SC be ok this season because of the bigger picture?

 

Would it be ok to be bottom 6 until the new stand is paid off?

 

I am honestly not having a dig, I am just interested in how long those who see the bigger picture are willing to be patient. 

 

This will get mixed responses from everyone no doubt. For me I'd say bottom 6 this year wouldn't be the end of the world, yes I would be embarrassed as a Hearts fan that we didn't make top 6 (which I think we will btw) but I would expect next season to be far better.

 

Into the 2019 season I'd at least expect to see us pushing for 2nd or putting together a cup run. To be clear not saying that by then we need to achieve a cup win or 2nd in the league btw, just having a realistic chance of it and looking like we are capable. So I guess 2 years with noticeable progression in that time?

 

How about you, what is an acceptable timescale in your eyes?

[RS86]

10 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said:

Would bottom 6 and an exit to Hibs in the SC be ok this season because of the bigger picture?

 

Also don't make me cry... 1 of these fine, but both of these

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Why does it matter where he lives? You are suddenly quoting this in every post.

 

I mentioned him because it was a valid response to your SHOUTING comment.

 

If you read his first post, which was a bit of a confrontational rant against me and my opinion of our current management, I think I was entitled to question how he could form a valid opinion of how our manager and team were performing on the pitch if he did not actually go to games.

[Bowmans_Boot]

9 minutes ago, RS86 said:

 

This will get mixed responses from everyone no doubt. For me I'd say bottom 6 this year wouldn't be the end of the world, yes I would be embarrassed as a Hearts fan that we didn't make top 6 (which I think we will btw) but I would expect next season to be far better.

 

Into the 2019 season I'd at least expect to see us pushing for 2nd or putting together a cup run. To be clear not saying that by then we need to achieve a cup win or 2nd in the league btw, just having a realistic chance of it and looking like we are capable. So I guess 2 years with noticeable progression in that time?

 

How about you, what is an acceptable timescale in your eyes?

For me, acceptable would be top 6 and a cup run this season, top 4 and decent cup runs next season and then building steadily from there.

 

I believe we are only 2 or 3 good signings away from having a team (not a squad, though) capable of challenging the for 2nd. I dont think the standard is that high in Scotland that 5 or 6 new players are needed: the right 2 or 3 would make a world of difference.