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Genuine question : are Leveins days numbered?


gavinderbayne

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8 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

 

Craig Levein thought that managing a team was a younger mans job 3 years ago. He is a reluctant volunteer and his body language shows it.He is acting as a part time manager as far as taking the teams workouts  are concerned and  he would willingly leave the show to Daly and Macphee. Its a very strange situation and I cannot feel positive about it. To achieve a successful motivated squad needs a sense of togetherness and committed leadership.Lukewarm will just not do.

 

This is a good point (the committed and motivated bit) and is my biggest worry too. We saw how Neilson's confidence commanded respect and got a lot from players. Cathro on the other hand looked nervous and out of his depth and the team reflected that. If Levein is half hearted about the job that's the team we'll end up with.

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2 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

See this thing of ditching managers and players after a relatively short period. It’s the most stupid idea ever because it’s proven not to work. Sadly it seems to be common amongst those who want managers and players sacked or released every few months before they’ve had a chance to turn things around. 

 

Here’s an idea. How about the negative brigade back the guy in charge for a change whether you like him or not? Be a supporter for a bit. You never know, it might make a difference.

Callachan showed on Sunday that he is out of his depth 

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4 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I think the Cathro farce showed Levein wasn't dictating signings 

 

Based asked on what?

 

This transfer window will prove you wrong in fact our tactics since Levein has taken over have proved you wrong.

 

but don't let facts get in the way of your agenda

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2 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

No offence but that's bollocks. The signings weren't spectacular that summer but Robbie had the team miles ahead of St J and level pegging or above Rangers and Aberdeen. (So does that make him a great manager then? A different debate.)

 

Several signings - notably Johnson, Muirhead and Rossi - were doing well and coming on to regular good games. Walker, Djoum and CP were flying or at least playing well. Hamilton was shaky in goal but our defensive record was still solid, including Rherras who remains the best LB we signed Eckersley. Even someone like Nowak looked like a decent option at defensive mid. And we were on a 5 game unbeaten record, 6 if you include Daly taking on Neilson's team for one game. Even Sammon, after being banished to the bench, looked useful as a 10 minute impact sub.

 

The slide happened when Cathro joined and ripped everything up needlessly. Levein made that happen and it's his mess to clear up IMO. Seems like Budge agreed although if he did need to be persuaded to take the job that's a problem for me, but relatively easy to solve - Levein just needs to screw the nut and remember how to be a good football manager.

 

You are right about Robbie but you've taken it too far.  Nowak didn't play until Cathro arrived and Sammon never really looked useful at all.

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1 hour ago, Rents said:

 

Based asked on what?

 

This transfer window will prove you wrong in fact our tactics since Levein has taken over have proved you wrong.

 

but don't let facts get in the way of your agenda

 

Agenda? Wanting Levein to succeed and do well? 

 

I just couldn't see him signing Tziolis, Avlonitis, Hughes, Sowah, Martin and Struna. 

 

I will agree the football on the park is awful to watch. However he must be given January to shake things up squad wise. 

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Central Belt 1874
4 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

No offence but that's bollocks. The signings weren't spectacular that summer but Robbie had the team miles ahead of St J and level pegging or above Rangers and Aberdeen. (So does that make him a great manager then? A different debate.)

 

Several signings - notably Johnson, Muirhead and Rossi - were doing well and coming on to regular good games. Walker, Djoum and CP were flying or at least playing well. Hamilton was shaky in goal but our defensive record was still solid, including Rherras who remains the best LB we signed Eckersley. Even someone like Nowak looked like a decent option at defensive mid. And we were on a 5 game unbeaten record, 6 if you include Daly taking on Neilson's team for one game. Even Sammon, after being banished to the bench, looked useful as a 10 minute impact sub.

 

The slide happened when Cathro joined and ripped everything up needlessly. Levein made that happen and it's his mess to clear up IMO. Seems like Budge agreed although if he did need to be persuaded to take the job that's a problem for me, but relatively easy to solve - Levein just needs to screw the nut and remember how to be a good football manager.

 

Pure fantasy again from you regarding the Neilson era and you appear to have problems reading people’s post accurately.

 

Your middle paragraph is quite simply laughable, only two of these players are still at the club at this moment in time and one of them can’t get a game. 

 

If you think that Sammon and muirhead were an improvement on what we had previously, or that they were good enough to challenge for second at the end of the season or in the cups, then we are worlds apart.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

Newsflash: we’ve often toiled against clubs like those. And we’ve never regularly challenged at the top of the league. So if that’s your expectations then welcome to a lifetime of disapppintment. 

 

Those if us who are more realistic tale the good times when they come and back the club during the bad times.

 

We agree on the problem - a rubbish team

for 8 months - but not the solution. We heard similar with Robbie and things got worse after he left. Cathro was universally backed as a good appointment and failed dismally. 

 

So how can you be so certain that sacking levein after a few months is the answer?

 

you can’t so as I say how about changing your approach and backing the guy in chare for longer than a handful if games.

Listen to yourself you sound like you've given up. Get a grip man your living in a world of sad people with no hope of ever achieving anything. We need  winner who knows how to put together a winnng team. 

Do you socrates have a problem with Hearts having a manager that can organise at team, coach the players to play attractive winning football and sign good players instead of the poor signing we've had. If you'd like Hearts to all of the above you need to tell Ann that Levein & his lackies are not up to the job. Email her and tell her Mitch helped you change your mind. Tell her Mitch is never wrong.

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10 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Listen to yourself you sound like you've given up. Get a grip man your living in a world of sad people with no hope of ever achieving anything. We need  winner who knows how to put together a winnng team. 

Do you socrates have a problem with Hearts having a manager that can organise at team, coach the players to play attractive winning football and sign good players instead of the poor signing we've had. If you'd like Hearts to all of the above you need to tell Ann that Levein & his lackies are not up to the job. Email her and tell her Mitch helped you change your mind. Tell her Mitch is never wrong.

 

Yes and I also want a pet unicorn and to win the lottery.

 

Who is this manager anyhow? How much will a winning manager who plays attractive football cost and why would he manage Hearts? And how can you guarantee he'll be better? And how many managers have Hearts had in our history like that?

 

This is the same debate with Neilson and he was doing well! At least I have some sympathy with folk not happy with Levein this time but, seriously, change the record.

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2 hours ago, WageThief said:

 

You are right about Robbie but you've taken it too far.  Nowak didn't play until Cathro arrived and Sammon never really looked useful at all.

 

You're right and I now remember the folk who wanted Neilson out wanted him to play! Not heard much about him from them recently.

 

Sammon came on and looked useful to my eyes. Kept defenders busy late on against Rangers anyhow. Certainly he was no worse than Stockton.

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4 hours ago, Spencer said:

Callachan showed on Sunday that he is out of his depth 

 

He was dire but some folk don't write players off after a few games.

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1 minute ago, socrates82 said:

 

You're right and I now remember the folk who wanted Neilson out wanted him to play! Not heard much about him from them recently.

 

Sammon came on and looked useful to my eyes. Kept defenders busy late on against Rangers anyhow. Certainly he was no worse than Stockton.

 

A few of them are congregating under a 'Isma oot' banner now.

 

Too true that he isn't/wasn't any worse than Stockton.

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19 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Listen to yourself you sound like you've given up. Get a grip man your living in a world of sad people with no hope of ever achieving anything. We need  winner who knows how to put together a winnng team. 

Do you socrates have a problem with Hearts having a manager that can organise at team, coach the players to play attractive winning football and sign good players instead of the poor signing we've had. If you'd like Hearts to all of the above you need to tell Ann that Levein & his lackies are not up to the job. Email her and tell her Mitch helped you change your mind. Tell her Mitch is never wrong.

 

You're Ann Budge Mitch.......who do you appoint as manager? 

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3 hours ago, Rents said:

 

Based asked on what?

 

This transfer window will prove you wrong in fact our tactics since Levein has taken over have proved you wrong.

 

but don't let facts get in the way of your agenda

 

How we sign players and who does what has been outlined by Neilson, Cathro and Levein. It goes something like this:

 

1. Neilson/Cathro says what types of players he wants for what positions

2. Neilson/Cathro/Levein/scouts/agents/players/coaches/mates of the coaches (and Ann budges hairdresser for all we know) suggest players we might look at

3. Levein and Neilson/Cathro (and possibly coaches/McPhee) sit down and go through the list and give opinions

4. Neilson/Cathro says which players they want (you'd assume ranking them as first and second picks)

5. Levein, who controls the budget, starts the process of contacting agents/enquiring with clubs/making offers, etc

6. Neilson/Cathro and Levein talk frequently and adjust their targets according to who's available

7. Neilson/Cathro make the final decision on who signs. Levein has final say when it comes down to how much we can pay them.

8. If Neilson/Cathro doesn't like any of the players or we cannot sign their top choices, return to Step 2

9. Levein finalises the signings and does the contracts stuff

 

Obviously, I don't know how they exactly do it, so Steps 3-6 contain assumptions about the actual process. But anyhow, this is how it works at most clubs. Except at other clubs without a Levein/DoF the owner will have more input and the manager/head coach has more work to do. This is why the DoF model makes so much sense to me. First I'd rather the coaches focus on coaching and second owners generally know very little about football beyond what the average fan knows.

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Cory McNamara

He will work until, at least, next Christmas. He needs few windows to shake up the team.

You don't change horses before crossing the river.

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1 hour ago, socrates82 said:

 

Yes and I also want a pet unicorn and to win the lottery.

 

Who is this manager anyhow? How much will a winning manager who plays attractive football cost and why would he manage Hearts? And how can you guarantee he'll be better? And how many managers have Hearts had in our history like that?

 

This is the same debate with Neilson and he was doing well! At least I have some sympathy with folk not happy with Levein this time but, seriously, change the record.

You're good at the rhetoric but the facts are rarely in your grasp. You continue to paint a picture of "Robbie oot" amongst the fans when the reality is a bunch of no marks hired a plane - then Robbie left. read Leveins comments about Robbie's departure- not a doubt in my mind that he was not at all happy about that (CL, I mean).  The vast majority of the criticisms of Robbies tenure were shit signings and boring, boring football.  I'd say almost everyone wanted him to stay - he'd earned that much , but even Robbie had had enough. So here we are two years down the track with more shit signings - and more shit football.  

 

And with our finances we can't sign  decent players or get a decent manager ?  Please give it a rest. 

 

Maybe you could answer your own questions above. 

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4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You're good at the rhetoric but the facts are rarely in your grasp. You continue to paint a picture of "Robbie oot" amongst the fans when the reality is a bunch of no marks hired a plane - then Robbie left. read Leveins comments about Robbie's departure- not a doubt in my mind that he was not at all happy about that (CL, I mean).  The vast majority of the criticisms of Robbies tenure were shit signings and boring, boring football.  I'd say almost everyone wanted him to stay - he'd earned that much , but even Robbie had had enough. So here we are two years down the track with more shit signings - and more shit football.  

 

And with our finances we can't sign  decent players or get a decent manager ?  Please give it a rest. 

 

Maybe you could answer your own questions above. 

 

No I'm not the one wanting to change manager every season so I'm not thinking of our next manager. The Robbie thing was really weird. A surprising number of negative comments online about him and booing of subs, etc. The plane was just the most ridiculous part of all that. 

 

As for the football under Neilson, that's subjective isn't it? I've always thought going on about the quality of football to be a very Hibs thing tbh, said to disguise their relative lack of success. I've never in my puff been bored at a Hearts game. I love the whole experience and am happy with a win no matter how we played, and he delivered one of the highest win % of any Hearts manager.

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7 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

Yes and I also want a pet unicorn and to win the lottery.

 

Who is this manager anyhow? How much will a winning manager who plays attractive football cost and why would he manage Hearts? And how can you guarantee he'll be better? And how many managers have Hearts had in our history like that?

 

This is the same debate with Neilson and he was doing well! At least I have some sympathy with folk not happy with Levein this time but, seriously, change the record.

Change the whole system more like. Our fans deserve better for all the work and support they've done for their club. Our fans are being let down by incompetence. You think Levein is the answer well that opinion is deluded. Watchng this team is agony for our fans who turn up at games praying for a wee bit of entertainment which is a sad state of affairs.

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7 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

You're Ann Budge Mitch.......who do you appoint as manager? 

Let's look at who would apply for this fabulous job working for one of the top clubs in Scotland without the handcuffs. The handcuffs refering to the fact Levein dreamt up the idea of McPhee must be the new managers assistant, Daly must be the first team coach ect ect. What self respected manager would accept this. If we saw the quality of manager who'd want the Hearts job i'm sure we'd be very happy.

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1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

Let's look at who would apply for this fabulous job working for one of the top clubs in Scotland without the handcuffs. The handcuffs refering to the fact Levein dreamt up the idea of McPhee must be the new managers assistant, Daly must be the first team coach ect ect. What self respected manager would accept this. If we saw the quality of manager who'd want the Hearts job i'm sure we'd be very happy.

 

Who would you choose? 

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13 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

I dunno, until things get better or nothing gets better. Everyday has their own limits of patience. I take a long term view. Do you think a few months is enough for a manager to turn things around? If a boxer's getting a hammering in the first 2 rounds do you tell him he's shite or try to build his confidence and back him to turn it around?

If it was a new manager coming in (who wanted the job) and was trying to sort out, stabilise or "turn things around", the answer is no. However, this is not the case with CL! Firstly he didn't want the job and said as much many times, if he did he could have saved a few folk a lot of time during the 'interview' process! Secondly, As someone who oversees ALL footballing matters, CL is not trying to sort out the previous manger's mess, it's HIS mess. Therefore, CL has not had a few months, he has had much, much longer....sadly!

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7 hours ago, Cory McNamara said:

He will work until, at least, next Christmas. He needs few windows to shake up the team.

You don't change horses before crossing the river.

What if your horse can't swim?????

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If Levein cared about Hearts like he'd claim he does he'd **** off and allow us to be free of his stranglehold of the club. We're bigger than him and we all deserve better, even the ones who have been hypnotized by his 'vision' and don't know what's good for you. 

 

The longer he stays the more the rot sets in and more damage is done in the long term.

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This all comes down to finances. Sacking Levein and keeping the coaching staff he's brought in is pointless. It's one out all out.

 

Next problem is players, January's not a great window and too get quality it takes cash.

 

So its either one or the other not both.

 

We need to get to the summer and Ann needs to make a decision. Stick with what we have and find cash for players or clear the decks and start again. I'm pretty sure I know which one she'll choose.

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2 hours ago, RudiHMFC said:

If Levein cared about Hearts like he'd claim he does he'd **** off and allow us to be free of his stranglehold of the club. We're bigger than him and we all deserve better, even the ones who have been hypnotized by his 'vision' and don't know what's good for you. 

 

The longer he stays the more the rot sets in and more damage is done in the long term.

 

 

Remind me - what "vision" was that again??

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10 hours ago, Cory McNamara said:

He will work until, at least, next Christmas. He needs few windows to shake up the team.

You don't change horses whilst crossing the river.

 

STFY  :thumb:

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9 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

No I'm not the one wanting to change manager every season so I'm not thinking of our next manager. The Robbie thing was really weird. A surprising number of negative comments online about him and booing of subs, etc. The plane was just the most ridiculous part of all that. 

 

As for the football under Neilson, that's subjective isn't it? I've always thought going on about the quality of football to be a very Hibs thing tbh, said to disguise their relative lack of success. I've never in my puff been bored at a Hearts game. I love the whole experience and am happy with a win no matter how we played, and he delivered one of the highest win % of any Hearts manager.

 

I detested the way Robbie was treated by some supporters but, you've never been bored at a Hearts game ? 

C'mon, man, never hit the pub at half time as the alternative was counselling ?

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7 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

I detested the way Robbie was treated by some supporters but, you've never been bored at a Hearts game ? 

C'mon, man, never hit the pub at half time as the alternative was counselling ?

 

I can't recall ever being bored at a game either. There is usually something to focus on, even if all you're doing is wondering why both teams are dull !

 

The only time i have ever left early is because we are taking a hammering, or it's just utter crap.

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1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I can't recall ever being bored at a game either. There is usually something to focus on, even if all you're doing is wondering why both teams are dull !

 

The only time i have ever left early is because we are taking a hammering, or it's just utter crap.

 

Crap and bored usually fall into the same category for me,bud !

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4 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Who would you choose? 

How can you choose until you know who wants the job. I know you would get a far better manager than Levein. Look at the managers in Scotland like McInnes Wright Robinson Coyle Clarke ect.

Hearts are bigger than these managers clubs so it begs belief why we get Levein who never wanted the job.

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Just now, mitch41 said:

How can you choose until you know who wants the job. I know you would get a far better manager than Levein. Look at the managers in Scotland like McInnes Wright Robinson Coyle Clarke ect.

Hearts are bigger than these managers clubs so it begs belief why we get Levein who never wanted the job.

 

Just as I thought, constant criticism without a solution. 

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3 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

How can you choose until you know who wants the job. I know you would get a far better manager than Levein. Look at the managers in Scotland like McInnes Wright Robinson Coyle Clarke ect.

Hearts are bigger than these managers clubs so it begs belief why we get Levein who never wanted the job.

 

What have any of these managers actually achieved that makes them so much better than Levein?

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Yes Hearts have a manager who never wanted the job. After Levein's mistake, Cathro, Levein wanted Jon Daly, to get the job, another gamble, and when Ann said no Levein had no option as he didn't want an outsider coming into his wee bootroom full of his chosen men. You can bet that when Levein is sacked or moved he'll want Daly again mark my words.

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3 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Just as I thought, constant criticism without a solution. 

The solution is get shot of Levein and his lackies and advertise the job  without conditions regarding who on the coaching staff says.  Isn't that clear enough for you Des Lynam if not i can't help you. Maybe you should see a priest.

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Just now, mitch41 said:

The solution is get shot of Levein and his lackies and advertise the job  without conditions regarding who on the coaching staff says.  Isn't that clear enough for you Des Lynam if not i can't help you. Maybe you should see a priest.

 

 

Not a priest but I'm available!

 

Having said that Mitch, you're in a lot more need of redemption than Des. 

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3 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

The solution is get shot of Levein and his lackies and advertise the job  without conditions regarding who on the coaching staff says.  Isn't that clear enough for you Des Lynam if not i can't help you. Maybe you should see a priest.

 

And replace him with who? 

 

What if no one applies? What would Mitch Budge do? 

 

Aye it's as clear as mud :lol: 

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15 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

Agenda? Wanting Levein to succeed and do well? 

 

I just couldn't see him signing Tziolis, Avlonitis, Hughes, Sowah, Martin and Struna. 

 

I will agree the football on the park is awful to watch. However he must be given January to shake things up squad wise. 

 

Please accept my apologies red mist descended and I never read your post correctly

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13 minutes ago, Rents said:

 

Please accept my apologies red mist descended and I never read your post correctly

 

No need for an apology. We're all frustrated and just want Hearts to do better. 

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1 hour ago, Des Lynam said:

 

And replace him with who? 

 

What if no one applies? What would Mitch Budge do? 

 

Aye it's as clear as mud :lol: 

Love you. Life would be so boring without your wee funny posts.

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1 hour ago, Rudy T said:

 

What have any of these managers actually achieved that makes them so much better than Levein?

Won one trophy between them as a manager I think. Fits the bill for us right enough. 

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1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

The solution is get shot of Levein and his lackies and advertise the job  without conditions regarding who on the coaching staff says.  Isn't that clear enough for you Des Lynam if not i can't help you. Maybe you should see a priest.

And if none of your suggested names applies for the job?

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1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

We should change manager every time we lose  or draw a game. That will ensure we eventually get a good one! (won't it?)

But history shows our good managers only win  two or three in a row then lose. Just like 75% of Manager’s. 

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Bazzas right boot
7 hours ago, Erik said:

'Bested in verbal JKB combat'

 

LOL :lol: 

You'll  understand that!

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

We should change manager every time we lose  or draw a game. That will ensure we eventually get a good one! (won't it?)

 

We should execute the previous one as HT entertainment.

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2 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

What have any of these managers actually achieved that makes them so much better than Levein?

Well in Scotland both McInnes and Wright have won domestic trophies, something that Levein has not even come close to achieving. 

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2 hours ago, mitch41 said:

The solution is get shot of Levein and his lackies and advertise the job  without conditions regarding who on the coaching staff says.  Isn't that clear enough for you Des Lynam if not i can't help you. Maybe you should see a priest.

Exactly Mitch. Levein and his negative, stubborn defensive style of football is dragging the club down. He doesn't want the job and it shows. 

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