Accounts and AGM 2017 ( Merged )

[maroonlegions]

2 hours ago, Ryder said:

Extremely disappointing to have to read innuendo about implied misappropriation of FoH money and nepotism by the club, from supposed Hearts supporters, on a Hearts forum. It’s like Hibs.net on here these days. 

 

Hearts fans???

[JamboAl]

Just now, maroonlegions said:

 

Hearts fans???

Well may you ask!

[maroonlegions]

6 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

A serious matter.  According to an expert accountancy website i visit from time to time, our accounts show we stole £22,000 from Save the Children and had the temerity to include it in the accounts.

 

Shameful.

 

On the other hand one contributor to that site expresses the view that FOH, Is absolutely taking the pish out of HSL.

 links to website  and highlight the evidence that we did such a thing??

[maroonlegions]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Well may you ask!

 

As Ryder posted..

Extremely disappointing to have to read innuendo about implied misappropriation of FoH money and nepotism by the club, from supposed Hearts supporters, on a Hearts forum. It’s like Hibs.net on here these days. 

 

"Innuendo"..

[SUTOL]

4 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

 links to website  and highlight the evidence that we did such a thing??

 

try hibs.net. 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

 links to website  and highlight the evidence that we did such a thing??

 

A well known Edinburgh fans forum 

[EIEIO]

2 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

Could someone explain to the mathematically challenged (aka, me) why it was necessary to include this amount in the profit and loss account, when FoH contributions aren't?

That aside, it's reassuring to know that some parts of the club are in excellent condition.

FoH money will eventually buy us share ownership whereas donation(s) from other parties will not.

[Chaps]

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/11/20/hearts-owner-ann-budge-admits-last-financial-year-challenging/

 

Interview with Ann explaining a bit more in depth.

[maroonlegions]

14 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

try hibs.net. 

 

 

 

 

vermin.net sounds about right.  FTH.

[sairyinthat]

4 hours ago, PTBCAL said:

 

I think includes monies due iro of our league finish but I may be wrong!!!!

Was there not also quite a large increase due to Celtics performance in group of Champions league paid to all Premier league teams.

[Thomaso]

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 22:06, obua said:

Main contractor on new stand.

 

Obua

 

There is confusion on here on how this project has been managed and contracted.

 

There is no "Main Contractor".  Usually a Main Contractor will tender the job to the Client and be responsible for managing, and paying, the subcontractors carrying out the works on site.

 

In this project the Club did not want to go down that route as they had been stitched up by Main Contractors on claims when the other 3 stands were built.  So they went down a 'Construction Management' form of contract.

 

They appointed a 'Project Manager' with back up team, and on behalf of the Club they obtained tenders from the various trades - curtainwalling, steelwork, M&E, etc.

 

The successful 'Trade contractor' then went into contract direct with HMFC and were paid direct by the Club.  The 'Trade Contractors' were managed on site directly by the Project Manager (Derek Ferrier).

 

JBC (Ann's brothers company) were just another 'Trade Contractor' carrying out various works on site, however at no time did they act as a traditional 'Main Contractor' and were not involved in managing our glazed curtainwall works package for instance.

 

Hope that clarifies.

[Tiger]

Received the notice of the AGM in the mail this morning but no accounts, did anyone else who never elected to receive them online not receive theirs?

[Footballfirst]

11 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Received the notice of the AGM in the mail this morning but no accounts, did anyone else who never elected to receive them online not receive theirs?

 

I haven't had anything as yet.  I had a look at the Shareview website, but there is nothing there either.

[Disco Dave]

22 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Received the notice of the AGM in the mail this morning but no accounts, did anyone else who never elected to receive them online not receive theirs?

Accounts are on the club website 

[Tiger]

28 minutes ago, Disco Dave said:

Accounts are on the club website 

 

Yes I know thanks but I elected to receive them by mail.

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Received the notice of the AGM in the mail this morning but no accounts, did anyone else who never elected to receive them online not receive theirs?

 

Anyone know who I should contact? I've looked everywhere and cant find any contact info.

[jambali]

10 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

Anyone know who I should contact? I've looked everywhere and cant find any contact info.

Jacqui Duncan since she is the Company Secretary

[PJB]

53 minutes ago, jambali said:

Jacqui Duncan since she is the Company Secretary

Hi Tiger I can help you with this but cannot send you a PM?

[graygo]

1 hour ago, PJB said:

Hi Tiger I can help you with this but cannot send you a PM?

 

Or quote the correct posts 

 

On a side note, please don't tell me staff at the club actually read this forum.

[scott herbertson]

21 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Or quote the correct posts 

 

On a side note, please don't tell me staff at the club actually read this forum.

 

 

I hope not - they must be depressed enough with recent results. Reading this I would worry for them...

[Tiger]

2 hours ago, PJB said:

Hi Tiger I can help you with this but cannot send you a PM?

 

PM sent PJB, thanks.

[PJB]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Or quote the correct posts 

 

On a side note, please don't tell me staff at the club actually read this forum.

Yes not very good at this forum lark.

 

No dont work for the club.

[Perth to Paisley]

Fancy going to the AGM ... any idea what evidence I need to get in?

Share certificate is framed and on the wall in the west wing ?⚽️??

[DETTY29]

52 minutes ago, Perth to Paisley said:

Fancy going to the AGM ... any idea what evidence I need to get in?

Share certificate is framed and on the wall in the west wing ?⚽️??

As long as you have your voting card you'll get in.

[1953]

On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 15:08, Footballfirst said:

 

If you want to put it that way, then yes, it is a £200k loss (but only after paying £3.7m plus the £2.5m donation towards building the new stand in the 12 month period)

I hope that you can answer this FF. If we hadn't got the mystery £2.5m our £2.3m profit would have been a £200k loss but presumably if we hadn't had the £2.5m we wouldn't have built the stand so is it possible to say how much of the redevelopment expenditure is included in the P & L account as if it wasn't there either the bottom line would increase again back to profit. I'm guessing that most of the expenditure won't be in the P&L as it has been capitalised. Or have I got it completely wrong? Cheers.

[obua]

9 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Obua

 

There is confusion on here on how this project has been managed and contracted.

 

There is no "Main Contractor".  Usually a Main Contractor will tender the job to the Client and be responsible for managing, and paying, the subcontractors carrying out the works on site.

 

In this project the Club did not want to go down that route as they had been stitched up by Main Contractors on claims when the other 3 stands were built.  So they went down a 'Construction Management' form of contract.

 

They appointed a 'Project Manager' with back up team, and on behalf of the Club they obtained tenders from the various trades - curtainwalling, steelwork, M&E, etc.

 

The successful 'Trade contractor' then went into contract direct with HMFC and were paid direct by the Club.  The 'Trade Contractors' were managed on site directly by the Project Manager (Derek Ferrier).

 

JBC (Ann's brothers company) were just another 'Trade Contractor' carrying out various works on site, however at no time did they act as a traditional 'Main Contractor' and were not involved in managing our glazed curtainwall works package for instance.

 

Hope that clarifies.

Thanks Thomaso,I stand corrected.

[Footballfirst]

46 minutes ago, 1953 said:

I hope that you can answer this FF. If we hadn't got the mystery £2.5m our £2.3m profit would have been a £200k loss but presumably if we hadn't had the £2.5m we wouldn't have built the stand so is it possible to say how much of the redevelopment expenditure is included in the P & L account as if it wasn't there either the bottom line would increase again back to profit. I'm guessing that most of the expenditure won't be in the P&L as it has been capitalised. Or have I got it completely wrong? Cheers.

 

I think you are correct in your interpretation. I'm not an accountant, so I can, and do, get it wrong sometimes, as you will see in my next post.

[Kiwidoug]

11 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

 links to website  and highlight the evidence that we did such a thing??

The website is demented.net

[Footballfirst]

I have received some feedback by PM that explains the accounting treatment for the £22k arrangement fee that I questioned earlier.  I'm now satisfied that there is no other arrangement fee other than the £110k mentioned in the loan agreement ............. and apologies for setting some people off on a wild goose chase and thanks to "Glamorgan Jambo" for first pointing it out.

 

Here is the PM

Quote

I'm a reader of kickback but don't post - I read your post in the thread about the financial statements regarding the £22k charge which seemed to cause some confusion. 

I believe this is the £110k arrangement fee being spread over 5 years. Although the amount was paid in cash during 2015 it has a benefit across a number of years so can be included on the balance sheet (probably within prepayments and accrued income) and depreciated evenly. 

I think this is confirmed in the cash flow statement on page 13 where the arrangement fees paid line for the year is £nil which demonstrates that the £22k charge is a non cash item.

 

 

I looked back over the accounts and responded with confirmation as follows:

Quote

Thanks for the feedback.  I see where you are coming from.

I had a look at the 2015 and 2016 accounts to confirm your interpretation.

2015 has "Interest and arrangement fees paid" as £150k in the cash flow, but £172k for "Interest payable and similar charges" in the Profit & Loss account that reflects £150k interest and £22k arrangement fee.

2016 has a figure of £247k in the Cash Flow which if you break it down, we should have £150k interest, £110k arrangement fee, but we know that £13k of interest was waived by Bidco, leaving the calculation £150k + £110K - £13k = £247k.  The Profit & Loss has the same £172k for "Interest payable and similar charges" as in the previous year.

So it does looks as if £22k will be charged to the Profit and Loss for each of the five years 2015 to 2019, with the actual single payment of £110k on the 2016 Cash Flow statement.

So thanks again.  That's why I'm not an accountant.

I will post something on the Accounts thread to confirm you observations and explain how it's been accounted for.
 

 

[Mikey1874]

All above is helpful and by asking the question helped clarify and highlight the matter.

 

All good. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Hopefully some of the fans tell cl what they think he's doing to the club in the colourful way they post on here and cl  "Hoggs" them.

 

Or better still -let Ann take care of them.

 

 

[SUTOL]

16 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

Do they take questions from the floor ? 

 

 

Yes they do. Though if you have something important that you want to ask it may be an option of putting it in writing a few days before, to the Company Secretary or the Chairman/women, especially if it would require a detailed answer. 

If you don't want to do that it may be worth making yourself known as someone who wants to ask a question before the meeting starts. 

 

 

 

Don't forget there is a certain way to end your questions. 

 

 

 

A clear shout of; 

 

 

 

[kila]

23 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

Letter came today. I have never been to a meeting before but will go to this one.

 

Do they take questions from the floor ? 

 

If so, no doubt some blawbag will make an erse of him / her self...

 

What are you planning to ask?  

[Yoda]

3 hours ago, kila said:

 

What are you planning to ask?  

Craig, why did you wait so long to sack that useless Cathro?

[Meadows]

On 21/11/2017 at 10:51, Thomaso said:

 

Obua

 

There is confusion on here on how this project has been managed and contracted.

 

There is no "Main Contractor".  Usually a Main Contractor will tender the job to the Client and be responsible for managing, and paying, the subcontractors carrying out the works on site.

 

In this project the Club did not want to go down that route as they had been stitched up by Main Contractors on claims when the other 3 stands were built.  So they went down a 'Construction Management' form of contract.

 

They appointed a 'Project Manager' with back up team, and on behalf of the Club they obtained tenders from the various trades - curtainwalling, steelwork, M&E, etc.

 

The successful 'Trade contractor' then went into contract direct with HMFC and were paid direct by the Club.  The 'Trade Contractors' were managed on site directly by the Project Manager (Derek Ferrier).

 

JBC (Ann's brothers company) were just another 'Trade Contractor' carrying out various works on site, however at no time did they act as a traditional 'Main Contractor' and were not involved in managing our glazed curtainwall works package for instance.

 

Hope that clarifies.

 

Whilst in no way disrespecting the fantastic job done by Derek Ferrier . Would / could you confirm at which point of the awarding of contracts you mention was DF brought onboard ? 

Also, who were the main contractors/ trade contractors for the undercroft project ? 

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, Meadows said:

 

Whilst in no way disrespecting the fantastic job done by Derek Ferrier . Would / could you confirm at which point of the awarding of contracts you mention was DF brought onboard ? 

Also, who were the main contractors/ trade contractors for the undercroft project ? 

Was Hardies not brought into the picture around April this year?

[Footballfirst]

Just a bit of perspective about FOH and the "wee team" equivalent, HSL.  

 

Hibs accounts, published earlier this week, confirm that £150,000 was raised from new shares in the last financial year.  HSL has 1,650 contributors.

FOH raised ten times as much over the same period and has circa 8,000 contributors.

[Rods]

I would recommend a look over on hibs net it's a proper lolathon. 

 

Couple of threads on finances in particular.

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Just a bit of perspective about FOH and the "wee team" equivalent, HSL.  

 

Hibs accounts, published earlier this week, confirm that £150,000 was raised from new shares in the last financial year.  HSL has 1,650 contributors.

FOH raised ten times as much over the same period and has circa 8,000 contributors.

 

Am I right in thinking that HSL and their current total is for the main part one off  donations and not monthly pledges?

[Footballfirst]

Just now, Ryder said:

 

Am I right in thinking that HSL and their current total is for main part single donations and not monthly pledges?

 

It started of with "Annual contributions will be set at a minimum of £225 per annum or £18.75 per month and fundraising will continue until Hibernian Supporters Limited has acquired all the shares that it can buy from Hibernian Football Club Ltd."   They have since dropped the minimum contribution to £7.73 a month (I assume the odd figure is related to transaction costs).  I think they always had an option for one-off payments.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

 

It started of with "Annual contributions will be set at a minimum of £225 per annum or £18.75 per month and fundraising will continue until Hibernian Supporters Limited has acquired all the shares that it can buy from Hibernian Football Club Ltd."   They have since dropped the minimum contribution to £7.73 a month (I assume the odd figure is related to transaction costs).  I think they always had an option for one-off payments.

 

Cheers. I think the bulk of what they have raised so far is from one off donations.

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

Cheers. I think the bulk of what they have raised so far is from one off donations.

 

I think the reverse is the case since the middle of 2016.  They had a share offer running in parallel with the HSL scheme until that point (there was a near £400k issue of new shares in June 2016).  There is no current open share offer other than HSL.

 

I keep track of what they have raised from documents lodged with Companies House. It looks as if their promotion helped increase contributions, as £49,200 was raised in the first three months of this financial year (the annual equivalent would be £196,800 if sustained).

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

 

I think the reverse is the case since the middle of 2016.  They had a share offer running in parallel with the HSL scheme until that point (there was a near £400k issue of new shares in June 2016).  There is no current open share offer other than HSL.

 

I keep track of what they have raised from documents lodged with Companies House. It looks as if their promotion helped increase contributions, as £49,200 was raised in the first three months of this financial year (the annual equivalent would be £196,800 if sustained).

 

Thanks. Fair enough, I must have that wrong then.

[Footballfirst]

12 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

Thanks. Fair enough, I must have that wrong then.

 

You are not wrong if you consider the one-off purchases outside HSL.  Since HSL and the separate share offer schemes started in January 2015, their shareholder list now contains 18 "nominee" companies, which at the last count (end of December 2016) held more than 13% of the club's shares, i.e. more than HSL.

 

The faceless nominee companies go under the guise of the following names:

Bass Rock Investments
Edinburgh Investments
Hilton Park Nominees
Leith Walk Nominees
Redwood Nominees
Water of Leith Nominees
Almond Investments
Duddingston Nominees
East Lothian Nominees
Forth Bridge Investments
North Berwick Investments
Wellington Nominees
Arthur Seat Nominees
First Choice Nominees
Scotland Street Nominees

London Nominees
Turnstile Investments
Value Investments

 

It's all a bit bizarre, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that STF or Petrie were behind some of these nominees in order to protect their investment and prevent them losing overall control in the future.  (That's purely speculation on my part as I have no evidence to back it up)

[Beast Boy]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

It's all a bit bizarre, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that STF or Petrie were behind some of these nominees in order to protect their investment and prevent them losing overall control in the future.  (That's purely speculation on my part as I have no evidence to back it up)

Edited 3 minutes ago by Footballfirst

 

That was my first thought when I read your post. Absolute NAP that this is a way of STF and Rod garaunteeing that they do not lose control whilst taking in supporter cash. 

[Footballfirst]

6 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

That was my first thought when I read your post. Absolute NAP that this is a way of STF and Rod garaunteeing that they do not lose control whilst taking in supporter cash. 

 

When STF's plan is complete, the intention was that HFC (STF & Petrie) would hold 49% and all other holdings, including HSL, 51%.  It would be difficult enough to get all the shareholders to vote, far less vote against STF/Petrie, so control was probably assured anyway.

 

However, at the end of the process, there will be 125m shares in total. Each of the first six nominee companies above happens to own 1.25m shares, i.e. 1% of the club's future share total. So even if STF/Petrie was behind just one of those companies, it would be enough to give them 50% in any vote.

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

When STF's plan is complete, the intention was that HFC (STF & Petrie) would hold 49% and all other holdings, including HSL, 51%.  It would be difficult enough to get all the shareholders to vote, far less vote against STF/Petrie, so control was probably assured anyway.

 

However, at the end of the process, there will be 125m shares in total. Each of the first six nominee companies above happens to own 1.25m shares, i.e. 1% of the club's future share total. So even if STF/Petrie was behind just one of those companies, it would be enough to give them 50% in any vote.

 

I think it’s glaringly obvious that Rod and the Farmer are behind those shareholdings and it’s all about control. Essentially it was a way of them squeezing the fans for more money without giving up any power.

[Everybody Loves Baz!]

On 11/20/2017 at 15:07, Ray Gin said:

Benefactor - Roseberry Estate.  NAP.

 

Hence why we were landed with that monstrosity of a kit last year.

It wasn't just one person.

It was two people from a company in town.

[Elias Henry Furst]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

 

It started of with "Annual contributions will be set at a minimum of £225 per annum or £18.75 per month and fundraising will continue until Hibernian Supporters Limited has acquired all the shares that it can buy from Hibernian Football Club Ltd."   They have since dropped the minimum contribution to £7.73 a month (I assume the odd figure is related to transaction costs).  I think they always had an option for one-off payments.

 

What happened on New Year’s Day ‘73?

 

 

What a diddy outfit.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

 

You are not wrong if you consider the one-off purchases outside HSL.  Since HSL and the separate share offer schemes started in January 2015, their shareholder list now contains 18 "nominee" companies, which at the last count (end of December 2016) held more than 13% of the club's shares, i.e. more than HSL.

 

The faceless nominee companies go under the guise of the following names:

Bass Rock Investments
Edinburgh Investments
Hilton Park Nominees
Leith Walk Nominees
Redwood Nominees
Water of Leith Nominees
Almond Investments
Duddingston Nominees
East Lothian Nominees
Forth Bridge Investments
North Berwick Investments
Wellington Nominees
Arthur Seat Nominees
First Choice Nominees
Scotland Street Nominees

London Nominees
Turnstile Investments
Value Investments

 

It's all a bit bizarre, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that STF or Petrie were behind some of these nominees in order to protect their investment and prevent them losing overall control in the future.  (That's purely speculation on my part as I have no evidence to back it up)

 

Very opaque

 

Some might say 'dodgy'