Jump to content

Accounts and AGM 2017 ( Merged )


2205ian

Recommended Posts

scott herbertson

Yes, thanks for that FF   - having your summary early makes for much less confusion and misunderstanding 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 348
  • Created
  • Last Reply
11 minutes ago, obua said:

Main contractor on new stand.

 Pretty big contract for JBC I’d say, maybe the biggest ever single contract!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

 

It's confirmed as being a donation towards the main stand development in Note 6

Anything to do with wearing the Save the Children logo, FF?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks FF for dissecting these accounts. I thought they looked positive and realised that any on field investment of any note would not happen until 2020. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So to summarise we have an expectation to spend £12.8m for the stand by the end of this financial year which will include the potential use of a £1.75m loan which we may draw down.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Looking at the Lease figures once again. it seems we have 10 years left on the Riccarton lease, based on the £292k a year figure.

 

Not a bad price imo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Here is the text of the family connection between Ann and one of the contractors:

 

 

During the year, the company purchased construction services from JB Contracts (Scotland) Limited amounting to £1,465,000 (2016 - £248,000). At 30 June 2017, the company owed JB Contracts (Scotland) Limited £200,000 (2016 - £240,000). Whilst there is a family connection between Dr A Budge and the director and controlling shareholder of this company, there are no shared business interests. The construction services were procured by our independent 3rd party Construction Manager, who was responsible for the evaluation, selection and appointment of suitable trade contractors, via a structured tender process. The Board are satisfied that the services were purchased on an arm's length basis.

 

Arms length....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

scott herbertson

Another positive We can take from the accounts is that the barometer figure of the ratio of staff costs to turnover has again decreased. It went down in the last year from 55% to 52%. KPMG, who are leaders in the field of football club financial analysis established the benchmark some time ago that a healthy club financially should spend less than 60% of its turnover on wages.

 

in the Robinson era and the Romanov era IIRC we never came anywhere near achieving this. I remember it being well over 100% at times

Link to comment
Share on other sites

kingantti1874

Good figures considering the off field investment and the lack of any cup runs of any note.. When we realise the financial benefits of the stand we will see a big step forwards 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Good figures considering the off field investment and the lack of any cup runs of any note.. When we realise the financial benefits of the stand we will see a big step forwards 

Although a concern would be the potential cost of not making the top 6 this season.  Not only would it mean no Europe and less SPFL prize money, it would also deny us our 3 biggest Category A home games i.e Hibs, Celtic and Rangers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

 

It's confirmed as being a donation towards the main stand development in Note 6

So who has got 2.5m to chuck in to help build the stand? Is it Ann herself?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, ericb said:

So who has got 2.5m to chuck in to help build the stand? Is it Ann herself?

 

If the benefactor wishes to remain anonymous, then perhaps the best response is to respect those wishes and not encourage idle speculation in order to try and figure out who it might be. Just saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mid Calder Jambo
12 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I just want to say a big "thank you" to FF for his significant contributions to this forum on these important financial issues. Your explanations, interpretations and insights are clear, concise and perfectly comprehensible.

 

Kind regards

WC1902

Seconded

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Jambomb said:

 Pretty big contract for JBC I’d say, maybe the biggest ever single contract!

When you take a look at abbreviated accounts at CH, I suspect that's a reasonable assumption to make 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Spencer said:

When you take a look at abbreviated accounts at CH, I suspect that's a reasonable assumption to make 

Bit of a risk I’d say!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Jambomb said:

Bit of a risk I’d say!!

Two possible risks I can see. The first is that this company isn’t capable of doing the work, though you would hope that the independent third party pm would do his due diligence on that. The second is that the independent third party pm wasn’t really independent and was influenced by Ann to help out a relative. 

 

Of course, there is actually a third risk of reputational damage in that people could look at this and then snidely try to infer that someting dodgy has happened. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Two possible risks I can see. The first is that this company isn’t capable of doing the work, though you would hope that the independent third party pm would do his due diligence on that. The second is that the independent third party pm wasn’t really independent and was influenced by Ann to help out a relative. 

 

Of course, there is actually a third risk of reputational damage in that people could look at this and then snidely try to infer that someting dodgy has happened. 

Their cash flow must have been stretched..

 

im afraid the 3rd risk will enevitable be main focus, it’s disappointing and naivety that we have let the focus of such a positive enhancement to Scottish football shift to negatives.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jambomb said:

Their cash flow must have been stretched..

 

im afraid the 3rd risk will enevitable be main focus, it’s disappointing and naivety that we have let the focus of such a positive enhancement to Scottish football shift to negatives.

 

But there are certain posters, even on this thread, who continually look for negatives.  They make assumptions and speculate often far divorced from reality.

There are one or two wealthy benefactors out there who seem willing to help the club eg I believe a group of business people advanced a material sum, half of which went to the club for wearing the Save the Children logo and the other half went to that charity.  Perhaps FF can confirm.  I seem to recall this being posted on social media recently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

But there are certain posters, even on this thread, who continually look for negatives.  They make assumptions and speculate often far divorced from reality.

There are one or two wealthy benefactors out there who seem willing to help the club eg I believe a group of business people advanced a material sum, half of which went to the club for wearing the Save the Children logo and the other half went to that charity.  Perhaps FF can confirm.  I seem to recall this being posted on social media recently.

Yep there is an unnamed benefactor, and actually they increased the Big Hearts contribution significantly from what was agreed, not sure it’s a group though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Footballfirst
49 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

But there are certain posters, even on this thread, who continually look for negatives.  They make assumptions and speculate often far divorced from reality.

There are one or two wealthy benefactors out there who seem willing to help the club eg I believe a group of business people advanced a material sum, half of which went to the club for wearing the Save the Children logo and the other half went to that charity.  Perhaps FF can confirm.  I seem to recall this being posted on social media recently.

 

Here's the announcement of the initial deal.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4268

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All Out Attack

Thanks to FF for the decryption work. 

 

There are clearly two sides to this however:

 

From an overall club prospective it looks like finances are doing really well during this tricky rebuilding period. This is quite a feat and needs applauding. 

 

From an on field view, this is not so good. It seems to reflect a small increase in the football side budget and this has already been low since administration. Budge did say the football side would not be affected by the new building work.  I'm not sure about that now. I suspect next year's figures will show a difference with the likes of Berra and Lafferty in the squad and shows we are heading in the right direction for the 3rd biggest club in the country.

 

It would be nice to ascertain what we are spending on coaching staff, as I personally think there are significant savings to be made there. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

One negative - Looking at the increase in the staff costs and numbers in each functional area of £364K, I think we can take it as read that the football budget is being constrained because of the current capital spending, i.e. the increase in turnover (£1.288m) is being mainly spent on non football activities. 

 

That situation is likely to continue at least for the current season, and will probably continue until the £1.75m loan facility (if used) is paid off.  The FOH money will also be directed to repaying the Bidco loan from May 2018 onwards and will take 20 months to pay off, so there will be no direct benefit to the club for that period.

Id assume that once the main stand is up and running fully then our turnover should rise due to hospitality etc. Any idea how much this could possibly be per season i.e. how much do other clubs with superior facilities make as opposed to us?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Footballfirst
17 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Id assume that once the main stand is up and running fully then our turnover should rise due to hospitality etc. Any idea how much this could possibly be per season i.e. how much do other clubs with superior facilities make as opposed to us?

 

Aberdden's turnover in 2016 was £13.4m.  We should be capable  of matching that within the next two years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

Aberdden's turnover in 2016 was £13.4m.  We should be capable  of matching that within the next two years.

Sorry for being lazy but how much was ours? and any idea how much the stand will make us per season? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Two possible risks I can see. The first is that this company isn’t capable of doing the work, though you would hope that the independent third party pm would do his due diligence on that. The second is that the independent third party pm wasn’t really independent and was influenced by Ann to help out a relative. 

 

Of course, there is actually a third risk of reputational damage in that people could look at this and then snidely try to infer that someting dodgy has happened. 

Who has tried to infer per your closing remark? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Spencer said:

Who has tried to infer per your closing remark? 

If the cap fits.....

Otherwise no need for you to worry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Footballfirst
1 hour ago, stevie1874 said:

Sorry for being lazy but how much was ours? and any idea how much the stand will make us per season? 

 

£11.255m. No idea how much the new stand will generate.  If full every week, then I'd guess anything up to £1.5m - £2m maybe, if not, then who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ericb said:

So who has got 2.5m to chuck in to help build the stand? Is it Ann herself?

No.  It was me. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Looking at the Lease figures once again. it seems we have 10 years left on the Riccarton lease, based on the £292k a year figure.

 

Any idea what happens after the lease runs out? I'm guessing a renegotiation of the lease, assuming Heriot Watt want to extend?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Footballfirst
3 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

Any idea what happens after the lease runs out? I'm guessing a renegotiation of the lease, assuming Heriot Watt want to extend?

 

I'd imagine that Hearts would seek to renew it, dependent on the cost of course. It's much that same with the SFA whether or not to renew the Hampden lease.

 

The cost to Hearts looks as if it was £4k higher than the previous year, so there may be an in built price increase during each remaining year of the lease, so by the end it could be £40k a year higher, which woulnd't be too bad inflation wise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Spencer said:

Who has tried to infer per your closing remark? 

I was merely articulating the risks as I see them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty happy to accept that we won't have so much to spend on the playing side over the next couple of years due to meeting these vital infrastructure commitments.

 

Problem is though that I'm 103 now and colinmaroon's got a few years on me.

 

We're not going to last forever!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 18/11/2017 at 23:02, Kiwidoug said:

I'm pretty happy to accept that we won't have so much to spend on the playing side over the next couple of years due to meeting these vital infrastructure commitments.

 

Problem is though that I'm 103 now and colinmaroon's got a few years on me.

 

We're not going to last forever!!

You are happy we are going to be shite for another couple of years because we (quite arrogantly) chose to make the new stand to a higher, thus more expensive spec? I am unsure that I agree.

 

The new stand needed built, and looks great. Whether we needed to overspend is highly debatable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said:

You are happy we are going to be shite for another couple of years because we (quite arrogantly) chose to make the new stand to a higher, thus more expensive spec? I am unsure that I agree.

 

The new stand needed built, and looks great. Whether we needed to overspend is highly debatable. 

I agree. I got criticised for suggesting it was a vanity project. Interesting how necessary the overspend has been. It's certainly constrained what we can achieve on the park. 

 

It can't be overlooked that today was almost 3,500 under capacity for the first game at the new stadium. That is not a good turn out in such circumstances. I suspect things will get worse because there are teams coming to Tynecastle who will be very difficult opponents. County will be very organised next week. They certainly were against Celtic. I'm absolutely certain Motherwell will come and take 3 points in a few weeks time. Nailed on bottom 6 performance this year. It won't get better under Levein 

 

Will be interesting what AB has to reveal at the AGM regarding the £1.7m loan and the terms thereof 

 

She will get nervous at sub 17,000 home attendances though. And so she should 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bowmans_Boot said:

You are happy we are going to be shite for another couple of years because we (quite arrogantly) chose to make the new stand to a higher, thus more expensive spec? I am unsure that I agree.

 

The new stand needed built, and looks great. Whether we needed to overspend is highly debatable. 

I'm sorry but I think we may actually be pretty much in agreement.  I'm sure you didn't dispute the statements of Ann Budge when she took over that the entire club was rotten from top to bottom.  That clearly meant that infrastructure spending was inevitable.

 

The money spent on the stand can't be spent on the squad.  Despite that I agree that our on field performance has to improve dramatically over the next 2 years.  Even with the infrastructure commitments we still have more money than the vast majority of clubs could ever dream of.

 

The point I tried to make was that in a couple of years we will be spending more on players and less on building than we are now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dagger Is Back
On 17/11/2017 at 22:17, Jambomb said:

 Pretty big contract for JBC I’d say, maybe the biggest ever single contract!

 

Bloody huge contract for a company that size you’d reckon. 

 

Not sure I’d use connected family in similar circumstances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

Bloody huge contract for a company that size you’d reckon. 

 

Not sure I’d use connected family in similar circumstances.

It was a poor call from AB and one I'm very surprised she made in all honesty. 

 

She's had to make mention of it within the A/A's and quite honestly the - independently approved / at arms length narrative is just seeking to placate people.

 

It's brought unnecessary scrutiny given project is over budget and over timescale 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Spencer said:

I agree. I got criticised for suggesting it was a vanity project. Interesting how necessary the overspend has been. It's certainly constrained what we can achieve on the park. 

 

It can't be overlooked that today was almost 3,500 under capacity for the first game at the new stadium. That is not a good turn out in such circumstances. I suspect things will get worse because there are teams coming to Tynecastle who will be very difficult opponents. County will be very organised next week. They certainly were against Celtic. I'm absolutely certain Motherwell will come and take 3 points in a few weeks time. Nailed on bottom 6 performance this year. It won't get better under Levein 

 

Will be interesting what AB has to reveal at the AGM regarding the £1.7m loan and the terms thereof 

 

She will get nervous at sub 17,000 home attendances though. And so she should 

The loan terms were 2.5% interest it was mentioned previously.

 

While i get the comments regarding extra spend its clearly not a vanity project, what i would say is that the club clearly want this done once and right so it can generate future income.

 

To do that how much did we spend ?and how much did we have to spend ? are two different questions.

 

What I want to know is with regard to the £5.9m expected spend on top of the £6.9m already spent (£700k buying land included). That equates to £12.8m is that the expected final total ? If it is then that is well done in my book with minimal overspend.

 

i suspect it isnt though and is the original estimate.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a bad result overall IMO

obviously the good news is that our turnover is going up and will increase with hospitality and additional ticket sales .. that combined with the FOH pledges means that provided we steady the ship over the next few years we will undoudebtly be in a far better position to attract better players 

 

good to see that our academy spend has remained constant over this period and you can see with some of the young boys progressing this has been a highlight - we are spending much more money in this area and it's starting to prove dividends 

 

my one criticism is that we have to be better at our 1st team recruitment - too many players have been brought in on long term contracts and just aren't good enough - considering the financial position we are in at the moment it isn't a car crash by any matter of means but we absolutely need improvement with our recruitment policy and starting in January 2018 - looks like we need to shift some out first but that's no bad thing and needs to happen asap 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...