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Accounts and AGM 2017 ( Merged )


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7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Very opaque

 

Some might say 'dodgy'

 

Others might say Ponzi...

 

:ninja:

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On 21/11/2017 at 18:35, Perth to Paisley said:

Fancy going to the AGM ... any idea what evidence I need to get in?

Share certificate is framed and on the wall in the west wing ?⚽️??

 

I appreciate it may be of little use as, presumably, most folk will have their own voting cards, but I have 4 going spare if anybody wants one to gain access to the AGM.

 

Just fire a PM and I'll send it/them on.

 

Don't try and claim to be me though if you ask a bawbaggy question :lol: 

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3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Just a bit of perspective about FOH and the "wee team" equivalent, HSL.  

 

Hibs accounts, published earlier this week, confirm that £150,000 was raised from new shares in the last financial year.  HSL has 1,650 contributors.

FOH raised ten times as much over the same period and has circa 8,000 contributors.

5 times as many fans putting in 10 times as much - we're actually magnificent

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Footballfirst
10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Very opaque

 

Some might say 'dodgy'

 

Celtic fans might say something along the lines of:

It is difficult to fathom the motive behind who would make such a donation unless of course they have something to hide and want to remain out of the spotlight.

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2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

Celtic fans might say something along the lines of:

It is difficult to fathom the motive behind who would make such a donation unless of course they have something to hide and want to remain out of the spotlight.

 

:D

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It's interesting how many on .net try to fudge this when it is clear that FoH is massively more successful than their scheme.

 

The part they just don't understand is how good thousands of people like me feel every month when the payment is made.  It's also a real bonanza for us exiles who don't support the club financially in any other way.

 

I trust another  £1,000,000 wiill be handed over at half time at one of our friends forthcoming visits.

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5 hours ago, Boof said:

 

I appreciate it may be of little use as, presumably, most folk will have their own voting cards, but I have 4 going spare if anybody wants one to gain access to the AGM.

 

Just fire a PM and I'll send it/them on.

 

Don't try and claim to be me though if you ask a bawbaggy question :lol: 

Craig,

 

A bloke in the pub told me you......

 

Last years classic.

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Just as an aside it seems Hibs accounts confirms they got 500k for Cummings sale.

 

 

Weren't they offered 2 million previously?

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10 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

 

You are not wrong if you consider the one-off purchases outside HSL.  Since HSL and the separate share offer schemes started in January 2015, their shareholder list now contains 18 "nominee" companies, which at the last count (end of December 2016) held more than 13% of the club's shares, i.e. more than HSL.

 

The faceless nominee companies go under the guise of the following names:

Bass Rock Investments
Edinburgh Investments
Hilton Park Nominees
Leith Walk Nominees
Redwood Nominees
Water of Leith Nominees
Almond Investments
Duddingston Nominees
East Lothian Nominees
Forth Bridge Investments
North Berwick Investments
Wellington Nominees
Arthur Seat Nominees
First Choice Nominees
Scotland Street Nominees

London Nominees
Turnstile Investments
Value Investments

 

It's all a bit bizarre, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that STF or Petrie were behind some of these nominees in order to protect their investment and prevent them losing overall control in the future.  (That's purely speculation on my part as I have no evidence to back it up)

 Are these the "names" of accounts held by stockbrokers or investment companies?Is there no regulation that requires a company to reveal who is the actual owner of these shares?It could be Romanov for all Hibs fans know otherwise.Hibs fans must surely have an idea of what is going on.

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Allowayjambo1874
10 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

 

You are not wrong if you consider the one-off purchases outside HSL.  Since HSL and the separate share offer schemes started in January 2015, their shareholder list now contains 18 "nominee" companies, which at the last count (end of December 2016) held more than 13% of the club's shares, i.e. more than HSL.

 

The faceless nominee companies go under the guise of the following names:

Bass Rock Investments
Edinburgh Investments
Hilton Park Nominees
Leith Walk Nominees
Redwood Nominees
Water of Leith Nominees
Almond Investments
Duddingston Nominees
East Lothian Nominees
Forth Bridge Investments
North Berwick Investments
Wellington Nominees
Arthur Seat Nominees
First Choice Nominees
Scotland Street Nominees

London Nominees
Turnstile Investments
Value Investments

 

It's all a bit bizarre, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that STF or Petrie were behind some of these nominees in order to protect their investment and prevent them losing overall control in the future.  (That's purely speculation on my part as I have no evidence to back it up)

 

FF

sorry can I just run this past you to clarify as I’m a bit confused. Is it correct that STF/RP put 51% of the shares of hibs holding company up for sale (purchase price circa £2.5m) with the hope HSL would purchase them and allow hibs to become ‘fan owned’.? Approximately half of the shares available  have been sold however the nominee companies you have listed above own slightly more than 50% of these sold shares. so as it stands right now STF/Petrie owns roughly 75%, HSL 12% and companies listed above 13%?

 

sorry, lots of numbers in there! 

 

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Allowayjambo1874
33 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

 Are these the "names" of accounts held by stockbrokers or investment companies?Is there no regulation that requires a company to reveal who is the actual owner of these shares?It could be Romanov for all Hibs fans know otherwise.Hibs fans must surely have an idea of what is going on.

 

No I don’t think there needs to be any disclosure as this is what happened with Sevco. They ended up with margarita investment and blue pitch holdings as fairly major shareholders and no one knew who was behind these investment companies.

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26 minutes ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

 

No I don’t think there needs to be any disclosure as this is what happened with Sevco. They ended up with margarita investment and blue pitch holdings as fairly major shareholders and no one knew who was behind these investment companies.

Thanks for the reply.If I were a Hibs fan buying shares to achieve fan ownership I would want to know who owns what.

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Allowayjambo1874
15 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

Thanks for the reply.If I were a Hibs fan buying shares to achieve fan ownership I would want to know who owns what.

 

Just re read some of their accounts headlines and it seems that 34% of hibs shares now owned by the ‘fans’ but only 11% owned by HSL. Reading FF’s list I would be a bit concerned that whilst STF offer to sell shares for fan ownership is fairly magnanimous it appears that HSL isn’t solely the main player in this (like FOH is with us),  these other investment companies are getting in on the act. It could be nothing to get worked up about but if I was a hibs fan I would be doing some digging.  However these half wits are far too busy analysing everything to do with our new stand to worry about their own club. It’s like Groundhog Day and the relegation party!

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gorgie rd eh11
12 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

 

You are not wrong if you consider the one-off purchases outside HSL.  Since HSL and the separate share offer schemes started in January 2015, their shareholder list now contains 18 "nominee" companies, which at the last count (end of December 2016) held more than 13% of the club's shares, i.e. more than HSL.

 

The faceless nominee companies go under the guise of the following names:

Bass Rock Investments
Edinburgh Investments
Hilton Park Nominees
Leith Walk Nominees
Redwood Nominees
Water of Leith Nominees
Almond Investments
Duddingston Nominees
East Lothian Nominees
Forth Bridge Investments
North Berwick Investments
Wellington Nominees
Arthur Seat Nominees
First Choice Nominees
Scotland Street Nominees

London Nominees
Turnstile Investments
Value Investments

 

It's all a bit bizarre, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that STF or Petrie were behind some of these nominees in order to protect their investment and prevent them losing overall control in the future.  (That's purely speculation on my part as I have no evidence to back it up)

 

 

 That doesn't look dodgy at all.  :teehee:

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Footballfirst
1 hour ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

 

FF

sorry can I just run this past you to clarify as I’m a bit confused. Is it correct that STF/RP put 51% of the shares of hibs holding company up for sale (purchase price circa £2.5m) with the hope HSL would purchase them and allow hibs to become ‘fan owned’.? Approximately half of the shares available  have been sold however the nominee companies you have listed above own slightly more than 50% of these sold shares. so as it stands right now STF/Petrie owns roughly 75%, HSL 12% and companies listed above 13%?

 

sorry, lots of numbers in there! 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

 

Just re read some of their accounts headlines and it seems that 34% of hibs shares now owned by the ‘fans’ but only 11% owned by HSL. Reading FF’s list I would be a bit concerned that whilst STF offer to sell shares for fan ownership is fairly magnanimous it appears that HSL isn’t solely the main player in this (like FOH is with us),  these other investment companies are getting in on the act. It could be nothing to get worked up about but if I was a hibs fan I would be doing some digging.  However these half wits are far too busy analysing everything to do with our new stand to worry about their own club. It’s like Groundhog Day and the relegation party!

 

There were 62,500,000 shares issued at the time that HSL was set up and a general share offer commenced in January 2015.  HFC Holdings (STF 90% & Petrie 10%) held over 61m of the shares (98%) with the remainder held by a number of small shareholders.

 

The plan was to raise up to £2.5m by issuing 62,500,000 new shares at 4p a share.  Once all the shares had been issued, HFC Holdings would then hold 49%, with the smaller shareholders, including HSL, holding 51%.  The share offer would raise some cash fairly quickly, while HSL would raise cash for shares from fans on an ongoing basis.  I don't know what time scales were anticipated, but obviously it would take several years to reach the £2.5m / 62.5m share target.

 

At the last notification, at the end of September, approx 32.5m of the planned 62.5m shares had been issued, raising £1.3m, leaving 30m shares and £1.2m still to be raised.

 

So with 95m shares now issued, HFC Holdings has been diluted to just under 65%, HSL have 11%, the Nominee companies 13%, with the remaining 11% in the hands of individual small shareholders.

 

If HSL is left on its own to raise the remaining £1.2m, then it could take anything up to 8 years to do so.  Therefore, it is likely that further general share offers will be made to speed up the process.  

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21 minutes ago, jambali said:

How did a thread about our AGM & accounts become one about theirs?

Indeed, fascinating though it is, it should be on a separate thread.

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17 minutes ago, jambali said:

How did a thread about our AGM & accounts become one about theirs?

I think it started with FF pointing out the differences between FOH fan ownership model and HSL.

It was fair comment and emphasises how superior our fan base has been compared to that bunch of mugs?

It also shows that even though they are matching our attendances atm, when it comes to commitment there is light years between the two sets of fans.

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Still believe Dermot Desmond is way dodgier than anyone else involved in Scottish football.

 

Opaque is a polite word to use. 

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14 hours ago, Everybody Loves Baz! said:

It wasn't just one person.

It was two people from a company in town.

 

Are they otherwise connected to Hearts?

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Everybody Loves Baz!
1 hour ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Are they otherwise connected to Hearts?

Nope.

 

Very cryptic I know, but the two people are ST holders.

And at the moment wish to remain anonymous.

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2 hours ago, Everybody Loves Baz! said:

Nope.

 

Very cryptic I know, but the two people are ST holders.

And at the moment wish to remain anonymous.

 

From a financial investment company near the Playhouse?

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6 hours ago, Everybody Loves Baz! said:

Nope.

 

Very cryptic I know, but the two people are ST holders.

And at the moment wish to remain anonymous.

 

Thanks for the info.

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Coburg Hearts
Footballfirst
4 minutes ago, Coburg Hearts said:

Well, that made very good reading, at least to me. Wonder if FF would think the same?

 

No complaint from me on that analysis.  The rugger guy has got it pretty spot on.

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Coburg Hearts
6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

No complaint from me on that analysis.  The rugger guy has got it pretty spot on.

Cheers, FF. I wasn't sure if it was too simplistic or not. Read the replies and Spike and Frank are hurting real bad. Jealousy is a terrible thing haha

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6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

No complaint from me on that analysis.  The rugger guy has got it pretty spot on.

Laddie sent it to me from Norway.thought it worth passing on.

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8 hours ago, Everybody Loves Baz! said:

Nope.

 

Very cryptic I know, but the two people are ST holders.

And at the moment wish to remain anonymous.

Then a huge, heartfelt THANK YOU to them!

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1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Then a huge, heartfelt THANK YOU to them!

 

Absolutely. I do think that the under the radar nature of these donations has meant that we've all been a bit guilty of overlooking the magnitude of them.

 

£2.5m is massive for a club/business our size and allows us to be in an extremely secure starting position now that the foundations are now in place to really build the club over the short to medium term..

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1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Then a huge, heartfelt THANK YOU to them!

 

29 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Absolutely. I do think that the under the radar nature of these donations has meant that we've all been a bit guilty of overlooking the magnitude of them.

 

£2.5m is massive for a club/business our size and allows us to be in an extremely secure starting position now that the foundations are now in place to really build the club over the short to medium term..

 

Thank goodness some sanity remains.

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27 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Aberdeen has released their accounts which shows a healthy increase in turnover (and expenses).  It's the sort of figures that Hearts should be aiming for over the next two or three years.

https://afc.co.uk/2017/11/25/latest-accounts-show-strong-results-aberdeen-football-club/

 

NI5pzOc.jpg

 

The figure that jumps out at me is the £4,659k in commercial revenue. That’s a staggering sum (in SPFL terms) and one we need to aim to equal or beat. They’ve turned a healthy profit of half a mill too. They’re clearly a very well run operation.

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Footballfirst
9 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

The figure that jumps out at me is the £4,659k in commercial revenue. That’s a staggering sum (in SPFL terms) and one we need to aim to equal or beat. They’ve turned a healthy profit of half a mill too. They’re clearly a very well run operation.

I think Aberdeen classify some of their income differently from Hearts. e.g. the UEFA, Solidarity and Prize Money at £1.08m is less than half of what Hearts reported. I'm guessing that the prize money for finishing 2nd in the SPFL Premiership, will be included within "Broadcasting" as TV money or "Commercial", boosting one of those figures by over £2m.  Hearts "Broadcasting" figure was £244k, so, although they featured in more cup games, I can't see how they got to £2.9m without including another income stream.

 

The commercial figure as you say is excellent, even if it includes the SPFL cash, so their retail and catering operations must be doing very well.

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kingantti1874
28 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think Aberdeen classify some of their income differently from Hearts. e.g. the UEFA, Solidarity and Prize Money at £1.08m is less than half of what Hearts reported. I'm guessing that the prize money for finishing 2nd in the SPFL Premiership, will be included within "Broadcasting" as TV money or "Commercial", boosting one of those figures by over £2m.  Hearts "Broadcasting" figure was £244k, so, although they featured in more cup games, I can't see how they got to £2.9m without including another income stream.

 

The commercial figure as you say is excellent, even if it includes the SPFL cash, so their retail and catering operations must be doing very well.

 

£1m extra prize money, 2 cup finals, European football and the hates cash .. shows you how much lack of success on the pitch is costing us.. And it's a vicious circle.. look how much additional money they can invest on the pitch.. from a commercial perspective I think the difference is due to our  lack of hospitality facilities .. with the news main stand I think we will surpass Aberdeen over the next few years but need to invest more on the pitch soon

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14 hours ago, Ryder said:

The comments on Phil McCropcirclesandchemtrails’ site are incredible! ?

 

I particularly enjoyed one suggesting that Hearts might have gotten the anonymous £2.5 million donation from the Scottish Government.

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12 minutes ago, Manny1874 said:

 

I particularly enjoyed one suggesting that Hearts might have gotten the anonymous £2.5 million donation from the Scottish Government.

 

That is the levels of paranoia and idiocy we are dealing with here.

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It really is odd that someone appears to have donated that sum of money to the club.  It isn't a small amount dripped in by direct debit - it would have been enough to buy the club just a few years ago.

 

Who is Hearts minded and with enough money that they can dish out that amount of money with seemingly nothing in return?

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kingantti1874
17 minutes ago, Coco said:

It really is odd that someone appears to have donated that sum of money to the club.  It isn't a small amount dripped in by direct debit - it would have been enough to buy the club just a few years ago.

 

Who is Hearts minded and with enough money that they can dish out that amount of money with seemingly nothing in return?

 

Ann told us about the donation a year ago

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MacDonald Jardine
13 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

The figure that jumps out at me is the £4,659k in commercial revenue. That’s a staggering sum (in SPFL terms) and one we need to aim to equal or beat. They’ve turned a healthy profit of half a mill too. They’re clearly a very well run operation.

There aren't the same alternatives in Aberdeen though. 

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Big Slim Stylee
1 hour ago, Coco said:

It really is odd that someone appears to have donated that sum of money to the club.  It isn't a small amount dripped in by direct debit - it would have been enough to buy the club just a few years ago.

 

Who is Hearts minded and with enough money that they can dish out that amount of money with seemingly nothing in return?

 

I don't think it's odd at all. Rather a testament to the ability of the CEO to maximise contacts in a quiet and efficient way.

 

It's a different culture now from the one that surrounded the previous regimes tenure when serious Edinburgh money just ran a mile from us.

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1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

No need to worry phil whatever his name has had his expert run his eye over our accounts and all is well it seems...though if you read some of the comments you can see finance is not top of the average Celtic fans capabilities

 

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/11/24/rugger-guy-looks-at-the-annual-accounts-of-hearts/

On the page before chief.

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1 hour ago, Coco said:

It really is odd that someone appears to have donated that sum of money to the club.  It isn't a small amount dripped in by direct debit - it would have been enough to buy the club just a few years ago.

 

Who is Hearts minded and with enough money that they can dish out that amount of money with seemingly nothing in return?

 

i think the owner has alot to do with that, i am lead to believe its the very reason we got the donation as there is an existing relationship there.

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Big Slim Stylee
1 hour ago, Jamboelite said:

 

i think the owner has alot to do with that, i am lead to believe its the very reason we got the donation as there is an existing relationship there.

 

Indeed.

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On 11/25/2017 at 10:10, Footballfirst said:

I think Aberdeen classify some of their income differently from Hearts. e.g. the UEFA, Solidarity and Prize Money at £1.08m is less than half of what Hearts reported. I'm guessing that the prize money for finishing 2nd in the SPFL Premiership, will be included within "Broadcasting" as TV money or "Commercial", boosting one of those figures by over £2m.  Hearts "Broadcasting" figure was £244k, so, although they featured in more cup games, I can't see how they got to £2.9m without including another income stream.

 

The commercial figure as you say is excellent, even if it includes the SPFL cash, so their retail and catering operations must be doing very well.

 

They have done well again.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42122496

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