JIm Sillars trashes Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP

[jambos are go!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRzVT9L45II

 

Great viewing. SNP member  Sillars saying;

 

Wee Nicola is not very bright but the best of a bad bunch.

She should go as soon as someone else turns up.

The decision to call for IndyRef2 was a huge mistake.

No attempt has been made to find out why they lost the referendum

The decision on fracking was wrong and bad for Scotland

The SNP are totally centralised around Nicolas' Office with no policy making structures within the party.

Labour will offer a huge challenge  in central belt seats at the next Holyrood election and they probably wont have a majority

Next indy ref not advisable till 22/23 when they make a post Brexit case based on facts .

Independence needs a much broader base than the SNP.

 

IMO he is saying the independence movement needs Scottish Labour to succeed. Just an opinion.

[Gorgiewave]

 

Like Napoleon's escape from Elba, it looked clever at the time, but it soon ended with their Waterloo.

 

[indianajones]

10 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRzVT9L45II

 

Great viewing. SNP member  Sillars saying;

 

Wee Nicola is not very bright but the best of a bad bunch.

She should go as soon as someone else turns up.

The decision to call for IndyRef2 was a huge mistake.

No attempt has been made to find out why they lost the referendum

The decision on fracking was wrong and bad for Scotland

The SNP are totally centralised around Nicolas' Office with no policy making structures within the party.

Labour will offer a huge challenge  in central belt seats at the next Holyrood election and they probably wont have a majority

Next indy ref not advisable till 22/23 when they make a post Brexit case based on facts .

Independence needs a much broader base than the SNP.

 

IMO he is saying the independence movement needs Scottish Labour to succeed. Just an opinion.

 

 

I stopped reading after that.

 

 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Really excited to see the fresh viewpoints that will emerge here in this thread...

[yabadabadoo1874again]

...looks like Archie McPherson's twin sister is hamming it up...!!! 

[Gorgiewave]

22 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Really excited to see the fresh viewpoints that will emerge here in this thread...

 

The fresh viewpoint is that It's Over.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Meanwhile the former leader is busy filming the new Cracker.

 

 

[redjambo]

33 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

Really excited to see the fresh viewpoints that will emerge here in this thread...

 

Ok. Scotland should declare UDI and join together in a new federal state with Catalonia called "Scatalonia", with dual capitals in Barcelona and Edinburgh, a rotating presidency, haggis tapas as its national dish, and use bitcoin as its currency.

 

That fresh enough for you?

[Stephane Grappelli]

10 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Ok. Scotland should declare UDI and join together in a new federal state with Catalonia called "Scatalonia", with dual capitals in Barcelona and Edinburgh, a rotating presidency, haggis tapas as its national dish, and use bitcoin as its currency.

 

That fresh enough for you?

 

The national anthem could be "Scatman" by the late, great Scatman John.  May Christ have mercy on his sweet soul.

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, The Gorgie Gatsby said:

 

The national anthem could be "Scatman" by the late, great Scatman John.  May Christ have mercy on his sweet soul.

 

Great idea. Ladies and Gentleman, please rise or descend on bended knee for the Scatalonian national anthem:

 

 

[redm]

19 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Ok. Scotland should declare UDI and join together in a new federal state with Catalonia called "Scatalonia", with dual capitals in Barcelona and Edinburgh, a rotating presidency, haggis tapas as its national dish, and use bitcoin as its currency.

 

That fresh enough for you?

 

 

Scotalunya. YES. 

?

[redjambo]

Just now, redm said:

 

Scotalunya. YES. 

?

 

Admittedly, albeit grudgingly, a far better name for our magnificent new country than Scatalonia. Drat, back to the drawing board...

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, indianajones said:

 

 

I stopped reading after that.

 

 

 

Yep, me too. 

[deesidejambo]

Fracking is commonly done in North Sea wells and has been since the 70s.

 

not sure the SNP are aware of that.  Maybe they will have to ban offshore fracking also

[Gorgiewave]

32 minutes ago, redm said:

 

 

Scotalunya. YES. 

?

 

Two Catalan independence campaigners in jail tonight. I'm definitely in favour of that spreading to SNP personages.

[indianajones]

19 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Fracking is commonly done in North Sea wells and has been since the 70s.

 

not sure the SNP are aware of that.  Maybe they will have to ban offshore fracking also

 

Absolutely stupid comparison. 

[davemclaren]

Jim has been bitter since about 1975 or so... ?

[Tazio]

If Sillars had the bottle a number of years ago to push on with the Scottish  Labour Party as a separated entity from the Labour Party as he attempted then I believe Scotland would be independent by now. As it was he was he was a prominent force in moving the SNP away from the "tartan tory" reputation it had. 

[jambos are go!]

38 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Jim has been bitter since about 1975 or so... ?

But not since 1707 I presume.

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

But not since 1707 I presume.

He probably would be if he was old enough. 

[Space Mackerel]

You can spot the BBC Scotland and Daily Record readers a mile off on here. Which is a shame for their own intellect and personal advancement in life. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

3 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Fracking is commonly done in North Sea wells and has been since the 70s.

 

not sure the SNP are aware of that.  Maybe they will have to ban offshore fracking also

 

Been done in Alberta for as long as I can remember. A bit bigger than Scotland, right enough.

 

[jb102]

9 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Fracking is commonly done in North Sea wells and has been since the 70s.

 

not sure the SNP are aware of that.  Maybe they will have to ban offshore fracking also

Could do.Then maybe just import fracked gas from Pennsylvania three times a week.

[deesidejambo]

9 hours ago, indianajones said:

 

Absolutely stupid comparison. 

Nope.   One of the reasons behind a fracking ban is they say the technology causes earthquakes and or leaks of fliuds into different formations.  They should investigate the NS fraccs to see if that has happened.    They will find out it hasn't.

 

Also banning fracking while allowing frac gas to be imported suggests hypocrisy.

 

The SNP continue with their diddy populist policies.

 

Meanwhile the rich get richer as they drag their heels on tax rises.

 

I don't read the Mail, Express, or National as all three are for tubes.

[Sarah O]

The usual blow hards appearing I see.

 

Political threads are always just awful on here. 

 

 

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

The usual blow hards appearing I see.

 

Political threads are always just awful on here. 

 

 

 

 

They're all experts.

[Harry Potter]

8 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

You can spot the BBC Scotland and Daily Record readers a mile off on here. Which is a shame for their own intellect and personal advancement in life. 

[Peebo]

9 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Fracking is commonly done in North Sea wells and has been since the 70s.

 

not sure the SNP are aware of that.  Maybe they will have to ban offshore fracking also

 

 

It’s true. But I think most people now take the term “fracking” to mean the factory-like, multi-stage operations that are seen across multiple plays (typically shale or “tight” formations) in the onshore US. 

[Unknown user]

28 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Nope.   One of the reasons behind a fracking ban is they say the technology causes earthquakes and or leaks of fliuds into different formations.  They should investigate the NS fraccs to see if that has happened.    They will find out it hasn't.

 

Also banning fracking while allowing frac gas to be imported suggests hypocrisy.

 

The SNP continue with their diddy populist policies.

 

Meanwhile the rich get richer as they drag their heels on tax rises.

 

I don't read the Mail, Express, or National as all three are for tubes.

It absolutely is a stupid comparison, fracking in populated areas and fracking miles out at sea are obviously two very different things

[JamboX2]

I think he was making some decent points on a few points:

 

1. The Independence movement should become independent of the SNP. The devolution movement was a-political and rather than wobble grew and grew. The SNP will always put certain folk off and as long as it's the lead it will alienate Labour, Liberal, Tory and some Greens from the cause.

 

2. Sturgeon tying her first ministership to education is a mistake. Education is an oil tanker area and takes a long term to be corrected or shifted. That .ay not come soon enough for her efforts.

 

3. Things have massively changed through Brexit and the clock and argument needs reset on any timescales with serious thought put into the prospectus for independence. Added to that policy formation needs opened up across the SNP. No policy groups in the biggest Scottish party? Not utilising its talent.

 

It's shutting down this debate on what next and what went wrong which sums up why there's been no discernible boost to the SNP or independence by Brexit. The line is "one more push". Sillars has seen more change in politics across the UK than most. He should be brought into the tent not exiled.

[Nookie Bear]

10 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Two Catalan independence campaigners in jail tonight. I'm definitely in favour of that spreading to SNP personages.

 

We could perhaps draft in some of the Spanish constabulary to police the next Nationalist march...

[Nookie Bear]

9 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

You can spot the BBC Scotland and Daily Record readers a mile off on here. Which is a shame for their own intellect and personal advancement in life. 

 

Says the man who is quoting The Express on another thread.

 

Still miss Princess Diana? 

[Spencer]

12 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Meanwhile the former leader is busy filming the new Cracker.

 

 

Will you take a swatch at that 

 

Feck sake 

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, ManMoth said:

It absolutely is a stupid comparison, fracking in populated areas and fracking miles out at sea are obviously two very different things

Of course there is a difference but there are also similarities so its not "stupid" to consider these.

 

But the point is the SNP dont even know wells are routinely fracked offshore.

 

But keep on importing fracc gas - presumably the SNP are happy that people in the US can suffer. 

[Unknown user]

21 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Of course there is a difference but there are also similarities so its not "stupid" to consider these.

 

But the point is the SNP dont even know wells are routinely fracked offshore.

 

But keep on importing fracc gas - presumably the SNP are happy that people in the US can suffer. 

I don't believe that the national government aren't aware of offshore fracking chief, and your US hypocrisy doesn't hold water - the US has huge areas of largely unpopulated land, it's basically continent sized and can carry out this sort activity hundreds of miles from civilisation

[56anawthat]

Jim Sillars has made a 'career' out of opposing his own party's policies.

 

Maybe we should do some trial fracking in his own backyard to see how his constituents feel about that. Er.. Does he actually have a constituency? Maybe that wouldn't work then.

 

Is he still strongly in favour of  Brexit? Wonder what his colleagues think about that...

[Space Mackerel]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Says the man who is quoting The Express on another thread.

 

Still miss Princess Diana? 

 

 

That link was used to make the news source more "credible" for the BBC Scotland and Daily Record readers amongst us.

[Peebo]

3 hours ago, ManMoth said:

I don't believe that the national government aren't aware of offshore fracking chief, and your US hypocrisy doesn't hold water - the US has huge areas of largely unpopulated land, it's basically continent sized and can carry out this sort activity hundreds of miles from civilisation

Not to mention the fact that the people who control the mineral rights (eg local landowners) are typically well-rewarded for letting the fracking take place. 

 

The whole fracking thing in Scotland is pretty much red herring, and all about politics and populism. A Scottish government banning fracking is like me declaring myself unavailable for selection for the Scottish National team. 

[Boris]

13 minutes ago, Peebo said:

Not to mention the fact that the people who control the mineral rights (eg local landowners) are typically well-rewarded for letting the fracking take place. 

 

The whole fracking thing in Scotland is pretty much red herring, and all about politics and populism. A Scottish government banning fracking is like me declaring myself unavailable for selection for the Scottish National team. 

 

I heard a chap on the radio from some University saying that Scotland's geology doesn't really lend itself to fracking.  In other words, it would cost too much to extract too little.  Not worth it.

 

Edit: this chap http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40953427

[Peebo]

9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I heard a chap on the radio from some University saying that Scotland's geology doesn't really lend itself to fracking.  In other words, it would cost too much to extract too little.  Not worth it.

 

Edit: this chap http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40953427

Indeed, the economics make it very easy to ban fracking, particularly when such a ban creates political goodwill. 

[Boris]

13 minutes ago, Peebo said:

Indeed, the economics make it very easy to ban fracking, particularly when such a ban creates political goodwill. 

 

But given the economics of it, why is it even on the agenda?

[Peebo]

13 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

But given the economics of it, why is it even on the agenda?

The political agenda? Because people lap it up! It’s a vote-winner to ban it.

 

Commercially, not sure it is on the agenda of many companies who actually know what they are doing with unconventional oil or gas development. Sure, some (INEOS) will think they can do it. But geology, costs, logistics, regulatory structure, land ownership and the prices of oil and gas all mean the economics look extremely shakey.

 

Not many serious oil and gas companies will bother with it. 

[Boris]

10 minutes ago, Peebo said:

The political agenda? Because people lap it up! It’s a vote-winner to ban it.

 

Commercially, not sure it is on the agenda of many companies who actually know what they are doing with unconventional oil or gas development. Sure, some (INEOS) will think they can do it. But geology, costs, logistics, regulatory structure, land ownership and the prices of oil and gas all mean the economics look extremely shakey.

 

Not many serious oil and gas companies will bother with it. 

 

Which suggests that it is on the agenda at the behest of companies like Ineos, lobbying Westminster (and no doubt Holyrood) for the opportunity.  Which in turn brings up the environmental issues.

 

I doubt it's been mooted, just so it can be banned so a govt looks good.

[flecktimus]

30 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I heard a chap on the radio from some University saying that Scotland's geology doesn't really lend itself to fracking.  In other words, it would cost too much to extract too little.  Not worth it.

 

Edit: this chap http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40953427

As someone who has worked extracting mineral (coal) from the Scottish geology, i concur. I also worked in the North Derbyshire coalfield where the geology was a lot more stable. Many years later i met an American geologist whom worked in the oil industry. Basically i asked him why the North Derbyshire coal field had lots of methane gas and the Midlothian coal field had practically none despite being a lot deeper. His answer was quite simple; Scotland geology is so full of fault lines that the gas has escaped into the atmosphere over millions of years. Midlothian has at least 3 big fault lines, pentland fault, sheriff hall fault and the Southern Upland which is the largest.

[deesidejambo]

12 minutes ago, Peebo said:

The political agenda? Because people lap it up! It’s a vote-winner to ban it.

 

Commercially, not sure it is on the agenda of many companies who actually know what they are doing with unconventional oil or gas development. Sure, some (INEOS) will think they can do it. But geology, costs, logistics, regulatory structure, land ownership and the prices of oil and gas all mean the economics look extremely shakey.

 

Not many serious oil and gas companies will bother with it. 

Exactly this.  Its populist politics, which is an SNP speciality.  The volumes to be recovered are tiny, if any at all.   The real frac target areas are in England.

 

But taking in US frac gas is hypocrisy as many US fracked fields are under populated areas so its not correct to say US do it out in the desert.  They dont.

 

 

[Boris]

Just now, deesidejambo said:

Exactly this.  Its populist politics, which is an SNP speciality.  The volumes to be recovered are tiny, if any at all.   The real frac target areas are in England.

 

But taking in US frac gas is hypocrisy as many US fracked fields are under populated areas so its not correct to say US do it out in the desert.  They dont.

 

 

 

So fracking in Scotland is simply an SNP conspiracy put out there, so they can then ban it?  Really?

[Boris]

It would also appear that it was the Labour Party, The Greens and the LibDems that voted for the ban.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36422083

 

Your slur on the SNP looking a bit shaky there!

 

Still, your Tory chums voted for it.

 

The above, of course led to this https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/scottish-government-bans-fracking-scotland-paul-wheelhouse

 

Where the Scottisg Govt listened to public consultation and banned it.

 

A Govt listening to the people?  Nah, just populism...

 

You seem to damn them if they do (fracking) and damn them (and us, by voting Tory ) if they don't (indy ref2).

[deesidejambo]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So fracking in Scotland is simply an SNP conspiracy put out there, so they can then ban it?  Really?

Yes.

 

They didn't invent it - it is a known technology but it is convenient to ban it as they think they will get support from those who dont understand it.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

Yes.

 

They didn't invent it - it is a known technology but it is convenient to ban it as they think they will get support from those who dont understand it.

 

FFS

 

[deesidejambo]

27 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

FFS

 

Yawn.

 

You support importing frac gas from the US in the knowledge that it often comes from underneath populated areas?  So its OK in your view for American citizens to be exposed to risk so that Scotland can profit.

 

Some Socialist you.