Entitlement and Negativity

[Walter Kidd]

I would say we are entitled to moan given the DOF position allegedly putting in a style of football and coaching which would have us challenging Celtic in five years. Not happening is it?

 

Sent from my A3-A40 using Tapatalk

[i wish jj was my dad]

For some perhaps. For many others, Robbie's biggest failure was Ann Budge launching the bigots.

spot on, sir.

 

The other issue is the obsession with LEVEIN aka Dr Evil.

[Bazzas right boot]

tolcross lad, I fully accept that we have fallen way short on the playing side and that is something I highlighted at the start of my previous post. The key point of your post is use of the term "fundamental problem", which is interesting because our problems have been 'fundamental'; that is, if we define the term 'fundamental' as 'a principle on which something is based'.

 

Specifically, that principle had been set by Levein in 2014, with our moneyball transfer strategy; buying in cheaper, often foreign 'talent', in the hope to out-fox our natural competition on the park, and then selling players off for a profit, off it. That game plan worked in 2014/15, and it even worked to a degree in 2015/16, the Hibs cup tie aside. But it stopped working because...fundamentally, the strategy was flawed. How do we know it was flawed? Because we lacked team spirit, the results were poor and nobody was paying money for the players we brought in, Osman Sow, aside. More so, most of the players we brought in have since left. Of the 14 players who made their debut for Hearts in season 2015/16, only four (Souttar, Cowie, Zanatta & Djoum) are still with the club. It's not just scatter gun: it's a revolving door.

 

There has been another factor too in all of this too. Aberdeen and Hibs, our two closest rivals in terms of size and stature have both flourished at a time when we have, to a degree, floundered. We've watched as Hibs have progressed into the latter stages of almost every domestic cup competition they've entered, as well as ending their Scottish Cup hoodoo. They finally won promotion. They've bought well in the summer and they look a strong side going into the new season. Aberdeen have been the best of the rest for the last three years now and again, have hoovered up the best 'realistic' player targets this summer, the sort WE should be hoping to bring to Tynecastle. Now some people will dismiss all that, but our rivals' performance is a reflection of where we are as a club. If they're doing good, then why aren't we?...is a natural question football fans ask.

 

But here's where I see hope. Things can change. Lessons can be learned.

 

Levein has seen his guy, Ian Cathro get the bullet. And if Cathro was Levein's guy, then that makes Levein accountable at some stage. He has now witnessed his first, true failure as DoF. He must learn to adapt and accept that his fundamental principles of moneyball transfer strategies and allowing untried head coaches to manage are at best, risky, and at worst: flawed.

 

We've since seen with the signings of Laffery and Berra that good, solid signings can happen, and we know these two players attracted interest from Hibs and even Rangers. But it's to Aberdeen that we have to look in order to see the best model in how to build a good football team. They've been doing it for several years now. Yet as consistent as Aberdeen have been, they have a big, big matter to deal with in the near future which will shape and define them as a club going forward. Moving stadium will cost them millions of pounds, and flitting five miles out of town will either make them or break them as a club.

 

But if Hearts, or should I say, if Levein can learn his lesson, and appoint the right head coach, who will in turn cement the correct transfer strategy, then good times will return ON the pitch. I am confident that we'll get there because I can see the narrative panning out. To be fair to Levein, when he came back to Hearts in 2014, it really was the year dot for the club, despite having staved off liquidation. Everything, but the very history of the club had to start again. We needed to get back to the Premiership. We had a "crumbling" main stand. Our place at Riccarton was under threat. Our academy was decimated. For all his faults, Levein has played a big part in our re-birth, and still has a big part to play as long as he is willing to adapt and to change.

 

Building this stand has taken a toll on the playing side. It was a major hurdle to over come, but we will overcome it. It is almost ready. And when it's ready, it will be ready for ever. Then we will have a home fit for a good team, and the extra money the new stand generates will help build a better team going forward. Everything will then be about the team, and improving it. I mention Aberdeen because as they still have to make their transition, ours is almost complete.

 

But I don't want Hearts to be as good as Aberdeen or Hibs. I want us to be better, much better. Be in no doubt, we are a bigger club than Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

And we can be better than them, if we get the fundamentals right.

Yip.

 

This has kept me sane through the last 7 months, there is a. Big picture and you succulently describe it.

 

However, we do need some sort of short term improvement, Levien has as reputation on the line now, a good manager and even 2/3 signings will keep us competitive and then we can really kick on once the stand is built.

[Bowmans_Boot]

The last six months have been poor and we have started poorly this year ( LC).

 

A wee moan is expected as we should be doing better.

 

However, the moaning under Neilson was embarrassing and the way we jump on some players backs so quickly is cringey as hell.

Give it a break about Robbie, every single thread...... He was supported very well by about 99% of Hearts fans.

[Bazzas right boot]

I would say we are entitled to moan given the DOF position allegedly putting in a style of football and coaching which would have us challenging Celtic in five years. Not happening is it?

 

Sent from my A3-A40 using Tapatalk

Ranger's won't be challenging Celtic in five years, we have little hope of doing that. Aberdeen are the target ATM.

[Kendoll]

tolcross lad, I fully accept that we have fallen way short on the playing side and that is something I highlighted at the start of my previous post. The key point of your post is use of the term "fundamental problem", which is interesting because our problems have been 'fundamental'; that is, if we define the term 'fundamental' as 'a principle on which something is based'.

 

Specifically, that principle had been set by Levein in 2014, with our moneyball transfer strategy; buying in cheaper, often foreign 'talent', in the hope to out-fox our natural competition on the park, and then selling players off for a profit, off it. That game plan worked in 2014/15, and it even worked to a degree in 2015/16, the Hibs cup tie aside. But it stopped working because...fundamentally, the strategy was flawed. How do we know it was flawed? Because we lacked team spirit, the results were poor and nobody was paying money for the players we brought in, Osman Sow, aside. More so, most of the players we brought in have since left. Of the 14 players who made their debut for Hearts in season 2015/16, only four (Souttar, Cowie, Zanatta & Djoum) are still with the club. It's not just scatter gun: it's a revolving door.

 

There has been another factor too in all of this too. Aberdeen and Hibs, our two closest rivals in terms of size and stature have both flourished at a time when we have, to a degree, floundered. We've watched as Hibs have progressed into the latter stages of almost every domestic cup competition they've entered, as well as ending their Scottish Cup hoodoo. They finally won promotion. They've bought well in the summer and they look a strong side going into the new season. Aberdeen have been the best of the rest for the last three years now and again, have hoovered up the best 'realistic' player targets this summer, the sort WE should be hoping to bring to Tynecastle. Now some people will dismiss all that, but our rivals' performance is a reflection of where we are as a club. If they're doing good, then why aren't we?...is a natural question football fans ask.

 

But here's where I see hope. Things can change. Lessons can be learned.

 

Levein has seen his guy, Ian Cathro get the bullet. And if Cathro was Levein's guy, then that makes Levein accountable at some stage. He has now witnessed his first, true failure as DoF. He must learn to adapt and accept that his fundamental principles of moneyball transfer strategies and allowing untried head coaches to manage are at best, risky, and at worst: flawed.

 

We've since seen with the signings of Laffery and Berra that good, solid signings can happen, and we know these two players attracted interest from Hibs and even Rangers. But it's to Aberdeen that we have to look in order to see the best model in how to build a good football team. They've been doing it for several years now. Yet as consistent as Aberdeen have been, they have a big, big matter to deal with in the near future which will shape and define them as a club going forward. Moving stadium will cost them millions of pounds, and flitting five miles out of town will either make them or break them as a club.

 

But if Hearts, or should I say, if Levein can learn his lesson, and appoint the right head coach, who will in turn cement the correct transfer strategy, then good times will return ON the pitch. I am confident that we'll get there because I can see the narrative panning out. To be fair to Levein, when he came back to Hearts in 2014, it really was the year dot for the club, despite having staved off liquidation. Everything, but the very history of the club had to start again. We needed to get back to the Premiership. We had a "crumbling" main stand. Our place at Riccarton was under threat. Our academy was decimated. For all his faults, Levein has played a big part in our re-birth, and still has a big part to play as long as he is willing to adapt and to change.

 

Building this stand has taken a toll on the playing side. It was a major hurdle to over come, but we will overcome it. It is almost ready. And when it's ready, it will be ready for ever. Then we will have a home fit for a good team, and the extra money the new stand generates will help build a better team going forward. Everything will then be about the team, and improving it. I mention Aberdeen because as they still have to make their transition, ours is almost complete.

 

But I don't want Hearts to be as good as Aberdeen or Hibs. I want us to be better, much better. Be in no doubt, we are a bigger club than Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

And we can be better than them, if we get the fundamentals right.

Superb post.

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Hearts_fan]

Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition.

 

The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner.

 

Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display.

 

Well said.

 

I wasn't able to follow the football at all yesterday and came on here last night hoping to find some sort of joy about us winning away from home.

 

However, the board was awash with negative thread titles nitpicking about some element of HMFC, and I couldn't see one positive title relating to the result.

 

Some people are just in a totally negative mindset, paranoid that we're somehow getting screwed from within.

 

Desperate times indeed.

[Bazzas right boot]

Give it a break about Robbie, every single thread...... He was supported very well by about 99% of Hearts fans.

Aye, it was still embarrassing, the plane stunt the cherry on that particular cake.

 

It's a thread about entitlement and negativity, very relevant.the treatment of Robbie highlights that we were a tad entitled and negative.

 

The last seven months have been poor and deserve to be questioned.

 

So kindly sit down, I'll use examples that are on topic if I want to. Also in the context of my post I was making a different point, we are entitled to moan a bit as recently we've been poor.

 

You see Robbie and break out in a sweat then start battering your keyboard like a ginger that is green. Strange.

[Hearts_fan]

I think he's absolutely spot on regarding some fans.

 

Totally agree with you here!

[Bull's-eye]

You have to admit though, watching people losing their Shit over a football match is massively entertaining.

 

This place for a start would be guff without the tears the snotters.

[busby1985]

The "moneyball" approach to recruitment has seen the core of our squad drop drastically in quality. The gamble on Cathro and the unprecedented media smear campaign against him coupled with some really poor results have us always one result away from implosion. Getting rid of Cathro solves one half of that problem, keeping Levein keeps half the problem firmly alive. Lose next Saturday, which we have done plenty times before, and people will be calling for Levein to go again. Levein is now a poison within our support. He will always cause divide and for me and for the greater good, IMO, he needs to step aside. What incentive do the players have to perform when they know it won't be them that carries the can, it'll be Cathro (at the time) or Levein. We had issues with the foreign lads last campaign and the 1st campaign back in the premier league. We'd got rid of the "characters" in the dressing room in Keatings, Eck, Wilson and the likes and replaced them with similar quality or in some cases lesser quality players and that broke the team spirit. You saw it weekly with Paterson and Juanma constantly arguing or disagreeing with each other. This season we have tried to go a more conventional "British" approach to recruitment that with a strong manager could be great for us. Our identity on and off the pitch has changed dramatically and we need that core and spine back. Hibs fought back yesterday and won, quiet literally fought back. They got tore into Rangers, something we used to be famed for. They struggled to match Rangers first 15 so thought, if we can't pass round them, kick round them and they started winning their individual battles, something we struggle with. Cowie/Prince vs McGinn, their is only one winner there and he isn't wearing Maroon. Cowie/Prince vs Bartley, same outcome. That's the area of the park that dictates everything. It sets the example and its powder puff for us. We need a statement signing for that engine room. We also need a commanding keeper but everyone knows that. We need some heart back, yesterday was a good example that we are learning and trying to get that back. We would've drawn that game last season.

[Bowmans_Boot]

Aye, it was still embarrassing, the plane stunt the cherry on that particular cake.

 

It's a thread about entitlement and negativity, very relevant.the treatment of Robbie highlights that we were a tad entitled and negative.

 

The last seven months have been poor and deserve to be questioned.

 

So kindly sit down, I'll use examples that are on topic if I want to. Also in the context of my post I was making a different point, we are entitled to moan a bit as recently we've been poor.

 

You see Robbie and break out in a sweat then start battering your keyboard like a ginger that is green. Strange.

The only person who gets super excited about Robbie is you, Tosh. Im not really bothered about him now.

 

I thought he was superb the first year and decent thereafter. He was very good at beating the lesser teams at home, not so great in big games.

[Bowmans_Boot]

The "moneyball" approach to recruitment has seen the core of our squad drop drastically in quality. The gamble on Cathro and the unprecedented media smear campaign against him coupled with some really poor results have us always one result away from implosion. Getting rid of Cathro solves one half of that problem, keeping Levein keeps half the problem firmly alive. Lose next Saturday, which we have done plenty times before, and people will be calling for Levein to go again. Levein is now a poison within our support. He will always cause divide and for me and for the greater good, IMO, he needs to step aside. What incentive do the players have to perform when they know it won't be them that carries the can, it'll be Cathro (at the time) or Levein. We had issues with the foreign lads last campaign and the 1st campaign back in the premier league. We'd got rid of the "characters" in the dressing room in Keatings, Eck, Wilson and the likes and replaced them with similar quality or in some cases lesser quality players and that broke the team spirit. You saw it weekly with Paterson and Juanma constantly arguing or disagreeing with each other. This season we have tried to go a more conventional "British" approach to recruitment that with a strong manager could be great for us. Our identity on and off the pitch has changed dramatically and we need that core and spine back. Hibs fought back yesterday and won, quiet literally fought back. They got tore into Rangers, something we used to be famed for. They struggled to match Rangers first 15 so thought, if we can't pass round them, kick round them and they started winning their individual battles, something we struggle with. Cowie/Prince vs McGinn, their is only one winner there and he isn't wearing Maroon. Cowie/Prince vs Bartley, same outcome. That's the area of the park that dictates everything. It sets the example and its powder puff for us. We need a statement signing for that engine room. We also need a commanding keeper but everyone knows that. We need some heart back, yesterday was a good example that we are learning and trying to get that back. We would've drawn that game last season.

Excellent post.

[Heartsofgold]

tolcross lad, I fully accept that we have fallen way short on the playing side and that is something I highlighted at the start of my previous post. The key point of your post is use of the term "fundamental problem", which is interesting because our problems have been 'fundamental'; that is, if we define the term 'fundamental' as 'a principle on which something is based'.

 

Specifically, that principle had been set by Levein in 2014, with our moneyball transfer strategy; buying in cheaper, often foreign 'talent', in the hope to out-fox our natural competition on the park, and then selling players off for a profit, off it. That game plan worked in 2014/15, and it even worked to a degree in 2015/16, the Hibs cup tie aside. But it stopped working because...fundamentally, the strategy was flawed. How do we know it was flawed? Because we lacked team spirit, the results were poor and nobody was paying money for the players we brought in, Osman Sow, aside. More so, most of the players we brought in have since left. Of the 14 players who made their debut for Hearts in season 2015/16, only four (Souttar, Cowie, Zanatta & Djoum) are still with the club. It's not just scatter gun: it's a revolving door.

 

There has been another factor too in all of this too. Aberdeen and Hibs, our two closest rivals in terms of size and stature have both flourished at a time when we have, to a degree, floundered. We've watched as Hibs have progressed into the latter stages of almost every domestic cup competition they've entered, as well as ending their Scottish Cup hoodoo. They finally won promotion. They've bought well in the summer and they look a strong side going into the new season. Aberdeen have been the best of the rest for the last three years now and again, have hoovered up the best 'realistic' player targets this summer, the sort WE should be hoping to bring to Tynecastle. Now some people will dismiss all that, but our rivals' performance is a reflection of where we are as a club. If they're doing good, then why aren't we?...is a natural question football fans ask.

 

But here's where I see hope. Things can change. Lessons can be learned.

 

Levein has seen his guy, Ian Cathro get the bullet. And if Cathro was Levein's guy, then that makes Levein accountable at some stage. He has now witnessed his first, true failure as DoF. He must learn to adapt and accept that his fundamental principles of moneyball transfer strategies and allowing untried head coaches to manage are at best, risky, and at worst: flawed.

 

We've since seen with the signings of Laffery and Berra that good, solid signings can happen, and we know these two players attracted interest from Hibs and even Rangers. But it's to Aberdeen that we have to look in order to see the best model in how to build a good football team. They've been doing it for several years now. Yet as consistent as Aberdeen have been, they have a big, big matter to deal with in the near future which will shape and define them as a club going forward. Moving stadium will cost them millions of pounds, and flitting five miles out of town will either make them or break them as a club.

 

But if Hearts, or should I say, if Levein can learn his lesson, and appoint the right head coach, who will in turn cement the correct transfer strategy, then good times will return ON the pitch. I am confident that we'll get there because I can see the narrative panning out. To be fair to Levein, when he came back to Hearts in 2014, it really was the year dot for the club, despite having staved off liquidation. Everything, but the very history of the club had to start again. We needed to get back to the Premiership. We had a "crumbling" main stand. Our place at Riccarton was under threat. Our academy was decimated. For all his faults, Levein has played a big part in our re-birth, and still has a big part to play as long as he is willing to adapt and to change.

 

Building this stand has taken a toll on the playing side. It was a major hurdle to over come, but we will overcome it. It is almost ready. And when it's ready, it will be ready for ever. Then we will have a home fit for a good team, and the extra money the new stand generates will help build a better team going forward. Everything will then be about the team, and improving it. I mention Aberdeen because as they still have to make their transition, ours is almost complete.

 

But I don't want Hearts to be as good as Aberdeen or Hibs. I want us to be better, much better. Be in no doubt, we are a bigger club than Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

And we can be better than them, if we get the fundamentals right.

BB post of the year so far. This post could have been written by me as it answers everything I've been thinking and feeling about the club for years. We are trying to complete a massive capital project that will seat the club for years to come if it's properly run and marketed. This outlay has meant we can't compete with some of our closest rivals but soon we will and we will surpass them.

[jambopilms]

We should demand success is bollox. That's why people support the old firm. We should be a support that supports our team no matter what. Any one who won't accept us having shit seasons here and there haven't got a realistic grasp of hearts as a club or hasn't been supporting for long. ****ing support your team as it affect the team and it affect the atmosphere in the ground. Fannys.

[Deevers]

Nothing wrong with having high standards and demanding the best effort/performance. All winners act this way. Losers sit back and accept lower standards.

Hearts are a big club, we should demand success.

This 100% for me.

[Romulus]

Agree to an extent. Certainly on the playing side of things improvements were/are clearly necessary. One thing for sure is this forum is full of trolls or hibs fans. After yesterday's match, in which we finally showed all the things we had been missing in battling and grinding out a win, there were threads on wishing we were hibs and slagging at least 3 individual players. I refuse to believe any true Hearts fan can have any complaints about our first away win in 6 months especially in current circumstances.

 

In terms of the stand, I think folk need to realise it's a dream come true to be staying at Tynecastle, the new stand will be ours forever. This sense of entitlement is embarrassing from guys who obviously don't know how close we have been to losing everything.

[alex young hero]

As a boy I used to stand in the terracing at the school end behind the goals as I liked seeing the ball hitting the net, there were a couple of old guys who moaned for the the best part of the games it did`nt matter who we were playing or what the score was ,the season was 1957-58 record amount of goals scored and the league won at a canter.Negativity and Hearts supporters we invented it.

[David McCaig]

The prequel to that was Aberdeen destroying us 3-1 at home.

 

Up to that point Neilson had adopted the second tier style of play in the top flight and it worked. Then we collectively shat ourselves at one reversal. We became more defensive. Wingers were eschewed for central midfielders and becoming "hard to beat" was the priority.

 

Ho hum.

The irony is that whilst we were blown away in the First Half, we were comfortably the better side in the 2nd Half of that match.

[Thought Police]

I'm all for demanding success, but I also feel that the high demands have hindered the way the fans have back the players from the stands for the past two seasons.

 

We can't just say we're a great support due to monthly pledges.

[51john51]

Can't help thinking that some of the people who are complaining about negativity are the same ones who kept seeing positives in Cathro until the very last minute, and thus assisted in keeping him here longer and making the mess worse.

 

I don't see it as negative at all, I simply see it as people wanting to make us better. There is also the backdrop of the disastrous last 6 months of awful play and terrible signing policy which is going to take a while to clear everyone's system.

 

I personally left the game yesterday on a high, but with the nagging thought that we could easily have been so much better.

 

We are only about 3 players and some pace away from having a team that is more than able to compete with anyone.

 

We are nearly there, this is not the time to settle for second best.

[Francis Albert]

The first season I remember clearly was 1964/65. In the fifty odd years since, that remains the peak of our fans' "negativity" and "entitlement" if you want to call it that, or "expectation" and "ambition" as I would say. Within one goal of winning the title but a poor team compared to the team that preceded it. The 7-1 home defeat to Dundee sticks out in the memory, as does our feeble performance in the title decider. Such was the "negativity" that a third of our regular suppport disappeared overnight.

 

"Negativity" has prevailed for the great majority of seasons I have followed Hearts, and with good reason. The same applies to most clubs because most teams don't meet their fans expectations most of the time.

 

It is this odd cult of "positivity" that is new.

[Nelly Terraces]

Wanting my team to win but they're utterly shite & get a bit cheesed off about it.

 

'CENSE OV INTITELMENTT!!'

[soonbe110]

The "moneyball" approach to recruitment has seen the core of our squad drop drastically in quality. The gamble on Cathro and the unprecedented media smear campaign against him coupled with some really poor results have us always one result away from implosion. Getting rid of Cathro solves one half of that problem, keeping Levein keeps half the problem firmly alive. Lose next Saturday, which we have done plenty times before, and people will be calling for Levein to go again. Levein is now a poison within our support. He will always cause divide and for me and for the greater good, IMO, he needs to step aside. What incentive do the players have to perform when they know it won't be them that carries the can, it'll be Cathro (at the time) or Levein. We had issues with the foreign lads last campaign and the 1st campaign back in the premier league. We'd got rid of the "characters" in the dressing room in Keatings, Eck, Wilson and the likes and replaced them with similar quality or in some cases lesser quality players and that broke the team spirit. You saw it weekly with Paterson and Juanma constantly arguing or disagreeing with each other. This season we have tried to go a more conventional "British" approach to recruitment that with a strong manager could be great for us. Our identity on and off the pitch has changed dramatically and we need that core and spine back. Hibs fought back yesterday and won, quiet literally fought back. They got tore into Rangers, something we used to be famed for. They struggled to match Rangers first 15 so thought, if we can't pass round them, kick round them and they started winning their individual battles, something we struggle with. Cowie/Prince vs McGinn, their is only one winner there and he isn't wearing Maroon. Cowie/Prince vs Bartley, same outcome. That's the area of the park that dictates everything. It sets the example and its powder puff for us. We need a statement signing for that engine room. We also need a commanding keeper but everyone knows that. We need some heart back, yesterday was a good example that we are learning and trying to get that back. We would've drawn that game last season.

This is similar to the Robbie out campaign and look where that's got us. Leveins positives for far are far in excess of his negatives. I accept the Cathro appointment didn't work however 90% of this forum were wetting themselves over his appointment in December. I accept that the January 17 transfer window didn't work big time regardless of whose picked the players. Maybe Levein maybe not. However since we came out of Admin the Budge/Levein team have many positives. Promotion, 3rd Place, academy being rebuilt, new main stand on the way. Anyone who believes a couple of failures are not way more offset by those positives really needs to have a think.

It was never going to be a journey without bumps in the road. It never has been if you are a Hearts, or indeed, football fan. The long-term winners are the ones that stay positive and enjoy the good and laugh at the bad.

[Thought Police]

Wanting my team to win but they're utterly shite & get a bit cheesed off about it.

 

'CENSE OV INTITELMENTT!!'

Too many people getting hung up on this. Yes, they're terrible now. The OP was referring to the past three years when even when we were consistently winning at home folk were still fuming.

[Des Lynam]

We are no more negative about our club than other fans of their club.

 

We are having a tough time on the park but that will be rectified in due course. As BB said everything is geared for success in the future.

 

Some need to stop repeatedly going on about Neilson and Cathro. It's in the past and we should look forward to a new manager and Tynie being louder than ever!

[JamboAl]

The amazing thing about these wonderful (supposedly constructive) critical comments is they are absolutely brilliant in theory.  It is easy with hindsight to look back and say what we should have been done and what we shouldn't.  What has to be remembered is that after admin we came from a standing start and a 5 year plan which might turn out to be a noose CL will hang himself from.  However everyone needs to have something to aim for and sometimes oppositions can trump your cards.  Other clubs are not standing still waiting for us to overtake them.  We are not blessed with unlimited funds and we are also trying to build a new stand fit for the future.  That could prove to be a minor criticism in that we may have tried to do too much too soon but those those having doubts should just wind back to the last of the Robinson days when we were in danger of moving from Tynie.

Things are not going as well as we all would like but we are still at Tynie and not languishing in the 4th tier.  I would have settled for that on Budgement day.  Despite recent results we now have a solid foundation to build on and the next appointment could well be the catalyst we need.

[Rudy T]

The sense of entitlement has nothing to do with Hearts and all to do with Hibs. Ever since we lost to them and they went on to win the Scottish Cup this boring negative shite has started.

 

Last week we had threads about us being certainty for relegation, then folk are in a rage because it's taken so long to appoint a new manger but in the same thread give it large about how CL has to get it right or he should sacked, then we win away from home on a shite pitch and that still isn't good enough for some, add in it was a battling performance not short of character another thing posters have demanded.

 

But the most telling factor is how many Hibs are better than us posts...Who ****in cares if they are or are not! The bottom line is we are about to appoint a new manager, OUR team has just won away from home and there's still 2 weeks to bring in new players and a new stand is almost delivered.

 

We got it wrong with Cathro and undoubtedly its cost us and we've slipped back a bit but we're on our way back. We have good players despite what the doom merchants will tell everyone. And we will continue to get better and once we're settled with a manager and back at Tynie with a complete and fit squad we'll be back up the league....won't be good enough for some though.

[redm]

I'm struggling a bit with the effect of the angry people right now. Feels a lot like struggle and angst and an adversarial approach are very much part and parcel of 'doing football' for a reasonably small but vocal part of our support. They have to be hating someone or angry with someone, it's where they get their oomph from. The seethe. Factions and fighting against something, having an internal enemy of some sort. If it was just restricted to actual games it wouldn't be so bad but it creeps over the internet and the media pick up on it and respond to it, and acknowledgement often makes it worse, and the cycle continues. People getting carried away with it all. It sucks the life out of you and puts people on a downer, tainting things and making everything feel a bit less fun. Fairly sure we're supposed to enjoy this, but sometimes you wonder. Then the people who spend 24/7 relentlessly sucking the life and optimism out of you are often the same ones who demand to know why you aren't "up for it" or "why don't you sing more?". Heck. 

 

A bit of a stream of consciousness but that's the only/best way I can describe it. 

[JamboJen]

I totally agree with this. No matter who pulls on the Hearts colour gets my support 100% but some people just can't back the team. It's baffling.

 

Ironically I could understand Walker getting abuse (wouldn't agree with it) yet he is treated like a hero.

If our fans gave the rest of the players even half the reception Walker got yesterday the atmosphere at matches would be completely different. We have quite a baffling set of fans. I agree with the OP but also wholeheartedly with Buffalo Bill's excellent post.

[redm]

Also, BB, that post is a belter.

[emoji106]

[Pants Shaton]

Great post by BB.

 

We're bigger than Hibs and Aberdeen now and have the potential to be far bigger. Let's see that happen.

[Danny Wilde]

Our sense of entitlement is simply that we should be at least as well run as Aberdeen, Hibs, and St.Johnstone on the coaching/playing side. We've pissed away 2 SPL seasons since promotion (and probably the current season) allowing all these teams to get ahead of us. We are 100% entitled to expect better and for the club to take steps to address that gap ASAP.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Our sense of entitlement is simply that we should be at least as well run as Aberdeen, Hibs, and St.Johnstone on the coaching/playing side. We've pissed away 2 SPL seasons since promotion (and probably the current season) allowing all these teams to get ahead of us. We are 100% entitled to expect better and for the club to take steps to address that gap ASAP.

Is the right answer.

 

Unfortunately, this makes some uncomfortable when they read it.

[Paolo]

We, as supporters of Heart of Midlothian FC, should expect to win the vast majority of games we play.

We should. Expecting to beat the likes of Partick, Dundee, Hamilton and your lower league sides is not a sense of entitlement.

[johnthomas]

This is similar to the Robbie out campaign and look where that's got us. Leveins positives for far are far in excess of his negatives. I accept the Cathro appointment didn't work however 90% of this forum were wetting themselves over his appointment in December. I accept that the January 17 transfer window didn't work big time regardless of whose picked the players. Maybe Levein maybe not. However since we came out of Admin the Budge/Levein team have many positives. Promotion, 3rd Place, academy being rebuilt, new main stand on the way. Anyone who believes a couple of failures are not way more offset by those positives really needs to have a think.

It was never going to be a journey without bumps in the road. It never has been if you are a Hearts, or indeed, football fan. The long-term winners are the ones that stay positive and enjoy the good and laugh at the bad.

Spot on , along with BB's post maybe there is hope we have a predominantly , optimistic , realistic support .

Avowed Hearts fans involved in the media have , I think , a lot to answer for . There was some , apparently informed , comments on our structure yesterday by Tom English etc . Hopefully the negative ones amongst us will have listened to this with an open mind .

Craig Levein is Hearts through and through . He is singleminded , stubborn and arrogant and that has worked for us , mostly .

We are getting there .

[davemclaren]

Is the right answer.

 

Unfortunately, this makes some uncomfortable when they read it.

We certainly went backwards last season but I don't think anyone would disagree that we should, at least, be on a par with Aberdeen and Hibs ( two similar sized teams ) and often better than them. Not sure why anyone would be uncomfortable with that.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

We certainly went backwards last season but I don't think anyone would disagree that we should, at least, be on a par with Aberdeen and Hibs ( two similar sized teams ) and often better than them. Not sure why anyone would be uncomfortable with that.

Did you read redm's "stream of consciousness"?

[davemclaren]

Did you read redm's "stream of consciousness"?

I took it to be more about the salemisation of Levein, but I could be wrong.

[tcjambo]

Pretty much everything was going swimmingly until the 2016 cup game against Hibs. We were fairly confident of turning them over and sending them into financial meltdown. The sale of Sow  with a clause that he could play in the Cup game was one we announced to all and sundry. We taunted Hibs we might play him but we lost our nerve by not putting him on the bench. When the Penguin scored his fluky header or even before that, had Sow being playing, Hibs would have had a diificult decision to make - push forward and risk the fastest player in the SPL to take on their ponderous defenders in a sprint for balls over the top or pull defenders back. We never gave ourseleves that outlet and the rest is history. Of all the decsions our management took this is the one I most blame CL for and I count myself as one of his strongest supporters.

[Francis Albert]

I'm struggling a bit with the effect of the angry people right now. Feels a lot like struggle and angst and an adversarial approach are very much part and parcel of 'doing football' for a reasonably small but vocal part of our support. They have to be hating someone or angry with someone, it's where they get their oomph from. The seethe. Factions and fighting against something, having an internal enemy of some sort. If it was just restricted to actual games it wouldn't be so bad but it creeps over the internet and the media pick up on it and respond to it, and acknowledgement often makes it worse, and the cycle continues. People getting carried away with it all. It sucks the life out of you and puts people on a downer, tainting things and making everything feel a bit less fun. Fairly sure we're supposed to enjoy this, but sometimes you wonder. Then the people who spend 24/7 relentlessly sucking the life and optimism out of you are often the same ones who demand to know why you aren't "up for it" or "why don't you sing more?". Heck. 

 

A bit of a stream of consciousness but that's the only/best way I can describe it.

How long have you been going football matches? There is always a substantial minority of fans who are angry most of the time, a minority that can often turn into a majority with even mild provocation.

 

And it is not a specifically Hearts phenomenon. I only listened to Hearts TV commentary yesterday but the anger and "entitlement" of the Killie fans came across loud and clear because they were losing to Hearts (a significantly bigger club) for the first time in years. And read Nick Hornby on going to Highbury the first time. The thing that struck him most was how angry so many around him were.

[ducatiboy]

tolcross lad, I fully accept that we have fallen way short on the playing side and that is something I highlighted at the start of my previous post. The key point of your post is use of the term "fundamental problem", which is interesting because our problems have been 'fundamental'; that is, if we define the term 'fundamental' as 'a principle on which something is based'.

 

Specifically, that principle had been set by Levein in 2014, with our moneyball transfer strategy; buying in cheaper, often foreign 'talent', in the hope to out-fox our natural competition on the park, and then selling players off for a profit, off it. That game plan worked in 2014/15, and it even worked to a degree in 2015/16, the Hibs cup tie aside. But it stopped working because...fundamentally, the strategy was flawed. How do we know it was flawed? Because we lacked team spirit, the results were poor and nobody was paying money for the players we brought in, Osman Sow, aside. More so, most of the players we brought in have since left. Of the 14 players who made their debut for Hearts in season 2015/16, only four (Souttar, Cowie, Zanatta & Djoum) are still with the club. It's not just scatter gun: it's a revolving door.

 

There has been another factor too in all of this too. Aberdeen and Hibs, our two closest rivals in terms of size and stature have both flourished at a time when we have, to a degree, floundered. We've watched as Hibs have progressed into the latter stages of almost every domestic cup competition they've entered, as well as ending their Scottish Cup hoodoo. They finally won promotion. They've bought well in the summer and they look a strong side going into the new season. Aberdeen have been the best of the rest for the last three years now and again, have hoovered up the best 'realistic' player targets this summer, the sort WE should be hoping to bring to Tynecastle. Now some people will dismiss all that, but our rivals' performance is a reflection of where we are as a club. If they're doing good, then why aren't we?...is a natural question football fans ask.

 

But here's where I see hope. Things can change. Lessons can be learned.

 

Levein has seen his guy, Ian Cathro get the bullet. And if Cathro was Levein's guy, then that makes Levein accountable at some stage. He has now witnessed his first, true failure as DoF. He must learn to adapt and accept that his fundamental principles of moneyball transfer strategies and allowing untried head coaches to manage are at best, risky, and at worst: flawed.  

 

We've since seen with the signings of Laffery and Berra that good, solid signings can happen, and we know these two players attracted interest from Hibs and even Rangers. But it's to Aberdeen that we have to look in order to see the best model in how to build a good football team. They've been doing it for several years now. Yet as consistent as Aberdeen have been, they have a big, big matter to deal with in the near future which will shape and define them as a club going forward. Moving stadium will cost them millions of pounds, and flitting five miles out of town will either make them or break them as a club. 

 

But if Hearts, or should I say, if Levein can learn his lesson, and appoint the right head coach, who will in turn cement the correct transfer strategy, then good times will return ON the pitch. I am confident that we'll get there because I can see the narrative panning out. To be fair to Levein, when he came back to Hearts in 2014, it really was the year dot for the club, despite having staved off liquidation. Everything, but the very history of the club had to start again. We needed to get back to the Premiership. We had a "crumbling" main stand. Our place at Riccarton was under threat. Our academy was decimated. For all his faults, Levein has played a big part in our re-birth, and still has a big part to play as long as he is willing to adapt and to change.

 

Building this stand has taken a toll on the playing side. It was a major hurdle to over come, but we will overcome it. It is almost ready. And when it's ready, it will be ready for ever. Then we will have a home fit for a good team, and the extra money the new stand generates will help build a better team going forward. Everything will then be about the team, and improving it. I mention Aberdeen because as they still have to make their transition, ours is almost complete.

 

But I don't want Hearts to be as good as Aberdeen or Hibs. I want us to be better, much better. Be in no doubt, we are a bigger club than Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

And we can be better than them, if we get the fundamentals right.

Great well written post! I for one would like us to ditch this 'Come sign for us and move to a bigger club slogan' we are selling to players, come play in maroon WE are a big club. Should be the marketing spin!!

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

Wanting my team to win but they're utterly shite & get a bit cheesed off about it.

 

'CENSE OV INTITELMENTT!!'

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

You absolutely can NOT use Aberdeen as the benchmark when we spend far far less.

 

So for all the wonderful theories they are currently outspending us quite spectacularly.

 

People should realise it and refrain to comparing.

 

The smaller attendance is irrelevant

[socrates82]

You absolutely can NOT use Aberdeen as the benchmark when we spend far far less.

 

So for all the wonderful theories they are currently outspending us quite spectacularly.

 

People should realise it and refrain to comparing.

 

The smaller attendance is irrelevant

 

They're a measure in that eventually we will be above them in every way as we were before Romanov, admin, etc. They have a head start though so I agree we have got back to pretty much where we should be but underachieved last season in terms of league position, even with the extenuating circumstances.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

They're a measure in that eventually we will be above them in every way as we were before Romanov, admin, etc. They have a head start though so I agree we have got back to pretty much where we should be but underachieved last season in terms of league position, even with the extenuating circumstances.

50 percent extra last season. Wouldn't be surprised if that's increased with sale of Hayes another 2nd place 2 cup finals and a fresh investment.

 

We have a mountain to climb to reach their level of spending.

[socrates82]

50 percent extra last season. Wouldn't be surprised if that's increased with sale of Hayes another 2nd place 2 cup finals and a fresh investment.

 

We have a mountain to climb to reach their level of spending.

 

Yeah, they've had it their own way for far too long which made the second half of last season from us so disappointing. 

[Bazzas right boot]

You absolutely can NOT use Aberdeen as the benchmark when we spend far far less.

 

So for all the wonderful theories they are currently outspending us quite spectacularly.

 

People should realise it and refrain to comparing.

 

The smaller attendance is irrelevant

Going forward they are.

 

Our attendances could be around 60/70% higher, that is massive.

 

If not Aberdeen or Celtic , who is the benchmark.

 

Ranger's, at Johnstone,... Hibs?

 

In my mind Aberdeen are the target for us, and we'll catch them.

 

Matter of when, not if.

[Rudy T]

As good as Aberdeen may be they're not exactly packing out the trophy cabinet and they're out of Europe already so I'd rather we aspired to be a lot better than they are at present.

 

Yes they make good signings but they're not exactly inspired signings which will take them to the next level they're like for like which gets them 2nd in the league...and that's it.

 

So many have criticised our own DoF for his managerial performance which is basically equivalent to what Aberdeen are doing now but his European record is better than McInnes' yet we have people fawning over Aberdeen and their signings.

 

While we may be a bit off them at the moment we will not be replicating their model of solid if unspectacular signings ...which is also hibs policy and many others (relative to income). We give a large part of our playing budget over to the youth set up which I have no doubt will yield better results for not only less money but a fair chance of profit to allow us to continue to build beyond Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

It's all about patience and supporting the club rather than the collective pissing of pants after every game. Cathro hindered the progress of the first team the right appointment now can accelerate it again and keep us in a good position until the academy bears fruit.

[Bazzas right boot]

As good as Aberdeen may be they're not exactly packing out the trophy cabinet and they're out of Europe already so I'd rather we aspired to be a lot better than they are at present.

 

Yes they make good signings but they're not exactly inspired signings which will take them to the next level they're like for like which gets them 2nd in the league...and that's it.

 

So many have criticised our own DoF for his managerial performance which is basically equivalent to what Aberdeen are doing now but his European record is better than McInnes' yet we have people fawning over Aberdeen and their signings.

 

While we may be a bit off them at the moment we will not be replicating their model of solid if unspectacular signings ...which is also hibs policy and many others (relative to income). We give a large part of our playing budget over to the youth set up which I have no doubt will yield better results for not only less money but a fair chance of profit to allow us to continue to build beyond Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

It's all about patience and supporting the club rather than the collective pissing of pants after every game. Cathro hindered the progress of the first team the right appointment now can accelerate it again and keep us in a good position until the academy bears fruit.

I agree, but the if going in stage's and being realistic Aberdeen are the target ATM.

 

Celtic are a cut above, being second to them would be an improvement for us.

 

It's not beyond the possibility that Celtic could work in several trebles for the next five years, at a guess I'll say they'll take 13/15 trophies at least.

 

Trophies like the late nineties and early 2000's for the rest will be scarce, even more so imo as Celtic are too good. so although trophies is the goal, I'll hold fire on having a pop at a team that is 2nd best.

 

 

Scottish position in Europe has changed I. Ten years, we will do well to get in the final qualifying round, again qualifying regularly like Aberdeen would be a start.

 

So although I ultimately want the best for Hearts, Aberdeen would be a good lace to start and I think we can reach Thier level.

 

Once there, look forward but for me walk before you can run n all that, we are still walking, and slowly ATM.

I agree reference patience.