siegementality Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition. The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner. Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display. Oh FFS stop it with the "entitlement" nonsense. Fans wants to see a bit fight and passion, I think we are entitled to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Aberdeen aren't packing out the trophy cabinet but neither did Hearts in all the years we largely dominated outside the Old Firm. That's not a criticism of my club but the point is I'd rather be where they are just now. I want to be the best but if the best we can do just now is being higher placed than Aberdeen, Hibs etc... then I'll take it. It's what we were accustomed to in the past and gave us our reputation and which rankled with our nearest and dearest rivals who toiled to beat us on the park and in league placings. Reluctantly I have to say the Sheep remind me of what we used to be. Tough, plenty desire and a smattering of ability to make the difference. It's true Cathro stunted first team progress as a previous poster said and that just highlights the necessity to have the right leadership at that level. Hopefully a return to how we used to be(and more hopefully) is not too far away but the management appointment is the big decision that'll influence, or not, whether that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I blame it all on twitter and Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Aberdeen aren't packing out the trophy cabinet but neither did Hearts in all the years we largely dominated outside the Old Firm. That's not a criticism of my club but the point is I'd rather be where they are just now. I want to be the best but if the best we can do just now is being higher placed than Aberdeen, Hibs etc... then I'll take it. It's what we were accustomed to in the past and gave us our reputation and which rankled with our nearest and dearest rivals who toiled to beat us on the park and in league placings. Reluctantly I have to say the Sheep remind me of what we used to be. Tough, plenty desire and a smattering of ability to make the difference. It's true Cathro stunted first team progress as a previous poster said and that just highlights the necessity to have the right leadership at that level. Hopefully a return to how we used to be(and more hopefully) is not too far away but the management appointment is the big decision that'll influence, or not, whether that happens. I'm not so sure we've ever sustained domination of the others...We've always been a tough team to play especially at home but aside from Levein's two 3rds I struggle to think of any other runs we've had as the best of the rest. The point is at the moment most teams outside glasgow are striving to be Aberdeen the signings are similar and the style of play is similar. We are looking outside that model to be better than all of them...benchmarking Aberdeen probably gets you Aberdeen or less it certainly won't propel us above them. We believe the model will take us to the very top and deviating from that model now will only push us back into the pack and yes we'll have the odd good season. If what we're doing works then we'll see us way ahead of the rest and have them aspiring to be Hearts. The like of Lennon and McInnes are not great managers they are astute enough to get the best 'scottish' team their budgets can buy, save in the knowledge that they don't have to win much just keep the team at the top end of the league and a couple of decent cup runs...That's it job done pick up the salary and hope it lasts a few years. I know people will say they'd take that now but it's a evolution for us and when it clicks we'll look back at these shit times and be thankful we didn't get railroaded into following the tired old model. The old firm and especially Celtic right now just rub their hands at the approach the rest have as they know it'll never challenge their dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I'm not so sure we've ever sustained domination of the others...We've always been a tough team to play especially at home but aside from Levein's two 3rds I struggle to think of any other runs we've had as the best of the rest. The point is at the moment most teams outside glasgow are striving to be Aberdeen the signings are similar and the style of play is similar. We are looking outside that model to be better than all of them...benchmarking Aberdeen probably gets you Aberdeen or less it certainly won't propel us above them. We believe the model will take us to the very top and deviating from that model now will only push us back into the pack and yes we'll have the odd good season. If what we're doing works then we'll see us way ahead of the rest and have them aspiring to be Hearts. The like of Lennon and McInnes are not great managers they are astute enough to get the best 'scottish' team their budgets can buy, save in the knowledge that they don't have to win much just keep the team at the top end of the league and a couple of decent cup runs...That's it job done pick up the salary and hope it lasts a few years. I know people will say they'd take that now but it's a evolution for us and when it clicks we'll look back at these shit times and be thankful we didn't get railroaded into following the tired old model. The old firm and especially Celtic right now just rub their hands at the approach the rest have as they know it'll never challenge their dominance. You seem confident that the "model" will bring us this success. What is the evidence you see that suggests it will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition. The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner. Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display. Fug up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition. The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner. Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display. Fug up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I'm not so sure we've ever sustained domination of the others...We've always been a tough team to play especially at home but aside from Levein's two 3rds I struggle to think of any other runs we've had as the best of the rest. The point is at the moment most teams outside glasgow are striving to be Aberdeen the signings are similar and the style of play is similar. We are looking outside that model to be better than all of them...benchmarking Aberdeen probably gets you Aberdeen or less it certainly won't propel us above them. We believe the model will take us to the very top and deviating from that model now will only push us back into the pack and yes we'll have the odd good season. If what we're doing works then we'll see us way ahead of the rest and have them aspiring to be Hearts. The like of Lennon and McInnes are not great managers they are astute enough to get the best 'scottish' team their budgets can buy, save in the knowledge that they don't have to win much just keep the team at the top end of the league and a couple of decent cup runs...That's it job done pick up the salary and hope it lasts a few years. I know people will say they'd take that now but it's a evolution for us and when it clicks we'll look back at these shit times and be thankful we didn't get railroaded into following the tired old model. The old firm and especially Celtic right now just rub their hands at the approach the rest have as they know it'll never challenge their dominance. What is this "model" you speak of? From what I can see we have been in make it up as you go along mode for about 18 months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I blame it all on twitter and Facebook. And JKB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What is this "model" you speak of? From what I can see we have been in make it up as you go along mode for about 18 months now.We build the academy as the priority. We bring through the best talent we possibly can and get them into the first team and create a constant supply of that talent to replace the ones you sell. With the profit you can supply the team with experienced quality players as required and keep topping up the academy. We have had to adapt the model yes, they tried to accelerate it by bring players they thought they could develop and sell on..only Sow fulfilled that criteria and we've modified to get a better team while the academy develops. I'm aware plenty don't buy into but we're still a year or two away from it coming to fruition. That is the 5 year plan which is so widely ridiculed. I'd rather believe it can happen than watch us build the next also ran squad which might see one trophy every 10 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What is this "model" you speak of? From what I can see we have been in make it up as you go along mode for about 18 months now. Principles of Play Continuity The conveyor belt of young playing and coaching talent Signing damaged goods and selling on for big money Selling snake oil to the fans about the model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I'm not so sure we've ever sustained domination of the others...We've always been a tough team to play especially at home but aside from Levein's two 3rds I struggle to think of any other runs we've had as the best of the rest. The point is at the moment most teams outside glasgow are striving to be Aberdeen the signings are similar and the style of play is similar. We are looking outside that model to be better than all of them...benchmarking Aberdeen probably gets you Aberdeen or less it certainly won't propel us above them. We believe the model will take us to the very top and deviating from that model now will only push us back into the pack and yes we'll have the odd good season. If what we're doing works then we'll see us way ahead of the rest and have them aspiring to be Hearts. The like of Lennon and McInnes are not great managers they are astute enough to get the best 'scottish' team their budgets can buy, save in the knowledge that they don't have to win much just keep the team at the top end of the league and a couple of decent cup runs...That's it job done pick up the salary and hope it lasts a few years. I know people will say they'd take that now but it's a evolution for us and when it clicks we'll look back at these shit times and be thankful we didn't get railroaded into following the tired old model. The old firm and especially Celtic right now just rub their hands at the approach the rest have as they know it'll never challenge their dominance. To use 95-96 as a starting point when JJ took us back to top 4 and 2011/12 season as the end of the spell before admin, we finished(if my calculations are correct) 11 times above Aberdeen to their 4 over us. I'm not even going to bring the vermin into it. In regards to head to head record it's well documented how good our results are v both Aberdeen and Hibs are. We finshed 10 times out of 17 seasons in the top 4. 6 times top 3, one being a very close title challenge, and a runners up spot. Pretty dominant but could be better if we are being critical. Other clubs had their day in the sun when it came to top 3, 4 but we were there or thereabouts the majority of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition. The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner. Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display. You are painting a picture of our fans that does not exist. When our team is mismanaged and results are poor do you really believe fans shouldn't be complaining and demanding change. Please think about it because soon Hearts could have someone leading our team that knows what he is doing. Time to look forward to better times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 We build the academy as the priority. We bring through the best talent we possibly can and get them into the first team and create a constant supply of that talent to replace the ones you sell. With the profit you can supply the team with experienced quality players as required and keep topping up the academy. We have had to adapt the model yes, they tried to accelerate it by bring players they thought they could develop and sell on..only Sow fulfilled that criteria and we've modified to get a better team while the academy develops. I'm aware plenty don't buy into but we're still a year or two away from it coming to fruition. That is the 5 year plan which is so widely ridiculed. I'd rather believe it can happen than watch us build the next also ran squad which might see one trophy every 10 years... So you think Hearts are going to build a team of players largely from the academy, holding on to the good ones for long enough to challenge for honors. Sounds idyllic but total fantasyland. Nothing wrong with having designs to have a strong youth system that produces more Paterson level players but going to take a hell of a lot more than that to "take us to the very top". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 So you think Hearts are going to build a team of players largely from the academy, holding on to the good ones for long enough to challenge for honors. Sounds idyllic but total fantasyland. Nothing wrong with having designs to have a strong youth system that produces more Paterson level players but going to take a hell of a lot more than that to "take us to the very top". I do yes. As the model is clearly structured to cope with any out going players. It's used to good effect on the continent and to a certain extent Southampton use it down south..There problem is they can't hold on to a manager long enough to get it going long enough to get to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I wince when I hear folk referring to football clubs as models and projects. Folk been listening too much to the dafties on Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sac Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 You are painting a picture of our fans that does not exist. When our team is mismanaged and results are poor do you really believe fans shouldn't be complaining and demanding change. Please think about it because soon Hearts could have someone leading our team that knows what he is doing. Time to look forward to better times. There lies the key. Get this next managerial appointment right & things will start to click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Did you read redm's "stream of consciousness"? What part of it made you think I wouldn't be comfortable with a target of being competitive? Strange assumption to draw from what I said. It's the repetitive, hysterical and often ridiculously excessive targeting of individuals that I struggle with. Not the ambition. I'm very comfortable with that. In fact, I'm all for it. I like when we win stuff, same as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudiHMFC Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I wince when I hear folk referring to football clubs as models and projects. Folk been listening too much to the dafties on Sky. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 What part of it made you think I wouldn't be comfortable with a target of being competitive? Strange assumption to draw from what I said. It's the repetitive, hysterical and often ridiculously excessive targeting of individuals that I struggle with. Not the ambition. I'm very comfortable with that. In fact, I'm all for it. I like when we win stuff, same as anyone else.Can you define your view of competitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition. The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner. Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display. Can we drop the "sense of entitlement" crap - it is so feckin repetitive and boring!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucille's Thirsty Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Neilson was hounded out like it or not because of the Hibs result. "Money spinner" Poor chat. I liked him 58% winning ratio and I have no doubt if he stayed we'd be up there with Aberdeen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought Police Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Neilson was hounded out like it or not because of the Hibs result. "Money spinner" Poor chat. I liked him 58% winning ratio and I have no doubt if he stayed we'd be up there with Aberdeen. Correct. Sometimes I feel there are fans who'd prefer to consistently finish mid table as long as we beat Hibs every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Correct. Sometimes I feel there are fans who'd prefer to consistently finish mid table as long as we beat Hibs every time. so on this thread you've bemoaned the category of fans who have high demands who don't back the team properly - is this a different category of fan who you're now bemoaning I.e. The ones who are happy to finish mid-table. Hopefully there are some hearts fans you find ok otherwise it must be a tough day out for you going to the games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought Police Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 so on this thread you've bemoaned the category of fans who have high demands who don't back the team properly - is this a different category of fan who you're now bemoaning I.e. The ones who are happy to finish mid-table. Hopefully there are some hearts fans you find ok otherwise it must be a tough day out for you going to the games I never said people shouldn't have high demands. I've remained consistent that people have been moaning for two years just because we stopped beating Hibs, even though we were doing well in the league. But you bash on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I want to live in this fantasy world where we can win the Premiership simply by having "Hi Dimandz". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I'm all for demanding success, but I also feel that the high demands have hindered the way the fans have back the players from the stands for the past two seasons. We can't just say we're a great support due to monthly pledges. that's why I didn't categorise the fans as having high demands only no mention of hibs in this post apologies if I've accidentally misrepresented again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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