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#1 SteauaNeedarest

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:03 pm

Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition.

The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner.

Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display.

#2 Big Slim Stylee

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:06 pm

We've always been a bit of a moany support as long as i can remember, tbh :)



#3 Debut 4

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:06 pm

Go and stop the entitlement sheight please.

Bemoaning a horrific last few months of football from Hearts doesn't mean anyone feels entitled.

Edited by Debut 4, 12 August 2017 - 10:07 pm.


#4 FWJ

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:07 pm

Kinda true. The season in the Championship spoiled us a bit.

But with our resources we should be able to rely on a few wins?

#5 socrates82

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:07 pm

We've got such a schizophrenic support. Going above and beyond to save the club one day. Hiring protest planes and moaning about players and coaches before they've got their feet in the door the next. Although I suspect the second group haven't done as much to save the club as others who genuinely support the team.


Edited by socrates82, 12 August 2017 - 10:14 pm.


#6 SteauaNeedarest

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:07 pm

We've always been a bit of a moany support as long as i can remember, tbh :)


Maybe there's just more of us turning up to moan then! :lol:

#7 Duško

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:08 pm

Go and stop the entitlement sheight please.

Bemoaning a horrific last few months of football from Hearts doesn't mean anyone feels entitled.


I think he's absolutely spot on regarding some fans.

#8 SteauaNeedarest

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:09 pm

Go and stop the entitlement sheight please.

Bemoaning a horrific last few months of football from Hearts doesn't mean anyone feels entitled.


Yet we've got some still criticising every possible opportunity even when we win.

We weren't horrific today. Not great but still some look for the worst in our performance rather than the positives.

#9 Debut 4

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:14 pm

I think he's absolutely spot on regarding some fans.

some, yes.

Most people I know(Hearts supporters) , taking into consideration the state we were in recently, just expected the basics from Hearts.

No one spoke of sweeping all before them. Once we establish a hard working team with fight and passion allied with regular good results, then we could expect more. But I don't know many fans who felt entitled to dance past many teams given the sheight being served up last season?

#10 smiler

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:16 pm

Go and stop the entitlement sheight please.
Bemoaning a horrific last few months of football from Hearts doesn't mean anyone feels entitled.


You know shite isn't on the swear filter aye?

#11 Duško

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:17 pm

some, yes.

Most people I know(Hearts supporters) , taking into consideration the state we were in recently, just expected the basics from Hearts.

No one spoke of sweeping all before them. Once we establish a hard working team with fight and passion allied with regular good results, then we could expect more. But I don't know many fans who felt entitled to dance past many teams given the sheight being served up last season?


I certainly believe that if you, and therefore I assume the people you surround yourself with would be similar minded. Unfortunately, the digital age means these are no longer the opinions we are bombarded with. I totally get what he's talking about.

#12 Special Agent Dale Cooper

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:17 pm

OP is correct. 



#13 Debut 4

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:17 pm

You know shite isn't on the swear filter aye?

naw, I do now though, aye...

#14 RudiHMFC

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:20 pm

If you can watch Hearts over the last year and still be 'positive' then you're easy pleased, absolute shambles and the squad is littered with awful players. That's the reality.

#15 Cade

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:21 pm

We've been pish for 7 months, are showing hardly any signs of improvement in our play and are STILL needing to buy in 4-5 players.

 

We're entitled to moan.



#16 DH1986

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:24 pm

Between the championship win and folk paying a monthly subscription to FOH has no doubt made a big chunk of our supporters more demanding and less tolerant.


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#17 Duško

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:26 pm

Between the championship win and folk paying a monthly subscription to FOH has no doubt made a big chunk of our supporters more demanding and less tolerant.


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Indeed.

#18 glynnlondon

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:26 pm

I'd say as a support we're entitled to some semblance of competence regards first team and management recruitment and tactics.
Been sadly missing for ages and if that makes me a moany no good ***** to some so be it.
Let's hope we don't **** it up this time.

#19 Thought Police

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:46 pm

The moaning under Neilson was farcical.

#20 Duško

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:48 pm

The moaning under Neilson was farcical.


It totally was. Still, look where are now, eh?

******* imbeciles.

#21 davemclaren

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:48 pm

If you can watch Hearts over the last year and still be 'positive' then you're easy pleased, absolute shambles and the squad is littered with awful players. That's the reality.


I don't think the squad is littered with awful players, but maybe you can list them. For me, another 2/3 signings should allow us to be pretty competitive.

#22 Alan_R

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:57 pm

Was nothing to do with stylish football

Neilsons downfall for many was continued failures in the so called big games

Then cathro took over and we were just rotten

#23 Pants Shaton

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:58 pm

We've generally always been a good deal more shite than we deserve. This has mostly been the case from about 1960 onwards.

#24 Duško

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:01 pm

Was nothing to do with stylish football

Neilsons downfall for many was continued failures in the so called big games

Then cathro took over and we were just rotten


For some perhaps. For many others, Robbie's biggest failure was Ann Budge launching the bigots.

#25 Texia

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:05 pm

For some perhaps. For many others, Robbie's biggest failure was Ann Budge launching the bigots.

:spoton:

And him calling them out too.

#26 Duško

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:07 pm

:spoton:

And him calling them out too.


"Aye but it was just a drum likes... " Beyond special. :lol:

#27 Cade

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:18 pm

For some perhaps. For many others, Robbie's biggest failure was Ann Budge launching the bigots.

:spoton:



#28 Buffalo Bill

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:19 pm

The first season after promotion, we started the season really well but then settled down into being solid, but rather unspectacular. Although the 3rd place finish was welcome, the season was, rightly or wrongly overshadowed by the excruciating cup exit to Hibs, which in part resulted in Hibs going on to break their cup hoodoo.

 

Last season, we were dire.

 

In both the last two seasons, recruitment hasn't been great.

 

Despite being, at present head coach-less, and the fact that we're not playing at home until November, and that the re-building of the team is still incomplete, I still think we'll witness an improvement from last season's disappointment. 

 

I have high standards for what I want Hearts to be and I call it as I see it. If we get the recruitment of the new head coach right, and bring in a few more decent players, then we can return to being one of the top sides in the country.

 

When it comes to Hearts, I feel a strong sense of 'expectancy'. Some people might call that 'entitlement'.



#29 Nelly Terraces

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:20 pm

Go and stop the entitlement sheight please.

Bemoaning a horrific last few months of football from Hearts doesn't mean anyone feels entitled.

End thread here.

#30 OTT

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:27 pm

We have a very loyal and passionate fan base that have a certain level of expectation which the players and management team have failed to meet.

 

This season might be different but we still need a GK, CM and 2 wingers. 



#31 Geoff Kilpatrick

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:12 am

I look at Aberdeen as our benchmark and we are currently miles behind them.

Apologies if that makes me "entitled".

#32 davemclaren

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:29 am

I look at Aberdeen as our benchmark and we are currently miles behind them.
Apologies if that makes me "entitled".


To be fair, they haven't had the inconveninces of relegation and administration to contend with over the last few years. However, their stadium issues are increasing as ours subside so that should have a balancing effect, hopefully.

#33 tolcross lad

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 01:21 am

The first season after promotion, we started the season really well but then settled down into being solid, but rather unspectacular. Although the 3rd place finish was welcome, the season was, rightly or wrongly overshadowed by the excruciating cup exit to Hibs, which in part resulted in Hibs going on to break their cup hoodoo.

 

Last season, we were dire.

 

In both the last two seasons, recruitment hasn't been great.

 

Despite being, at present head coach-less, and the fact that we're not playing at home until November, and that the re-building of the team is still incomplete, I still think we'll witness an improvement from last season's disappointment. 

 

I have high standards for what I want Hearts to be and I call it as I see it. If we get the recruitment of the new head coach right, and bring in a few more decent players, then we can return to being one of the top sides in the country.

 

When it comes to Hearts, I feel a strong sense of 'expectancy'. Some people might call that 'entitlement'.

BB You are a very sincere supporter and your faith in the club seems almost limitless.Having supported Hearts since the 1950s I have no sense of entitlement but like yourself I have always thought we could do much better if we were properly run .There is an opportunity at this moment in time as the club gets to an even keel but as we make progress outwith the football department because of the financial support of the fans we are gradually falling way short on the playing side.There is a fundamental problem that a new Head coach or a few more decent players is not going to sort and that is how our football department is run.Sooner or later everyone is going to have to waken up to this issue.



#34 Desmundo

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 01:30 am

We won today.


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#35 Nookie Bear

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:38 am

We have a worse team than the one that started our Championship season, a batch of promising young players stagnated or were not developed and have now left or are about to leave for peanuts, we have purchased appallingly in some cases while we see players that would do well in the SPL sign for other teams and do well.

Every reason to feel aggrieved and, yeah, we are entitled to better than this.

#36 Sir Gio

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 06:57 am

Empty vessels make most noise

#37 Gigolo-Aunt

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:02 am

I think there is rightly a frustration of the same mistakes being repeated as we have glaring positions in the squad that need upgrading or more numbers.



#38 fabienleclerq

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:07 am

OP is spot on and people saying it's the football played etc are kidding themselves. We don't get behind the team and its like folk are desperate to have something to moan about. Dare I say it... We need the young team making a noise and bringing some positivity back. Minus the bigoted stuff and then folk will join in.

#39 Sir Gio

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:08 am

I look at Aberdeen as our benchmark and we are currently miles behind them.

Apologies if that makes me "entitled".

We got close but several things happened.

Neilson left
Cathro came
Aberdeen got humiliated at a cup final and found inspiration
We ripped up what had served us fairly well
Cathro didn't know Scottish football kept his style of football
Aberdeen have fresh investment
We are invested in our ground improvement

We could use a sugar daddy as they have.

And of course a manager.

Times have changed.

#40 Finlay James

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:10 am

Killie 0 - 1 Hearts

#41 Geoff Kilpatrick

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:17 am

We got close but several things happened.

Neilson left
Cathro came
Aberdeen got humiliated at a cup final and found inspiration
We ripped up what had served us fairly well
Cathro didn't know Scottish football kept his style of football
Aberdeen have fresh investment
We are invested in our ground improvement

We could use a sugar daddy as they have.

And of course a manager.

Times have changed.

The prequel to that was Aberdeen destroying us 3-1 at home.

Up to that point Neilson had adopted the second tier style of play in the top flight and it worked. Then we collectively shat ourselves at one reversal. We became more defensive. Wingers were eschewed for central midfielders and becoming "hard to beat" was the priority.

Ho hum.

Edited by Geoff Kilpatrick, 13 August 2017 - 07:18 am.


#42 Sir Gio

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:19 am

The prequel to that was Aberdeen destroying us 3-1 at home.

Up to that point Neilson had adopted the second tier style of play in the top flight and it worked. Then we collectively shat ourselves at one reversal.

We did. But as a result of a self pressure. A bit of patience and calm was needed all round.
Recruitment as well. It has been more miss than hit. Lately.

#43 Buffalo Bill

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:33 am

BB You are a very sincere supporter and your faith in the club seems almost limitless.Having supported Hearts since the 1950s I have no sense of entitlement but like yourself I have always thought we could do much better if we were properly run .There is an opportunity at this moment in time as the club gets to an even keel but as we make progress outwith the football department because of the financial support of the fans we are gradually falling way short on the playing side.There is a fundamental problem that a new Head coach or a few more decent players is not going to sort and that is how our football department is run.Sooner or later everyone is going to have to waken up to this issue.

 

tolcross lad, I fully accept that we have fallen way short on the playing side and that is something I highlighted at the start of my previous post. The key point of your post is use of the term "fundamental problem", which is interesting because our problems have been 'fundamental'; that is, if we define the term 'fundamental' as 'a principle on which something is based'.

 

Specifically, that principle had been set by Levein in 2014, with our moneyball transfer strategy; buying in cheaper, often foreign 'talent', in the hope to out-fox our natural competition on the park, and then selling players off for a profit, off it. That game plan worked in 2014/15, and it even worked to a degree in 2015/16, the Hibs cup tie aside. But it stopped working because...fundamentally, the strategy was flawed. How do we know it was flawed? Because we lacked team spirit, the results were poor and nobody was paying money for the players we brought in, Osman Sow, aside. More so, most of the players we brought in have since left. Of the 14 players who made their debut for Hearts in season 2015/16, only four (Souttar, Cowie, Zanatta & Djoum) are still with the club. It's not just scatter gun: it's a revolving door.

 

There has been another factor too in all of this too. Aberdeen and Hibs, our two closest rivals in terms of size and stature have both flourished at a time when we have, to a degree, floundered. We've watched as Hibs have progressed into the latter stages of almost every domestic cup competition they've entered, as well as ending their Scottish Cup hoodoo. They finally won promotion. They've bought well in the summer and they look a strong side going into the new season. Aberdeen have been the best of the rest for the last three years now and again, have hoovered up the best 'realistic' player targets this summer, the sort WE should be hoping to bring to Tynecastle. Now some people will dismiss all that, but our rivals' performance is a reflection of where we are as a club. If they're doing good, then why aren't we?...is a natural question football fans ask.

 

But here's where I see hope. Things can change. Lessons can be learned.

 

Levein has seen his guy, Ian Cathro get the bullet. And if Cathro was Levein's guy, then that makes Levein accountable at some stage. He has now witnessed his first, true failure as DoF. He must learn to adapt and accept that his fundamental principles of moneyball transfer strategies and allowing untried head coaches to manage are at best, risky, and at worst: flawed.  

 

We've since seen with the signings of Laffery and Berra that good, solid signings can happen, and we know these two players attracted interest from Hibs and even Rangers. But it's to Aberdeen that we have to look in order to see the best model in how to build a good football team. They've been doing it for several years now. Yet as consistent as Aberdeen have been, they have a big, big matter to deal with in the near future which will shape and define them as a club going forward. Moving stadium will cost them millions of pounds, and flitting five miles out of town will either make them or break them as a club. 

 

But if Hearts, or should I say, if Levein can learn his lesson, and appoint the right head coach, who will in turn cement the correct transfer strategy, then good times will return ON the pitch. I am confident that we'll get there because I can see the narrative panning out. To be fair to Levein, when he came back to Hearts in 2014, it really was the year dot for the club, despite having staved off liquidation. Everything, but the very history of the club had to start again. We needed to get back to the Premiership. We had a "crumbling" main stand. Our place at Riccarton was under threat. Our academy was decimated. For all his faults, Levein has played a big part in our re-birth, and still has a big part to play as long as he is willing to adapt and to change.

 

Building this stand has taken a toll on the playing side. It was a major hurdle to over come, but we will overcome it. It is almost ready. And when it's ready, it will be ready for ever. Then we will have a home fit for a good team, and the extra money the new stand generates will help build a better team going forward. Everything will then be about the team, and improving it. I mention Aberdeen because as they still have to make their transition, ours is almost complete.

 

But I don't want Hearts to be as good as Aberdeen or Hibs. I want us to be better, much better. Be in no doubt, we are a bigger club than Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

And we can be better than them, if we get the fundamentals right.


Edited by Buffalo Bill, 13 August 2017 - 07:38 am.


#44 Finlay James

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:37 am

tolcross lad, I fully accept that we have fallen way short on the playing side and that is something I highlighted at the start of my previous post. The key point of your post is use of the term "fundamental problem", which is interesting because our problems have been 'fundamental'; that is, if we define the term 'fundamental' as 'a principle on which something is based'.
 
Specifically, that principle had been set by Levein in 2014, with our moneyball transfer strategy; buying in cheaper, often foreign 'talent', in the hope to out-fox our natural competition on the park, and then selling players off for a profit, off it. That game plan worked in 2014/15, and it even worked to a degree in 2015/16, the Hibs cup tie aside. But it stopped working because...fundamentally, the strategy was flawed. How do we know it was flawed? Because we lacked team spirit, the results were poor and nobody was paying money for the players we brought in, Osman Sow, aside. More so, most of the players we brought in have since left. Of the 14 players who made their debut for Hearts in season 2015/16, only four (Souttar, Cowie, Zanatta & Djoum) are still with the club. It's not just scatter gun: it's a revolving door.
 
There has been another factor too in all of this too. Aberdeen and Hibs, our two closest rivals in terms of size and stature have both flourished at a time when we have, to a degree, floundered. We've watched as Hibs have progressed into the latter stages of almost every domestic cup competition they've entered, as well as ending their Scottish Cup hoodoo. They finally won promotion. They've bought well in the summer and they look a strong side going into the new season. Aberdeen have been the best of the rest for the last three years now and again, have hovered up the best 'realistic' player targets this summer, the sort WE should be hoping to bring to Tynecastle. Now some people will dismiss all that, but our rivals' performance is a reflection of where we are as a club. If they're doing good, then why aren't we?...is a natural question football fans ask.
 
But here's where I see hope. Things can change. Lessons can be learned.
 
Levein has seen his guy, Ian Cathro get the bullet. And if Cathro was Levein's guy, then that makes Levein accountable at some stage. He has now witnessed his first, true failure as DoF. He must learn to adapt and accept that his fundamental principles of moneyball transfer strategies and allowing untried head coaches to manage are at best, risky, and at worst: flawed.  
 
We've since seen with the signings of Laffery and Berra that good, solid signings can happen, and we know these two players attracted interest from Hibs and even Rangers. But it's to Aberdeen that we have to look in order to see the best model in how to build a good football team. They've been doing it for several years now. Yet as consistent as Aberdeen have been, they have a big, big matter to deal with in the near future which will shape and define them as a club going forward. Moving stadium will cost them millions of pounds, and flitting five miles out of town will either make them or break them as a club. 
 
But if Hearts, or should I say, if Levein can learn his lesson, and appoint the right head coach, who will in turn cement the correct transfer strategy, then good times will return ON the pitch. I am confident that we'll get there because I can see the narrative panning out. To be fair to Levein, when he came back to Hearts in 2014, it really was the year dot for the club, despite having staved off liquidation. Everything, but the very history of the club had to start again. We needed to get back to the Premiership. We had a "crumbling" main stand. Our place at Riccarton was under threat. Our academy was decimated. For all his faults, Levein has played a big in our re-birth, and still has a big part to play as long as he is willing to adapt and to change.
 
Building this stand has taken a toll on the playing side. It was a major hurdle to over come, but we will overcome it. It is almost ready. And when it's ready, it will be ready for ever. Then we will have a home fit for a good team, and the extra money the new stand generates will help build a better team going forward. Everything will then be about the team, and improving it. I mention Aberdeen because as they still have to make their transition, ours is almost complete.
 
But I don't want Hearts to be as good as Aberdeen or Hibs. I want us to be better, much better. Be in no doubt, we are a bigger club than Aberdeen and Hibs.
 
And we can be better than them, if we get the fundamentals right.


Very, very good post

#45 Daveandal

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:38 am

There is a difference between being disappointed in performances and systematically moaning and criticising everything the club does.

We have a small but loud and keyboard obsessed section of our support who just moan all the time. I suspect a fair few on here are not Hearts fans at all but some unfortunately are.

#46 Gambo

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:51 am

We, as supporters of Heart of Midlothian FC, should expect to win the vast majority of games we play.

#47 McCrae

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:00 am

Nothing wrong with having high standards and demanding the best effort/performance. All winners act this way. Losers sit back and accept lower standards.

Hearts are a big club, we should demand success.

#48 soonbe110

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:02 am

Ever since we won the Championship and steam rollered the majority of teams in it, some of our support have taken some sort of idea we're entitled just to maul the opposition.
The 2nd season in SPL proved as much when we finished 3rd but Neilson was abused for perceived negative football. Since then some of our support have adopted some sort of entitlement complex that we are meant to just beat the teams put in front of us in a stylish manner.
Since then, we've just got worse as a fan base and got more and more negative about our players. Today was a good result regardless of performance yet some players are still hammered because of some supporters perceived poor display.

100% agree. Yesterday we had players on the pitch getting abuse from kick-off, albeit from a minority of fans, yet the guy that clearly wants to leave and isn't mentally fit enough to play gets a royal reception when he warms up! Time for us to get 100% behind the eleven jerseys on the park and encourage rather than disparage them.

#49 Rudi'sleftfoot

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:04 am

The last six months have been poor and we have started poorly this year ( LC).

A wee moan is expected as we should be doing better.

However, the moaning under Neilson was embarrassing and the way we jump on some players backs so quickly is cringey as hell.

#50 Daveandal

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:09 am

100% agree. Yesterday we had players on the pitch getting abuse from kick-off, albeit from a minority of fans, yet the guy that clearly wants to leave and isn't mentally fit enough to play gets a royal reception when he warms up! Time for us to get 100% behind the eleven jerseys on the park and encourage rather than disparage them.


I totally agree with this. No matter who pulls on the Hearts colour gets my support 100% but some people just can't back the team. It's baffling.

Ironically I could understand Walker getting abuse (wouldn't agree with it) yet he is treated like a hero.