Cathro: Quality not Quantity

[Clerry Jambo]

We seem to get this every window, Berra is a good start, lets see what follows

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-coach-ian-cathro-to-sign-quality-not-quantity-1-4457257

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

We could be done with seeing some more prior to pre season, but quality can take time. Encouraged though that the process has probably been running since January

[oh ah grantona]

As op says same pish spouted every season.

 

Berra is a good signing but hardly a coup on what he is saying ( he wanted to come wanted to end career here so basically if we wanted he was in) it's like putting Megan fox in front of me and saying do you want her of course I'm going to say yes.

 

Cathro is the man to lead us into atleast the start of season ( unfortunately) I just worry that in 26 games he clearly can't inspire or motivate players, none of them looked that motivated even the ones we are keeping. So what happens if the new players think feck me this guy is a donkey. He is basically relying on the players to be the motivators. I really fear for us but he has to be given the chance by fans now to sink or swim I just hope the club has the balls to pull plug if going wrong because anything like last season and the club will be very much damaged

[mahgrassyshoes]

It's a nice sentiment but the fact is we've let a lot of people go over the last 2 windows with more people looking like following suit. We need both quality and quantity in this window.

 

There are a few youngsters on the fringes but none that really look like coming in and making a position their own. Brandon looked good against Celtic, Smith has improved recently after a really wobbly period, Zanatta and Roy's experience has come at a very low level. Beith didn't get any time during the last 5 games despite the season being as good as over. We can't be expecting any of these guys to be first team regulars from the get go.

 

We need a lot of good quality signings to be where everyone expects is to be.

[Buffalo Bill]

I reckon there will be quantity. I expect us to sign seven or eight.

 

 

I hope there is quality. If we're going for players who are tried and tested in the UK then at least we'll avoid the likes of the disaster of Oshaniwa and hopefully the square peg in a round hole type-signings like Tziolis.

 

 

Berra was a great start.

 

.

[buzzbomb]

Based upon a ?3M budget, spend ?2M on the first 11 (67%) gives these players an average of ~?3.6K per week (obviously, some will earn a bit more, some less, within that). Give ?700K to the next 7 players (~?2K per week average) and that's the bones of your squad. The remaining ?300K is youth players and the remainder of the 22 man squad should be from the academy. It requires moving on Sammon, Oshaniwa etc to implement it.

 

It gives you the best possible starting team, while still allowing for injury and a decent standard replacement being available. It also gives a path into the squad for the academy players.

[The Don]

Based upon a ?3M budget, spend ?2M on the first 11 (67%) gives these players an average of ~?3.6K per week (obviously, some will earn a bit more, some less, within that). Give ?700K to the next 7 players (~?2K per week average) and that's the bones of your squad. The remaining ?300K is youth players and the remainder of the 22 man squad should be from the academy. It requires moving on Sammon, Oshaniwa etc to implement it.

 

It gives you the best possible starting team, while still allowing for injury and a decent standard replacement being available. It also gives a path into the squad for the academy players.

 

 

Wheres this ?3m figure coming from? is that just the first figure you thought of or has it been reported? I'd be surprised if we're releasing details of budget amounts.

[Erik]

Unfortunately, with most of the team needing replaced - we are going to need quality AND quantity.

[johnking123]

It's a bit more than ?3 million

[johnking123]

It's a bit more than ?3 million

[Bazzas right boot]

Wheres this ?3m figure coming from? is that just the first figure you thought of or has it been reported? I'd be surprised if we're releasing details of budget amounts.

I think our last accounts shown a budget of ?4.4m, ?4.7m?

Hibs about ?5m and Aberdeen ?6.2. rangers were near ?15m

 

If we only spend ?3m then 5th is about best we can hope for.

 

We should have considerably more than ?3m.

[The Don]

I think our last accounts shown a budget of ?4.4m, ?4.7m?

Hibs about ?5m and Aberdeen ?6.2. rangers were near ?15m

 

If we only spend ?3m then 5th is about best we can hope for.

 

We should have considerably more than ?3m.

 

Agreed. IMO we should be looking at double that then, and even more next season given the big increase in hospitality revenue and hopefully attendances etc.

[Bazzas right boot]

Folk are a bit literal on here.

 

He will know we need around 20 senior pros with the younsters taking us to around 25.

 

He's hardly going to sign only 5 players of perceived quality and leave us with a squad of about 15.

 

Aberdeen have maybe 15/16 players of quality, the rest are young lads and run of the mill spl players.

 

Cathro knows we obviously need numbers, he's already let about 6 go.

[kingantti1874]

I think our last accounts shown a budget of ?4.4m, ?4.7m?

Hibs about ?5m and Aberdeen ?6.2. rangers were near ?15m

 

If we only spend ?3m then 5th is about best we can hope for.

 

We should have considerably more than ?3m.

For what feels like the millionth time.. those were not player salaries. Those are the totality of salaries at the clubs so for hearts didn't include sales, corporate staff eye as those roles were outsourced.

[Bazzas right boot]

Folk are a bit literal on here.

 

He will know we need around 20 senior pros with the younsters taking us to around 25.

 

He's hardly going to sign only 5 players of perceived quality and leave us with a squad of about 15.

 

Aberdeen have maybe 15/16 players of quality, the rest are young lads and run of the mill spl players.

 

Cathro knows we obviously need numbers, he's already let about 6 go.

[Bazzas right boot]

Folk are a bit literal on here.

 

He will know we need around 20 senior pros with the younsters taking us to around 25.

 

He's hardly going to sign only 5 players of perceived quality and leave us with a squad of about 15.

 

Aberdeen have maybe 15/16 players of quality, the rest are young lads and run of the mill spl players.

 

Cathro knows we obviously need numbers, he's already let about 6 go.

[Chaps]

I think our last accounts shown a budget of ?4.4m, ?4.7m?

Hibs about ?5m and Aberdeen ?6.2. rangers were near ?15m

 

If we only spend ?3m then 5th is about best we can hope for.

 

We should have considerably more than ?3m.

Hibs chucking 5M to win the championship.

 

I think we'll bring in 5/6 players and the rest of the squad being made up of youngsters.

[buzzbomb]

Player budget will be around that mark. Rangers player budget around ?6.5M, Aberdeen about ?4.5M, Celtic ?15M, hibs ~?3-3.5M. I think in the championship our budget was ?2.5M.

[Bazzas right boot]

For what feels like the millionth time.. those were not player salaries. Those are the totality of salaries at the clubs so for hearts didn't include sales, corporate staff eye as those roles were outsourced.

 

? You make my point even more....

 

We'll clearly spend more than ?3m on wages then, quite a bit more. Why you getting your panties in a twist?

[Boris]

As op says same pish spouted every season.

 

Berra is a good signing but hardly a coup on what he is saying ( he wanted to come wanted to end career here so basically if we wanted he was in) it's like putting Megan fox in front of me and saying do you want her of course I'm going to say yes.

 

Cathro is the man to lead us into atleast the start of season ( unfortunately) I just worry that in 26 games he clearly can't inspire or motivate players, none of them looked that motivated even the ones we are keeping. So what happens if the new players think feck me this guy is a donkey. He is basically relying on the players to be the motivators. I really fear for us but he has to be given the chance by fans now to sink or swim I just hope the club has the balls to pull plug if going wrong because anything like last season and the club will be very much damaged

 

No doubt that will be part of the recruitment process, i.e. only signing those who buy into what Cathro and Levein/the club re trying to achieve.

 

The last window was a nightmare, buying in players at short notice that we thought had the necessary for us, but we were wrong.  Tzolis being a prime example.  A guy that quite obviously couldn't be arsed.

 

We need to create a culture at the club from the youths to the first team that everyone buys into.  If you don't then see you later.  That's the only way the overall project will succeed.  

 

Hopefully our acquisitions over the summer will be shrewder.  Shrewder even may be appointing someone else to the backroom staff to assist Cathro. 

[vegas-voss]

We need quality quantity haha

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Good news

[Jamboelite]

? You make my point even more....

 

We'll clearly spend more than ?3m on wages then, quite a bit more. Why you getting your panties in a twist?

I think he is trying to say that our budget of ?4.7 included non playing staff so actual player budget will be ?3.5m i think we will spend ?5m in total for wages all in. Against a ?8m turnover, guessing from last years a/c.

 

FF is your man who knows fhese figures inside out.

[Jambof3tornado]

The reply of quality over quantity is simply an answer to the question IC keeps getting asked.....how many players are you bringing in?

 

He has also stated you have more time this window so no need to rush but I'd like us to do the rest of our business nice and early so the players are together longer.

[Nookie Bear]

Does this apply to the management team as well?

[seebeegee]

As an aside and I know it'll be based on what the question asked was and you didnt hear that, but Cathro was on the radio this morning bleating on about his confidence in his abilities again. I'm really bored of him talking about himself and how it seems to all be about him. I genuinely do not care about him, all I care about is our Club and it's results. We all go there for the love of the Club, the traditions, what it means to us and our families, the ties and connections we have to it not whether or not Cathro is confident in himself and what he does. It's a results based business and he's not getting them to date. He's coming across as arrogant and as yet has nothing to back up his claims.

[Rudy T]

Has anyone with time on their hands able to put together a list of ins and outs since CL came in?

[Elias Henry Furst]

.

[Debut 4]

We need quality quantity haha

Joking aside, we do.

 

We need both but it could be over two , maybe 3, transfer windows.

 

I can see us promoting more youth alongside an initial glut of signings this pre season and hope to get to January in good shape where we then add more.

[Bowmans_Boot]

Joking aside, we do.

 

We need both but it could be over two , maybe 3, transfer windows.

 

I can see us promoting more youth alongside an initial glut of signings this pre season and hope to get to January in good shape where we then add more.

Except Cathro cant really afford that luxury, unless he has been promised the whole of next season.

[ford donald]

No doubt that will be part of the recruitment process, i.e. only signing those who buy into what Cathro and Levein/the club re trying to achieve.

 

The last window was a nightmare, buying in players at short notice that we thought had the necessary for us, but we were wrong.  Tzolis being a prime example.  A guy that quite obviously couldn't be arsed.

 

We need to create a culture at the club from the youths to the first team that everyone buys into.  If you don't then see you later.  That's the only way the overall project will succeed.  

 

Hopefully our acquisitions over the summer will be shrewder.  Shrewder even may be appointing someone else to the backroom staff to assist Cathro. 

 The money we have wasted on average players,is ridiculous.CL must take most of the blame for that.

[Boris]

 The money we have wasted on average players,is ridiculous.CL must take most of the blame for that.

 

Cathro is pretty well absolved in that area.  He's only had one window!

[Debut 4]

Except Cathro cant really afford that luxury, unless he has been promised the whole of next season.

probably right.

[Bull's-eye]

I liked it when finances where the obsession of the .netters and we just got on with football.

[Bazzas right boot]

I liked it when finances where the obsession of the .netters and we just got on with football.

Aye, dinnae bother with the maths, whit Could go wrong?

[Bazzas right boot]

The money we have wasted on average players,is ridiculous.CL must take most of the blame for that.

He does, but then he get credit for the players who won the championship then finished 3rd.

 

So, let's give him a chance to make amends. Berra is a good start.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

We need both quality and quantity

[A_A wehatethehibs]

When it comes to quality you can never have enough quantity.

[Unknown user]

Based upon a ?3M budget, spend ?2M on the first 11 (67%) gives these players an average of ~?3.6K per week (obviously, some will earn a bit more, some less, within that). Give ?700K to the next 7 players (~?2K per week average) and that's the bones of your squad. The remaining ?300K is youth players and the remainder of the 22 man squad should be from the academy. It requires moving on Sammon, Oshaniwa etc to implement it.

 

It gives you the best possible starting team, while still allowing for injury and a decent standard replacement being available. It also gives a path into the squad for the academy players.

Unfortunately you fail to take into account any of the extra costs involved in employing people which will eat into that budget - employer's NI contributions, pensions etc

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Cathro was quite reluctant to wax lyrical about the January window after a good start. 6 months was all that most were allowed. So far 1 1 on the big contracts.

 

Martin is less than disappointing, I can only hope he needed time coming off the Norwegian season or getting up to speed. Suso is an example of a better second season. I have doubts though.

The quality has to be right and it has to be of Goncalves standard.

 

It's also ok for Cathro to be the strategist and not the ballocker. As long as he is strong, consistent and believable. Again we all have our doubts.

 

What is beyond doubt getting quality in and winning their minds will carry the weaker ones through.

[buzzbomb]

That could be true re NI contributions, although I don't know if the ?3M is the budget for wages alone or including other costs like NI.Not sure we'll pay pensions.

 

Anyway, whatever the figure is the division of the sum among the playing squad should be along those lines I believe. ~70% first 11, 20% next 7, 10 rest..

 

Unfortunately you fail to take into account any of the extra costs involved in employing people which will eat into that budget - employer's NI contributions, pensions etc

[Bowmans_Boot]

Aye, dinnae bother with the maths, whit Could go wrong?

Whereas we are a good example just now of what happens when you go the other way and get over excited about a new stand, whilst ignoring the dross people in the old stands are watching.

[socrates82]

Whereas we are a good example just now of what happens when you go the other way and get over excited about a new stand, whilst ignoring the dross people in the old stands are watching.

 

Is part of the excitement over the new stand not so much the stand itself - although a bigger, more complete looking ground is surely a good thing - but that it represents the end of a battle to stay at Tynecastle that has been a concern for most fans for over 10 years? That's certainly my take on it - massive relief basically. A couple of meh seasons are a small price to pay for that, if that is part of the price. Plus the new stand will provide more income potential long-term to help build a better team.

[Bowmans_Boot]

Is part of the excitement over the new stand not so much the stand itself - although a bigger, more complete looking ground is surely a good thing - but that it represents the end of a battle to stay at Tynecastle that has been a concern for most fans for over 10 years? That's certainly my take on it - massive relief basically. A couple of meh seasons are a small price to pay for that, if that is part of the price. Plus the new stand will provide more income potential long-term to help build a better team.

Points taken but:

 

- to almost ignore the team on the pitch (saying that there is no reason not to buy a ST because SOME fans will be sitting in a new stand) isnt the way forward, either. There has to be a realisation at the club that people go to see the football, nothing else.

 

- the increased revenue is dependent upon the new stand being fully finished. We are some way away from that at present.

[Bazzas right boot]

Whereas we are a good example just now of what happens when you go the other way and get over excited about a new stand, whilst ignoring the dross people in the old stands are watching.

Bit dramatic.

 

If the last 6 months becomes the norm then I'd agree.

 

But although dissapionted, I'm not losing the plot over a bad six months coming of a change of manager and a shite January window.

 

The stand will give us the foundation to improve going forward. If we are still talking about it in two years then I'll agree with you,but as it's new it's only natural to take center stage.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

I for one can't get my head around the fact that the players that were bought in Jan and have left 5 months later and then we gave Martin a 3.5 year deal surely he would've been given the same deals as the rest that came in during the winter window.

 

I think Martin was a Cathro signing given the length of contract and Levein maybe had a word about getting some in on short term deal until summer until better quality of player became avail.

[mahgrassyshoes]

Points taken but:

 

- to almost ignore the team on the pitch (saying that there is no reason not to buy a ST because SOME fans will be sitting in a new stand) isnt the way forward, either. There has to be a realisation at the club that people go to see the football, nothing else.

 

- the increased revenue is dependent upon the new stand being fully finished. We are some way away from that at present.

I'm not many are ignoring the performances. Coming in here, for example, has been horrendous because there has been nothing but complaints about, the manager, the DOF, individual players and the team as a whole.

 

There is a lot of apathy within the fans at the moment due to there being so much moaning owing to the fact there is so much to moan about. You can't say the fans are ignoring performances.

 

I don't think the club are ignoring it either. There's been an acceptance that our signing policy has been as successful as hoped. We're changing the signing policy. I think it's just unfortunate that there have been problem which have been glaring for 4-5 months are there hasn't been an opportunity to mend that til now.

[kingantti1874]

I for one can't get my head around the fact that the players that were bought in Jan and have left 5 months later and then we gave Martin a 3.5 year deal surely he would've been given the same deals as the rest that came in during the winter window.

 

I think Martin was a Cathro signing given the length of contract and Levein maybe had a word about getting some in on short term deal until summer until better quality of player became avail.

Tziolis, Martin,Struna and Martin were all identified and requested by Cathro and Mcphee.. Mcphee went to watch him in Norway.

[Diadora Van Basten]

If we signed only a decent left back I would be happy.

 

We made far too many changes this year.

[kingantti1874]

If we signed only a decent left back I would be happy.

 

We made far too many changes this year.

You realise we've released most of the squad right.. and have about 10 senior players left