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Buying a car


Walter Payton

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Walter Payton

I'm clueless when it comes to cars so I'm really interested in what the collective experience and knowledge of Kickback has to offer on the subject!

 

I'm interested to see what recommendations people would make around the various purchase approaches.

 

- Assume there's around ?10k up front, but the cheaper the better. No current car to trade in, and we're not precious about it being a brand new car 

- Main purpose for car would be general daily transport around town (to "future proof" it, should probably be suitable for a small family...) with 100+ mile journeys maybe only every few months. 

- Don't want the purchase to have a significantly higher level of risk around the maintenance or chance of it breaking down (obviously no car has 0% risk in this area). Other than the initial test drive (with nobody available to know what they're talking about when it comes to giving the tyres a kick), we'll either be taking the vendors word for reliability or wanting a decent service package (which itself should be reliable- too many scare stories out there about dealers suddenly deciding a fault isn't covered by the service package!)

- With the above considered, the main aim is to avoid losing as much money on the car as possible

  • whether through having to write down value (if a new car)
  • through finance costs
  • by having outstanding payments to make at the end of any deal
  • ongoing expected costs during the deal itself. 

We also want to be in a good position when it comes to considering the deal we'll be looking at for the replacement of this car!

 

I would have assumed paying cash for a 2nd hand car through a reputable dealer is likely the best bet, but open to being told I'm wrong! Would anybody suggest PCP or Private leasing in these circumstances?

 

Thoughts?

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10k to put down is a decent start, and in all honesty you should really be able to buy something half decent in the second hand market for that.

 

However, if you're wanting something which is going to be fairly hassle free and with low risk of problems and maintenance issues - perhaps theres an argument to go for something brand new and sign up to one of these PCP / Lease type deals where all your maintenance costs will be met and all you're really doing is fuelling the thing.

 

It seems to become more and more the case that folk don't ever really 'buy' a new car - leases and short term contracts are king these days.

 

Me? Based on the criteria you've mentioned and the numbers you've talked about - I'd be giving some strong consideration to something like this:

 

https://usedcars.seat.co.uk/vehicle.aspx?wflw=se_na_ve_vi&ctr=1932864&vhl=606121811&srcmdc=se_na_re_

 

Cracking car for the money in my opinion - low running costs, only a year and a half old with low miles and probably ideal for a small family whilst being a 'nice' car at the same time.

 

Its very much a question of personal taste though.

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Keep your ?10k, stick it into your mortgage (if you have one) and get a car on lease. Depending on what you choose, you can get good brand new cars for around ?150 p/m and you don't need to worry about depreciation.

 

I'll never buy a car again.

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Keep your ?10k, stick it into your mortgage (if you have one) and get a car on lease. Depending on what you choose, you can get good brand new cars for around ?150 p/m and you don't need to worry about depreciation.

 

I'll never buy a car again.

 

You'll also never own one again but that's a different debate entirely.......

 

It suits some folk more than it suits others, and for the folk it suits its a very good way of getting a new hassle free car for sure :)

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Walter Payton

Cheers both. 

 

I must admit, I've been trying to get my head around the basic maths that makes PCP or Leasing a better option- the fact you're not owning the car (and therefore are only responsible for basic care) is attractive though. 

 

How should I be looking at it?

 

Buying 2nd hand as an example, it seems like the deal is (assuming a "fair" deal is done on purchase price) that say you spend ?6k on the car which accurately reflects its market value. There's no ongoing costs related to the purchase of the car, but you will have the fuel costs (as you would under any model) as well as ongoing maintenance costs. After 3 or 4 years, you might (depending on the car) be able to sell that car on for around ?2k which you can then contribute to the cost of your next car. 

 

If we assume this approach involves spending around ?1k (is that a reasonable estimate?) on maintenance costs that wouldn't be involved in leasing/PCP, it seems that the "true" cost of the car (again before fuel) is ?5k

 

I understand that the best deals on leasing/PCP see you accepting that you don't have any car at the end of it (either because it was only leased or because the best decision at the end of the deal is to not take your purchase option and just move onto your next deal). Would it be true to say you can get better cars for the comparative ?5k cost than just buying the car 2nd hand in the first place?

 

Numbers are really off the top of my head, but hopefully it's clear what I'm getting at!

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Get a Hyundai.

In terms of spec/what your getting they are the best value on the market at the moment (imo been car shopping recently)

we have two kids and the i20 suits our needs, the i30 is the slightly larger model. Avoid the i10, they are good but tiny.

You could get one a few years old for easily within your budget and all the mod cons.

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Walter Payton

Cheers Alan, I'll certainly take a look! Your link doesn't seem to be working though. 

 

Have you considered the cash for 2nd hand car/hpc/lease debate when making your decisions?

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You'll also never own one again but that's a different debate entirely.......

 

Many folk don't own their cars anyway (those that have finance out on them anyway). :2thumbsup:  :2thumbsup:

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Keep your ?10k, stick it into your mortgage (if you have one) and get a car on lease. Depending on what you choose, you can get good brand new cars for around ?150 p/m and you don't need to worry about depreciation.

 

I'll never buy a car again.

PCP payments effectively are depreciation!

 

And some....

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Kia still have a 7 year warranty on there cars. Not sure if the Rio is too small for what you need, or the Sportage a bit too big.

 

Only had a Rio as a rental car but seemed really nice.

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kingantti1874

You'll also never own one again but that's a different debate entirely.......

 

It suits some folk more than it suits others, and for the folk it suits its a very good way of getting a new hassle free car for sure :)

Just ordered new golf gti ?150pm DSG :)
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Cheers Alan, I'll certainly take a look! Your link doesn't seem to be working though. 

 

Have you considered the cash for 2nd hand car/hpc/lease debate when making your decisions?

Yes very much so! I've a young family and we needed something good/reliable and to a budget.

 

Doesn't matter what way you cut it ANY finance deal you will pay more. I took a loan for ours and bought outright. far better rates.

 

Unless you want something high-end then leasing wasnt for us either. Again all just my opinion. But we have everything we need in terms of comfort, engine size, economy and extra (voice recognition and all that jazz).

I appreciate leasing is good for some, if you want to cruise around in a merc or have a regular change to newer models every few years then maybe its for you. For a young family IMO you can get better value out a sensible purchase.

 

(sorry, I suspect my link was already sold. It was a bargain. It was a Kia C'eed btw at just over ?5k.)

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Captain Sausage

Just bought a gt line sportage for ?250 pcm over 3 years with 1500 up front.

 

Not too bad.

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I'm looking at a new car on Sunday and I'm in a quandary over PCP or leasing as I quite like the idea of keeping it in a few years time. I actually think the maths would be the same if i change it but clearly not if i bought it out.

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Carl Fredrickson

I bought a car a year ago. I was caught between a purchase or lease and what swayed it was the potential mess my two kids can make in a car, so I opted for a purchase. 

 

The car I got was a 3 year old Nissan Note diesel for ?5k from a Nissan dealership. Full year no quibble warranty came with the car (didnt have any issues so unsure as to how true the no quibble would be)

 

The car itself is amazing for the money. I am just back from Cardiff with my son and if the cars computer (and my maths) are to be believed, we got over 70 to the gallon. Tax is ?20 and their is loads of room for the 4 of us. The rear seats move back or forward to create more or less room in the boot. 

 

The model I got has decent spec - alloys, all windows electric, blue tooth, sat nav etc and I think it is a cracking car for what we paid. It is a smallish car with lots of room inside (Parkers says that the rear seats have more leg room than a Mondeo)

 

Good luck in you car hunt and I hope whatever you decide on you are as happy as we are.

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heartsfc_fan

It's a difficult question as I've been there before, on many different ways... Cash for a ?900 car. Cash for a ?9,000 car. And somewhere in between. Hire purchase (well the wife did) on a stupidly high APR rate with low deposit and a PCP deal on 0% (what I have now).

 

The "in between" one so far seems good. Buying something around ?3-4k that is 6/7 years old. Using it to ferry the dog and baby around. Sell it in 2 years and probably pocketing ?1,500 cash. Fine. The car needs attention once in a while, isn't? perfect but does the job. No huge loss.

 

The other car we have is a new car (worth c ?16k) no way I'd pay that in cash. Needless to say it's on PCP but 0% APR. I paid ?200 to drive I out the showroom and the same again on monthly payments. Pretty good. No worries about servicing aswell as that's covered in the deal. No MOT aswell. Full warranty of course as it was new, and ?20 road tax. I'm comfortable doing something like this for me as I average 8,000 miles a year.

 

Whatever is convenient I guess. We'll probably do the above again.

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Walter Payton

Thanks everyone for the opinions, especially those who have taken the time to write several paragraphs! It's reassuring that I wasn't a million miles away with my thinking [emoji1]

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Thanks everyone for the opinions, especially those who have taken the time to write several paragraphs! It's reassuring that I wasn't a million miles away with my thinking [emoji1]

Good stuff. Did you end up with something like this?

 

https://goo.gl/images/ncGOX9

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If you are after a decent basic car at a decent cost, and intend to keep it for a while, consider getting an ex-motability vehicle. Various dealers can source these, and the are usually in very good nick after a couple of years' use by a partially disabled driver, who may not have used it very much, or abused it. No great worries about the big depreciation hit, either.

 

PCP or Leasing are forms of finance where the Finance Company has priced the deal to make a profit. So unless the deal is heavily subsidised it doesn't benefit you financially. And you don't own the car. Those who want a brand new shiny every few years tend to go for those but it isn't for me. Trust me I used to be in the business so I know the maths.

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Walter Payton

If you are after a decent basic car at a decent cost, and intend to keep it for a while, consider getting an ex-motability vehicle. Various dealers can source these, and the are usually in very good nick after a couple of years' use by a partially disabled driver, who may not have used it very much, or abused it. No great worries about the big depreciation hit, either.

 

PCP or Leasing are forms of finance where the Finance Company has priced the deal to make a profit. So unless the deal is heavily subsidised it doesn't benefit you financially. And you don't own the car. Those who want a brand new shiny every few years tend to go for those but it isn't for me. Trust me I used to be in the business so I know the maths.

Thanks for this, very useful! Any pointers for which dealers in particular it would be worth talking to regarding the motability vehicles?

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Thanks for this, very useful! Any pointers for which dealers in particular it would be worth talking to regarding the motability vehicles?

I don't live in Edinburgh so I don't know about the dealers there. James Mitchell in North Berwick usually has a selection of ex-motability Fiestas in stock. Robert Black in Inverkeithing also advertises as a specialist in this area. Some googling will find you lots of these nationwide.

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Get yourself along to the car auctions at newbridge. Loads of cars for a fraction of what you have

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Is there any companies that do pcp without the initial upfront payment? I'm looking in to this just now but they all seem to want an initial 3,6 or 9 months payment upfront.

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Mercedes E320 off a bloke in Gorgie for ?700 cash. 4 years on, still sound as a pound and once it finally breaks, meh - who cares? Get rid and start again. As long as they're roadworthy, it's second-hand disposable motors for me! Gumtree is decent.

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If you are after a decent basic car at a decent cost, and intend to keep it for a while, consider getting an ex-motability vehicle. Various dealers can source these, and the are usually in very good nick after a couple of years' use by a partially disabled driver, who may not have used it very much, or abused it. No great worries about the big depreciation hit, either.

 

PCP or Leasing are forms of finance where the Finance Company has priced the deal to make a profit. So unless the deal is heavily subsidised it doesn't benefit you financially. And you don't own the car. Those who want a brand new shiny every few years tend to go for those but it isn't for me. Trust me I used to be in the business so I know the maths.

I'm test driving a Skoda Kodiaq tomorrow and I've got a decent price online for the top spec model. The leasing prices direct from dealers have went a bit mad in the last month or so, as in the deposit being asked for has doubled and ?20+ per month extra is being asked for. I basically want the the model under the top one with a ?300 option on it which still keeps it almost ?2k less of car. I'm basically going to be asking the dealer to match the price of the higher spec model but half the deposit. Am I in cloud cuckoo land to think that this could be possible? Any tips, other than showing them the quote I already have? I'm quite happy to walk away and order the "better" car online.

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I'm test driving a Skoda Kodiaq tomorrow and I've got a decent price online for the top spec model. The leasing prices direct from dealers have went a bit mad in the last month or so, as in the deposit being asked for has doubled and ?20+ per month extra is being asked for. I basically want the the model under the top one with a ?300 option on it which still keeps it almost ?2k less of car. I'm basically going to be asking the dealer to match the price of the higher spec model but half the deposit. Am I in cloud cuckoo land to think that this could be possible? Any tips, other than showing them the quote I already have? I'm quite happy to walk away and order the "better" car online.

The reason for asking for a substantial deposit upfront is whoever is providing the finance needs to have some 'equity' in the deal. The biggest depreciation hit happens as soon as it leaves the showroom hence the front end loading. Which is why many (including myself) have advocated going for a quality used car instead.

 

Unless the dealer is desperate for a sale, he is unlikely to have much scope for negotiation on a new car. Any good deals on those are typically those which have been 'subsidised' by the manufacturer. Why would they do that? Usually because they can't shift that particular model, or because they need to shift 'old' stock to make way for newer models. However there is also the possibility that a particular dealer needs to shift cars himself in order to meet the targets set for him by the manufacturer. In which case he may be willing to subsidise the deal himself. But he still needs to make a profit overall or he will soon be out of business.

 

So no, I wouldn't hold out to much hope of a 'special' deal. And if you are offered one, you might want to question why.

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The reason for asking for a substantial deposit upfront is whoever is providing the finance needs to have some 'equity' in the deal. The biggest depreciation hit happens as soon as it leaves the showroom hence the front end loading. Which is why many (including myself) have advocated going for a quality used car instead.

 

Unless the dealer is desperate for a sale, he is unlikely to have much scope for negotiation on a new car. Any good deals on those are typically those which have been 'subsidised' by the manufacturer. Why would they do that? Usually because they can't shift that particular model, or because they need to shift 'old' stock to make way for newer models. However there is also the possibility that a particular dealer needs to shift cars himself in order to meet the targets set for him by the manufacturer. In which case he may be willing to subsidise the deal himself. But he still needs to make a profit overall or he will soon be out of business.

 

So no, I wouldn't hold out to much hope of a 'special' deal. And if you are offered one, you might want to question why.

I'm not looking for a special deal. 4 weeks ago places weren't even looking for ?900 deposit and now they seem to want the best part of ?1800. It's quite odd. They also seem to be asking for more than several leasing companies who take a cut from Skoda. It doesn't really make sense that there's room for the leasing companies to take a cut, and for them to offer a more expensive car for less.

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The reason for asking for a substantial deposit upfront is whoever is providing the finance needs to have some 'equity' in the deal. The biggest depreciation hit happens as soon as it leaves the showroom hence the front end loading. Which is why many (including myself) have advocated going for a quality used car instead.

 

Unless the dealer is desperate for a sale, he is unlikely to have much scope for negotiation on a new car. Any good deals on those are typically those which have been 'subsidised' by the manufacturer. Why would they do that? Usually because they can't shift that particular model, or because they need to shift 'old' stock to make way for newer models. However there is also the possibility that a particular dealer needs to shift cars himself in order to meet the targets set for him by the manufacturer. In which case he may be willing to subsidise the deal himself. But he still needs to make a profit overall or he will soon be out of business.

 

So no, I wouldn't hold out to much hope of a 'special' deal. And if you are offered one, you might want to question why.

I'm not looking for a special deal. 4 weeks ago places weren't even looking for ?900 deposit and now they seem to want the best part of ?1800. It's quite odd. They also seem to be asking for more than several leasing companies who take a cut from Skoda. It doesn't really make sense that there's room for the leasing companies to take a cut, and for them to offer a more expensive car for less.

 

Edit: There's zero chance of buying a second hand Kodiaq, I'm sure you realise.

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heartsfc_fan

Is there any companies that do pcp without the initial upfront payment? I'm looking in to this just now but they all seem to want an initial 3,6 or 9 months payment upfront.

Yes. Some do 1 month up front.

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10k ill get you an awful lot of car second hand.

 

Personally I'd take 3-4k for a car plus maybe an extra 1000 for insurance and odd wee jobs to get sorted then you've got 5k for a holiday wi the burdz to somewhere really f** nice.. or several shorter breaks round europe and a decent 2 weeker in dominican republic or similar..

 

My current car, a 54 plate zafira, cost me 800 quid plus a further 400 tops for 2 tyres, exhaust and service, mot... will run for a long time yet.

 

Personally I'd bever buy on finance ever again.. if you have 4-5k to spend at a dealer you should be able to get a top motor.. check autotrader and various websites (although take note of some mentioned on her like vardy etc who have below good service and follow up..)..

 

 

its all about choices and horses for courses but with 10k I know what I'd be doing...

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Just bought a Skoda Kodiaq on PCP after giving up chasing mythical lease deals. Managed to get a decent discount that makes it make more sense than a lease anyway. 4-6 months lead time!

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