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SwindonJambo

Pele won 3 World Cups out of 4 he played in and scored 92 goals for Brazil. To claim that Maradona was the better player is very bold.

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Pele won 3 World Cups out of 4 he played in and scored 92 goals for Brazil. To claim that Maradona was the better player is very bold.

Pele did have much better players around him
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Bowmans_Boot

Pele won 3 World Cups out of 4 he played in and scored 92 goals for Brazil. To claim that Maradona was the better player is very bold.

It is also very true.

 

How many WCs did Pele win on his own? How many finals did he get his country to pretty much on his own?

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It is also very true.

How many WCs did Pele win on his own? How many finals did he get his country to pretty much on his own?

On his own :lol: Maradona was good at football but you're embarrassing yourself.

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Bowmans_Boot

On his own :lol: Maradona was good at football but you're embarrassing yourself.

"Maradona was good at football". Hmmmmmmm

 

Yes, he pretty much won that WC on his own, hence he is sooooooo loved in Argentina.

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It is also very true.

 

How many WCs did Pele win on his own? How many finals did he get his country to pretty much on his own?

as much as a spectacular player as Maradona was he never won a world cup on his own. That shows up your lack of knowledge of the 86 side or you have been taken in by the media
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"Maradona was good at football". Hmmmmmmm

 

Yes, he pretty much won that WC on his own, hence he is sooooooo loved in Argentina.

absolute nonsense
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"Maradona was good at football". Hmmmmmmm

Yes, he pretty much won that WC on his own, hence he is sooooooo loved in Argentina.

See if Maradona played against the shittest team in the world on his own he'd get pumped, he was the best player in his team but he was not alone he had team mates with him, ken, like what happens in football, a team game.

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SwindonJambo

All 3 Argentinian goals in the '86 final were scored by players other than Maradona.

 

Just because he is adored in his home country does not make him the best ever player.

 

Anyway, about 100 years ago, the World's best current player was reckoned to be a Jambo :) (Bobby Walker).

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In 1958, Pele was only 17 years old.  He scored the only goal in the quarter final, scored a hat-trick in the semi-final and scored another couple in the final.  Pretty much he single-handedly won the World Cup for Brazil.

 

In 1962, he was a better all-round player, and although injury restiricted him for most of the tournament, he was rightly lauded for his performance against Mexico.

 

"For almost an hour, the Mexicans defended courageously before Pel? undid them. With a simple but brilliant cross from the right, he picked out an unmarked Zagalo, who headed the first goal. Then, after 73 minutes, Pel? tilted the match in Brazil?s favor with a goal of stupendous proportions, a right-footed solo past four defenders and a ferocious left-footed strike.
 
He charged through the Mexican defense with the ball obediently dancing around his foot, displaying slick, sinuous movement and killer instinct to score Brazil?s second goal, an exploit the leaner Pel? of 1958 and the bulkier Pel? of 1970 would not have accomplished. The goal was reminiscent of his wonder goal against Benfica in the final of the World Club Cup earlier that season.
 
At 21, Pel? was now the best soccer player in the world, highlighting his metamorphosis from a skinny 5?8? teenager, whose nifty skills up front and tears on Nilton Santos?s chest had conquered Sweden in 1958, into a more cerebral and more dynamic athlete, who formed the lynchpin of Brazil?s starting lineup.
 
The goal against Mexico was emblematic of Pel?, a player in pristine form at the peak of his playing days. He embodied, for the first time perhaps, the notion of a modern-day player, even of today?s super athletes, like Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. He artfully brushed the ball and intelligently outmaneuvered opponents, all while being the fittest player on the field. Pel? simply encompassed soccer."
 
In 1970, he was the ringleader, the master technician, the beating heart of the greatest international team there has ever been.
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luckyBatistuta

Pele won 3 World Cups out of 4 he played in and scored 92 goals for Brazil. To claim that Maradona was the better player is very bold.

  

It helps when your surrounded by some of the worlds best players at that time.

In 1958, Pele was only 17 years old.  He scored the only goal in the quarter final, scored a hat-trick in the semi-final and scored another couple in the final.  Pretty much he single-handedly won the World Cup for Brazil.

 

In 1962, he was a better all-round player, and although injury restiricted him for most of the tournament, he was rightly lauded for his performance against Mexico.

 

"For almost an hour, the Mexicans defended courageously before Pel? undid them. With a simple but brilliant cross from the right, he picked out an unmarked Zagalo, who headed the first goal. Then, after 73 minutes, Pel? tilted the match in Brazil?s favor with a goal of stupendous proportions, a right-footed solo past four defenders and a ferocious left-footed strike.

 

He charged through the Mexican defense with the ball obediently dancing around his foot, displaying slick, sinuous movement and killer instinct to score Brazil?s second goal, an exploit the leaner Pel? of 1958 and the bulkier Pel? of 1970 would not have accomplished. The goal was reminiscent of his wonder goal against Benfica in the final of the World Club Cup earlier that season.

 

At 21, Pel? was now the best soccer player in the world, highlighting his metamorphosis from a skinny 5?8? teenager, whose nifty skills up front and tears on Nilton Santos?s chest had conquered Sweden in 1958, into a more cerebral and more dynamic athlete, who formed the lynchpin of Brazil?s starting lineup.

 

The goal against Mexico was emblematic of Pel?, a player in pristine form at the peak of his playing days. He embodied, for the first time perhaps, the notion of a modern-day player, even of today?s super athletes, like Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. He artfully brushed the ball and intelligently outmaneuvered opponents, all while being the fittest player on the field. Pel? simply encompassed soccer."

 

In 1970, he was the ringleader, the master technician, the beating heart of the greatest international team there has ever been.

So he was good in World Cups, wouldn't disagree with that at all, but so was Maradona. Santos began to be seen as the best team in the world in 56 (the year before Pele). When Pel? made his debut in the Campeonato Paulista in 1957, the team was already twice state champions. Santos won the third state title in 50 years, the magical year of 1958 ? in which Brazil became world champion in Sweden, with Zito Santos, Pel? and Pepe, and won in spectacular fashion. The team scored 143 goals in 38 games, averaging 3.76 per game. Only 40 goals were scored against them. Traditional rivals were massacred in 1958, particularly 10?0 against the Nacional. In addition to state titles, the Santos won the Rio-S?o Paulo in 1959, beating Vasco in the final by 3?0 with two goals by Coutinho, who was only 16 years old at the time. Coutinho also scored five goals against Ponte Preta, and Santos won the game by 12?1 even without Pel?. No other team had a prevalence in Brazilian football as great as Santos in the 1960s. The club won eight titles: six Brazilian Championships (five Ta?a Brasil and one Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa), two Copas Libertadores, two Intercontinental Cups, three Rio-S?o Paulo, a South American Recopa. On two occasions ? against Germany and England ? the national team had eight Santos players in the team. In six games of qualifying for the 1970 World Cup "The beasts of the Saldanha" played with six Santos players : Carlos Alberto, Djalma Dias, Joel Camargo, Rildo, Pel? and Edu. The influence of Santos was so great that the defense played with the national team the same numbers that were used at Santos: right-back with the shirt 4, right center-back with the second, left center-back with the sixth and left-back with three (no wonder they were do good in world cups). This for me is why I rate Maradona higher. He played for different clubs lifting them to titles, even though they didn't have the best players and went up against the best from all over the world throughout his career. Pele on the other hand stayed with Santos, who were the best team with the best players, winning games by ridiculous score lines of 10-0 and even 12-1 without him on the park, before moving on to the Mickey Mouse MLS. The mere fact that every time Pele is brought up on tv, we have to watch his fabulous miss, as some amazing highlight of his career, surely there must be masses of stuff we could watch of him that's better. Yes, he was amazing and one of the greatest ever, but Maradona stands head and shoulders above them all imo.

 

Just in case someone hasn't seen it, here you go...

IMG_2880.gif

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Bazzas right boot

Pele stats proves he was the best player.

 

To argue with opinion against such fact is just folly.

 

Show club facts, aps/ goals.

National, same.

Honours.

 

Simple.

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Bazzas right boot

 

It helps when your surrounded by some of the worlds best players at that time.

So he was good in World Cups, wouldn't disagree with that at all, but so was Maradona. Santos began to be seen as the best team in the world in 56 (the year before Pele). When Pel? made his debut in the Campeonato Paulista in 1957, the team was already twice state champions. Santos won the third state title in 50 years, the magical year of 1958 ? in which Brazil became world champion in Sweden, with Zito Santos, Pel? and Pepe, and won in spectacular fashion. The team scored 143 goals in 38 games, averaging 3.76 per game. Only 40 goals were scored against them. Traditional rivals were massacred in 1958, particularly 10?0 against the Nacional. In addition to state titles, the Santos won the Rio-S?o Paulo in 1959, beating Vasco in the final by 3?0 with two goals by Coutinho, who was only 16 years old at the time. Coutinho also scored five goals against Ponte Preta, and Santos won the game by 12?1 even without Pel?. No other team had a prevalence in Brazilian football as great as Santos in the 1960s. The club won eight titles: six Brazilian Championships (five Ta?a Brasil and one Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa), two Copas Libertadores, two Intercontinental Cups, three Rio-S?o Paulo, a South American Recopa. On two occasions ? against Germany and England ? the national team had eight Santos players in the team. In six games of qualifying for the 1970 World Cup "The beasts of the Saldanha" played with six Santos players : Carlos Alberto, Djalma Dias, Joel Camargo, Rildo, Pel? and Edu. The influence of Santos was so great that the defense played with the national team the same numbers that were used at Santos: right-back with the shirt 4, right center-back with the second, left center-back with the sixth and left-back with three (no wonder they were do good in world cups). This for me is why I rate Maradona higher. He played for different clubs lifting them to titles, even though they didn't have the best players and went up against the best from all over the world throughout his career. Pele on the other hand stayed with Santos, who were the best team with the best players, winning games by ridiculous score lines of 10-0 and even 12-1 without him on the park, before moving on to the Mickey Mouse MLS. The mere fact that every time Pele is brought up on tv, we have to watch his fabulous miss, as some amazing highlight of his career, surely there must be masses of stuff we could watch of him that's better. Yes, he was amazing and one of the greatest ever, but Maradona stands head and shoulders above them all imo.

 

Just in case someone hasn't seen it, here you go...

IMG_2880.gif

Nowt wrong with staying with a team.

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luckyBatistuta

Nowt wrong with staying with a team.

I'm not saying there is bud, but your saying Pele is better because of club stats,goals etc. He spent his career forever playing in the best team, with the best players and up against Mickey Mouse teams, therefore banging in ridiculous amounts of goals and winning honours for doing so. They won games 10-0 and 12-1 and scoring 143 goals in 38 games. It was hardly top opposition they were up against. Christ, you could go into Arab leagues and take titles/goals and say they were better than top stars over the years going by those stats. I'm going by what I've seen with my own eyes and Maradona is untouchable on that basis.

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Bazzas right boot

I'm not saying there is bud, but your saying Pele is better because of club stats,goals etc. He spent his career forever playing in the best team, with the best players and up against Mickey Mouse teams, therefore banging in ridiculous amounts of goals and winning honours for doing so. They won games 10-0 and 12-1 and scoring 143 goals in 38 games. It was hardly top opposition they were up against. Christ, you could go into Arab leagues and take titles/goals and say they were better than top stars over the years going by those stats. I'm going by what I've seen with my own eyes and Maradona is untouchable on that basis.

Fair doos, if Arab guys had won world cups multiple times you might have a case for them to be considered as well.

 

I get your point, but you can't just disregard his world cups in making your point.

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What a load of nonsense.

 

The 86 Argentina side was packed with good players, it became a myth much later that they were all shite because Argentina - the country - was royally Donald Ducked, so they were feeling inadequate on an international scale. So they started a campaign to make out that Maradona was better than Pele - the reality is that even after 86 most Argentineans still thought Pele was better. This has all been documented, but anybody who is still stupid enough to think that the rest of the Argentina side in 86 were crap just needs to look at the names on the teamsheet and who they played for to realise how dumb they're being.

 

The best ever Argentina side was 2010, and what happened to them? Handed their sphincters deep-fried on a plate to them by Germany.

:facepalm: Pele is pish compared to Maradona. Pele and his make believe goal scoring record.
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Maradona was unbelievably good.  So was Pele.  Different eras, different teams.  Both brilliant.

 

Maradona vs Pele

Di Stefano vs Puskas

Platini vs Zidane

Crujff vs Gullit

Messi vs Ronaldo

Hartley vs Cameron

 

All the greatest debates in football, and all about opinions...

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luckyBatistuta

Fair doos, if Arab guys had won world cups multiple times you might have a case for them to be considered as well.

I get your point, but you can't just disregard his world cups in making your point.

I'm not disregarding his achievements, yes in the world cups he was fantastic. There is no doubting how good he was personally in them, but he had the best/one of the best teams around him during them. The rest of his career is questionable imo, as he never played in a top league, so that has to stand against someone who is being considered as the best there is/was. Besides the World Cup videos, where is all the footage of the games throughout his careeer and what were you watching for you personally to rate him as the greatest of all time.

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Maradona was unbelievably good. So was Pele. Different eras, different teams. Both brilliant.

 

Maradona vs Pele

Di Stefano vs Puskas

Platini vs Zidane

Crujff vs Gullit

Messi vs Ronaldo

Hartley vs Cameron

 

All the greatest debates in football, and all about opinions...

Fwiw...

 

Pele

Puskas

Zidane

Cruyff

Ronaldo

Cameron

 

:)

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luckyBatistuta

Fwiw...

Pele

Puskas

Zidane

Cruyff

Ronaldo

Cameron

:)

Maradona

Puskas

Zidane

Cruyff

Messi

Cameron

 

We agree on 4 out of 6, not too bad. Loved the wee man for us.

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Maradona

Puskas

Zidane

Cruyff

Messi

Cameron

 

We agree on 4 out of 6, not too bad. Loved the wee man for us.

apart from di Stefano being better than puskas I agree
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  • 1 month later...
Mikey1874

Great news for all fans of football

 

Messi 4 match ban has been overturned

 

Argentina now back on track to qualify for World Cup

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Bowmans_Boot

Great news for all fans of football

 

Messi 4 match ban has been overturned

 

Argentina now back on track to qualify for World Cup

Rightly so. A victory for justice, fair play and football.

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...a bit disco

Rightly so. A victory for justice, fair play and football.

 

Indeed.

 

Farcical decision in the first place.

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Bazzas right boot

Fwiw...

 

Pele

Puskas

Zidane

Cruyff

Ronaldo

Cameron

 

:)

Things folk like eusibio (sp) and best could have a shout as well.

 

Buffon, Maldini, tbh the list Could go on.

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Jamboelite

Maradona was unbelievably good. So was Pele. Different eras, different teams. Both brilliant.

 

Maradona vs Pele

Di Stefano vs Puskas

Platini vs Zidane

Crujff vs Gullit

Messi vs Ronaldo

Hartley vs Cameron

 

All the greatest debates in football, and all about opinions...

Correct there is no right answer just opinion.

 

It was Pele though :-)

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