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Indy Ref Part Deux


Armageddon

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The question will be posed. Just wait and see.

 

Interesting thought. 

 

I would say that a lot of Brexit voters that the SNP shunned up here voted "Yes" last time, so the SNP have probably lost these people this time.  In terms of percentage I could see that being at least 10%, which would be significant.

 

There will be a lot of variables like that this time around.

Yes voters who don't want the Euro.

Yes voters who think that the financial outlook is even worse now that cheap oil is everywhere.

No voters who are against Brexit.

Hard to say what effect those will have.

The world seems to be lurching to the right, xenophobia and conservatism which in Scotland means No voting, Tory party and Brexit. 

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Nookie Bear

And illogical.

In what way is it illogical?

 

The outcome of the referendum would have slight impact on you, but you will not be directly affected by it.

 

Why not move to Scotland in time to vote?

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Fantastic, there's Jimmy Krankie's excuse to not actually govern the country for the next 18 months!

 

 

Surely peeople are going to start resenting all this bullshit.  We have enough on our plate and they are throwing this shite at us.  

 

The country completely hates one another - no joke, and this time I think it will get VERY VERY nasty.

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kingantti1874

What happens when it's a no? Sturgeon resign? hopefully the Scottish electorate will wake up and stop giving these clowns a platform for their pish.

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And illogical.

If the SNP thought it would help the Nationalism cause they would. Bit like when they became left wing or pro Europe.
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What happens when it's a no? Sturgeon resign? hopefully the Scottish electorate will wake up and stop giving these clowns a platform for their pish.

 

Someone takes over and it all starts again till they get their way.

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Hard to say. We have a lot of Polish, Greek and Spanish in Edinburgh. I think the more interesting question is whether or not they will be allowed to vote this time.

If they're not allowed, then neither will rUKers be.

So, they'll be voting.

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I have absolutely zero confidence in Scottish No voting people suddenly voting Yes and agreeing to use the Euro.

 

 

Pound v Euro

Controlled immigration against unlimited immigration

 

Sturgeon has a speech an hour a go, and already policy regards the currency is known?

 

The Euro, yeah?  Right you are then.  That's the same Euro that Sweden agreed to use when they signed up to the EU?  Cool.

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I think another big EU country will have opted out by then so the appeal for EU membership will be less appealing.

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Psychedelicropcircle

They did express it (VERY clearly) in the ballot box, 2 and a half years ago.

Yes I remember Nick clegg saying that a clear majority 55-45 said no.....I also heard him say the 48% who voted to remain are being ignored....just goes to show 3% makes a difference when it suits like eh.

 

Bring it.

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No in 2014 but open to persuasion. Definite no this time round. 

 

So bad for Scottish business and everything else as the SNP again will take their eye off the ball to focus on this. 

 

Look forward to seeing the bare facts SNP-style about the challenges independence will give us. I suspect it will be as flawed as the White Paper was

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AlphonseCapone

I think another big EU country will have opted out by then so the appeal for EU membership will be less appealing.

Which one?

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You expecting Le Pen to win in France?

 

 

I think there is an outside chance - I hope she does.  You know how it goes by now. People are staying silent until they get the pen in their hand.

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Jambo-Jimbo

I would say that a lot of Brexit voters that the SNP shunned up here voted "Yes" last time, so the SNP have probably lost these people this time.  In terms of percentage I could see that being at least 10%, which would be significant.

 

Might be more than 10% as there was a poll done recently, which in fairness must be treated with caution, however it showed that around 30% of Yes voters the last time around voted to leave the EU, a lot of these people will be unlikely to vote for Independence if it means re-joining the EU, you can include me in that figure.

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Placid Casual

I think there is an outside chance - I hope she does.  You know how it goes by now. People are staying silent until they get the pen in their hand.

 

You hope Le Pen wins??

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Yes/No Question thrown open to all Scots living in the UK this time around?

 

That ****ed me off last time.

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I think another big EU country will have opted out by then so the appeal for EU membership will be less appealing.

Who cares, it's Indy time.

Ashamed to be Scottish, shame on you.

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That ****ed me off last time.

 

That ****ed me off last time.

 

 

Spanish and Poles helping to determine our future.

 

:facepalm:

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Who cares, it's Indy time.

Ashamed to be Scottish, shame on you.

 

 

But I vote "No" aussieh so I am not Scottish anyway right?

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Might be more than 10% as there was a poll done recently, which in fairness must be treated with caution, however it showed that around 30% of Yes voters the last time around voted to leave the EU, a lot of these people will be unlikely to vote for Independence if it means re-joining the EU, you can include me in that figure.

 

How many Brexit voting YES voters did so in the attempt to lead us to where we are today?  Or am I being to cynically machiavellian?

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jambo lodge

UK Government will say no until Brexit is complete and the UK is out of the EU.Scotland will the have to apply for EU membership.

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Looking at this thread, think I'll abstain.

 

Both sides full of absolute wallopers.

It'll get worse mate. Absolutely no chance of a grown up debate. Name calling and flag waving.
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Why should people living, working and contributing in Scotland NOT get a vote?

 

And why should Scottish ex-pats who don't contribute get one?

 

This isn't about race, heritage or nationality. It's about the people who live here being the ones who have the say-so on how the place is run.

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luckyBatistuta

Spanish and Poles helping to determine our future.

 

:facepalm:

Exactly, I wonder which way they will be voting...hmmm?
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I think there is an outside chance - I hope she does. You know how it goes by now. People are staying silent until they get the pen in their hand.

Good god man, the woman is a facist. How can you hope for an extremist like that to get power?
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I feel sorry for Scotland.

 

Hugely divisive self-serving decision from sturgeon.

 

Scotland knew there was to be a EU referendum at the last independence vote and the country voted to stay in the U.K. thereby accepting that the Scottish vote in the EU referendum would be as part of the U.K. one.Scotland thus voted to accept the EU vote.

 

'Scotland' therefore did not vote to remain.

 

Scottish politicians are no different from Westminster one's.

 

Power corrupts all.

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Surely to god this has to be the last roll of the dice, at least for the foreseeable future.

On what basis?

 

It's a real losers stance being adopted by Sturgeon.

 

The SNP will always be able to invent a 'material change' if they do it with this.

 

See my above post - Scotland as a matter of fact voted to stay in the U.K. and therefore accept the EU vote.

 

Eyes wide open.

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But I vote "No" aussieh so I am not Scottish anyway right?

Your chance of redemption. You voted to leave the EU , but won't vote leave from the real oppressive Parliament WM.

EU doesn't mean Europeans

WM doesn't mean the English.

 

Time we ran our own show, good or bad. No UK rule and when that's done we decide on the EU too. We can do it simultaneously. Indy yes or no, EU yes or no. But I don't see why if Scotland had a yes vote in 2014 that England kept the EU membership and Scotland can't do the same now England has their so called Indy from Europe. Total bollox

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Placid Casual

C'mon now. The big man plays this game a lot, and folk are still biting to it.

 

:lol:

 

I'm more interested in how he thought Hearts played at the weekend...

 

I try not to waste more than one line per post on the guy :)

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Jambo-Jimbo

What happens when it's a no? Sturgeon resign? hopefully the Scottish electorate will wake up and stop giving these clowns a platform for their pish.

 

What people don't realise is that this is a massive gamble by Sturgeon & the SNP, in more ways than one.

 

If it's a no again, then Sturgeon will have to fall on her sword, that I think most people would agree upon, but there's something more, much more important than this.

 

If it were a no again, that would be twice that the SNP had had an Independence vote and twice it had been beaten and had failed to deliver to the Scottish people the very thing it's whole existence, it's whole being is founded upon.

In that case I would think the SNP would find it difficult to persuade the Scottish electorate that it was still relevant any more, I just think it would be the beginning of the end, because Scotland isn't going to get a third chance, certainly not for the next 20 or 30 years or more.

Equally if it were a yes vote, then the SNP could end up as relevant as UKIP is now.

 

Of course this is all just speculation at the moment.

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doctor jambo

If I was May  I'd call it for the summer

Have it NOW

this is goosing the Scottish economy

Then Sturgeon can  quit, and the SNP can get on with serving the Scottish people, as opposed to themselves

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No matter the side of the fence you stand, she is 100% correct to ask the nation again given the EU circumstances have changed.  The original vote was based on that promise from Westminster (as well as oil from Eck's side of the argument).

 

Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU.

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jack D and coke

Hard to say. We have a lot of Polish, Greek and Spanish in Edinburgh. I think the more interesting question is whether or not they will be allowed to vote this time.

In my personal opinion they shouldn't vote even if they're allowed one. If I lived in another country regardless of how long I'd lived there I'd show some respect and abstain. This is too deep rooted and emotional for people from other countries to understand for me.

I also feel scots all over the world should be allowed a vote. This isn't an everyday decision it is truly monumental.

Just my opinion though I'm sure others feel very different.

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Ibrahim Tall

Spanish and Poles helping to determine our future.

 

:facepalm:

Atleast the "Spanish and Poles" are living in the country, working here and contributing in tax etc and spending money in the UK commercial sector. Most even own property here. Entirely fair they get a vote on THEIR future.

 

Same can't be said for a lot Scots who've went abroad for various reasons, however they'd vote.

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UK Government will say no until Brexit is complete and the UK is out of the EU.Scotland will the have to apply for EU membership.

 

I think that would be understandable - I'd prefer to see what impact Brexit has on the UK before I make a decision in an indy ref - but I'm not sure WM would want to give the pro-indy parties the opportunity to complain about WM interference. Ideally I'd have the indy ref with 3 options: Leave the UK & join the EU, Leave the UK and remain out of the EU, Stay in the UK out of the EU.

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Jambo-Jimbo

How many Brexit voting YES voters did so in the attempt to lead us to where we are today?  Or am I being to cynically machiavellian?

 

That's the thing Boris, there are multiple scenarios at play here, probably one or two none of us have even thought about yet.

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It'll get worse mate. Absolutely no chance of a grown up debate. Name calling and flag waving.

:flag2: Arseholes!

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Might be more than 10% as there was a poll done recently, which in fairness must be treated with caution, however it showed that around 30% of Yes voters the last time around voted to leave the EU, a lot of these people will be unlikely to vote for Independence if it means re-joining the EU, you can include me in that figure.

Or you could look at the remain vote and see it that 30% of no voters/non voters voted remain.(in that the pro Indy and pro EU vote were similar numbers) And when it comes to the crunch that those 30% of Yes supporters of the leave vote will vote yes again.

The big swing will come from the 16 to 25 year old no voters, who are big pro EU.

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jack D and coke

Atleast the "Spanish and Poles" are living in the country, working here and contributing in tax etc and spending money in the UK commercial sector. Most even own property here. Entirely fair they get a vote on THEIR future.

 

Same can't be said for a lot Scots who've went abroad for various reasons, however they'd vote.

I can understand that point of view but I still don't think any of them would truly understand the gravity of the decision. They might vote purely for EU reasons and not because of ties to the uk etc.

Imagine I voted for Catalonia to remain part of Spain? It's not right imo it's nothing to do with me I can leave if it doesn't work out.

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I can understand that point of view but I still don't think any of them would truly understand the gravity of the decision. They might vote purely for EU reasons and not because of ties to the uk etc.

Imagine I voted for Catalonia to remain part of Spain? It's not right imo it's nothing to do with me I can leave if it doesn't work out.

What about rUK? It's not their business either going by Brexit voting regs.
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Or you could look at the remain vote and see it that 30% of no voters/non voters voted remain. And when it comes to the crunch that those 30% of Yes supporters of the leave vote will vote yes again.

The big swing will come from the 16 to 25 year old no voters, who are big pro EU.

 

I think you are vastly over-estimating that segment of the vote.  The media has made a big play on youngsters who want to study or work abroad in their reporting of that age range.  However I don't think that will amount to very many people.

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SwindonJambo

I predict a much nastier campaign than last time with lies told by both sides and the winner doing so by a narrow margin with a huge amount of bitterness, resentment and in-denial non acceptance (a la Brexit except about 100 times worse) from the losing side afterwards whoever that is.  It will divide Scotland for sure.

 

For Independence to be a success it has to be by a decisive margin of say 60-40 and that point the vast majority of the no voters would accept being in the minority and get on board.  A 51-49 or 52-48 winning margin will simply divide the country like never before. If the economy floundered then a huge chunk of those able to will simply leave.

 

I love my country and will always identify as a Scot no matter where I live but I fear for the next few years ahead.  I just hope for a good outcome for Scotland regardless of who wins.  The economy is not currently performling well and that needs addressed. Oil is gone.

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