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Seymour M Hersh
5 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Can always count on your invaluable input Seymour. Keep it coming. Theres a good lad. 

 

Makes a hell of a lot more sense than your rants and vitriolic abuse! :thumbsup:

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Governor Tarkin
48 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Best you get on with making the teas and doing the sandwich runs at lunch for the real engineers in that office GT. :lol:

 

I bet you think Swarfega is some sort of posh German dessert. :)

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Swing and miss, chump.

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Space Mackerel
8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

:lol:

 

Swing and miss, chump.

 

As we used to say:

”I was on the main gate when you were on Cow & Gate”

 

I think we know where this conversation is going :)

 

Dont be a Dunphy...please. 

 

 

 

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Governor Tarkin
3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

As we used to say:

”I was on the main gate when you were on Cow & Gate”

 

I think we know where this conversation is going :)

 

Dont be a Dunphy...please. 

 

 

 

 

There's not going to be a conversation, mate, apart from the ones in your head.

 

:)

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Space Mackerel
1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

There's not going to be a conversation, mate, apart from the ones in your head.

 

:)

 

Sounds like you’ve changed your tune from being a leading expert in engineering and marine sub sea development.

 

Ill have 2 sugars and a dash of milk ta muchly. NATO standard. :)

 

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Space Mackerel
3 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

the nationalist way, 

 

You got it, 50% or more, 2- 5 years and coming. 

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AuldReekie444
Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

You got it, 50% or more, 2- 5 years and coming. 

 i just farted, wasn't just your reply. 

 

no, i meant the the nationalist way is what people like you Space Mackerel do, in place of debate.

 

 

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Governor Tarkin
16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Sounds like you’ve changed your tune from being a leading expert in engineering and marine sub sea development.

 

Ill have 2 sugars and a dash of milk ta muchly. NATO standard. :)

 

 

Can you supply direct quotes for when I claimed to be either of those things please, Spacey. 

 

Ta muchley.

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Space Mackerel
6 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

 i just farted, wasn't just your reply. 

 

no, i meant the the nationalist way is what people like you Space Mackerel do, in place of debate.

 

 

 

Im still trying to work your rational that makes English MP’s from the South Coast override the democratic, by weight of numbers, the will of the people who stay up here. 

 

Utterly mental train of thought. 

 

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AuldReekie444
1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Im still trying to work your rational that makes English MP’s from the South Coast override the democratic, by weight of numbers, the will of the people who stay up here. 

 

Utterly mental train of thought. 

 

You just shat yourself son.

 

 

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Space Mackerel
Just now, AuldReekie444 said:

You just shat yourself son.

 

 

 

Its all over pal, Union will be gone in a few years. 

It’s for the best. 

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AuldReekie444
1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Its all over pal, Union will be gone in a few years. 

It’s for the best. 

 

Nicola Sturgeons wet dream

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Space Mackerel
2 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

 

Nicola Sturgeons wet dream

 

Sorta turned into Unionists wet dream nowadays? 

 

Still perplexed why you love old German lady that’s never been voted into power. Bizarre stuff that carry on. 

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7 hours ago, Boris said:

At what cost to the patient? 

 

Is it ethical to make profit out of illness? 

 

None of them really do though. There's a huge question of how you fund healthcare and social care services. Perhaps we should consider the more European system of charging for more mundane services or a system of social insurance paid by a mix of worker and employer contributions.

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AuldReekie444
Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

Sorta turned into Unionists wet dream nowadays? 

 

Still perplexed why you love old German lady that’s never been voted into power. Bizarre stuff that carry on. 

 

are you a baby?

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Thunderstruck
15 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Im still trying to work your rational that makes English MP’s from the South Coast override the democratic, by weight of numbers, the will of the people who stay up here. 

 

Utterly mental train of thought. 

 

 

If (and it’s a vanishingly small possibility) you get your independence, you will find that Scotland will dance to the Weegie tune as that is where the weight of numbers are to be found. Half of Scotland’s population lives within a 20 mile radius of Glasgow Central Station. 

 

If that doesn't suit Edinburgh or Aberdeen or Shetland they will just have to grin and bear it. It will be like football with the GFA. 

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Space Mackerel
7 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

If (and it’s a vanishingly small possibility) you get your independence, you will find that Scotland will dance to the Weegie tune as that is where the weight of numbers are to be found. Half of Scotland’s population lives within a 20 mile radius of Glasgow Central Station. 

 

If that doesn't suit Edinburgh or Aberdeen or Shetland they will just have to grin and bear it. It will be like football with the GFA. 

 

I have no idea why you would seethe like that on the back of 5.5 million people taking back proper democracy for their country after 300 odd years. 

 

You have to be a bam pot to even question this. Utterly bizarre behaviour. 

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AuldReekie444
4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I have no idea why you would seethe like that on the back of 5.5 million people taking back proper democracy for their country after 300 odd years. 

 

You have to be a bam pot to even question this. Utterly bizarre behaviour. 

seriously, are you a baby.

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Space Mackerel
4 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

seriously, are you a baby.

 

Dude, please, this thread is all about how the neo Cons lie through their arse.

 

You should be going to school on the points raised. Baby or not. 

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Thunderstruck
1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I have no idea why you would seethe like that on the back of 5.5 million people taking back proper democracy for their country after 300 odd years. 

 

You have to be a bam pot to even question this. Utterly bizarre behaviour. 

 

It’s not seethe, it’s what is called electoral arithmetic. Roughly 2m voters in Greater Glasgow, roughly 2m voters in the rest of the country combined. 

 

If you think that is not going to influence decision making, it’s time to lay off the Vin Tonique. 

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AuldReekie444
1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Dude, please, this thread is all about how the neo Cons lie through their arse.

 

You should be going to school on the points raised. Baby or not. 

do you need a potty?

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Space Mackerel
18 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It’s not seethe, it’s what is called electoral arithmetic. Roughly 2m voters in Greater Glasgow, roughly 2m voters in the rest of the country combined. 

 

If you think that is not going to influence decision making, it’s time to lay off the Vin Tonique. 

Lot of roughly going on now. 

 

Why do you not want more government more electorally accountable? Seems daft that train of thought.

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24 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It’s not seethe, it’s what is called electoral arithmetic. Roughly 2m voters in Greater Glasgow, roughly 2m voters in the rest of the country combined. 

 

If you think that is not going to influence decision making, it’s time to lay off the Vin Tonique. 

 

 

Does that mean that you think the best way to stop 2 million voters in and around Glasgow from strong-arming the rest of Scotland is to have them strong-armed by 44 million people from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland?

 

Is democracy all about strong-arming?

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AuldReekie444
12 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Lot of roughly going on now. 

 

Why do you not want more government more electorally accountable? Seems daft that train of thought.

did your teacher say train of thought Space Mackerel?

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AuldReekie444
8 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Does that mean that you think the best way to stop 2 million voters in and around Glasgow from strong-arming the rest of Scotland is to have them strong-armed by 44 million people from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland?

 

Is democracy all about strong-arming?

Of course it is Ulysses. 

Power is power.

Our democracy is the best attempt yet, to widen the range  of people who choose it. 

 

I bless each moment I am not ruled by stupid Glaswegians. 

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8 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

None of them really do though. There's a huge question of how you fund healthcare and social care services. Perhaps we should consider the more European system of charging for more mundane services or a system of social insurance paid by a mix of worker and employer contributions.

 

Yeah, maybe call it something like, I don't know, national insurance contributions?

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14 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Top tip, don’t make baseless claims if you can’t or won’t back them up. 

WTF are you on about?

 

you showed that Scotgov pay £72m a year on private contracts to the NHS that is 7% less than the previous year. 

 

I showed you the Tiries spend 43 times that much (£3.1Bn & rising year on year). 

 

Not sure what NHS trusts have got to do with anything? Perhaps you can enlighten me.

 

Fact is the tories are slowly privatising the NHS in England & given half the chance they would do the same up here. 

 

Deal with those facts tory boy. 

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10 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Makes a hell of a lot more sense than your rants and vitriolic abuse! :thumbsup:

Abuse?

I havent given you any abuse you arse piece 

:laugh:

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Thunderstruck
7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Does that mean that you think the best way to stop 2 million voters in and around Glasgow from strong-arming the rest of Scotland is to have them strong-armed by 44 million people from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland?

 

Is democracy all about strong-arming?

 

Of course it isn’t as well you know and I’m sure you also know that, within England, the same tensions exist - the “inside/outside the M25” or the “North/south of the Watford Gap”. 

 

However, suggesting that independence is the cure for that ill is to suggest that the remainder of Scotland should split itself from Greater Glasgow to be truly independent and so on ad absurdum. 

 

The cure is localisation of powers within a national framework - what is called “devolution”. However, for that to work properly, it needs to be at relatively local levels not on blocs the size of the Home Nations. 

 

That local devolution is precisely what is happening in England and precisely the opposite of what is now happening within Scotland where more and more local decision making and control is being stripped away to Edinburgh.  

 

Is it not ironic that the group baying loudly about “power grabs” is the one grabbing powers within Scotland. 

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Thunderstruck
20 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

WTF are you on about?

 

you showed that Scotgov pay £72m a year on private contracts to the NHS that is 7% less than the previous year. 

 

I showed you the Tiries spend 43 times that much (£3.1Bn & rising year on year). 

 

Not sure what NHS trusts have got to do with anything? Perhaps you can enlighten me.

 

Fact is the tories are slowly privatising the NHS in England & given half the chance they would do the same up here. 

 

Deal with those facts tory boy. 

 

We had already established that the PRINCIPLE of private sector involvement in CARE exists in Scotland despite your party’s claimed stance. You now seem to accept that, albeit grudgingly.

 

You stated that NHS Hospitals in England were increasingly in private hands and you were asked to front up with a list of NHS hospitals in England that are not run by an NHS Trust. 

 

You clearly can’t so go to your default setting of hurling abuse. If that’s what floats your boat, crack on

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Seymour M Hersh
28 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Abuse?

I havent given you any abuse you arse piece 

:laugh:

 

Your rather vile comments regarding Conservatives is what i'm referring to not personal abuse of me. 

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25 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Of course it isn’t as well you know and I’m sure you also know that, within England, the same tensions exist - the “inside/outside the M25” or the “North/south of the Watford Gap”. 

 

However, suggesting that independence is the cure for that ill is to suggest that the remainder of Scotland should split itself from Greater Glasgow to be truly independent and so on ad absurdum. 

 

The cure is localisation of powers within a national framework - what is called “devolution”. However, for that to work properly, it needs to be at relatively local levels not on blocs the size of the Home Nations. 

 

That local devolution is precisely what is happening in England and precisely the opposite of what is now happening within Scotland where more and more local decision making and control is being stripped away to Edinburgh.  

 

Is it not ironic that the group baying loudly about “power grabs” is the one grabbing powers within Scotland. 

 

Spot on. I'm so jealous of the devolution handed out to cities like Manchester. All made possible by George Osborne I believe, and the City of Manchester appears to be taking full advantage of it.

 

The thought of Edinburgh tethering itself to a benchmark set by Glasweigan standards is terrifying.

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2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Yeah, maybe call it something like, I don't know, national insurance contributions?

 

NICs have never been tied to social services including health-care. They just go into general taxation. 

 

It could be used for such purposes bit you would need to massively inflate the contributions to match NHS funding.

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Phil Dunphy

I see Spacey has moved onto this thread after people started asking uncomfortable questions on the SNP one.

 

A shining example of Scottish Nationalism.

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1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

We had already established that the PRINCIPLE of private sector involvement in CARE exists in Scotland despite your party’s claimed stance. You now seem to accept that, albeit grudgingly.

 

You stated that NHS Hospitals in England were increasingly in private hands and you were asked to front up with a list of NHS hospitals in England that are not run by an NHS Trust. 

 

You clearly can’t so go to your default setting of hurling abuse. If that’s what floats your boat, crack on

What does it matter if they are being ran by NHS trusts or not? The fact is they are soending Billions on the private sector. A fact you cant or wont face up to. 

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Ministry MK2
11 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Its all over pal, Union will be gone in a few years. 

It’s for the best. 

This was also said a lot post September 2014. But here we are.

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1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Of course it isn’t as well you know and I’m sure you also know that, within England, the same tensions exist - the “inside/outside the M25” or the “North/south of the Watford Gap”. 

 

However, suggesting that independence is the cure for that ill is to suggest that the remainder of Scotland should split itself from Greater Glasgow to be truly independent and so on ad absurdum. 

 

The cure is localisation of powers within a national framework - what is called “devolution”. However, for that to work properly, it needs to be at relatively local levels not on blocs the size of the Home Nations. 

 

That local devolution is precisely what is happening in England and precisely the opposite of what is now happening within Scotland where more and more local decision making and control is being stripped away to Edinburgh.  

 

Is it not ironic that the group baying loudly about “power grabs” is the one grabbing powers within Scotland. 

 

Local government in Scotland has been denigrated for nearly 40 years.

 

In my eyes the 32 unitary authorities are a nonsense of faceless politicians that no one could identify in a police line up.

 

Best thing to do would be to combine Edinburgh with parts of Midlothian, West Lothian and East Lothian to form a "Greater Edinburgh Authority" with an elected mayor and greater powers of local services, taxes and health and education services. The same would apply for the big cities of Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness and Glasgow. The rest are grouped into bigger authorities - i.e. one authority for Ayrshire and for Lanarkshire - with the same powers as the big cities but with area councils beneath them to feed into decisions.

 

A Mayor would be a focal point in each region, directly elected and well known able to stand up to the government and be a champion of the area.

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1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Your rather vile comments regarding Conservatives is what i'm referring to not personal abuse of me. 

Tories are not bery nice people as has been well established over the last 40 odd years. 

 

Self interested racists who harbour and protect child abusers and condemn the vulnerable to a life of suffering. Thats not abuse, its accurate. 

 

I have more respect for vermin. 

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Ministry MK2
6 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Tories are not bery nice people as has been well established over the last 40 odd years. 

 

Self interested racists who harbour and protect child abusers and condemn the vulnerable to a life of suffering. Thats not abuse, its accurate. 

 

I have more respect for vermin. 

Which party do you support?

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Trapper John McIntyre
21 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Tories are not bery nice people as has been well established over the last 40 odd years. 

 

Self interested racists who harbour and protect child abusers and condemn the vulnerable to a life of suffering. Thats not abuse, its accurate. 

 

I have more respect for vermin. 

 

Have you booked that holiday yet?

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11 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It’s not seethe, it’s what is called electoral arithmetic. Roughly 2m voters in Greater Glasgow, roughly 2m voters in the rest of the country combined. 

 

If you think that is not going to influence decision making, it’s time to lay off the Vin Tonique. 

 

Why is that bad but the swollen English population deciding for the rest is not?

 

Huge hole in that argument?

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Thunderstruck
Just now, Alan_R said:

 

Why is that bad but the swollen English population deciding for the rest is not?

 

Huge hole in that argument?

 

Please see later posts. 

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7 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Please see later posts. 

 

The arguement for devolution in itself is good. But the Tories asset stripping and trying to remove powers and undermine will the Scottish voters puts that arguement to bed too.

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Thunderstruck
42 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Local government in Scotland has been denigrated for nearly 40 years.

 

In my eyes the 32 unitary authorities are a nonsense of faceless politicians that no one could identify in a police line up.

 

Best thing to do would be to combine Edinburgh with parts of Midlothian, West Lothian and East Lothian to form a "Greater Edinburgh Authority" with an elected mayor and greater powers of local services, taxes and health and education services. The same would apply for the big cities of Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness and Glasgow. The rest are grouped into bigger authorities - i.e. one authority for Ayrshire and for Lanarkshire - with the same powers as the big cities but with area councils beneath them to feed into decisions.

 

A Mayor would be a focal point in each region, directly elected and well known able to stand up to the government and be a champion of the area.

 

In my view, there was a lot more that was right than wrong in the Regional/Local Council model that we had from 1974 to 1996. The Regional functions such as Education, Social Work and Transport gave a good mix of local input and national coordination.

 

A lot of good work was done in that time and, for example, Strathclyde Passenger Transport did a tremendous amount to build and integrate public transport. 

 

It’s true that the regions weren’t always a good mix - Argyll with Glasgow was not as good a fit as Argyll with Highland might have been. 

 

The Unitary Authorities (with Joint Boards for certain functions like Police) from 96 was a fudge designed to facilitate the Scottish Parliament. It wasn’t helped by erosion of powers and centralisation of funding resources and some of these Councils are not gods fits with communities as a look at various Boundary Commission reviews will highlight. 

 

The neutering of Councils by this Scottish Government is nothing short of scandalous and now it seems that the local planning powers are being eroded. 

 

I have said several times before that the Scottish Parliament is a political sop that doesn’t really address the needs and demands of Scots. I would prefer proper regionalisation or federalism within the U.K. and in Europe. 

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Thunderstruck
13 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

 

The arguement for devolution in itself is good. But the Tories asset stripping and trying to remove powers and undermine will the Scottish voters puts that arguement to bed too.

 

They are not stripping powers - nobody can name a single power that has been “stripped”. 

 

You could also consider the “Localisation” agenda in England. It is the antithesis of the power-grabbing currently happening in Scotland.  

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Just now, Thunderstruck said:

 

They are not stripping powers - nobody can name a single power that has been “stripped”. 

 

You could also consider the “Localisation” agenda in England. It is the antithesis of the power-grabbing currently happening in Scotland.  

 

You direct quoted me yet still completely misread. 

 

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Thunderstruck
1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

What does it matter if they are being ran by NHS trusts or not? The fact is they are soending Billions on the private sector. A fact you cant or wont face up to. 

 

I suggest you go back and read earlier posts or, better still, start reading posts full stop. 

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Thunderstruck
21 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

 

The arguement for devolution in itself is good. But the Tories asset stripping and trying to remove powers and undermine will the Scottish voters puts that arguement to bed too.

 

2 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

 

You direct quoted me yet still completely misread. 

 

 

As you should now see, I was referring to your inference that powers were being stripped. 

 

My second paragraph was to reinforce the point that power-stripping is a local, Scottish phenomenon in contrast with England (under the “hated” Tories) where proper devolution continues to expand. 

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