Ozturk - I'll remember the good times

[Paris 84]

Robbie's hearts career went tits up at the last cup game to be played prior to that one.

I don't think I've ever read a poster on here who makes as many references to terrible games for the club than you. What is it you get out of it? If you're not harping back to the Scottish Cup game it's the Europa League defeat. Then to cap it all on the Raith Rovers thread you take a dig at the fans. For someone who joined the forum only a few months ago, you've racked up some amount of posts, the vast majority of which are negative or trying to be controversial. Why?

[RudiHMFC]

You can't make somebody brave and aggressive though, it has to come from within. We got away with it in the Championship.

Then in the Premiership where he made team of the year.

[Thought Police]

I'm trying to imagine Neilson losing it. How many octaves up from mumble can he go?

This is what annoyed me about a lot of the Neilson Out arguments. So many fans just assuming his management style from his interviews when you're supposed to come across as positive and calm. Wish fans would stop pretending that they know what happens behind the scenes.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

You can't make somebody brave and aggressive though, it has to come from within. We got away with it in the Championship.

I would have liked to see him beside a Pressley type defender. I'd have Ozturk over Rossi and Souttar currently. Would have loved to see him beside Hughes.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Then in the Premiership where he made team of the year.

Who was that picked by?

[We_are_the_Hearts]

I would have liked to see him beside a Pressley type defender. I'd have Ozturk over Rossi and Souttar currently. Would have loved to see him beside Hughes.

Not for me. Beside Hughes we need someone who is going to be on the front foot, be aggressive and go and win the ball and make tackles while Hughes organises and reads. 

[loveofthegame]

Neilson feeling the pressure from an embarrassing Europa league defeat, loss to Celtic on day 1, out of the League Cup with an away fixture at Aberdeen to come.... loses the plot after Alim costs us the game.

 

Sounds like a man under huge pressure who cracked. Doesn't reflect well on Neilson at all.

 

As others have said, he had a ruthless streak in him that sometimes felt like he acted completely on a whim and that once his mind was made up, his mind was made up. Again, reflects badly on him.

[August Landmesser]

I don't think I've ever read a poster on here who makes as many references to terrible games for the club than you. What is it you get out of it? If you're not harping back to the Scottish Cup game it's the Europa League defeat. Then to cap it all on the Raith Rovers thread you take a dig at the fans. For someone who joined the forum only a few months ago, you've racked up some amount of posts, the vast majority of which are negative or trying to be controversial. Why?

Baffling isn't it?

[RudiHMFC]

Who was that picked by?

Fellow players if I remember correctly. We've not been better off without him defensively, we've been worse.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Fellow players if I remember correctly. We've not been better off without him defensively, we've been worse.

Surprised at that. We are defo not better off without him so far but I believe we can do much better.

[RudiHMFC]

Neilson feeling the pressure from an embarrassing Europa league defeat, loss to Celtic on day 1, out of the League Cup with an away fixture at Aberdeen to come.... loses the plot after Alim costs us the game.

 

Sounds like a man under huge pressure who cracked. Doesn't reflect well on Neilson at all.

 

As others have said, he had a ruthless streak in him that sometimes felt like he acted completely on a whim and that once his mind was made up, his mind was made up. Again, reflects badly on him.

Thank God you said Neilson twice there because I was sure you were describing Levein.

[RudiHMFC]

.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Not for me. Beside Hughes we need someone who is going to be on the front foot, be aggressive and go and win the ball and make tackles while Hughes organises and reads.

I just felt Ozturk still had to develop and Hughes would have been the perfect partner alongside him. He is still young and developing himself. Ozturk was clearly a great influence with a positive attitude and great with the younger ones as he himself and Neilson recognised.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

I just felt Ozturk still had to develop and Hughes would have been the perfect partner alongside him. He is still young and developing himself. Ozturk was clearly a great influence with a positive attitude and great with the younger ones as he himself and Neilson recognised.

All opinions mate, just need to agree to disagree 

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

All opinions mate, just need to agree to disagree

Fair enough. It's refreshing to have a debate with a reasonable poster

[May one-six]

I don't think I've ever read a poster on here who makes as many references to terrible games for the club than you. What is it you get out of it? If you're not harping back to the Scottish Cup game it's the Europa League defeat. Then to cap it all on the Raith Rovers thread you take a dig at the fans. For someone who joined the forum only a few months ago, you've racked up some amount of posts, the vast majority of which are negative or trying to be controversial. Why?

I'm sure that Hibs fans who come on here for a wee look will love the fact that mars plastic is still not over it and has to go on about it again and again and again.

[amadjambo]

When you're as bad as Ozturk was in the air it was always destined to end this way.

 

Letting the ball bounce is something usually eliminated in early schoolboy football

Our entire team still allows the ball to bounce.

[JamboJen]

Interesting article. What stood out for me was him not understanding why Robbie was angry at him after St J. Ozturk was absolutely awful in that second half and cost us the game. Him being dropped for the next game was almost unanimously praised by anyone who was at McDiarmid that night.

[Mars plastic]

I don't think I've ever read a poster on here who makes as many references to terrible games for the club than you. What is it you get out of it? If you're not harping back to the Scottish Cup game it's the Europa League defeat. Then to cap it all on the Raith Rovers thread you take a dig at the fans. For someone who joined the forum only a few months ago, you've racked up some amount of posts, the vast majority of which are negative or trying to be controversial. Why?

Would you not say the hibs and Birkakara and hibs games were terrible games likes? They are a stain on our history and Neilson overseen them both. You may not give two hoots about that. I do.

 

Never had a go at anyone in the Raith thread but I'd suggest you're more objective with your opinion as the majority of my posts aren't negative. If my frequent posting irritates you then put me on ignore.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Interesting article. What stood out for me was him not understanding why Robbie was angry at him after St J. Ozturk was absolutely awful in that second half and cost us the game. Him being dropped for the next game was almost unanimously praised by anyone who was at McDiarmid that night.

Dropped would have been fine. crucifying him for it wasn't.

[JamboJen]

Dropped would have been fine. crucifying him for it wasn't.

I didn't say it was

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

I didn't say it was

Fair enough but as Ozturk said he just got on with it even not being captain wasn't the problem it was for being frozen out the team and Robbie's attitude towards him after that.

[Mollo]

Would you not say the hibs and Birkakara and hibs games were terrible games likes? They are a stain on our history and Neilson overseen them both. You may not give two hoots about that. I do.

 

Never had a go at anyone in the Raith thread but I'd suggest you're more objective with your opinion as the majority of my posts aren't negative. If my frequent posting irritates you then put me on ignore.

 

I'm not so sure I'd go as far to say they are 'a stain on our history'! They were awful results - of which we have had many, many, many of in our history just like most clubs.

 

At a time we were waltzing the Championship, getting promted, scoring for fun, qualifying for Europe so soon - I know they stick out a bit as a counter to those good things. But a 'stain'?

 

Guess it's all about opinions.

[Paris 84]

Would you not say the hibs and Birkakara and hibs games were terrible games likes? They are a stain on our history and Neilson overseen them both. You may not give two hoots about that. I do.

 

Never had a go at anyone in the Raith thread but I'd suggest you're more objective with your opinion as the majority of my posts aren't negative. If my frequent posting irritates you then put me on ignore.

Are you saying that a reference to other fans being too scared to go to Parkhead isn't negative? Putting you on ignore is pointless, as you get requoted so often and not in a good way. You've racked up the best part of 1,000 posts in double quick time. The vast majority of those posts you give no opinions, just barbed comments about the club, the manager and/or other fans.

 

As I'm sure you're not a youngster due to some references to older games. I have to ask WTF did you do with your time before you decided to make Kickback your life's work? A thousand posts in just over two months!! And you tell guys to go and get laid FFS?

[hurdie]

Would you not say the hibs and Birkakara and hibs games were terrible games likes? They are a stain on our history and Neilson overseen them both. You may not give two hoots about that. I do.

 

Never had a go at anyone in the Raith thread but I'd suggest you're more objective with your opinion as the majority of my posts aren't negative. If my frequent posting irritates you then put me on ignore.

Drama Queen. What age are you that you think the Hibs game is a stain. Feck me, get a grip.

[rudi must stay]

Neilson shot himself in the foot by turning on Ozturk. That's where we started to digress as we just couldn?t find a back 4 that worked. He brought a calmness and gave us leadership at the back.

 

I found it strange how Cathro never gave him a chance. I wonder if the contract situation annoyed Levein and he wanted him out the door.

Possibly Cathro doesn't rate Ozturk that highly. I liked Ozturk in the championship but in the SPL his passing aside he would struggle, particularly with long balls into the box. But I would have kept him, his passing was majorly underrated in his time here. For a defender he was a superb passer of the ball

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

Possibly Cathro doesn't rate Ozturk that highly. I liked Ozturk in the championship but in the SPL his passing aside he would struggle, particularly with long balls into the box. But I would have kept him, his passing was majorly underrated in his time here. For a defender he was a superb passer of the ball

 

I wonder if Ozturk could have played the role that Cathro has put Nowak in?  Or whether Nowak is considered to be a better player.

[The Comedian]

Mr Levein and his boy showing you how to manage players there. Impressive.

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

Somewhat glosses over the fact he demanded more money. And for him to claim he had "one bad game" is clearly nonsense. His form was non-existent.

 

Nothing against the guy, but he just wasn't that good and was moved on.

[kila]

Mr Levein and his boy showing you how to manage players there. Impressive.

 

Just one side of it mind, though I'd be inclined to give Ozturk the benefit of the doubt

[rudi must stay]

Mr Levein and his boy showing you how to manage players there. Impressive.

Same can be said of Danny Swanson and Morgaro Gomis. Luckily we have sold Ozturk to Turkey or we'd be guaranteed a few years of great performances against us. You can't treat footballers the way Neilson did, lacked any respect for their hard work

[Rudi's Left Peg]

Exactly my thoughts. Over 30 players brought to club and only 1 been sold for any money. Strategy isn't working.

 

On the contrary. Won a championship moved on players that wouldn't take us to the next level.

Finished 3rd, moved players on who clearly weren't working/had attitude problems.

Yes there are a couple of bad signings, but Christ for the budget we had bringing in guys of Bjorn, Djoum, Sow, Souttar, Rossi, Kitchen, Zeefuik, Ozturk, Pallardo quality is superb.

Dundee have a similar wage budget according to the last report - How has Paul Hartley spent that? Gary Harkins, Tankulic, Rory Loy, El Bak, Teijsse, Gadzhalov.

 

Club is still in profit albeit because of the Sow sale.

 

If anything I think the short term plan has worked better than we could have hoped for. It is now Cathro & McPhee's job to sustain us at this level and try build towards consistently finishing top 3 and a cup every few years.

Any expectations beyond that is pipe dreams I'm afraid.

[Mars plastic]

Drama Queen. What age are you that you think the Hibs game is a stain. Feck me, get a grip.

I'd say our capitulation to the hibs team that won the cup for the first time since 1902 is a stain, yes. If they never win it again they'll go on about it forever.

[siegementality]

Somewhat glosses over the fact he demanded more money. And for him to claim he had "one bad game" is clearly nonsense. His form was non-existent.

Nothing against the guy, but he just wasn't that good and was moved on.

So he was just supposed to accept the first offer put to him?

[Rudi's Left Peg]

Same can be said of Danny Swanson and Morgaro Gomis. Luckily we have sold Ozturk to Turkey or we'd be guaranteed a few years of great performances against us. You can't treat footballers the way Neilson did, lacked any respect for their hard work

 

Not sure we can say Danny Swanson was hard working - looked unfit whenever he was given his chance.

Also plays in a St Johnstone team that doesn't ask him to do work hard off the ball, muck in defensively. Aye he'll score a couple of wonder strikes and penalties this season but his team will lose more games than they win.

[siegementality]

On the contrary. Won a championship moved on players that wouldn't take us to the next level.

Finished 3rd, moved players on who clearly weren't working/had attitude problems.

Yes there are a couple of bad signings, but Christ for the budget we had bringing in guys of Bjorn, Djoum, Sow, Souttar, Rossi, Kitchen, Zeefuik, Ozturk, Pallardo quality is superb.

Dundee have a similar wage budget according to the last report - How has Paul Hartley spent that? Gary Harkins, Tankulic, Rory Loy, El Bak, Teijsse, Gadzhalov.

 

Club is still in profit albeit because of the Sow sale.

 

If anything I think the short term plan has worked better than we could have hoped for. It is now Cathro & McPhee's job to sustain us at this level and try build towards consistently finishing top 3 and a cup every few years.

Any expectations beyond that is pipe dreams I'm afraid.

You obviously have no idea what the strategy is! What you have just described is how a club, any club, operates.

 

Our well documented strategy is to find young talent and develop them to a stage where we make money by selling them on. To describe what we have achieved thus far as successful is frankly ludicrous.

[rudi must stay]

Not sure we can say Danny Swanson was hard working - looked unfit whenever he was given his chance.

Also plays in a St Johnstone team that doesn't ask him to do work hard off the ball, muck in defensively. Aye he'll score a couple of wonder strikes and penalties this season but his team will lose more games than they win.

Swanson is their best player by a mile, because he is naturally talented. Big mistake letting him go

[Dia Liom]

Quite hard to read that from Oz. I'm a bit of a softie and generally feel players will improve given time and support.

 

Accept that it is cut-throat at times, which has served us well. Feel though that, generally, players who have been with the club for a few seasons often have the desire that wins big games - would always be confident against Hibs or Rangers, for example, with Patterson and Walker in the team. Hope the management see it this way too and have plans to build, and retain, a good core to the team. Even after getting promoted it has felt, to me, like constant experimentation - ie getting rid of players who have performed well after 1 season. Suppose we are in transition and desperate to make the next step up.

[Debut 4]

I would have liked to see him beside a Pressley type defender. I'd have Ozturk over Rossi and Souttar currently. Would have loved to see him beside Hughes.

i tend to agree. Wasn't it Rossi who misjudged a header inside the box v Rangers recently?

 

Thing is, the criticism meted out just now raises where we need to improve. We could nit pick each defender at Hearts.

 

Hopefully Hughes brings all the crucial attributes to defending. Then we look at who should play beside him? Souttar? Or do we go with experience and Rossi who is largely decent in the air?

 

Ozturk had his glaring faults but he also had good sides to his game and I think he was frozen out too quickly. I was told why but only second hand info which can grow arms and legs.

[August Landmesser]

You obviously have no idea what the strategy is! What you have just described is how a club, any club, operates.

 

Our well documented strategy is to find young talent and develop them to a stage where we make money by selling them on. To describe what we have achieved thus far as successful is frankly ludicrous.

It's not our only strategy though, another important part of HMFC business is being a successful football team. So far we've met all our football targets; promotion from championship, top six in P'ship, Europe.

 

The 'finding young talent' is more of a long term goal that depends largely on our academy; the players that we got in to achieve our football targets are gradually being upgraded at very little financial cost and in Sow's case sold for HUGE profit.

 

The trend is still upwards, and the money is accumulating.

 

 

[The Comedian]

I wonder how Neilson would have been with a player like himself considering he was pish?

[AlimOzturk]

There are right and wrong ways to go about dealing with players playing poorly. Dropping them and taking them out of the spotlight is one. Another is to boot the players backside and another is to put an arm round their shoulders and reassure them.

 

To crucify him, strip him of captaincy and treat Alim the way Robbie Neilson did was nothing short of disgraceful and it isn't the first time Players have spoke this way about him. Swanson also had pretty negative feedback of his time at Hearts.

 

I am concerned at how we treat players. Hopefully this was a Neilson thing rather than a club thing and Cathro can get the best out of the players without resorting to this type of behavior.

[Rudi's Left Peg]

You obviously have no idea what the strategy is! What you have just described is how a club, any club, operates.

 

Our well documented strategy is to find young talent and develop them to a stage where we make money by selling them on. To describe what we have achieved thus far as successful is frankly ludicrous.

 

Yes that strategy was part of the infamous "5 year plan" but can you honestly say that if we'd gone down that route immediately in 2014 we'd have won the title?

 

I'd class that a success - take a look at Hibs (as most posters on here are obsessed with) who are still stuck there desperately trying to claw their way out.

 

My point is that we are now where we should be - putting Cathro in charge gives the impression that we will now progress that strategy.

Our youth set up was a complete shambles for years yet we bared fruit with Nicholson, Walker and Paterson.

Nicholson will chase the money once contract is up

Walker's knee problem will rule him out of a move

Paterson is ready for his next club, only unfortunate thing is we couldn't get him to sign a new deal prior to this.

 

Hughes will bring experience to develop Souttar who will IMO go for good money. We have brought in a couple more youngsters this week and will probably continue to do so as our current crop of 16-19yr olds is clearly not good enough.

[siegementality]

It's not our only strategy though, another important part of HMFC business is being a successful football team. So far we've met all our football targets; promotion from championship, top six in P'ship, Europe.

 

The 'finding young talent' is more of a long term goal that depends largely on our academy; the players that we got in to achieve our football targets are gradually being upgraded at very little financial cost and in Sow's case sold for HUGE profit.

The trend is still upwards, and the money is accumulating.

 

Of course it not our only strategy. Every team has a strategy to be as successful as they can on the pitch. How that success is defined is part of the strategy outcome. In our case we have met that part of the strategy, albeit at times playing dreadful football.

 

As far as the transfer strategy goes there are different strands to that strategy. One strand is undoubtably the academy and that will indeed take time to come to fruition.

 

Another - heradled - strand is to bring in players who have - for whatever reason - failed to fulfill their potential with the aim of developing them and making money on subsequent transfers. With the exception of Sow that strand has been a disaster. We have players on our books on good money with next to no sell on value.

 

The ?1m plus we got for Sow was a great bit of business, but let's not forget the players that have and continue to cost the club money. And there has been quite a few.

[Thomaso]

Then in the Premiership where he made team of the year.

 

EXACTLY!!!

[Cut The Crap]

The job was always to balance ongoing success with player development and sale. The first part is going fine, but the second is virtually nonexistent (with the admittedly notable exception of Osman Sow). The only player I've truly seen any development and improvement in has been Jamie Walker.

 

Our best two players currently were already at the club when Budge and Levein took over, so recruitment seems a little sketchy at best as well.

[August Landmesser]

Of course it not our only strategy. Every team has a strategy to be as successful as they can on the pitch. How that success is defined is part of the strategy outcome. In our case we have met that part of the strategy, albeit at times playing dreadful football.

 

As far as the transfer strategy goes there are different strands to that strategy. One strand is undoubtably the academy and that will indeed take time to come to fruition.

 

Another - heradled - strand is to bring in players who have - for whatever reason - failed to fulfill their potential with the aim of developing them and making money on subsequent transfers. With the exception of Sow that strand has been a disaster. We have players on our books on good money with next to no sell on value.

 

The ?1m plus we got for Sow was a great bit of business, but let's not forget the players that have and continue to cost the club money. And there has been quite a few.

That's melodramatic to say the least. The club is still in the black, we haven't smashed our salary structure to attract any wage feefs, and of the players that have come in, most of them have contributed in some way to our promotion & third place finish - therefore earning us prize money.

 

I would say we have two players on our books costing us money with no immediate prospect of playing again; Osh & Sammon. Other players who haven't worked out or who weren't going to work out in the long term have been moved along sharpish (McHattie, Watt, Anderson, Alim, Eckersley, El Hass etc.) or else put out on loan, getting them off our books (King, McGhee etc).

 

There will always be a few duds along the way; that's the risk of the transfer markets we are currently operating in, but equally there will always be a windfall or two along the way (Sow being the most recent). Most of the players we bring in will be slight upgrades enabling us to improve in small increments whilst developing youngsters already on the books.

 

We're not going to break the bank, and we're not going mad signing millions of players, but we are improving every year.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

I just felt Ozturk still had to develop and Hughes would have been the perfect partner alongside him. He is still young and developing himself. Ozturk was clearly a great influence with a positive attitude and great with the younger ones as he himself and Neilson recognised.

All in on Souttar perhaps is the answer

[Coco]

The job was always to balance ongoing success with player development and sale. The first part is going fine, but the second is virtually nonexistent (with the admittedly notable exception of Osman Sow). The only player I've truly seen any development and improvement in has been Jamie Walker.

 

Our best two players currently were already at the club when Budge and Levein took over, so recruitment seems a little sketchy at best as well.

 

Maybe the next lot of players we take a punt on will be the right ones - ripe for development.  We are well on our way to the third full side of first team players signed during the 'project' - and in addition all of the coaching staff have been changed at least once.  This constant clearing out of players means no understandings are built within the team and presumably means a net negative transfer income too outside of the fortunate sale of Sow.

 

Ozturk was a good player on the ball.  But he struggled under the high ball.  I can't believe that it was impossible to coach improvement in that.

[siegementality]

That's melodramatic to say the least. The club is still in the black, we haven't smashed our salary structure to attract any wage feefs, and of the players that have come in, most of them have contributed in some way to our promotion & third place finish - therefore earning us prize money.

 

I would say we have two players on our books costing us money with no immediate prospect of playing again; Osh & Sammon. Other players who haven't worked out or who weren't going to work out in the long term have been moved along sharpish (McHattie, Watt, Anderson, Alim, Eckersley, El Hass etc.) or else put out on loan, getting them off our books (King, McGhee etc).

 

There will always be a few duds along the way; that's the risk of the transfer markets we are currently operating in, but equally there will always be a windfall or two along the way (Sow being the most recent). Most of the players we bring in will be slight upgrades enabling us to improve in small increments whilst developing youngsters already on the books.

We're not going to break the bank, and we're not going mad signing millions of players, but we are improving every year.

 

You are failing to get the point. What you have described is what all other clubs do. The strategy deployed by Hearts was supposed to achieve more than that. The reason we were operating outwith transfer windows for instance was to attract players whose demands would be less - as they didn't have a club - and we would profit from that. I fail to see where we have profited in a financial sense other than paying what have turned out to be - in the main - average players less money than they had hoped to have got.

 

In my opinion Ozturk is a prime example of where our transfer policy has went wrong. With the right coaching and management he had all the physical attributes to be a saleable asset. If Hearts couldn't coach him how to header a fecking ball then that says more about our coaches than Alim Ozturk. He should have made us decent money if managed properly. As it is he is another one to add to the "moved along sharpish" gang. That gang seems to be getting far too many members for my liking.