Pittodrie "Unfit for Purpose"

[luckydug]

That isn't my recollection but hey ho.

The thread rapidly degenerated into comments that they let their club die.

Always hilarious right enough.

I have no problem with any other club's fans coming on here if they declare themselves as such and remember where they are.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

I agree. As long as they are open and genuinely want to talk football.

It's the sleepers I cant stand. They open an account and the first few posts are innocuous then the stirring starts pretending to be discontented Hearts fans.

Hibs fans seem to be the worst for this most other teams fans are up front.

Fans from Killie,St J, Aberdeen and others all genuine football fans and it's good to know their views on their own clubs.

Just that bunch of dot nutters that do my box in.

[RedCity]

A move to the farmyard stadium will finally kill off this silly wee club.

That "silly wee club" has been more successful than any other Scottish club that isn't called Rangers or Celtic. And are currently well clear in the league placings of any club that isn't called Celtic. Just saying.

[Mikey1874]

How do you know it'll be soulless?

 

I read that on here all the time without an explanation actually given except that it's out of town, which has little relevance on an atmosphere within the stadium.

Those of us liking city centre sites.

 

But yes. No reason it can't be good. As somone who goes to every game home and away mostly by public transport I think I'll probably give it a miss.

[Hearts007]

RedCity, on 17 Mar 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

That "silly wee club" has been more successful than any other Scottish club that isn't called Rangers or Celtic. And are currently well clear in the league placings of any club that isn't called Celtic. Just saying.

And your fans come out in force to witness it..not

[kingantti1874]

That "silly wee club" has been more successful than any other Scottish club that isn't called Rangers or Celtic. And are currently well clear in the league placings of any club that isn't called Celtic. Just saying.

Meh! You've won a single domestic trophy more than us. Generally speaking though Aberdeen have been shit for 30 years.. yeah you've built up a wee head of steam because hearts and rangers have been out of the way giving a clear run at it but it won't last long..

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

That "silly wee club" has been more successful than any other Scottish club that isn't called Rangers or Celtic. And are currently well clear in the league placings of any club that isn't called Celtic. Just saying.

Meh

 

Celtic are so far clear it's worthless. I always have a wee chuckle when Northsound announce proudly, the Dons cut the gap to 25 points

 

Just not the same vibe for Aberdeen as there is for Hearts. Moving out might not be a good thing with an already apathetic fan base and that's in good times

[Hearts007]

Sir Gio, on 18 Mar 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Meh

 

Celtic are so far clear it's worthless. I always have a wee chuckle when Northsound announce proudly, the Dons cut the gap to 25 points

 

Just not the same vibe for Aberdeen as there is for Hearts. Moving out might not be a good thing with an already apathetic fan base and that's in good times

[SE16 3LN]

I agree. As long as they are open and genuinely want to talk football.

It's the sleepers I cant stand. They open an account and the first few posts are innocuous then the stirring starts pretending to be discontented Hearts fans.

Hibs fans seem to be the worst for this most other teams fans are up front.

Fans from Killie,St J, Aberdeen and others all genuine football fans and it's good to know their views on their own clubs.

Just that bunch of dot nutters that do my box in.

I disagree...they can all GTF

[slashishere]

Oh dear........

 

Planners? scathing report hits Aberdeen ground bid

 

Aberdeen FC?s hopes of moving to a new ?50 million stadium have been dealt a blow after a scathing report from city council planning officials. The SPFL club is desperate to leave Pittodrie ? where it has been based for more than a century ? but a new report by Aberdeen City Council dismisses the prospect that the proposed new 20,000 seater stadium at Kingsford would bring major economic benefits. Instead, analysis by the Communities, Housing and Infrastructure department pours cold water on claims the project would generate more than ?100m and create both a significant number of short and full-time jobs.

 

The Herald, 29.3.17 page 13

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

It's one of those elephant thingy me jiggers you don't see

[kila]

Wonder what our resident sheep will think of that

[Mikey1874]

No expert here

 

But a dose of realism perhaps would help

 

Aberdeenshire dissed the transport claims

 

Aberdeen's planning officials have pored cold water over the claims for the economic impact

 

Big questions still about the funding

[Erik]

Wonder what our resident sheep will think of that

 

Indeed.

 

No doubt they'll still try to tell us that expecting folk to wait 2 hours to get out the ground is fine, and any problems will be resolved by 'we'll just chuck up a train station, its easy'.

[Harry Potter]

That "silly wee club" has been more successful than any other Scottish club that isn't called Rangers or Celtic. And are currently well clear in the league placings of any club that isn't called Celtic. Just saying.

Won 2 more trophies than Hearts who have a far bigger following, FACT.

[cheetah]

[kingantti1874]

Personally don't understand where the sheep are going with this.

 

Right now is as good as it get for them on the pitch, they've had free reign because of hearts and rangers troubles and their attendances in no way justify a bigger stadium.

 

Aberdeen is in crisis, it was a fishing village pre oil boom and the oil boom is over, economically the only way is down which has and will continue to hurt crowds..

 

Moving out of town will hurt crowds

 

Where are they getting ?50m from and how would they ever pay it back ?

 

Honestly I think it's pie in the sky..

[Bad Religion]

Wonder what our resident sheep will think of that

He won't comment on this or will he post on here again after this season.

[August Landmesser]

Pittodrie is in a good location for redevelopment; loads more space around it than a lot of other grounds. If they did it the way we did Tynie (and the way most clubs rebuild), redeveloping one stand at a time they'd be fine.

 

Although then they couldn't sell the land for 'luxurious oceanfront apartments', so they couldn't actually afford to do it.

 

Oh dear.

[Harry Potter]

Won 2 more trophies than Hearts who have a far bigger following, FACT.

Have read that again, meant Hearts have a bigger following, cheers.

[Mikey1874]

Pittodrie is in a good location for redevelopment; loads more space around it than a lot of other grounds. If they did it the way we did Tynie (and the way most clubs rebuild), redeveloping one stand at a time they'd be fine.

 

Although then they couldn't sell the land for 'luxurious oceanfront apartments', so they couldn't actually afford to do it.

 

Oh dear.

Yeah

 

You wonder if there is some selfish money making agenda by likes of Milne rather than the best solution for Aberdeen.

[mullen13]

Yeah

 

You wonder if there is some selfish money making agenda by likes of Milne rather than the best solution for Aberdeen.

 

Been saying that since the debate started. 

[Unknown user]

Yeah

 

You wonder if there is some selfish money making agenda by likes of Milne rather than the best solution for Aberdeen.

One of the sheeple was on here saying that the fans just aren't that into Pittodrie any more. He also said the stadium's landlocked, but I'm not so sure about that

[Mikey1874]

One of the sheeple was on here saying that the fans just aren't that into Pittodrie any more. He also said the stadium's landlocked, but I'm not so sure about that

Yeah

 

They put forward convincing arguments including subsidence for there being no future for Pittodrie.

 

But these things can be massaged if the owners have a clear agenda to discredit the current stadium so they can sell the new project.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Yeah

 

They put forward convincing arguments including subsidence for there being no future for Pittodrie.

 

But these things can be massaged if the owners have a clear agenda to discredit the current stadium so they can sell the new project.

 

I wouldn't have thought much effort would be required to discredit that dump.

[IveSeenTheLight]

He won't comment on this or will he post on here again after this season.

 

Just dont have any comment to make.

Id rather they got on with it, but we need to wait on the outcome of the planning process.

[La_Leyenda]

Video of the new stadium here for anyone interested:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CkxmYWKiT7s

[Mikey1874]

Vlad project

[world_3]

Football fans getting shafted so that rich businessmen can get even richer. It's an age old story.

[151]

Don't they average about 11k?

[Winston Ingram]

Pittodrie seems a huge site to me.. why don't they just rebuild three sides of it? For all it needs renovation, would be sad to head to some out of town, soulless place instead.

[La_Leyenda]

Pittodrie seems a huge site to me.. why don't they just rebuild three sides of it? For all it needs renovation, would be sad to head to some out of town, soulless place instead.

If you go back two or three pages you'll find a big long explanation of why we can't rebuild Pittodrie. The short version is there's not enough room, and capacity would be reduced to 12,000-14,000.

 

On the "soulless" thing, I'll ask the same question I've asked numerous posters and have yet to receive a suitable answer. What makes it soulless? If built, and for a big game has 20,000 people in it, is it somehow going to be quieter than Pittodrie?

[ADAM]

Video of the new stadium here for anyone interested:

How is the money raising progressing? Is the new board member (the rich one) going to come up with the bucks or are there other options/plans to get the ?50m

 

Stadium looks good in video. An out of town stadium is a risk though IMO, especially one that is so far from the city centre/current location.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

If you go back two or three pages you'll find a big long explanation of why we can't rebuild Pittodrie. The short version is there's not enough room, and capacity would be reduced to 12,000-14,000.

 

On the "soulless" thing, I'll ask the same question I've asked numerous posters and have yet to receive a suitable answer. What makes it soulless? If built, and for a big game has 20,000 people in it, is it somehow going to be quieter than Pittodrie?

 

Hasn't this been answered?  See the quote from Ann Budge in my signature. A football club isn't just some players on a pitch in front of some fans. It's part of the city. Pittodrie may be a frigid hole, but it's a frigid hole where Sir Alex Ferguson won the Cup Winners Cup. It's close to pubs, restaurants, and shops, and one can make a day of it in the Aberdeen city center and stroll over to the football match. (At least what I can tell -- no, I've never been there myself and am going on reports. If I'm fully wrong, feel free to call me out.)  It's part of Aberdeen.

 

This arena will sit out in a field next to a bedroom community and sit in the middle of a giant parking lot.  It is, in short, exactly like the stadiums that American sports teams built from about 1970 to about 1990 and immediately regretted because of how isolated they seemed.  Teams now are fighting tooth and nail to get their stadia back into the city center, which for some is impossible because the land is gone and no longer available. 

 

In principle, Almondvale should be an atmospheric stadium capable of supporting a consistent premiership team. But at this point, while it's unlikely, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Edinburgh City, playing in an absolute mess of a stadium but tucked into the city, may pass Livingston in the league tables, who play in a perfectly functional but often mostly empty stadium.

[La_Leyenda]

How is the money raising progressing? Is the new board member (the rich one) going to come up with the bucks or are there other options/plans to get the ?50m

 

Stadium looks good in video. An out of town stadium is a risk though IMO, especially one that is so far from the city centre/current location.

I spoke to George Yule (vice-chairman) in January. He said they were confident of getting the funding, but there's only so much you can do when you have no planning permission.

 

It's to be built in two phases. Phase one is the training facilities, and according to Yule they've pretty much got the money (?10m) and would look to put the first spade in the ground asap, by early next year at the latest. Then they've three years to work on raising the stadium funds, with the sale of Pittodrie and naming rights a big part of that.

[La_Leyenda]

Hasn't this been answered? See the quote from Ann Budge in my signature. A football club isn't just some players on a pitch in front of some fans. It's part of the city. Pittodrie may be a frigid hole, but it's a frigid hole where Sir Alex Ferguson won the Cup Winners Cup. It's close to pubs, restaurants, and shops, and one can make a day of it in the Aberdeen city center and stroll over to the football match. (At least what I can tell -- no, I've never been there myself and am going on reports. If I'm fully wrong, feel free to call me out.) It's part of Aberdeen.

 

This arena will sit out in a field next to a bedroom community and sit in the middle of a giant parking lot. It is, in short, exactly like the stadiums that American sports teams built from about 1970 to about 1990 and immediately regretted because of how isolated they seemed. Teams now are fighting tooth and nail to get their stadia back into the city center, which for some is impossible because the land is gone and no longer available.

 

In principle, Almondvale should be an atmospheric stadium capable of supporting a consistent premiership team. But at this point, while it's unlikely, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Edinburgh City, playing in an absolute mess of a stadium but tucked into the city, may pass Livingston in the league tables, who play in a perfectly functional but often mostly empty stadium.

Well, taking it point by point.

 

Firstly, this "stadium in the heart of the community", it seems to be a very British thing. On the continent they don't think twice about an out of town stadium. Most new stadiums are away from their city centre, look at the Germans as a glaring example. And no-one describes German grounds as soulless.

 

Hearts (and Hibs) being able to rebuild their current stadiums is a bonus for fans, but it's not essential. I don't know if you saw it but Ann Budge (and Peter Lawwell & Ross County's chairman) all wrote letters that have been recently added to the stadium application. Budge says, on the use of Herriot-watt university facilities rather than having the training ground right next to the stadium like Aberdeen are planning: "I see this as a major disadvantage for the club, for the players, for the supporters and indeed for the local community and had we had any alternative, we would definitely have gone for co-location."

 

Budge continues: "When I took over at Hearts there was a definite "them and us" culture between staff located at different sites, which added enormously to the difficulties of efficiently running the business."

 

She then explains how the team train once a week at Tynecastle in a bid to address this issue, but adds "there are cost implications and pitch implications in this arrangement. Clearly, we also lose out on the many cost efficiencies that would come from running a one-site operation.

 

"In short, I would strongly recommend that you attempt to co-locate all of your facilities when you embark on your stadium redevelopment."

 

That's from your own chairman. You can read the letter in full on the link below, go to documents, and it's the fourth one down, and then it's near the bottom, page 28.

 

https://publicaccess.aberdeencity.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=OJMF3EBZIED00

 

That's what Aberdeen are determined to do. They wanted to do it at Loirston which is more in the city than Kingsford, but the labour council messed them about, giving them permission, then taking away land which they needed, announcing the building of other stuff there and making it completely unworkable. The club are running out of places to go, and if the council turn this down then plan b is unlikely to be to redevelop Pittodrie, it's probably to move to Aberdeenshire and out of the city boundary altogether.

 

As for Livingston, that's an 8,700 capacity ground which was far too big for them from the start. If Aberdeen were building a 30,000 capacity stadium I would have concerns, but we've had three home games this season with crowds of 17,067 (Siroki Brijeg), 20,085 (Apollon Limassol), and 15,165 (Hamilton) - with barely any away fans at any, in a run down stadium, against opponents no-one would describe as glamorous. I'm fairly sure in a cracking new stadium we can get 20,000 in it and get the place jumping for the big games against Rangers, Celtic and Hibs

[Seymour M Hersh]

Football fans getting shafted so that rich businessmen can get even richer. It's an age old story.

 

It's not really. 

 

Wiggie on BBC Glasgow yesterday saying the sheep will have to (maybe, well a slim possibility) play European games in Edinburgh or Glasgow was just him trying put pressure on the local council to get his planning for the new stadium through.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Well, taking it point by point.

Firstly, this "stadium in the heart of the community", it seems to be a very British thing. On the continent they don't think twice about an out of town stadium. Most new stadiums are away from their city centre, look at the Germans as a glaring example. And no-one describes German grounds as soulless.

Hearts (and Hibs) being able to rebuild their current stadiums is a bonus for fans, but it's not essential. I don't know if you saw it but Ann Budge (and Peter Lawwell & Ross County's chairman) all wrote letters that have been recently added to the stadium application. Budge says, on the use of Herriot-watt university facilities rather than having the training ground right next to the stadium like Aberdeen are planning: "I see this as a major disadvantage for the club, for the players, for the supporters and indeed for the local community and had we had any alternative, we would definitely have gone for co-location."

Budge continues: "When I took over at Hearts there was a definite "them and us" culture between staff located at different sites, which added enormously to the difficulties of efficiently running the business."

She then explains how the team train once a week at Tynecastle in a bid to address this issue, but adds "there are cost implications and pitch implications in this arrangement. Clearly, we also lose out on the many cost efficiencies that would come from running a one-site operation.

"In short, I would strongly recommend that you attempt to co-locate all of your facilities when you embark on your stadium redevelopment."

That's from your own chairman. You can read the letter in full on the link below, go to documents, and it's the fourth one down, and then it's near the bottom, page 28.https://publicaccess.aberdeencity.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=OJMF3EBZIED00

That's what Aberdeen are determined to do. They wanted to do it at Loirston which is more in the city than Kingsford, but the labour council messed them about, giving them permission, then taking away land which they needed, announcing the building of other stuff there and making it completely unworkable. The club are running out of places to go, and if the council turn this down then plan b is unlikely to be to redevelop Pittodrie, it's probably to move to Aberdeenshire and out of the city boundary altogether.

As for Livingston, that's an 8,700 capacity ground which was far too big for them from the start. If Aberdeen were building a 30,000 capacity stadium I would have concerns, but we've had three home games this season with crowds of 17,067 (Siroki Brijeg), 20,085 (Apollon Limassol), and 15,165 (Hamilton) - with barely any away fans at any, in a run down stadium, against opponents no-one would describe as glamorous. I'm fairly sure in a cracking new stadium we can get 20,000 in it and get the place jumping for the big games against Rangers, Celtic and Hibs

Almondvale was actually around 10,000 it's been reduced during the years they've been in the lower leagues.

To be honest, it's debatable it was 'too big'. It's too big for the division their currently in and opposition they face but the 'vision' when built was they'd be a stable SPL club and for that purpose it was fine as in a division with Hearts, Hibs, Rangers and Celtic it would be possible to get 8/18 capacity or near capacity home crowds in a season and a decent attendance against Aberdeen too.

Despite all the criticism of Livingston's attendances in general they averaged at least 5,000 in the SPL which is better than ICT, Hamilton, Ross County, Partick, Motherwell, St Johnstone and even Kilmarnock got last year.

[mitch41]

First and best time up there was with the Drylaw bus. 8 got lifted after the stopped in Perth which were released for 2 lads who did more serious offences. Aberdeen were top of the league and Hearts knocked them off thanks to a Donald Ford hat-trick. Townsend was also sent off .

[Buffalo Bill]

Re the video: I have two issues. One, the 'academy' doesn't have an indoor pitch which is scandalous for a project such as this, especially when you consider its northerly location. Two, the video didn't swoop down into the inside of the stadium showing the stands from pitch side. Why is that? Is it because the stadium doesn't look all that great from inside? It certainly didn't bowl me over from the mock up pics released previously. The stands looked a bit shallow and a bit too set back from the pitch for my liking as a Hearts fan.

 

On the plus side, the outside of the stadium looks very smart.  I like the wrap-around vertical stripes and the glass fa?ade.

 

What the latest with the planning application and the stand off with the local W.A.N.K.S pressure group?

[WheatfieldWarrior]

An indoor pitch is probably something which should be on the plan as Bill says, but it could certainly be added on later.  

 

I think the capacity is too low though - I think it should be 25,000 - 30,000 for a out of town new build like this.

[TyphoonJambo]

First and best time up there was with the Drylaw bus. 8 got lifted after the stopped in Perth which were released for 2 lads who did more serious offences. Aberdeen were top of the league and Hearts knocked them off thanks to a Donald Ford hat-trick. Townsend was also sent off .

The Drylaw bus was mental to be honest. I remember a trip to QOS coming back with no windows and a fridge full of ice lollies getting dished out.

[Laurie]

Interesting debate about location of grounds but I have to say I really dislike the out of town new builds that clubs so often have to go for. Don't get me wrong, I know that needs must and getting this much space in central areas of major cities is either ridiculously expensive or completely impossible. But that doesn't change the fact that there is something a bit soulless about these new stadia that don't have any real community or amenities around them. I understand La_Leyenda's point about this being the way of things on the continent far more than the UK, however one thing I would point out, having been to a handful of games in Europe, is that in these stadiums you can enter the ground and have a few drinks inside. Not that doesn't change the "soul" of the location but what it will do is entice plenty of people to the match and the general area in numbers and earlier, whereas in Scotland and England many fans are drawn to football for the full day experience - meeting their mates in the pub(s) that they so often frequent, dropping into the local bookies and then popping to the ground for the match. Of course you can have bars built as part of the ground, which alleviates this somewhat. however I can't help but feel that something is a little lost for a club when they leave the city they're associated with and pitch up in some suburban, or further afield, area on the outskirts with no previous association. 

 

Call me a traditionalist. I suppose Hearts have a lot more affiliation with the area they're based in than many clubs, so it possibly just matters a lot more to us.

 

What I would say in the Aberdeen case, largely in response to some comments from Ugly American, is that their current stadium isn't exactly in the middle of things in Aberdeen and is already a bit out of the way (albeit a short bus ride or fairly comfortable 30 minute walk). I'm sure La_Leyenda would agree, at least to an extent, that it isn't exactly the nicest of grounds either and hasn't been overly popular with many Dons fans. I grew up in Aberdeenshire and attended my first ever match at the ground, I also live in the city now and my other half is, unfortunately, an Aberdeen fan, as are many of my mates. The feeling I generally get is there isn't the same love for Pittodrie as there is for Tynecastle among Jambos and it allows many Dons to look at these things quite rationally and see the advantages of the new stadium. 

 

I'll always prefer somewhere that is in the heart of a city, or at least in amongst part of it, however I think the bottom line for Aberdeen is they need a new ground and this is the best option. The bottom line will be whether the fans turn up in numbers to make the atmosphere, the main worry would be that although Aberdeen have a large following they tend to be quite harsh if the team aren't performing and very often vote with their feet. If the great form of the McInnes tenure dissipated at some point there must be a fear that the crowds of 6/7,000 from 5 or 6 years ago could return, or worse given that this time fans would be travelling to an out of town location which may put off some who stay in the city. 

[kila]

Watching that video...

 

The 'community and learning project' - all very nice and good but what/where is the local community and how would folk even get there?

[Mikey1874]

Almondvale was actually around 10,000 it's been reduced during the years they've been in the lower leagues.

To be honest, it's debatable it was 'too big'. It's too big for the division their currently in and opposition they face but the 'vision' when built was they'd be a stable SPL club and for that purpose it was fine as in a division with Hearts, Hibs, Rangers and Celtic it would be possible to get 8/18 capacity or near capacity home crowds in a season and a decent attendance against Aberdeen too.

Despite all the criticism of Livingston's attendances in general they averaged at least 5,000 in the SPL which is better than ICT, Hamilton, Ross County, Partick, Motherwell, St Johnstone and even Kilmarnock got last year.

Livingston was just perfect not "too big from the start".

 

Rules were you had to have 10,000 stadium to play in Premier League. Teams eg Falkirk got knocked back for not having that. Rules were then relaxed to 6,500.

[Unknown user]

Aberdeens problem is that they don't have to build just a stadium and training complex, they also have to put a transport infrastructure in place for thousands of people that will be used twenty times a year.

Are there a hundred buses just kicking about doing nothing on a Saturday or are they expecting bus companies to spend literally millions and have them sitting about for 345 days a year?

 

As it stands it's doomed to failure imo

[Bazzas right boot]

Al very good,, but are they filling in the corners?

[IveSeenTheLight]

Watching that video...

 

The 'community and learning project' - all very nice and good but what/where is the local community and how would folk even get there?

AFCCT promote activities throughout Aberdeen and the shire

[Section Q]

Well, taking it point by point.

Firstly, this "stadium in the heart of the community", it seems to be a very British thing. On the continent they don't think twice about an out of town stadium. Most new stadiums are away from their city centre, look at the Germans as a glaring example. And no-one describes German grounds as soulless.

Hearts (and Hibs) being able to rebuild their current stadiums is a bonus for fans, but it's not essential. I don't know if you saw it but Ann Budge (and Peter Lawwell & Ross County's chairman) all wrote letters that have been recently added to the stadium application. Budge says, on the use of Herriot-watt university facilities rather than having the training ground right next to the stadium like Aberdeen are planning: "I see this as a major disadvantage for the club, for the players, for the supporters and indeed for the local community and had we had any alternative, we would definitely have gone for co-location."

Budge continues: "When I took over at Hearts there was a definite "them and us" culture between staff located at different sites, which added enormously to the difficulties of efficiently running the business."

She then explains how the team train once a week at Tynecastle in a bid to address this issue, but adds "there are cost implications and pitch implications in this arrangement. Clearly, we also lose out on the many cost efficiencies that would come from running a one-site operation.

"In short, I would strongly recommend that you attempt to co-locate all of your facilities when you embark on your stadium redevelopment."

That's from your own chairman. You can read the letter in full on the link below, go to documents, and it's the fourth one down, and then it's near the bottom, page 28.https://publicaccess.aberdeencity.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=OJMF3EBZIED00

That's what Aberdeen are determined to do. They wanted to do it at Loirston which is more in the city than Kingsford, but the labour council messed them about, giving them permission, then taking away land which they needed, announcing the building of other stuff there and making it completely unworkable. The club are running out of places to go, and if the council turn this down then plan b is unlikely to be to redevelop Pittodrie, it's probably to move to Aberdeenshire and out of the city boundary altogether.

As for Livingston, that's an 8,700 capacity ground which was far too big for them from the start. If Aberdeen were building a 30,000 capacity stadium I would have concerns, but we've had three home games this season with crowds of 17,067 (Siroki Brijeg), 20,085 (Apollon Limassol), and 15,165 (Hamilton) - with barely any away fans at any, in a run down stadium, against opponents no-one would describe as glamorous. I'm fairly sure in a cracking new stadium we can get 20,000 in it and get the place jumping for the big games against Rangers, Celtic and Hibs

I'm glad we're still in Gorgie but there appears to be certain advantages in having adjoining stadium and training facilities, eg Man City. They are however one of the few exceptions. Sevco Tims Man Utd Liverpool Everton and more all have training grounds separate from where they play.

Your stadium looks good though.

[IveSeenTheLight]

It's a big post so just pit in my replies below

 

Interesting debate about location of grounds but I have to say I really dislike the out of town new builds that clubs so often have to go for. Don't get me wrong, I know that needs must and getting this much space in central areas of major cities is either ridiculously expensive or completely impossible. But that doesn't change the fact that there is something a bit soulless about these new stadia that don't have any real community or amenities around them. I understand La_Leyenda's point about this being the way of things on the continent far more than the UK, however one thing I would point out, having been to a handful of games in Europe, is that in these stadiums you can enter the ground and have a few drinks insideThe plans include a Supporters bar and a Red Cafe for food and drinks . Not that doesn't change the "soul" of the location but what it will do is entice plenty of people to the match and the general area in numbers and earlier, whereas in Scotland and England many fans are drawn to football for the full day experience - meeting their mates in the pub(s) that they so often frequent, dropping into the local bookies and then popping to the ground for the match. Of course you can have bars built as part of the ground, which alleviates this somewhat. however I can't help but feel that something is a little lost for a club when they leave the city they're associated with and pitch up in some suburban, or further afield, area on the outskirts with no previous association. 

 

Call me a traditionalist. I suppose Hearts have a lot more affiliation with the area they're based in than many clubs, so it possibly just matters a lot more to us.

 

What I would say in the Aberdeen case, largely in response to some comments from Ugly American, is that their current stadium isn't exactly in the middle of things in Aberdeen and is already a bit out of the way (albeit a short bus ride or fairly comfortable 30 minute walk). I'm sure La_Leyenda would agree, at least to an extent, that it isn't exactly the nicest of grounds either and hasn't been overly popular with many Dons fans. I grew up in Aberdeenshire and attended my first ever match at the ground, I also live in the city now and my other half is, unfortunately, an Aberdeen fan, as are many of my mates. The feeling I generally get is there isn't the same love for Pittodrie as there is for Tynecastle among Jambos and it allows many Dons to look at these things quite rationally and see the advantages of the new stadium.  I'd agree with that. There is a small sense of loyalty towards Pittodrie and many a great footballing night has been witnessed there, but we do rationalise what is likely to be best for the team / club and that is to develop a new facility

 

I'll always prefer somewhere that is in the heart of a city, or at least in amongst part of it, however I think the bottom line for Aberdeen is they need a new ground and this is the best option. The bottom line will be whether the fans turn up in numbers to make the atmosphere, the main worry would be that although Aberdeen have a large following they tend to be quite harsh if the team aren't performing and very often vote with their feet. If the great form of the McInnes tenure dissipated at some point there must be a fear that the crowds of 6/7,000 from 5 or 6 years ago could return our average was never that low, even the Mghoo era our average was circa 9,000, or worse given that this time fans would be travelling to an out of town location which may put off some who stay in the city. there was a survey which shows 88% of the fans use some sort of transportation to the game at Pittodrie. I'm hopefully a new ground with better facilities will bring new fans to the club. I believe Aberdeen we're working on an Average of 13k

 

[IveSeenTheLight]

Al very good,, but are they filling in the corners?

The stadium looks enclosed. There will be seats in the corners, but I also see the corners as used for the Supporters Bar, Hospitality, Police Control Centre and possibly the Red Cafe.