Even More SNP Nonsense

[Jambof3tornado]

1 hour ago, deesidejambo said:

So Sturgeon didn’t support air strikes as they are an escalation?   Instead of criticising May she should elaborate what action, if any, should have been taken.

Much easier to simply criticise those acting.

[Bazzas right boot]

 

 

my wet dream

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by WeeChuck'sHeed

[mac]

2 hours ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

my wet dream

 

Mine as well   

[GBJambo]

8 hours ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

my wet dream

 

 Looks like a man in drag. 

Sturgeon that is 

Edited April 15, 2018 by GBJambo

[Roxy Hearts]

14 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 

Billy Connolly now supports independence. Well done Big Yin. 

[Roxy Hearts]

15 hours ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

I don't think Scotland could make it as a country TBH.

 

We have no infrastructure for it.

How would we finance it? 

Oil rich countries with plenty or natural resources such as water, gas and wind often struggle. Not to mention the burden of the tourism, farming,  forestry and the  Gin/ Whiskey trade put on us. How can we cope?

Countries with such burdens are failing all the time and wanting to merge with their bigger Neighbours. Even country's that don't have these burdens  are always asking to come back.

 

I think every country that has left the "empire" has begged several times to re join, Ireland are well known to be banging at the door, The Czech's are just asking for another German Invasion and the Poles are spoilt for choice between becoming part of Russia or Germany- Spoilt they are. Russia is always getting begged back to take back it's former territories and Norway just want Sweden and Denmark to join them do they can become the United Kingdom of Scandavia then get told by Russia what to do.

 

Not only that, who wants a fair state pension in line with the rest of the developed world and free health care funded through a fair tax system, that shit just keeps the old and poor alive- Middle class and rich folk never use the NHS or council services. Waste of money. No middle class folk every get any Health issues. 

 

Much better to throw money away to Monarchs, political Bribes, tax breaks and bailing out private companies and banks and of course bombing other countries back to the 1800's. 

 

And the EU is for nancy's- who wants free movement , peace and a general ethos of working together, the 1900's - 1950's then the cold war was much more fun.  Don't get me started on holiday leave, maternity leave, discrimination acts, working hours regulations and all that stuff, it's for poncies- Who need human rights, again that just keeps the poor, old and disabled alive as well as these jumped up women in suits along with the Gays. Much better when Children worked at 9 years old, women couldn't work and miners and factory workers were dieing while working. The good ol' days If I remember correctly.

 

And the best part of all, who wants the folk of Scotland to decide the future of their own country, no matter what it is- we are far too stupid for that, it's much better being told what to do. Takes another hassle of our hands just like what to do with our resources and people, why think for yourself when you can simple be told what to do. It's the 

 

 

 

 

Terrific post. 

[jake]

16 hours ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

I don't think Scotland could make it as a country TBH.

 

We have no infrastructure for it.

How would we finance it? 

Oil rich countries with plenty or natural resources such as water, gas and wind often struggle. Not to mention the burden of the tourism, farming,  forestry and the  Gin/ Whiskey trade put on us. How can we cope?

Countries with such burdens are failing all the time and wanting to merge with their bigger Neighbours. Even country's that don't have these burdens  are always asking to come back.

 

I think every country that has left the "empire" has begged several times to re join, Ireland are well known to be banging at the door, The Czech's are just asking for another German Invasion and the Poles are spoilt for choice between becoming part of Russia or Germany- Spoilt they are. Russia is always getting begged back to take back it's former territories and Norway just want Sweden and Denmark to join them do they can become the United Kingdom of Scandavia then get told by Russia what to do.

 

Not only that, who wants a fair state pension in line with the rest of the developed world and free health care funded through a fair tax system, that shit just keeps the old and poor alive- Middle class and rich folk never use the NHS or council services. Waste of money. No middle class folk every get any Health issues. 

 

Much better to throw money away to Monarchs, political Bribes, tax breaks and bailing out private companies and banks and of course bombing other countries back to the 1800's. 

 

And the EU is for nancy's- who wants free movement , peace and a general ethos of working together, the 1900's - 1950's then the cold war was much more fun.  Don't get me started on holiday leave, maternity leave, discrimination acts, working hours regulations and all that stuff, it's for poncies- Who need human rights, again that just keeps the poor, old and disabled alive as well as these jumped up women in suits along with the Gays. Much better when Children worked at 9 years old, women couldn't work and miners and factory workers were dieing while working. The good ol' days If I remember correctly.

 

And the best part of all, who wants the folk of Scotland to decide the future of their own country, no matter what it is- we are far too stupid for that, it's much better being told what to do. Takes another hassle of our hands just like what to do with our resources and people, why think for yourself when you can simple be told what to do. It's the 

 

 

 

 

Yay 

 

Lets leave a union and join another union because it's not England.

 

Yay .

[pablo]

Ooft ?

[deesidejambo]

34 minutes ago, pablo said:

Ooft ?

Spectator is MSM so its all false dontcha know.

[LesJambes]

This is a good time for them to hold a second referendum imo. The tories are dismantling the NHS, making welfare a nightmare for the unemployed, attacking school and police budgets etc, while at the same time increasing their own wages, and the vast amounts of money they give to the Royal Family. And the only opposition has a leader and cronies who rightly or wrongly are viewed as IRA and Hamas supporters, who thinks white men are all privileged, and Muslim rape gangs not as important as 'Islamophobia' on Twitter. I didn't vote Yes the first time around, but right now I genuinely feel like we have no choice, if we are to maintain any sort of healthcare, welfare or education system at all. I feel like we are rapidly becoming a third World nation, where the rich have everything and the poor are left to rot. That is not what this country should represent. Even if just to raise these issues at all in the media I'd support a second IndyRef today. And this time they'd need to provide more than empty promises.

[Thommo414]

6 minutes ago, LesJambes said:

This is a good time for them to hold a second referendum imo. The tories are dismantling the NHS, making welfare a nightmare for the unemployed, attacking school and police budgets etc, while at the same time increasing their own wages, and the vast amounts of money they give to the Royal Family. And the only opposition has a leader and cronies who rightly or wrongly are viewed as IRA and Hamas supporters, who thinks white men are all privileged, and Muslim rape gangs not as important as 'Islamophobia' on Twitter. I didn't vote Yes the first time around, but right now I genuinely feel like we have no choice, if we are to maintain any sort of healthcare, welfare or education system at all. I feel like we are rapidly becoming a third World nation, where the rich have everything and the poor are left to rot. That is not what this country should represent. Even if just to raise these issues at all in the media I'd support a second IndyRef today. And this time they'd need to provide more than empty promises.

While there are people like your self who would vote differently this time, there's just absolutely no point if independence is still the preference of a minority 

[LesJambes]

BTW I have a question for the nationalists here. If there was a second IndyRef at some point, and it had the same result as the first one, how would you feel about making those areas which voted Yes independent? For example in the last one Glasgow and North Lanarkshire both voted majority Yes, how would you feel about those areas becoming independent and proving it's feasible? It would mean at least we could have independence, albeit a compromised one, we show it's workable and profitable despite the scaremongering. Glasgow has great industrial and growing commercial infrastructure, North Lanarkshire is more agrarian but still wealthy and profitable. West Dunbartonshire and Dundee voted majority Yes as well, could throw them in as a satellite states for coastal ports on the east and west coast.

However this is a last ditch compromise, if it's shown that Scotland as a whole will never vote for Independence. ie it's preferable to have a small part of Scotland independent than none at all. The disadvantage would be that there would be some population exchange, the most hardline nationalists would move to the new independent state, while the most hardline unionists would move out of it. Thus making it harder to obtain a yes vote in those areas outside it. That's why this would have to be a last ditch effort.

[shaun.lawson]

55 minutes ago, LesJambes said:

how would you feel about making those areas which voted Yes independent? For example in the last one Glasgow and North Lanarkshire both voted majority Yes, how would you feel about those areas becoming independent

 

 

Yes supporter argues for Scottish bantustans.

 

 

[LesJambes]

8 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Yes supporter argues for Scottish bantustans.

 

 

Learn to read, I voted No. There's also a subtle but important difference between asking a question and supporting something.

Edited April 15, 2018 by LesJambes

[shaun.lawson]

31 minutes ago, LesJambes said:

Learn to read, I voted No. There's also a subtle but important difference between asking a question and supporting something.

 

"I didn't vote Yes the first time around, but right now I genuinely feel like we have no choice, if we are to maintain any sort of healthcare, welfare or education system at all".

 

Sound like a converted Yes supporter to me?

[LesJambes]

19 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

"I didn't vote Yes the first time around, but right now I genuinely feel like we have no choice, if we are to maintain any sort of healthcare, welfare or education system at all".

 

Sound like a converted Yes supporter to me?

Undecided. And that's in a hypothetical IndyRef 2.

[jambos are go!]

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 22:09, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yup. 

 

If an independent Scotland was part of a currency union with the rest of the UK, it would not be independent. It would be ****ed.

 

If an independent Scotland seeks to join the EU, the EU is extremely likely to insist on its adoption of the euro as a condition of entry. So it'd be ****ed there too.

 

The only apparent solution for Scotland is its own currency. But that's no solution either, given it's highly likely to be forced to give it up if it wants to be part of the EU.

 

Hello again. Not  like your old self to feature  even edited expletives.

[Pans Jambo]

On 4/14/2018 at 22:50, deesidejambo said:

So Sturgeon didn’t support air strikes as they are an escalation?   Instead of criticising May she should elaborate what action, if any, should have been taken.

I thought she asked for a meaningful debate on the issue and I'm sure her 'criticism' was about the UK bombing Syria without even having a 'by your leave' from Parliament. What did she say that was wrong? We have bombed a country that's an already bombed wasteland and what has it achieved? Is it to stop the bombing we need to bomb them?

 

And by the way, I'm also sure I have heard criticism of EVERY SNP policy from the Tories and Labour since forever WITHOUT them having ANY input into what they would do in power in Scotland (as if).

 

Easy to criticise.

20 hours ago, jake said:

Yay 

 

Lets leave a union and join another union because it's not England.

 

Yay .

One 'union' holds 70% of the power,  we have zero influence in who wields that power, its determined to eradicate what our parents and grandparents worked hard for through privatisation and takes us to court if we stand up for ourselves. The other holds about 5% of power which we can at least influence and give us the ECHR and all it entails etc etc etc.

 

Who mentioned England? Oh aye, You did.

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

I thought she asked for a meaningful debate on the issue and I'm sure her 'criticism' was about the UK bombing Syria without even having a 'by your leave' from Parliament. What did she say that was wrong? We have bombed a country that's an already bombed wasteland and what has it achieved? Is it to stop the bombing we need to bomb them?

 

And by the way, I'm also sure I have heard criticism of EVERY SNP policy from the Tories and Labour since forever WITHOUT them having ANY input into what they would do in power in Scotland (as if).

 

Easy to criticise.

One 'union' holds 70% of the power,  we have zero influence in who wields that power, its determined to eradicate what our parents and grandparents worked hard for through privatisation and takes us to court if we stand up for ourselves. The other holds about 5% of power which we can at least influence and give us the ECHR and all it entails etc etc etc.

 

Who mentioned England? Oh aye, You did.

There are two issues.    She has every right, like others, to want a debate.    That I have no problem with.

 

but her statement that they are a dangerous escalation suggests to me that she doesn’t support.

 

either way she needs to offer alternative solutions as opposed to tacitly criticising the one taken.

 

imo

[jack D and coke]

22 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

There are two issues.    She has every right, like others, to want a debate.    That I have no problem with.

 

but her statement that they are a dangerous escalation suggests to me that she doesn’t support.

 

either way she needs to offer alternative solutions as opposed to tacitly criticising the one taken.

 

imo

You mean like how labour, Lib Dem’s and the tories just criticise absolutely everything the SNP do up here? 

[deesidejambo]

10 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You mean like how labour, Lib Dem’s and the tories just criticise absolutely everything the SNP do up here? 

Yup.   Criticism is meaningless without giving alternatives.

 

personally I would not support the bombing but at least I say so.  She however uses it as a means to snipe with no personal position 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

Yup.   Criticism is meaningless without giving alternatives.

 

personally I would not support the bombing but at least I say so.  She however uses it as a means to snipe with no personal position 

I agree but to say that’s she’s it criticised for criticise sake I don’t think is true. Most sane people would like to hear the reasons for this given the absolute ****ery we’ve left in other countries. 

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I agree but to say that’s she’s it criticised for criticise sake I don’t think is true. Most sane people would like to hear the reasons for this given the absolute ****ery we’ve left in other countries. 

Agree to an extent but the question is would a debate shed new light or evidence on the issue. If so then a debate may add value.

 

anyway Russia now has Syria in its growing Empire.      It will win the war but as Vietnam showed it won’t win the peace, from a global geopolitical perspective 

 

imo

[jambos are go!]

7 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Agree to an extent but the question is would a debate shed new light or evidence on the issue. If so then a debate may add value.

 

anyway Russia now has Syria in its growing Empire.      It will win the war but as Vietnam showed it won’t win the peace, from a global geopolitical perspective 

 

imo

Russia has a smaller economy than the UK or Italy and if it was not a Nuclear State would be ignored.

[jambo lodge]

How pathetic are the SNP on so many levels. The Welsh Government agree a deal with Westminster regarding devolved powers post Brexit. What does this excuse of a party do .........Whinge Whinge Whinge. 

[jack D and coke]

15 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

How pathetic are the SNP on so many levels. The Welsh Government agree a deal with Westminster regarding devolved powers post Brexit. What does this excuse of a party do .........Whinge Whinge Whinge. 

Wales voted Leave, Scotland didn’t. What is it you don’t understand exactly? 

[jambo lodge]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Wales voted Leave, Scotland didn’t. What is it you don’t understand exactly? 

The Welsh and SNP parliament were supposed to be working together on this. All this nonsense about a Westminster power grab has now been shown up to be more SNP nonsense. As usual there is only one thing the SNP want and that is Independence. Any excuse to use grievance towards Westminster.

 

Please note I said Welsh and SNP parliaments. The SNP do not represent Scotland , never have and never will.  

[jake]

On 16/04/2018 at 12:24, deesidejambo said:

Agree to an extent but the question is would a debate shed new light or evidence on the issue. If so then a debate may add value.

 

anyway Russia now has Syria in its growing Empire.      It will win the war but as Vietnam showed it won’t win the peace, from a global geopolitical perspective 

 

imo

?

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

The Welsh and SNP parliament were supposed to be working together on this. All this nonsense about a Westminster power grab has now been shown up to be more SNP nonsense. As usual there is only one thing the SNP want and that is Independence. Any excuse to use grievance towards Westminster.

 

Please note I said Welsh and SNP parliaments. The SNP do not represent Scotland , never have and never will.  

The SNP. A party set up to try and gain Scotland Independence. People are surprised when they try to achieve this....kind of baffling. 

The SNP also represent a large part of Scotland whether you like that or not. 

Im not sure it’s all nonsense about a Westminster power grab either unless you can enlighten me?

[jambo lodge]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The SNP. A party set up to try and gain Scotland Independence. People are surprised when they try to achieve this....kind of baffling. 

The SNP also represent a large part of Scotland whether you like that or not. 

Im not sure it’s all nonsense about a Westminster power grab either unless you can enlighten me?

This is the SNP Government who could not take on the devolved welfare powers and asked for them to be delayed until 2020. Also they have asked for a delay in Employment Tribunal powers. They simply are the most incompetent administration within the UK. 

[jack D and coke]

40 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

This is the SNP Government who could not take on the devolved welfare powers and asked for them to be delayed until 2020. Also they have asked for a delay in Employment Tribunal powers. They simply are the most incompetent administration within the UK. 

You have to be kidding? This British government is a joke, lies compulsively, moves from one giant cluster**** to the next yet you want to point fingers at what is basically a council. Laughable mate, absolutely laughable. 

[Ministry]

On 23/12/2017 at 20:29, ri Alban said:

Does that not apply to all the biggest nations in union. The pound for example. Empoverishing Scotland and Wales to the benefit of England.

Scotland and Wales do not have their own national debt to service.

 

Nor do they have the ability to make broad changes to tax rates etc. 

 

Totally different situation. 

 

 

[jambo lodge]

53 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You have to be kidding? This British government is a joke, lies compulsively, moves from one giant cluster**** to the next yet you want to point fingers at what is basically a council. Laughable mate, absolutely laughable. 

The SNP Parliament cannot cope with existing powers far less looking for more. They are a parliament with legislative powers they seldom use. They have made a mess of Education, NHS, Police and so much more.    

[jack D and coke]

32 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

The SNP Parliament cannot cope with existing powers far less looking for more. They are a parliament with legislative powers they seldom use. They have made a mess of Education, NHS, Police and so much more.    

No they haven’t. When compared to the British government. 

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

You have to be kidding? This British government is a joke, lies compulsively, moves from one giant cluster**** to the next yet you want to point fingers at what is basically a council. Laughable mate, absolutely laughable. 

 

A huge (but unsurprising) underestimation of the extensive powers Holyrood and the Scottish Government have. They're in no way a council.

 

Laughable to think so.

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

A huge (but unsurprising) underestimation of the extensive powers Holyrood and the Scottish Government have. They're in no way a council.

 

Laughable to think so.

To compare it to Westminster is a having a laugh. You knew that though. 

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The SNP. A party set up to try and gain Scotland Independence. People are surprised when they try to achieve this....kind of baffling. 

 

What's baffling is them blatantly looking to cause a fuss over little. They claim to represent "Scotland". Yet struggle to ever achieve anything without throwing toys out the pram.

 

I assume should it happen and we apply to join the EU we won't do a deal at the last minute because there'll be something the SNP can through out at the last minute... whilst Wales get in.

 

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The SNP also represent a large part of Scotland whether you like that or not. 

Im not sure it’s all nonsense about a Westminster power grab either unless you can enlighten me?

 

The issue isn't a power grab. If it was Wales wouldn't have done a deal. The Welsh Finance Minister (who led his government's negotiations) said there will be no power grab. The presumption of Brexit is powers to devolved administrations. There will be temporary limits until UK wide frameworks in use of these powers can be agreed. 

 

If it was total devolution with no UK framework you would rip up the internal UK market. For example - Scotland banning the sale of certain fertilisers would be a barrier to agricultural trade (which is why the EU currently does this on an EU wide basis). 

 

The Scottish Government appear not to want to allow a suspension in exercising powers until a subsequent framework is agreed.

[JamboX2]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

To compare it to Westminster is a having a laugh. You knew that though. 

 

Why compare? Why?

 

Holyrood in 2018 is a shadow of what it was in 2008 let alone 1998. It is a powerful and transformative instrument for Scotland and Scottish people.

 

It's done good. But not enough. 

 

But to say it's a council is utter crap which makes it out to be in charge of little more than leisure centres and bin collections. It could change our woeful health inequalities. End sectarianism. Reshape justice. Revolutionise land ownership. But it's limited by the incumbent MSPs.

[Boris]

11 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

What's baffling is them blatantly looking to cause a fuss over little. They claim to represent "Scotland". Yet struggle to ever achieve anything without throwing toys out the pram.

 

I assume should it happen and we apply to join the EU we won't do a deal at the last minute because there'll be something the SNP can through out at the last minute... whilst Wales get in.

 

 

The issue isn't a power grab. If it was Wales wouldn't have done a deal. The Welsh Finance Minister (who led his government's negotiations) said there will be no power grab. The presumption of Brexit is powers to devolved administrations. There will be temporary limits until UK wide frameworks in use of these powers can be agreed. 

 

If it was total devolution with no UK framework you would rip up the internal UK market. For example - Scotland banning the sale of certain fertilisers would be a barrier to agricultural trade (which is why the EU currently does this on an EU wide basis). 

 

The Scottish Government appear not to want to allow a suspension in exercising powers until a subsequent framework is agreed.

 

Using that as an example, that seems to me awfuly like being dictated to on a devolved issue?  Isn't the point of devolution for the devolved parliament to make its own mind up?  That makes it a fait accompli, surely?

 

Rather than Westminster saying you can have this power but here are the rules, effectively giving the devolved parliament no power, shouldn't the various governments meet first, thrash out the framework then be left to their devices based on a common agreement rather than a diktat?

[Boris]

11 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Why compare? Why?

 

Holyrood in 2018 is a shadow of what it was in 2008 let alone 1998. It is a powerful and transformative instrument for Scotland and Scottish people.

 

It's done good. But not enough. 

 

But to say it's a council is utter crap which makes it out to be in charge of little more than leisure centres and bin collections. It could change our woeful health inequalities. End sectarianism. Reshape justice. Revolutionise land ownership. But it's limited by the incumbent MSPs.

 

 

Many of whom play party politics and automatically oppose instead of work together.  And I aim that at pretty much all parties here.

[jambo lodge]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 

Many of whom play party politics and automatically oppose instead of work together.  And I aim that at pretty much all parties here.

Mike Russell clearly comes into that category. Listened to the SNP's Brexit Minister on Radio Scotland this morning, what a buffoon of a man. No clear answer on why Wales agreed and Scotland didn't. Brian Taylor summed it up nicely by saying the Welsh are governed by a Unionist party whereas Scotland are governed by the SNP. Difference = party politics. 

[jack D and coke]

12 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Why compare? Why?

 

Holyrood in 2018 is a shadow of what it was in 2008 let alone 1998. It is a powerful and transformative instrument for Scotland and Scottish people.

 

It's done good. But not enough. 

 

But to say it's a council is utter crap which makes it out to be in charge of little more than leisure centres and bin collections. It could change our woeful health inequalities. End sectarianism. Reshape justice. Revolutionise land ownership. But it's limited by the incumbent MSPs.

It’s a glorified council and well you know it. They can’t even make most people slightly better off under a new tax system but the unionist parties jumped all over it and tried to suggest we were the highest taxed part of the uk. 

Stick to what’s left of the labour drones on here to try convince with your pish. 

[JamboX2]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

 

Many of whom play party politics and automatically oppose instead of work together.  And I aim that at pretty much all parties here.

 

Agreed. 

 

That isn't unsual in a system with whips. I'd ban whipped voting. End it.

 

As many other countries have.

[JamboX2]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Using that as an example, that seems to me awfuly like being dictated to on a devolved issue?  Isn't the point of devolution for the devolved parliament to make its own mind up?  That makes it a fait accompli, surely?

 

No. Because in common markets there needs to be common standards. The UK is proposing a collective framework for collective decisions on matters such as this. That is being rejected. Which, imo, is odd.

 

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Rather than Westminster saying you can have this power but here are the rules, effectively giving the devolved parliament no power, shouldn't the various governments meet first, thrash out the framework then be left to their devices based on a common agreement rather than a diktat?

 

See above. 

[JamboX2]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s a glorified council and well you know it. They can’t even make most people slightly better off under a new tax system but the unionist parties jumped all over it and tried to suggest we were the highest taxed part of the uk. 

Stick to what’s left of the labour drones on here to try convince with your pish. 

 

The Tories said that. Not all opposition parties. For some it didn't go far enough! 

 

Those changes were passed. But let's not argue the SNP are purveyors of all the good things in Scottish politics at present.

 

It's a very powerful body. To argue otherwise just doesn't stand up and belittles Scotland's democratic process. 

 

No need to jump off with that - I left the party fwiw. Go and read the Scotland Acts on legislation.gov.uk and the Scot Parliament website. First hand sources for the parliament. A powerful tool woefully used by people with little imagination. You don't see such negativity towards devolution in other nations - only here.

Edited April 25, 2018 by JamboX2

[Boris]

17 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

No. Because in common markets there needs to be common standards. The UK is proposing a collective framework for collective decisions on matters such as this. That is being rejected. Which, imo, is odd.

 

 

See above. 

 

Sorry JX2, I get the comon standards thing, however I was under the impression that these were being decided by Westminster thus leaving the devolved governments out of the decision making process.  So as I said in my post that you quoted, the respective govts, Westminster and the devolved governments ARE actually meeting to thrash out what that agreed framework is?  BUt that proposal has been rejected by the Scottish Government?

[JamboX2]

11 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Sorry JX2, I get the comon standards thing, however I was under the impression that these were being decided by Westminster thus leaving the devolved governments out of the decision making process.  So as I said in my post that you quoted, the respective govts, Westminster and the devolved governments ARE actually meeting to thrash out what that agreed framework is?  BUt that proposal has been rejected by the Scottish Government?

 

No. The framework is to be agreed once the final Brexit deal is agreed. The powers will then fall in behind the framework. In the interim the powers are effectively reserved. 

 

Hardly a power grab.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

No. The framework is to be agreed once the final Brexit deal is agreed. The powers will then fall in behind the framework. In the interim the powers are effectively reserved. 

 

Hardly a power grab.

 

There's your sticking point right there then I presume!

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

There's your sticking point right there then I presume!

 

Indeed. But how do you agree a framework before a deal?

[shaun.lawson]

10 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

Mike Russell clearly comes into that category. Listened to the SNP's Brexit Minister on Radio Scotland this morning, what a buffoon of a man. No clear answer on why Wales agreed and Scotland didn't. Brian Taylor summed it up nicely by saying the Welsh are governed by a Unionist party whereas Scotland are governed by the SNP. Difference = party politics. 

 

Then Brian Taylor summed it up wrong.

 

Wales voted to leave the EU, so there's no problem. Scotland convincingly voted to stay in the EU - and had gone through an entire independence referendum campaign in which the 'No' side repeatedly said: "Vote No to stay in the EU!"

 

Scotland now being forced to leave the EU constitutes a huge democratic deficit. Scotland being forced to leave the EU while Northern Ireland are granted special arrangements, in which it stays in a customs union, would represent an absurd, unsustainable constitutional nonsense.

 

The Scottish government is absolutely right to reserve its position. If the BBC is incapable of understanding why, that's its problem - not that that surprises me, givn its pathetic, dumbed down coverage of everything to do with Brexit. The licence fee should be done away with. The BBC serves nobody except the UK government any longer. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by shaun.lawson