Even More SNP Nonsense

[Boris]

33 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

What specific rights are Scotland going to lose?

 

If an area is devolved, like agriculture, fisheries, food labelling, why does it need to first go to Westminster for a period, then handed back to Holyrood?

 

The UK government says it is to get UK wide agreement on things.  Fair enough, but why not give the power to the devolved parliaments and then create a framework working together?  That is surely the spirit of devolution?

 

To simply hand something on saying this is it, devalues devolution.

 

Not forgetting, of course, that only the Tories in the Scottish Parliament accept the UK government position.  That, I would say, says a lot about what is going on.

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, jambo lodge said:

The SNP are currently in charge of the NHS in Scotland and are increasing the amount of privatisation year on year.

 

Are they? What, like selling it off to Virgin Healthcare & the like?

[Ron Burgundy]

Still no specifics?

 

It's almost like they created a "wee stooshie" over nothing.

 

Silly Krankie

[Thunderstruck]

55 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

What like fishing, fracking, environment & such like?

 

Anyway, you lot dont get to ask questions anymore (said so pn the other thread). 

 

Will wokers rights be maintained after Brexit?

 

Farming! After a number of years where the SNP made a complete a**e of managing farm payments in Scotland - to the extend that some of those employed in agriculture had to resort to Food Banks. 

 

They can’t even cope with what they already have.  

[Phil Dunphy]

27 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

If an area is devolved, like agriculture, fisheries, food labelling, why does it need to first go to Westminster for a period, then handed back to Holyrood?

 

The UK government says it is to get UK wide agreement on things.  Fair enough, but why not give the power to the devolved parliaments and then create a framework working together?  That is surely the spirit of devolution?

 

To simply hand something on saying this is it, devalues devolution.

 

Not forgetting, of course, that only the Tories in the Scottish Parliament accept the UK government position.  That, I would say, says a lot about what is going on.

 

So Scotland isn’t losing any of these powers at all? Sound. 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

So Scotland isn’t losing any of these powers at all? Sound. 

 

Well, it is initially, and that's the point.  What gets handed back has not been approved by the Scottish Parliament whose role it is to decide in the first place!

 

Forget about SNP/Natz etc, this is more a question about devolution and the relationship between Holyrood and Westminster and the respect BOTH should show to each other.  

 

As shown by Green, Lib Dem and Labour opposition to this as well.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Boris

[Pans Jambo]

15 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Farming! After a number of years where the SNP made a complete a**e of managing farm payments in Scotland - to the extend that some of those employed in agriculture had to resort to Food Banks. 

 

They can’t even cope with what they already have.  

According to the Tories food banks are good things. Is that not the case???

[Thunderstruck]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Well, it is initially, and that's the point.  What gets handed back has not been approved by the Scottish Parliament whose role it is to decide in the first place!

 

Forget about SNP/Natz etc, this is more a question about devolution and the relationship between Holyrood and Westminster and the respect BOTH should show to each other.  

 

As shown by Green, Lib Dem and Labour opposition to this as well.

 

It’s quite simple, Devolution is a framework  where various powers are given to local administrations. These powers will be passed down but not in a haphazard manner. Instead, proper devolution will happen after consultation between the U.K. and the local administrations. It is a well-worn path and one not to be deviated from for the sake of calming a faux outrage. 

[jambo lodge]

8 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Well, it is initially, and that's the point.  What gets handed back has not been approved by the Scottish Parliament whose role it is to decide in the first place!

 

Forget about SNP/Natz etc, this is more a question about devolution and the relationship between Holyrood and Westminster and the respect BOTH should show to each other.  

 

As shown by Green, Lib Dem and Labour opposition to this as well.

Lord Sewell who set up the " Sewell convention " would disagree with you. He says the current circumstances are extraordinary and its understandable that Westminster wishes to retain power over certain issues for a limited period.

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Well, it is initially, and that's the point.  What gets handed back has not been approved by the Scottish Parliament whose role it is to decide in the first place!

 

Forget about SNP/Natz etc, this is more a question about devolution and the relationship between Holyrood and Westminster and the respect BOTH should show to each other.  

 

As shown by Green, Lib Dem and Labour opposition to this as well.

 

Are these powers that Scotland doesn't currently have as the EU control these areas? Therefore we are not losing anything just waiting a little while to gain more powers. 

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It’s quite simple, Devolution is a framework  where various powers are given to local administrations. These powers will be passed down but not in a haphazard manner. Instead, proper devolution will happen after consultation between the U.K. and the local administrations. It is a well-worn path and one not to be deviated from for the sake of calming a faux outrage. 

 

3 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Lord Sewell who set up the " Sewell convention " would disagree with you. He says the current circumstances are extraordinary and its understandable that Westminster wishes to retain power over certain issues for a limited period.

 

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Are these powers that Scotland doesn't currently have as the EU control these areas? Therefore we are not losing anything just waiting a little while to gain more powers. 

 

I can see all of the above, however, why not simply devolve it, then set up the framework in co-operation with the Pvarious parliaments/devolved assemblies?

 

What Westminster has done here is essentially set a precedent saying "We trump you, so suck it up".  Which, politically, is a dumb move, IMO.

[Thunderstruck]

23 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 

 

I can see all of the above, however, why not simply devolve it, then set up the framework in co-operation with the Pvarious parliaments/devolved assemblies?

 

What Westminster has done here is essentially set a precedent saying "We trump you, so suck it up".  Which, politically, is a dumb move, IMO.

 

Again, it’s a simple reason - act in haste, repent at leisure. 

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Again, it’s a simple reason - act in haste, repent at leisure. 

But if what is handed over is unable to be changed... Its a fait accompli. 

[Hasselhoff]

42 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

According to the Tories food banks are good things. Is that not the case???

 

Food banks are a good thing as it shows a social responsibility to help those who need it. If we didn't have food banks and people literally starved to death, you'd be demanding that we should be more caring and have food banks. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Seems to me that Scotland is so divided and fixated over the Indy yes/no argument that it's not even paying attention to what Westminster is doing

[Hasselhoff]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

But if what is handed over is unable to be changed... Its a fait accompli. 

 

The SNP say independence is inevitable. Why does it matter that powers get devolved to Scotland if we are due to be leaving soon? Unless... they know fine they aren't winning indy any time soon. They want to leave powers with the UK as much as possible because it allows them to blame others for anything bad

[jambo lodge]

41 minutes ago, Boris said:

But if what is handed over is unable to be changed... Its a fait accompli. 

Then its hardly " devolution" as we know it. No point in power if you cannot change things. Its mainly to hold the UK market together after Brexit, beyond that each devolved administration can change policies it but it may affect its biggest market. 

[Don Dan]

1 hour ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

The SNP say independence is inevitable. Why does it matter that powers get devolved to Scotland if we are due to be leaving soon? Unless... they know fine they aren't winning indy any time soon. They want to leave powers with the UK as much as possible because it allows them to blame others for anything bad

 

 

This is “power grab” is being used by the SNP to win them more support. It’s blatantly ovbvious if you are not already an SNP independence supporter. 

[Thunderstruck]

28 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

 

This is “power grab” is being used by the SNP to win them more support. It’s blatantly ovbvious if you are not already an SNP independence supporter. 

 

It’s that but also deflection - masking their poor performance in Government and a less than rosy picture painted by their own Growth Commission. 

 

The appointment of Mike Russell should signal that agreement to anything is far from top priority.  

[Pans Jambo]

30 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It’s that but also deflection - masking their poor performance in Government and a less than rosy picture painted by their own Growth Commission. 

 

The appointment of Mike Russell should signal that agreement to anything is far from top priority.  

More bullshit. Sick of it. Almost every department in the Scottish government outperforms every other home nation but somehow its a ‘poor performance’. 

 

Your a Britnat so bullshit spreading comes naturally. Try your best to stop it eh. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

 

This is “power grab” is being used by the SNP to win them more support. It’s blatantly ovbvious if you are not already an SNP independence supporter. 

Yip. That statement is right up there with the one of my favourites:

 

The SNP are on a very dangerous tack. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.”

Interviewer Colin Mackay:”Is that a bad thing?”

Lord George Foulkes: “No, but they are doing it deliberately.”!!

 

[Thunderstruck]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

More bullshit. Sick of it. Almost every department in the Scottish government outperforms every other home nation but somehow its a ‘poor performance’. 

 

Your a Britnat so bullshit spreading comes naturally. Try your best to stop it eh. 

 

Whataboutery.

 

I don’t accept that you are correct but being better than England does not mean that the job is being done well. Ever heard of damnation by faint praise?

 

The list of subjects on the SNP report card that say “must do better” is long and growing. 

 

I’ll just pick one - Education. Scotland, until recently had a World-leading Education system but now we struggle for mediocrity. What has the SNP done to remedy that?

 

Maybe if enough voters “got sick” of the SNP we might get back to running the country instead of indulging in playground games. 

 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

 

This is “power grab” is being used by the SNP to win them more support. It’s blatantly ovbvious if you are not already an SNP independence supporter. 

 

That's why Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens supported them in the vote at Holyrood?

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Whataboutery.

 

I don’t accept that you are correct but being better than England does not mean that the job is being done well. Ever heard of damnation by faint praise?

 

The list of subjects on the SNP report card that say “must do better” is long and growing. 

 

I’ll just pick one - Education. Scotland, until recently had a World-leading Education system but now we struggle for mediocrity. What has the SNP done to remedy that?

 

Maybe if enough voters “got sick” of the SNP we might get back to running the country instead of indulging in playground games. 

 

Thats more brown sticky stuff right there. 

 

But by your own admission. If England are shit & we are less shit. What British party based in Westminster should we pick to improve out lot then???

Wait! Let me guess, we should all vote Tory and then things will go right uphill eh?

 

GTF!

Edited June 21, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Whataboutery.

 

I don’t accept that you are correct but being better than England does not mean that the job is being done well. Ever heard of damnation by faint praise?

 

The list of subjects on the SNP report card that say “must do better” is long and growing. 

 

I’ll just pick one - Education. Scotland, until recently had a World-leading Education system but now we struggle for mediocrity. What has the SNP done to remedy that?

 

Maybe if enough voters “got sick” of the SNP we might get back to running the country instead of indulging in playground games. 

 

 

That's fair enough, Government should be held to account, but when you look at the opposition parties and how they are doing where they are in power (rUK), what makes you think that they would do better than what their parties are doing elsewhere?  Given that elsewhere isn't as good as here...

[jambo lodge]

Just now, Boris said:

 

That's fair enough, Government should be held to account, but when you look at the opposition parties and how they are doing where they are in power (rUK), what makes you think that they would do better than what their parties are doing elsewhere?  Given that elsewhere isn't as good as here...

We should be doing better than other administrations with the Barnett formula in place. £450m underspend this year, clearly getting too much money?

[Don Dan]

9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

That's why Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens supported them in the vote at Holyrood?

 

Does not change the fact that the SNP using it for their ultimate goal.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Dannie Boy
Does not!

[Thunderstruck]

7 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Thats more brown sticky stuff right there. 

 

But by your own admission. If England are shit & we are less shit. What British party based in Westminster should we pick to improve out lot then???

Wait! Let me guess, we should all vote Tory and then things will go right uphill eh?

 

GTF!

 

Calm down, you’ll give yourself an aneurism. 

 

Also, try moderating your tone if you want to be taken seriously. 

[Boris]

1 minute ago, jambo lodge said:

We should be doing better than other administrations with the Barnett formula in place. £450m underspend this year, clearly getting too much money?

 

Or prudent fiscal management, setting aside £450m for a rainy day/emergency?  Or pump it into the NHS when all bills paid?

 

I don't know.  

 

Getting too much money?  If that's what the formula delivers that is hardly Holyrood's fault, same if it delivers not enough.

 

Performance isn't simply based on money though, is it?

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Does change the fact that the SNP using it for their ultimate goal.

 

Did you mean to type doesn't?

 

Look, I'm sure the SNP will exploit it in whatever way they can to "prove" that they are right!  That's politics.

 

Doesn't mean that they don't have a point!  As echoed by Labour, Lib Dems and Greens.

[Thunderstruck]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

That's fair enough, Government should be held to account, but when you look at the opposition parties and how they are doing where they are in power (rUK), what makes you think that they would do better than what their parties are doing elsewhere?  Given that elsewhere isn't as good as here...

 

As someone else has just said, we should be doing a lot better but we are not.

 

All parties are focussed on matters other than running the economy and that is wrong. Wrong in the U.K. and wrong in Scotland. 

 

We we can blame the Tories for a lot but we should not forget that austerity started 10 years ago in Scotland - two years before the Tories gained power. The source  N. Sturgeon. 

[Boris]

Just now, Thunderstruck said:

 

As someone else has just said, we should be doing a lot better but we are not.

 

All parties are focussed on matters other than running the economy and that is wrong. Wrong in the U.K. and wrong in Scotland. 

 

We we can blame the Tories for a lot but we should not forget that austerity started 10 years ago in Scotland - two years before the Tories gained power. The source  N. Sturgeon. 

 

All well and good, although I'd disagree with you that the economy should be the sole focus of Government.  And I think we all would like to be doing better!

 

But can you answer the question?

 

To recap, it was (essentially) what makes you think any of the other parties would do better than the current administration, given these parties track records currently aren't as good as the incumbent at Holyrood?

[jambo lodge]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Or prudent fiscal management, setting aside £450m for a rainy day/emergency?  Or pump it into the NHS when all bills paid?

 

I don't know.  

 

Getting too much money?  If that's what the formula delivers that is hardly Holyrood's fault, same if it delivers not enough.

 

Performance isn't simply based on money though, is it?

No performance is not based on cash but cash is a big contributory factor in Scotland as compared to say Wales.

[Thunderstruck]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

All well and good, although I'd disagree with you that the economy should be the sole focus of Government.  And I think we all would like to be doing better!

 

But can you answer the question?

 

To recap, it was (essentially) what makes you think any of the other parties would do better than the current administration, given these parties track records currently aren't as good as the incumbent at Holyrood?

 

Assuming you are talking of Holyrood, we can’t know how good or bad they might be. They might, however, be more inclined to better cooperation with Westminster and devoting more ministerial time to management if the economy. 

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Calm down, you’ll give yourself an aneurism. 

 

Also, try moderating your tone if you want to be taken seriously. 

Nope. 

New tact. 

You Britnats have been asking nonsense questions on here since 2012. Getting good & sometimes very detailed answers and then poopooing them when you dont like the answers that dont suit your unionist agendas. 

 

The complete bullshite we heard throughout the Indy campaign from the Britnatz then again in the run up to the EU referendum and since then with less than a year to go the Westminster government STILL lie and mislead the country about their intentions. 

 

Then you lot on here expect detailed answers to your BS questions that your Westminster masters cant even answer. 

 

I’m done with it. I’m not here  to convice anyone to convert to the YES side anymore. I’m just going call out the bullshit.  May and her liars are converting No’s to Yes in their thousands on a daily basis in anycase. 

 

In fact, I dont want you to vote Yes anymore as I want come back on here the morning after the referendum and shove it right up you and your brainwashed minority. 

 

No, I’m not going with your agendas anymore. I’m going with my own. Deal with it. 

[Boris]

Just now, Thunderstruck said:

 

Assuming you are talking of Holyrood, we can’t know how good or bad they might be. They might, however, be more inclined to better cooperation with Westminster and devoting more ministerial time to management if the economy. 

 

 

 

As may the SNP!  As you say, we don't lnow what the future holds.

[Thunderstruck]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Nope. 

New tact. 

You Britnats have been asking nonsense questions on here since 2012. Getting good & sometimes very detailed answers and then poopooing them when you dont like the answers that dont suit your unionist agendas. 

 

The complete bullshite we heard throughout the Indy campaign from the Britnatz then again in the run up to the EU referendum and since then with less than a year to go the Westminster government STILL lie and mislead the country about their intentions. 

 

Then you lot on here expect detailed answers to your BS questions that your Westminster masters cant even answer. 

 

I’m done with it. I’m not here  to convice anyone to convert to the YES side anymore. I’m just going call out the bullshit.  May and her liars are converting No’s to Yes in their thousands on a daily basis in anycase. 

 

In fact, I dont want you to vote Yes anymore as I want come back on here the morning after the referendum and shove it right up you and your brainwashed minority. 

 

No, I’m not going with your agendas anymore. I’m going with my own. Deal with it. 

 

It’s “tack” - it’s a sailing term. 

 

That aside, sorry to see you go. Bye. 

[Thunderstruck]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

As may the SNP!  As you say, we don't lnow what the future holds.

 

Still not holding my breath. 

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Assuming you are talking of Holyrood, we can’t know how good or bad they might be. They might, however, be more inclined to better cooperation with Westminster and devoting more ministerial time to management if the economy. 

 

 

Nice sidestep BTW!

[jambo lodge]

The Scottish Government is obsessed by Independence almost to the exclusion of everything else. If they would focus on governing Scotland first and foremost then their performance would improve. The UK government is obsessed by Brexit almost to the exclusion of anything else. The SNP are using Brexit to focus issues around guess what...…..Independence. Don't think Labour, Tory or Lib Dems could do any worse than the SNP, who are in effect a part time government.   

[Don Dan]

15 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Did you mean to type doesn't?

 

Look, I'm sure the SNP will exploit it in whatever way they can to "prove" that they are right!  That's politics.

 

Doesn't mean that they don't have a point!  As echoed by Labour, Lib Dems and Greens.

 

Yes corrected after I posted?

[Pans Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It’s “tack” - it’s a sailing term. 

 

That aside, sorry to see you go. Bye. 

Indeed, tack. 

 

Dont misunderstand. Not going anywhwere. Just not playing to any Britnat agendas. Your lot have been setting the tone for years. Its done for me.

Will be calling out the BS as and when I see it. 

You can take my opinion or ignore it. Really couldnt give a chuff anymore. 

[Pans Jambo]

11 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

The Scottish Government is obsessed by Independence almost to the exclusion of everything else. If they would focus on governing Scotland first and foremost then their performance would improve. The UK government is obsessed by Brexit almost to the exclusion of anything else. The SNP are using Brexit to focus issues around guess what...…..Independence. Don't think Labour, Tory or Lib Dems could do any worse than the SNP, who are in effect a part time government.   

Utter Cack 

 

The old “get on with the day job” again eh?

 

Bullshite detected!

[Boris]

12 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

The Scottish Government is obsessed by Independence almost to the exclusion of everything else. If they would focus on governing Scotland first and foremost then their performance would improve. The UK government is obsessed by Brexit almost to the exclusion of anything else. The SNP are using Brexit to focus issues around guess what...…..Independence. Don't think Labour, Tory or Lib Dems could do any worse than the SNP, who are in effect a part time government.   

 

Even although they ARE doing worse in rUK?  What would be different?

 

Imagine how good the SNP would be though if they DID focus on governing Scotland first and foremost!  Given the are leading the UK, they would outstrip it by loads if they followed your advice.

 

Ironically doing more for the independence cause than actually focusiing on independence.  You really should be a government adviser!

[jambo lodge]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Even although they ARE doing worse in rUK?  What would be different?

 

Imagine how good the SNP would be though if they DID focus on governing Scotland first and foremost!  Given the are leading the UK, they would outstrip it by loads if they followed your advice.

 

Ironically doing more for the independence cause than actually focusiing on independence.  You really should be a government adviser!

Always thought that should be the policy of the SNP. Do such a craking job and show you are ready for more. Cant even get farm payments right after years of trying.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, jambo lodge said:

Always thought that should be the policy of the SNP. Do such a craking job and show you are ready for more. Cant even get farm payments right after years of trying.

 

IT and Government is usually a farce.

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

 

 

I can see all of the above, however, why not simply devolve it, then set up the framework in co-operation with the Pvarious parliaments/devolved assemblies?

 

What Westminster has done here is essentially set a precedent saying "We trump you, so suck it up".  Which, politically, is a dumb move, IMO.

 

India did the same thing when the gained independence. Adopted all the British Laws in one fell swoop then repealed the ones they did't want at their leisure. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

India did the same thing when the gained independence. Adopted all the British Laws in one fell swoop then repealed the ones they did't want at their leisure. 

That wee tiny country of 5.3 million people?

 

How did they manage???

[Phil Dunphy]

Pans Jambo just spouting utter nonsense to try and get attention.

 

Bit sad for someone who's nearly 50 years old.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

India did the same thing when the gained independence. Adopted all the British Laws in one fell swoop then repealed the ones they did't want at their leisure. 

I suppose my point is that once returned Holyrood won't be able to change things if they wanted to.