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Aberdeen's new stadium...


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6 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 I work with a Reading Season Ticket holder, originally from the town.  He and his son regularly make use of all these services.  He's in his 60s and grew up watching them in much smaller crowds at the delapidated Elm Park.  The advent of the Madejski and the transport infrastructure put in place around it has totally reinvented that club, which thrives despite being so close to London.  Newbury's football fans used to be split between Reading and Swindon but with the change in the clubs' respective fortunes in the last 15 years and that bus service, I imagine the balance has swung overwhelmingly in Reading's favour nowadays.

 

Aberdeen is 150 miles from Glasgow and if they have any brains at all, they'd look to emulate the Reading model.

There are interesting hurdles to overcome. 

For example, the bus service we talk of - there aren't enough buses in the area to do the job on a Saturday afternoon, and exactly because they're not close to large population centres they'll rely on first bus (IIRC) bringing buses long distances to cater for games - that won't be cheap, and may not even be possible in circumstances like strikes, weather in original city, local roadworks etc.

Also, the dons guys on here said that rather than 100 buses leaving at once it would be a smaller number doing repeat runs, so if you're on one of the last buses, how long have you waited? Each bus will take, what, 30 or 40 minutes to get back, assuming there are no traffic slowdowns with thousands leaving at the same time.

 

I can't see that side being an enjoyable experience myself

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I would like to see us enhance the facades , fir instance on matchdays beam legends etc onto the Outer shell of the stands as fans enter , get the old wooden sign from gorgie road up somewhere or bury it in the entranceway in a shell enhancing the experience and embracing the changing of Tynecastle as they did with the bricks and mosaic. Theres loads of wee tweaks we could make to make it a more intimidating/passionate place for those times were not up for it in games. But I agree it needs to be done over time to ensure its cost effective

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3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

There are interesting hurdles to overcome. 

For example, the bus service we talk of - there aren't enough buses in the area to do the job on a Saturday afternoon, and exactly because they're not close to large population centres they'll rely on first bus (IIRC) bringing buses long distances to cater for games - that won't be cheap, and may not even be possible in circumstances like strikes, weather in original city, local roadworks etc.

Also, the dons guys on here said that rather than 100 buses leaving at once it would be a smaller number doing repeat runs, so if you're on one of the last buses, how long have you waited? Each bus will take, what, 30 or 40 minutes to get back, assuming there are no traffic slowdowns with thousands leaving at the same time.

 

I can't see that side being an enjoyable experience myself

On an average Saturday you will be 30/40 mins from Kingsford to City Centre i was that yesterday in my car on an average Tuesday.

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6 minutes ago, sadj said:

On an average Saturday you will be 30/40 mins from Kingsford to City Centre i was that yesterday in my car on an average Tuesday.

Ouch, so pretty much double my guesstimate. So if you don't get that first round of buses you'll be waiting at least an hour for the next ones.

Good luck to them!

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SwindonJambo
8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

There are interesting hurdles to overcome. 

For example, the bus service we talk of - there aren't enough buses in the area to do the job on a Saturday afternoon, and exactly because they're not close to large population centres they'll rely on first bus (IIRC) bringing buses long distances to cater for games - that won't be cheap, and may not even be possible in circumstances like strikes, weather in original city, local roadworks etc.

Also, the dons guys on here said that rather than 100 buses leaving at once it would be a smaller number doing repeat runs, so if you're on one of the last buses, how long have you waited? Each bus will take, what, 30 or 40 minutes to get back, assuming there are no traffic slowdowns with thousands leaving at the same time.

 

I can't see that side being an enjoyable experience myself

 

These are good points.  I just wonder how well they've thought all this through. They definitely need to leave Pittodrie but somewhere easier to get to would have been much better. Travel around Reading is grim and slow, but the fans seem happy to tolerate it as the overall matchday experience is good. It also doesn't have the bus availability issues Aberdeen has because it's in the middle ofa densely packed area.  I do wish them well with the move, because if it goes badly, the OF will just draw even more fans from the area.

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17 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

With 2 notable exceptions I strongly agree with you.  The OF really are a blight on sport and wider society in so many ways and have ruined Scottish Football. Other countries have big dominant clubs too but not to the degree of total strangulation for decades on end as in Scotland.

 

Sorry, yes I meant outside of these 2

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Bazzas right boot
3 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

You cannot possibly say that with any certainty.  It's certainly true that their fanbase is smaller than ours but often an attractive stadium can lead to a huge increase in match attendance from a fixed fanbase.  There are countless examples of that in England. Reading, whose old ground Elm Park was a shithole experienced a huge upswing in crowds 20 years ago when they moved to the Madejski. It's on the edge of town and the town itself is only 40 miles West of London with good transport links so many locals follow London clubs instead yet Reading still manage to get good crowds even though currently fighting relegation from the Championship.

 

 

eh?

their new stadium will be smaller than their current one......

 

I was questions the payback plan of the £35m.

 

Our stand has/ will benefit us in many ways helping the  payback time.

Edited by WeeChuck'sHeed
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SwindonJambo
1 hour ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

eh?

their new stadium will be smaller than their current one......

 

I was questions the payback plan of the £35m.

 

Our stand has/ will benefit us in many ways helping the  payback time.

 

I know all of that. My point is that a more attractive stadium may lead to increased attendances even if the total capacity is smaller.  Pittodrie is a bit of a rickety old mess with only 1 stand up to modern standards. Even if they can, I do agree with you that paying back £35m is a tall order. Our main stand has a much shorter and more achievable payback time.  They're obviously funding a whole new stadium.

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2 hours ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

eh?

their new stadium will be smaller than their current one......

 

I was questions the payback plan of the £35m.

 

Our stand has/ will benefit us in many ways helping the  payback time.

 

They will probably end up not paying it all back and get one of their mega rich benefactors to pick up the tab or even better get the bank to write it off like they and the Hibbees did the last time.

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9 hours ago, john brownlee said:

When HMFC moved to tynecastle it was in the outskirts of Edinburgh, so maybe the sheep a looking to the future.

was up in Aberdeen just recently and it was pretty visible that there lots of house building on the outskirts of the city.

so to me it makes sense to move to a bigger and better facility.

you never know it might stop all the weegie traveling sheep.

 

Unsure of that to be honest.  Here's a map of Edinburgh from around the time that we moved to Tynecastle - https://maps.nls.uk/view/91790211

 

Whilst we were on the outskirts of the town at that point, we still weren't that far away, and it was in a rapidly expanding City due to plenty of industry and opportunity.

 

Tynecastle is about 2 miles away from the City Centre in a straight line.  The new Aberdeen Stadium is around 6 miles from the City Centre in a straight line.  Absolutely no chance will Aberdeen expand that far out, not even in 100 years time.

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4 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

These are good points.  I just wonder how well they've thought all this through. They definitely need to leave Pittodrie but somewhere easier to get to would have been much better. Travel around Reading is grim and slow, but the fans seem happy to tolerate it as the overall matchday experience is good. It also doesn't have the bus availability issues Aberdeen has because it's in the middle ofa densely packed area.  I do wish them well with the move, because if it goes badly, the OF will just draw even more fans from the area.

They tried Loriston which would of been far better but lost out on that and with the bypass that was no longer possible. Sites around Portlethen were discussed (i believe - dont quote me) and then they plumped for Kingsford. There isnt many suitable areas which can hold both the ground and training ground (derek mcinnes - allegedly is the one who says they have to be together). 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
2 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I know all of that. My point is that a more attractive stadium may lead to increased attendances even if the total capacity is smaller.  Pittodrie is a bit of a rickety old mess with only 1 stand up to modern standards. Even if they can, I do agree with you that paying back £35m is a tall order. Our main stand has a much shorter and more achievable payback time.  They're obviously funding a whole new stadium.

 

 

fair doos.

 

There is allot of focus on the transport, so unsure if it will help the overall attendance, but imo overtime that won't be an issue, for me , if I were a sheepy I'd like to know the plan to pay back £35m.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

How many pages will this thread be at the time they play their first game in said new stadium? 135 is my guess

 

200

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  • 9 months later...
On 26/04/2018 at 22:31, SwindonJambo said:

 

They're certainly fairweather but not nearly as much so as Hibs! The Sheep do get some strangely low crowds at times, especially for midweek games and cup competitions while still pulling out an impressive away support, which, of course does not financially benefit them in the slightest.  If they can maintain a decent level of performance though, said fairweather fans will turn up and they'll be able to fill the new gaff fairly well, though only completely for the big games.

They have been the most consistent side the last 5 years outwith Celtic but their fans still haven’t turned up - -that’s a serious issue that they have and I have a hunch a shiny new stadium won’t fix it

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1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

They have been the most consistent side the last 5 years outwith Celtic but their fans still haven’t turned up - -that’s a serious issue that they have and I have a hunch a shiny new stadium won’t fix it

 

Build it and they will come. Sheep Field of Dreams.

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11 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Build it and they will come. Sheep Field of Dreams.

Worked for Hibs. Toothless wonders and jakeys at every home game...!!

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43 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Opposition still fighting 

 

 

All a judicial review can do is highlight to the council where they erred in planning law.

 

Usually when occasions where judicial reviews are upheld, the planning application is almost always re-approved anyway, just with minor changes to the plans or conditions - something which NKS haven't really been open about when fundraising for this legal challenge.

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Carl Fredrickson
19 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Worked for Hibs. Toothless wonders and jakeys at every home game...!!

 

And that was just their bench

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

Not sure what progress being made with the training ground. Meant to be ready this summer all I see every day is diggers shuffling soil

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20 minutes ago, number-16 said:

All a judicial review can do is highlight to the council where they erred in planning law.

 

Usually when occasions where judicial reviews are upheld, the planning application is almost always re-approved anyway, just with minor changes to the plans or conditions - something which NKS haven't really been open about when fundraising for this legal challenge.

 

Or they can be made to reapply from scratch and re-do all consultation. All of which costs money and time they probably don't have. 

Sometimes a lengthy delay is as effective at shutting plans down as a refusal, for certain projects.

 

Anyone know what the grounds are for judicial review? I don't fancy reading too much detail about it but I am interested if anyone knows the basics.

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47 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Not sure what progress being made with the training ground. Meant to be ready this summer all I see every day is diggers shuffling soil

 

I still can't get over how mental it is to plan a £50 million stadium and training facility in the north east and not include an indoor pitch.

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1 hour ago, redm said:

 

Or they can be made to reapply from scratch and re-do all consultation. All of which costs money and time they probably don't have. 

Sometimes a lengthy delay is as effective at shutting plans down as a refusal, for certain projects.

 

Anyone know what the grounds are for judicial review? I don't fancy reading too much detail about it but I am interested if anyone knows the basics.

From the NKS website (https://www.nokingsfordstadium.org.uk/common-questions-and-answers/)

What is the case against Aberdeen City Council?

The case is complex and the detailed legal arguments will be used in court so sharing that here may jeopardise the strategy used in court.

But in a nutshell, ACC haven’t processed the application fairly and haven’t applied the rules correctly.

 

 

So they've not told anyone what the grounds are yet.

 

The arguments are likely to be around the sequential test and whether the need for co-location of training facilities and the stadium was established. They may also try to argue the travel plan wasn't properly considered or that the condition of a Controlled Parking Zone in Westhill was outwith the competence of the council as the area is within Aberdeenshire council.

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53 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I still can't get over how mental it is to plan a £50 million stadium and training facility in the north east and not include an indoor pitch.

Where are they getting 50 million ?

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7 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Where are they getting 50 million ?

Haven't a clue, and let's face it, it'll end up being more than that. 

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1 hour ago, redm said:

 

Or they can be made to reapply from scratch and re-do all consultation. All of which costs money and time they probably don't have. 

Sometimes a lengthy delay is as effective at shutting plans down as a refusal, for certain projects.

 

Anyone know what the grounds are for judicial review? I don't fancy reading too much detail about it but I am interested if anyone knows the basics.

 

Illegality, irregularity and procedural impropriety.

 

It is basically a mechanism for enforcing the separation of powers doctrine by giving the judiciary power to insert checks and balances on the actions of public bodies. Different levels of deference or comity are attributed to the decision of the local authority dependant upon the issue at hand. National security or spending by a public body will always receive a higher level of deference from the judiciary. The concern is the legality of the decision and the process used to arrive at the decision and not the merits of the decision itself.

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This whole thing is a smokescreen for Stewart Milne to build fancy beachside appartments on the Pittodrie site. There is more than enough land for them to renovate their current ground and only need to build 3 sides. 

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1 hour ago, ericb said:

This whole thing is a smokescreen for Stewart Milne to build fancy beachside appartments on the Pittodrie site. There is more than enough land for them to renovate their current ground and only need to build 3 sides. 

 

With the state of the house market in Aberdeen and Brexit looming I wouldn’t fancy investing in that project just right now.

 

 

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2 hours ago, ericb said:

This whole thing is a smokescreen for Stewart Milne to build fancy beachside appartments on the Pittodrie site. There is more than enough land for them to renovate their current ground and only need to build 3 sides. 

 

Maybe, but smashing down their 3 shitheap stands and rebuilding onsite would be very costly. Not to add the reduced capacity during works etc. 

Probably in the grand scheme of things it will strangely work out not too much more given the sale of Pittodries land and the inevitable sponsorships etc they will get for new stadia. They are a one team city so get backed by businesses up there generously 

Edited by 1971fozzy
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  • 1 month later...

Looks like the court has sided with AFC.

 

EDIT: No to Kingsford have 21 days to appeal.

Edited by RDSK
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4 minutes ago, RDSK said:

Looks like the court has sided with AFC.

 

EDIT: No to Kingsford have 21 days to appeal.

 

 

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Unknown user

Well good luck to them, they'll need it. Someone mentioned that york's new 8,000 seater is costing 40 million, but aberdeens 20,000 seater plus training facility and infrastructure like bridges is expected to cost 50!

My. Arse. 

This could ruin them. 

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Hope it goes ahead and is a success. Any club doing well is good for our game (apart from the weegie bigots of course)

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Inch Hearts
7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Well good luck to them, they'll need it. Someone mentioned that york's new 8,000 seater is costing 40 million, but aberdeens 20,000 seater plus training facility and infrastructure like bridges is expected to cost 50!

My. Arse. 

This could ruin them. 

 

It will all be funded externally I would guess. 

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Unknown user
1 minute ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

It will all be funded externally I would guess. 

As I remember they said they had something like 25-30 million accounted for, including the sale of Pittodrie.

If their benefactor is willing to pay for a stretch of the budget they'll be fine, but we've seen ourselves how much things can go over - if they have a 50% overspend that's an extra 25 million to find!

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Nookie Bear
15 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Hope it goes ahead and is a success. Any club doing well is good for our game (apart from the weegie bigots of course)

 

I would rather Aberdeen struggled in the doldrums for a few decades, if its all the same to you :lol:

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

Oddly enough heard yesterday 2024 is a realistic target if they get funding. 

 

First phase cost 10 million and there was a shortfall a wee while ago. Perhaps solved. 

A whole new stadium is a significant stretch but we shall see 

 

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15 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I would rather Aberdeen struggled in the doldrums for a few decades, if its all the same to you :lol:

 

THIS!!!

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2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I would rather Aberdeen struggled in the doldrums for a few decades, if its all the same to you :lol:

it's your choice. You obviously enjoy watching the same two teams (or lately the same one team) win everything. I want Scottish football to be better and that means other clubs improving.

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35 minutes ago, XB52 said:

it's your choice. You obviously enjoy watching the same two teams (or lately the same one team) win everything. I want Scottish football to be better and that means other clubs improving.

 

This. Well said sir.

 

At the end of the day Scottish football is a joke it's all about two teams. Aberdeen and Hearts are two of Scotland's five biggest clubs yet Aberdeen have won a mere 1 major trophy in the last 23 years and Hearts have only won 3 in the last 56 years. And the other non old firm club that make up the biggest five teams is Hibs who have only won the Scottish Cup once in well over 100 years and last won the league in 1952.

 

If anyone thinks the above makes good reading, is acceptable and good for Scottish football then god help them. If AFC can't win the league then I'd love to see a team from Edinburgh do it. In fact anyone except those two bigoted and embarrassing institutions from the west.

 

I hear so many non old firm fans say "But if my team can't be the one to win the league then I don't want any other non old firm team to do it. I'm used to the old firm winning so I'm immune to it".

 

For me it's exactly that trail of thought that holds Scottish football back and means that in 50 years time we will almost certainly still be saying that Aberdeen were the last non old firm team to win the league in 1985. In fact in 50 or 69 years time it will be a quiz question as no living person will remember a title win other than the ugly sisters. 

 

So anything that any non old firm club does to try and improve ( like Hearts' new stand or AFC's new training facility and stadium) should be encouraged by all non old firm fans (long as it's not done via blatant hun type cheating). But Scottish football just isn't like that. Which is why Celtic and Rangers will continue to dominate it for as long as they so wish until someone somewhere eventually gives them an permanent route out of domestic Scottish football.

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Harry Potter
3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I would rather Aberdeen struggled in the doldrums for a few decades, if its all the same to you :lol:

Agree with you on that bud.

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Pants Shaton

For avoidance of doubt, no PHM would ever want Aberdeen to win anything.

 

I don’t miss much about ‘Therapist’ but his views on Aberdeen were spot on. 

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6 minutes ago, Pants Shaton said:

For avoidance of doubt, no PHM would ever want Aberdeen to win anything.

 

I don’t miss much about ‘Therapist’ but his views on Aberdeen were spot on. 

 

Ok I'll put that to the test.

 

There is an (admittedly remote) possibility of an Aberdeen vs Hibernian Scottish Cup Final this season. Going by your words you'd want Hibs to win that particular game then?

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Nookie Bear
6 minutes ago, RedCity said:

 

Ok I'll put that to the test.

 

There is an (admittedly remote) possibility of an Aberdeen vs Hibernian Scottish Cup Final this season. Going by your words you'd want Hibs to win that particular game then?

 

Daft question, it would be like asking you who you would like to see win a game between your true rivals: Dundee &ICT

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The Treasurer
32 minutes ago, RedCity said:

 

This. Well said sir.

 

At the end of the day Scottish football is a joke it's all about two teams. Aberdeen and Hearts are two of Scotland's five biggest clubs yet Aberdeen have won a mere 1 major trophy in the last 23 years and Hearts have only won 3 in the last 56 years. And the other non old firm club that make up the biggest five teams is Hibs who have only won the Scottish Cup once in well over 100 years and last won the league in 1952.

 

If anyone thinks the above makes good reading, is acceptable and good for Scottish football then god help them. If AFC can't win the league then I'd love to see a team from Edinburgh do it. In fact anyone except those two bigoted and embarrassing institutions from the west.

 

I hear so many non old firm fans say "But if my team can't be the one to win the league then I don't want any other non old firm team to do it. I'm used to the old firm winning so I'm immune to it".

 

For me it's exactly that trail of thought that holds Scottish football back and means that in 50 years time we will almost certainly still be saying that Aberdeen were the last non old firm team to win the league in 1985. In fact in 50 or 69 years time it will be a quiz question as no living person will remember a title win other than the ugly sisters. 

 

So anything that any non old firm club does to try and improve ( like Hearts' new stand or AFC's new training facility and stadium) should be encouraged by all non old firm fans (long as it's not done via blatant hun type cheating). But Scottish football just isn't like that. Which is why Celtic and Rangers will continue to dominate it for as long as they so wish until someone somewhere eventually gives them an permanent route out of domestic Scottish football.

If what you say is true, why did your club vote with to keep things as they were when the clubs had a chance to make significant change.

Truth is you are no different from the Kilmarnocks and St Mirrens when it comes to bowing to the arse cheeks

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Nookie Bear
1 hour ago, XB52 said:

it's your choice. You obviously enjoy watching the same two teams (or lately the same one team) win everything. I want Scottish football to be better and that means other clubs improving.

 

In fairness, this new stadium guarantees nothing except increased expectations.

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