Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I've been openly scathing of what this club stands for and the pure commercialism that's behind them, but since young Burke signed for them I've been keeping an eye on them. Burke isn't playing every week, but he's played well when he's been involved and he usually comes on as a substitute if he doesn't start. The club are second in the bloody bundesliga now, 2 points behind Bayern, and haven't lost in 8 top division games. They only sign players 24 and under too, they plan to be taken seriously for years to come. Like I say, I hate what they stand for but it's amazing that a young Scotland international is involved and isn't looking out of his depth so they're kind of pulling me in. Watch them develop this season, they might be on to something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 What do they stand for, genuinely no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 What do they stand for, genuinely no ideaRed Bull, and the advancement thereof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 If you don't know them this is a good start http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/public-enemy-no-1-rb-leipzig-not-winning-popularity-contests-389188 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I've been openly scathing of what this club stands for and the pure commercialism that's behind them, but since young Burke signed for them I've been keeping an eye on them. Burke isn't playing every week, but he's played well when he's been involved and he usually comes on as a substitute if he doesn't start. The club are second in the bloody bundesliga now, 2 points behind Bayern, and haven't lost in 8 top division games. They only sign players 24 and under too, they plan to be taken seriously for years to come. Like I say, I hate what they stand for but it's amazing that a young Scotland international is involved and isn't looking out of his depth so they're kind of pulling me in. Watch them develop this season, they might be on to something! Is what they stand for necessarily any worse than a perpetual Bayern Munich stroll to the Bundesliga? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Is what they stand for necessarily any worse than a perpetual Bayern Munich stroll to the Bundesliga? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk That's a definite yes for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 That's a definite yes for meI'd rather see a traditional, established team compete but in the era of "financial fair play" that's increasingly unlikely. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'd rather see a traditional, established team compete but in the era of "financial fair play" that's increasingly unlikely. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk This is just the start, it's just a matter of time before it spreads further, whether Red bull or someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 This is just the start, it's just a matter of time before it spreads further, whether Red bull or someone else.Football at the top level sold its soul years ago. Best just ignored now imo. This particular team isn't any worse than bayern Munich buying the league title every year imo If people showed less interest them these people and teams would go away and football will once again become a fair sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Football at the top level sold its soul years ago. Best just ignored now imo If people showed less interest them these people and teams would go away and football will once again become a fair sport. You're right, the wars already been lost at that level, but I think the level below can still thrive in a way that will satisfy football fans. I like to think more and more people will look to their local teams as the champions league and epl get less and less relatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'd happily take a massive Red Bull investment in Hearts if it meant an actual challenge to Celtic. It's laughable that people are getting all humpty about this particular club given the cartel like way the 'big' clubs around Europe operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'd happily take a massive Red Bull investment in Hearts if it meant an actual challenge to Celtic. It's laughable that people are getting all humpty about this particular club given the cartel like way the 'big' clubs around Europe operate. You think? They have history so we know what they'd do. They'd come in and change the name to Red Bull Edinburgh, change the kit to white, change the badge and, if going down the route they did with Red Bull Salzburg, disown our history and claim the club just started. I don't think it's laughable to fear that as a football fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'd happily take a massive Red Bull investment in Hearts if it meant an actual challenge to Celtic. It's laughable that people are getting all humpty about this particular club given the cartel like way the 'big' clubs around Europe operate. Where would you draw the line though - renaming the stadium? Changing the strip colour? Changing the team's name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'd happily take a massive Red Bull investment in Hearts if it meant an actual challenge to Celtic. It's laughable that people are getting all humpty about this particular club given the cartel like way the 'big' clubs around Europe operate. Selling our soul for some silver? Thankfully some of us still have principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Gorgie Bull Hearts has a nice ring to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Ah ok. So basically it's why we have the FoH to prevent and preserve what we hold dear. It would be empty to win anything that way. I don't have a problem though with the theory but not for my club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Ah ok. So basically it's why we have the FoH to prevent and preserve what we hold dear. It would be empty to win anything that way. I don't have a problem though with the theory but not for my club A lot of folk theorised that Romanov's ownership in, and spending on, us was motivated by a desire to advance his business interests. Personally, I didn't think that was what drove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'd happily take a massive Red Bull investment in Hearts if it meant an actual challenge to Celtic. It's laughable that people are getting all humpty about this particular club given the cartel like way the 'big' clubs around Europe operate. I would rather win a cup every now and again and have our odd time of glory than sell our souls and history thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 A lot of folk theorised that Romanov's ownership in, and spending on, us was motivated by a desire to advance his business interests. Personally, I didn't think that was what drove it.Was a secondary benefit or meant to be. He loved his toys. Our debt rose above 40 million at one point, overlooked for dramatic purpose, many forget he vastly reduced that debt.Though reckless and at times incompetent, I don't believe he ever wanted Hearts going to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Was a secondary benefit or meant to be. He loved his toys. Our debt rose above 40 million at one point, overlooked for dramatic purpose, many forget he vastly reduced that debt. Though reckless and at times incompetent, I don't believe he ever wanted Hearts going to the wall. I don't think so, either. Purely a toy, I reckon. Think the financial control aspect was just recklessly ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 A lot of folk theorised that Romanov's ownership in, and spending on, us was motivated by a desire to advance his business interests. Personally, I didn't think that was what drove it. I think there was a bit of that in it, he wanted to get Ukio into the hugely lucrative UK banking sector and if he hadn't been so mental he would probably have built up the contacts and means to do it. But it was mostly ego imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Smithee is slightly confusing the debate by bringing up Salzburg. RB Leipzeig were a team not of any note, they've invested in the club and look to be doing it in a sustainable manner. How it's any different than Mercedes etc pumping millions into Bayern I don't know. Man City or RB doing well bothers me not a Jot it's like some people like knowing their place and think the same teams should be at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Smithee is slightly confusing the debate by bringing up Salzburg. RB Leipzeig were a team not of any note, they've invested in the club and look to be doing it in a sustainable manner. How it's any different than Mercedes etc pumping millions into Bayern I don't know. Man City or RB doing well bothers me not a Jot it's like some people like knowing their place and think the same teams should be at the top. I brought up Salzburg because someone said they'd be happy for red bull to pump their millions into Hearts. Leipzig isn't a suitable comparison as RB took over an amateur team, while Salzburg is - they took over an existing professional team and tried to wipe out their history, only being forced to acknowledge that history by the Austrian fa. It's nothing to do with "how dare they not know their place" and everything to do with contempt for rampant capitalism extending this far into football. I don't like other examples of it either, but let's not forget one thing - RB Leipzig exist because Red Bull's PR department decided it would be a good PR exercise, and they exist for and at the behest of Red Bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I know a Hibs fan who once claimed they knew one of the directors at Red Bull, and that they were going to invest millions of pounds into Hibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudiHMFC Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I like them, hope they win the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Only signs young players and challenging at the top? Stands for ok by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Only signs young players and challenging at the top? Stands for ok by me. Well this is it. All of that aside, in football terms the club are doing an awful lot right, and they're pretty exciting to watch from the little I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Shaking with rage at everything they stand for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudiHMFC Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Shaking with rage at everything they stand for. Guessing this is a joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well this is it. All of that aside, in football terms the club are doing an awful lot right, and they're pretty exciting to watch from the little I've seen. And by default they have increased your interest in the bundeslega this season. Doing a lot right. It's very easy to criticise money and commercialism but it isn't necessarily bad. In fact we, under Romanov, were almost the epitome of what you think or thought you hate(d) about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well this is it. All of that aside, in football terms the club are doing an awful lot right, and they're pretty exciting to watch from the little I've seen.In fairness you're right about changing the name and colours and trying to extinguish the history. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 And by default they have increased your interest in the bundeslega this season. Doing a lot right. It's very easy to criticise money and commercialism but it isn't necessarily bad. In fact we, under Romanov, were almost the epitome of what you think or thought you hate(d) about them. Well that's up for debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I brought up Salzburg because someone said they'd be happy for red bull to pump their millions into Hearts. Leipzig isn't a suitable comparison as RB took over an amateur team, while Salzburg is - they took over an existing professional team and tried to wipe out their history, only being forced to acknowledge that history by the Austrian fa. It's nothing to do with "how dare they not know their place" and everything to do with contempt for rampant capitalism extending this far into football. I don't like other examples of it either, but let's not forget one thing - RB Leipzig exist because Red Bull's PR department decided it would be a good PR exercise, and they exist for and at the behest of Red Bull. If you have contempt for Rampant capitalism then you wouldn't watch much professional football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Is it any worse than a sheikh choosing to make Man City a club of note to further his own personal business interests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 If you have contempt for Rampant capitalism then you wouldn't watch much professional football.I don't, Hearts aside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 In fairness you're right about changing the name and colours and trying to extinguish the history. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Changes the dynamic and identity of the club. West Ham are struggling with a ground change. These things take time to swap over generations. On a small scale I always thought Livingston was the right thing to do for example. But for a club like ours, Cardiff or Hull, where it could have happened, sacrilege Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well that's up for debate! Yep, I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Ignoring the issue over their rise and Red Bull investment, they do a appear to be the best player for Burke's development. When he was being flown over to them, their sporting director sat down and gave a lengthy explanation of how they viewed his development will go, both in the short term and long term. Giving a break down on bits they will work on, how that will happen, what the plan is in game time. One example of where they view his development is off the ball, his manager said that in regard to Burke's off the ball ability, his "hard drive" is empty and they feel it take time for him to reach the intensity to reach the 90 minutes for Leipzig. But that is what a youngster needs. To be given direction, a development plan which the club has the patience and know how to implement. Plus their ability in the league show a club that will be an established Bundisliga club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Scotland tends to put too much emphasis on tradition. It's nice but to compete at the top there's no room for it. Whether it be about stadiums, teams, names we place allot in tradation. If it meant winning the league I wouldn't care how it came about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Ignoring the issue over their rise and Red Bull investment, they do a appear to be the best player for Burke's development. When he was being flown over to them, their sporting director sat down and gave a lengthy explanation of how they viewed his development will go, both in the short term and long term. Giving a break down on bits they will work on, how that will happen, what the plan is in game time. One example of where they view his development is off the ball, his manager said that in regard to Burke's off the ball ability, his "hard drive" is empty and they feel it take time for him to reach the intensity to reach the 90 minutes for Leipzig. But that is what a youngster needs. To be given direction, a development plan which the club has the patience and know how to implement. Plus their ability in the league show a club that will be an established Bundisliga club. It's such a conflict for me, if that club was doing what it was doing without the background stuff it would be hard to argue with. But I really struggle to see why a football fan would be unconcerned with the prospect of Nike vs McDonald's looming on the horizon, cos that's the door that's been opened. Yes there are teams like Wolfsburg who are owned by volkswagen and have been around for years, but the crucial differences are that they started as works teams for their employees, and their ownership structure wouldn't be allowed today if they were a new team. But... as you say, in purely football terms, they're sharp. They know what they're doing and they've got intelligent, resourceful, motivated people at the top. I have to agree that Burke seems to have landed at a place that could benefit him and Scotland most too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Scotland tends to put too much emphasis on tradition. It's nice but to compete at the top there's no room for it. Whether it be about stadiums, teams, names we place allot in tradation. If it meant winning the league I wouldn't care how it came about. Honestly? If Red Bull Gorgie, founded 2017 and playing at the Red Bull Stadium in white and red win the league, you honestly wouldn't care that the name, history, colours and traditions of Hearts had been wiped out to get them there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamtartan74 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 What do they stand for, genuinely no idearobbing *******s, maybe? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 You think? They have history so we know what they'd do. They'd come in and change the name to Red Bull Edinburgh, change the kit to white, change the badge and, if going down the route they did with Red Bull Salzburg, disown our history and claim the club just started. I don't think it's laughable to fear that as a football fan Would you still support them though? Or would you toddle off to the hobos Genuine question Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I can see why people despise everything they stand for however they do seem to be doing a lot right. Take away all the gimmicky marketing PR pish and it's a model that many against would commend. Just be grateful we don't live 100+ years from now because football has and will continue to change. Off the pitch, admin could be one of the greatest things to have ever happened to Hearts! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Rob Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Ignoring the issue over their rise and Red Bull investment, they do a appear to be the best player for Burke's development. When he was being flown over to them, their sporting director sat down and gave a lengthy explanation of how they viewed his development will go, both in the short term and long term. Giving a break down on bits they will work on, how that will happen, what the plan is in game time. One example of where they view his development is off the ball, his manager said that in regard to Burke's off the ball ability, his "hard drive" is empty and they feel it take time for him to reach the intensity to reach the 90 minutes for Leipzig. But that is what a youngster needs. To be given direction, a development plan which the club has the patience and know how to implement. Plus their ability in the league show a club that will be an established Bundisliga club. The key part for me is that they are prepared to develop him whilst he plays in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I find it hard to get worked up about this when we have the EPL on our doorstep. Similar has happened with Hull and Cardiff in recent years (nickname and colour changes). I wouldn't be happy if it happened to hearts but if it happens elsewhere I'm fairly non plussed about it. If there was anything really upsetting about RB Leipzig I''m sure they wouldn't be getting 30000 turning up each week. Added to the points mentioned earlier about the way the club is being run I hope they do well. The thing with Salzburg was completely misjudged but Red Bull is a largely American company and, with their franchised top league, I think they struggle to understand European fan mentality. I think they've learned their lesson which is why they plucked a team from obscurity in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I find it hard to get worked up about this when we have the EPL on our doorstep. Similar has happened with Hull and Cardiff in recent years (nickname and colour changes). I wouldn't be happy if it happened to hearts but if it happens elsewhere I'm fairly non plussed about it. If there was anything really upsetting about RB Leipzig I''m sure they wouldn't be getting 30000 turning up each week. Added to the points mentioned earlier about the way the club is being run I hope they do well. The thing with Salzburg was completely misjudged but Red Bull is a largely American company and, with their franchised top league, I think they struggle to understand European fan mentality. I think they've learned their lesson which is why they plucked a team from obscurity in Germany. I thought Red Bull was majority owned by a Thai, and based in Austria? Are most of their sporting ventures not focused out of the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 I thought Red Bull was majority owned by a Thai, and based in Austria? Are most of their sporting ventures not focused out of the US? Don't know, never really looked into it. Just got the impression they were American and thought New York was their first team so put 2+2 together. Maybe the result was 5. Still think the point about learning their lesson stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Don't know, never really looked into it. Just got the impression they were American and thought New York was their first team so put 2+2 together. Maybe the result was 5. Still think the point about learning their lesson stands. Poor old Americans get the blame for everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Red bull/monster/mountain dew all work the same way. Throw money about and get the brand absolutely everywhere. It works rightly or wrongly. They get marketing but don't always get the sport. Its not for me and would not want them anywhere near Hearts. I enjoy watching Leipzig. Breath of fresh air in footballing terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.