Sam was tired.........

[Clerry Jambo]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/sam-nicholson-i-suffered-burn-out-but-now-i-m-back-1-4234386

[Beast Boy]

He's summed up the modern football fan mentality perfectly with this quote:

 

"... Last season, when I wasn?t doing well, I heard a lot of people?s comments saying ?aw, he?s no good anymore? and stuff like that? he explained. ?I was thinking ?I?m just tired?. That?s something that just comes with football and when people don?t think you?re doing well, they maybe don?t understand why... "

 

Fans seem to think players are robots, or probably more accurately, pixels on a screen generated by Sony or Microsoft. You see it every single week on here where a player can be outstanding for weeks and then after a bad game or two, suddenly they are shit... Like they have just suddenly lost all their ability to play football over night. Seen it in recent times with Driver, Suso, Paterson, Walker, ?zt?rk, Sow... Many many more besides too. People need to get their heads around the effects of injuries, fitness and personal issues affecting a players performances and not just take the ridiculously simplistic view that a player can become shit overnight.

[Billy Walsh]

He's summed up the modern football fan mentality perfectly with this quote:

 

"... Last season, when I wasn?t doing well, I heard a lot of people?s comments saying ?aw, he?s no good anymore? and stuff like that? he explained. ?I was thinking ?I?m just tired?. That?s something that just comes with football and when people don?t think you?re doing well, they maybe don?t understand why... "

 

Fans seem to think players are robots, or probably more accurately, pixels on a screen generated by Sony or Microsoft. You see it every single week on here where a player can be outstanding for weeks and then after a bad game or two, suddenly they are shit... Like they have just suddenly lost all their ability to play football over night. Seen it in recent times with Driver, Suso, Paterson, Walker, ?zt?rk, Sow... Many many more besides too. People need to get their heads around the effects of injuries, fitness and personal issues affecting a players performances and not just take the ridiculously simplistic view that a player can become shit overnight.

 

This.

 

Wish people took this view after a defeat too. Can't win every game etc.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I don't expect them to be robots however if they're tired they're not fully fit and maybe should be either on the pitch or the bench. They should also communicate with the manager.

 

Regardless I get that he (they're) human.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Beast Boy]

This.

 

Wish people took this view after a defeat too. Can't win every game etc.

That's easily swatted aside by the mind-boggling idea that not messing your undercrackers after a defeat is somehow akin to a "losers attitude", and that demanding a level of success that is ridiculously high, will somehow make the team achieve it. I mean seriously, why has nobody ever thought of this before? All we need to do is demand that we win the Premiership, get to the last 16 of the CL and win the EL the season after, and it'll inevitably become a reality.

[Beast Boy]

I don't expect them to be robots however if they're tired they're not fully fit and maybe should be either on the pitch or the bench. They should also communicate with the manager.

 

Regardless I get that he (they're) human.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We can't win when we do that either. As soon as a player is left out to recover or to get their self together, Neilson is "tinkering" or "over-thinking", or we "don't have enough quality to rotate our squad".

[Rudolf's Mate]

We can't win when we do that either. As soon as a player is left out to recover or to get their self together, Neilson is "tinkering" or "over-thinking", or we "don't have enough quality to rotate our squad".

Not disagreeing with you at all re that. Perhaps the manager should be more open about why he's tinkering then? You see other managers saying this or that player was struggling, carrying an injury etc and is therefore on the bench or not in the squad.

 

If this was the reason for the tinkering then saying so might shut a lot of people up.

 

Maybe he has/had?

[RudiHMFC]

He was probably thinking, **** sake why punt Billy King out on loan while I'm toiling when he could have been here playing instead of me.

[Beast Boy]

Not disagreeing with you at all re that. Perhaps the manager should be more open about why he's tinkering then? You see other managers saying this or that player was struggling, carrying an injury etc and is therefore on the bench or not in the squad.

 

If this was the reason for the tinkering then saying so might shut a lot of people up.

 

Maybe he has/had?

Maybe he could do that more to be fair. I remember him doing this with King though, and all of a sudden you had a barrage of comments about how he's being mistreated and that's him away now.

[OmiyaHearts]

Tired for over half a season? Aye no bother Sam.

 

Even if it is the case, then the manger should get stick for putting King out on loan while Sam is 'tired'.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Maybe he could do that more to be fair. I remember him doing this with King though, and all of a sudden you had a barrage of comments about how he's being mistreated and that's him away now.

So we have King who we were told was carrying knocks/not fully fit not getting the game time he wants compared to Sam, who is now telling us he wasn't fully fit and getting the game time and by his own words, not performing.

 

Fit or not, one of Sam's issues was he became predictable for opposition players. When you cut inside every single time the opposition knows what you're going to do and can make you less effective. He seems to have cut this out as much.

 

 

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[Beast Boy]

So we have King who was carrying knocks/not fully fit not getting the game time he wants compared to Sam, who is telling us he wasn't fully fit and getting the game time and by his own words, not performing.

 

Fit or not, one of Sam's issues was he became predictable for opposition players. When you cut inside every single time the opposition knows what you're going to do and can make you less effective. He seems to have cut this out as much.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree about Sam becoming predictable to an extent. The Cup Derby at Tynecastle was frustrating as hell. The amount of times he tried to knock the ball past Gray and run past him, only to be beaten for pace was ridiculous. He looked like his body wasn't up to speed with his brain in that match.

 

Neilson has spoken very highly of King a few times and always with a caveat of if he sorts his confidence out, he'll go on to great things. To do that, King needs more games than his performances merited in the manager's eyes.

[upgotheheads]

He's summed up the modern football fan mentality perfectly with this quote:

 

"... Last season, when I wasn?t doing well, I heard a lot of people?s comments saying ?aw, he?s no good anymore? and stuff like that? he explained. ?I was thinking ?I?m just tired?. That?s something that just comes with football and when people don?t think you?re doing well, they maybe don?t understand why... "

 

Fans seem to think players are robots, or probably more accurately, pixels on a screen generated by Sony or Microsoft. You see it every single week on here where a player can be outstanding for weeks and then after a bad game or two, suddenly they are shit... Like they have just suddenly lost all their ability to play football over night. Seen it in recent times with Driver, Suso, Paterson, Walker, ?zt?rk, Sow... Many many more besides too. People need to get their heads around the effects of injuries, fitness and personal issues affecting a players performances and not just take the ridiculously simplistic view that a player can become shit overnight.

 

 

That's easily swatted aside by the mind-boggling idea that not messing your undercrackers after a defeat is somehow akin to a "losers attitude", and that demanding a level of success that is ridiculously high, will somehow make the team achieve it. I mean seriously, why has nobody ever thought of this before? All we need to do is demand that we win the Premiership, get to the last 16 of the CL and win the EL the season after, and it'll inevitably become a reality.

 

This.

 

 

Over the years I've lost count of the number of players who have looked good for a few games and then faded, never to be seen again.

 

Why this happens is a mystery to me, never having played any game at a level high enough to understand the physical and mental strains of top performers. It's good news for Sam and Hearts that he's  capable of coming back from a dip in form to his current performance level. He seems to have stopped the diagonal runs which come to nothing in favour of a quick ball in, which I put down to coaching.

 

I hope he signs an extended contract soon, and is cut some slack when his form slips again as it probably will at some point. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

We can't win when we do that either. As soon as a player is left out to recover or to get their self together, Neilson is "tinkering" or "over-thinking", or we "don't have enough quality to rotate our squad".

ur doing exactly what ur accusing others of

 

I'm fairly sure not one poster complained about walker coming in for Sam after Patrick - and before its construed that it's because we won there has been plenty negatives posted after wins before

 

also lots and lots of players sams age end up not making it for a variety of reasons including ones capped at his age for Scotland

 

in short I disagree

 

I agree with the why was billy king punted when poor Sam was so tired stuff tho

[seebeegee]

No disputing players get tired and that Sam will have felt jaded at some point over a long season at a higher level, but they are all wearing the gps "bras" that provide all the statistical analysis on a player. They continually go on about being able to see changes in fitness, dips in form, health changes etc so they can observe tiredness. Surely if he's been struggling his stats would have changed and they'd have seen the need to rest him. 

 

I like Sam as a player and I think wingers get a particularly hard time as if they are not skinning folk and hitting the byeline every time they are slated. It may just be the defender is having a stormer that day. These things happen.

[Phil Dunphy]

He's summed up the modern football fan mentality perfectly with this quote:

 

"... Last season, when I wasn?t doing well, I heard a lot of people?s comments saying ?aw, he?s no good anymore? and stuff like that? he explained. ?I was thinking ?I?m just tired?. That?s something that just comes with football and when people don?t think you?re doing well, they maybe don?t understand why... "

 

Fans seem to think players are robots, or probably more accurately, pixels on a screen generated by Sony or Microsoft. You see it every single week on here where a player can be outstanding for weeks and then after a bad game or two, suddenly they are shit... Like they have just suddenly lost all their ability to play football over night. Seen it in recent times with Driver, Suso, Paterson, Walker, ?zt?rk, Sow... Many many more besides too. People need to get their heads around the effects of injuries, fitness and personal issues affecting a players performances and not just take the ridiculously simplistic view that a player can become shit overnight.

 

Juanma.

[Irufushi]

Poor Sam.

[kila]

Has he learnt to cook yet?

[amadjambo]

Most could see he needed a rest. Sadly the manager couldn't.

[Fort Vallance]

Most could see he needed a rest. Sadly the manager couldn't.

I don't know if they're still doing the triple sessions. I just hope they're not leaving their best on the training pitch.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Hindsight etc. We most likely reached our highest placing possible both years.

King is getting opportunity to prove and improve out of the spotlight other players got an opportunity to show if they could fit in with no risk.

I would say things have been handled pretty well. Sam seems to think so and it is a happy camp.

 

According to one of the players who is unhappy.

 

Roasters going to roast

[We_are_the_Hearts]

This article would make me question his mental toughness to go much higher in the game. He is defo looking a lot better for us though and easily our best player on Saturday.

[jamboozy]

Has he learnt to cook yet?

Ha ha, lol when I read this, it could be part of his problem, too many pot noodles and 'ding' meals would seriously hamper your stamina, what he needs is a guid bowl o lentil soup doon him!

[Jammy T]

The point of the King loan move was that Zanatta was going to get more game time second half of last season.

 

Which he did...

[glastonbury jambo]

tired...pish , he's a young guy

[Harry Potter]

Ha ha, lol when I read this, it could be part of his problem, too many pot noodles and 'ding' meals would seriously hamper your stamina, what he needs is a guid bowl o lentil soup doon him!

TBF i used to get tired on a saturday after a game with Toby thistle ( Sat league).

mind u working 12 hour shifts never helped my cause.

As for Sam, sure he will come good, great game against invernessy.

[Rudolf's Mate]

The point of the King loan move was that Zanatta was going to get more game time second half of last season.

 

Which he did...

Zanatta or King who would you have rather got more time?

 

But hey we're all roasters for not having maroon tinted specs on and seeing everything the way Robbie sees it [emoji57]

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Zanatta or King who would you have rather got more time?

 

But hey we're all roasters for not having maroon tinted specs on and seeing everything the way Robbie sees it [emoji57]

We knew what we were getting from King, we wanted to see what we would get from Zanatta, whilst we had a big cushion. That is good management.

 

Now we have started afresh, Zanatta will continue his development in the age group, probably like King a loan deal to further his game time.

[Jammy T]

Zanatta or King who would you have rather got more time?

 

But hey we're all roasters for not having maroon tinted specs on and seeing everything the way Robbie sees it [emoji57]

 

We are a development club - we knew what King was and wasn't bringing to the SPL table. We didn't know how Zanatta would adapt. He'd been playing well in the U20s and was considered worth giving some game time to.

 

What is controversial about that? In the games that he played he did ok.

 

How are we going to encourage good young players to the club if they don't get game time?

 

Since then most Hearts fans have accepted that King probably wasn't bringing enough to the table or hadn't progressed as much as hoped. His form since January largely proves this. One goal against Celtic certainly doesn't disprove it.

 

Using the loaning  out of King last season and this, as a pointless shitty stick to beat Neilson with shows how much barrel scraping has to go on to contrive a dig against Neilson.

[Livvyjambo]

Sam has struggled against the better full backs in spl and that is a worry. That aside he should have been rested at the turn of the year but letting King go was a big mistake from management and left us short out wide . Lad was poorly managed

[Jammy T]

We knew what we were getting from King, we wanted to see what we would get from Zanatta, whilst we had a big cushion. That is good management.

 

Now we have started afresh, Zanatta will continue his development in the age group, probably like King a loan deal to further his game time.

[Bazzas right boot]

He's summed up the modern football fan mentality perfectly with this quote:

 

"... Last season, when I wasn?t doing well, I heard a lot of people?s comments saying ?aw, he?s no good anymore? and stuff like that? he explained. ?I was thinking ?I?m just tired?. That?s something that just comes with football and when people don?t think you?re doing well, they maybe don?t understand why... "

 

Fans seem to think players are robots, or probably more accurately, pixels on a screen generated by Sony or Microsoft. You see it every single week on here where a player can be outstanding for weeks and then after a bad game or two, suddenly they are shit... Like they have just suddenly lost all their ability to play football over night. Seen it in recent times with Driver, Suso, Paterson, Walker, ?zt?rk, Sow... Many many more besides too. People need to get their heads around the effects of injuries, fitness and personal issues affecting a players performances and not just take the ridiculously simplistic view that a player can become shit overnight.

 

 

Too sensible

 

Players are either great, worth ?5m or wage thief's.

[Bazzas right boot]

This article would make me question his mental toughness to go much higher in the game. He is defo looking a lot better for us though and easily our best player on Saturday.

 

 

Wingers even at the highest level go through this.

 

Reason why these teams often rotate 4/5 players per game.

 

We are not at that level, but tiredness can affect anyone, this is why we have squads.

[busby1985]

I believe football is a now a 4 game sport. We used to judge managers on years. Then we started judging managers over a season. Now we judge everything over about 4 games. Players and managers now live and die by a window of about 4 matches. Look at Jose at Man U. Three games ago they where back and looking like title contenders. Beaten by Man City, beaten in Europe and now beaten at Watford. Fans are chanting for him to be sacked all ready. Sam suffers from the same. MoTM last week, lose at home to County and he's back to being a dud. Paterson is havin the same issue as we speak. Paterson has been a stand out for about 4 seasons now, he's not started the season well and now people don't rate him. Rangers and Mark Warburton are also case and point. Lose at Lillie, smashed off Celtic, draw with County. They go into tonight's cup game as must win and they then face Aberdeen on Sunday. Lose both and Warburton will be lucky to see out October. It's a crazy game.

[Rudolf's Mate]

We are a development club - we knew what King was and wasn't bringing to the SPL table. We didn't know how Zanatta would adapt. He'd been playing well in the U20s and was considered worth giving some game time to.

 

What is controversial about that? In the games that he played he did ok.

 

How are we going to encourage good young players to the club if they don't get game time?

 

Since then most Hearts fans have accepted that King probably wasn't bringing enough to the table or hadn't progressed as much as hoped. His form since January largely proves this. One goal against Celtic certainly doesn't disprove it.

 

Using the loaning out of King last season and this, as a pointless shitty stick to beat Neilson with shows how much barrel scraping has to go on to contrive a dig against Neilson.

Robbie isn't infallible and every manager makes mistakes. It's possible we've only scratched the surface with both players however IMO King is the better prospect of the two.

 

Nothing controversial at all and just an opinion which I'm happy to admit I might be wrong. People shouldn't assume that anyone with a view is either trying to stir up trouble or cause controversy just because they might seem to question the managers decision.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

again the Robbie defence doesn't really add up as the backbone of it is to continue to play a tired player

 

if Sam was too tired to play then king/Sam 1st choice and zanatta sub/back up/odd game could have occurred

 

instead a tired player wheeled-out week after week with the odd respite if zanatta steps in

 

doesn't jump out as great planning

 

for what it's worth I think the problem is that rather than tiredness being the fundamental issue with Sam it's more that's he's not really that great - sometimes he plays quite well sometimes he doesn't - in not convinced he'll consistently play above the level he is now

 

if he really was tired surely questions can be asked of robbie? surely questions can be asked? if like almost all human beings Sam is just looking for a neat retrospective excuse for things not going well then maybe it's not so clear cut - maybe it isn't robbies fault (this time)

[Mikey1874]

We missed not having Billy King to give him a rest.

[Swimmer]

Sam is a professional footballer that would want to play every minute of every game.

 

I am sure that if Robbie asked how he felt that he definitely would not have said I am tired gaffer. He would have more likely said, i'm fine, let me play! There has to be an element of trust from the player and who can blame a young player to want to play every game!

 

He is young, learning what his body is capable of and I am sure that faced with the same questions he will still say, yeah I am fine gaffer.

 

Good luck to him, he will be an important player for us and I for one will be supporting him and the team.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

again the Robbie defence doesn't really add up as the backbone of it is to continue to play a tired player

 

if Sam was too tired to play then king/Sam 1st choice and zanatta sub/back up/odd game could have occurred

 

instead a tired player wheeled-out week after week with the odd respite if zanatta steps in

 

doesn't jump out as great planning

 

for what it's worth I think the problem is that rather than tiredness being the fundamental issue with Sam it's more that's he's not really that great - sometimes he plays quite well sometimes he doesn't - in not convinced he'll consistently play above the level he is now

 

if he really was tired surely questions can be asked of robbie? surely questions can be asked? if like almost all human beings Sam is just looking for a neat retrospective excuse for things not going well then maybe it's not so clear cut - maybe it isn't robbies fault (this time)

It is not always the managers choice though. Players hold a lot of the cards. What we are unable to gauge also, is how the camp was at the time, or how a particular player was feeling. It is fair to say Sam went off the boil just after the window, it is not an exact science.

 

Crystal ball would be handy right enough

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

It is not always the managers choice though. Players hold a lot of the cards. What we are unable to gauge also, is how the camp was at the time, or how a particular player was feeling. It is fair to say Sam went off the boil just after the window, it is not an exact science.

 

Crystal ball would be handy right enough

agreed it's not an exact science and I don't expect Robbie to get everything right, absolutely far from it, but it's hardly crystal ball stuff that a young flair player will get tired/ go off the ball and might need taken out the team - it could be argued that the same happened to Sam in the championship and he was in fact taken out the team for an extended period

 

anyway just questions being asked and musings - not saying it's definitely robbies fault or that he must see the future or get everything right - my expectation of Robbie is way way lower than that

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

agreed it's not an exact science and I don't expect Robbie to get everything right, absolutely far from it, but it's hardly crystal ball stuff that a young flair player will get tired/ go off the ball and might need taken out the team - it could be argued that the same happened to Sam in the championship and he was in fact taken out the team for an extended period

 

anyway just questions being asked and musings - not saying it's definitely robbies fault or that he must see the future or get everything right - my expectation of Robbie is way way lower than that

I suppose my point in all of this, it is easy to pick holes afterwards. I think Mothy described it well early in the thread

[southcap]

Wasn't there an interview, with Henry I think, where he claimed you could only get 3 seasons on the trot out of a player before they blow cold for a year? That the human body just isn't capable of that sort of sustained effort for any longer than about 3 seasons? Maybe it was just his opinion rather than based on any kind of hard evidence mind you.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Wasn't there an interview, with Henry I think, where he claimed you could only get 3 seasons on the trot out of a player before they blow cold for a year? That the human body just isn't capable of that sort of sustained effort for any longer than about 3 seasons? Maybe it was just his opinion rather than based on any kind of hard evidence mind you.

I can believe that. Maybe even shorter in the modern era.

 

Prime reason I believe that no club has defended the Champions League, fatigue catches up

[gowestjambo]

So Sam was tired? Maybe he could have gone to bed earlier in that case. What a pathetic excuse for playing crap and not beating full backs!

 

Maybe he should try a real job where he is expected to put a shift in like the rest of us!

 

What a cringeworthy excuse from an obviously pandered individual.

[maroonnicky63]

tired...pish , he's a young guy

there you go there is always one '' thick as shit'' no understanding at all

[maroonnicky63]

So Sam was tired? Maybe he could have gone to bed earlier in that case. What a pathetic excuse for playing crap and not beating full backs!

 

Maybe he should try a real job where he is expected to put a shift in like the rest of us!

 

What a cringeworthy excuse from an obviously pandered individual.

lost for words on this one , ogh no I'm not ''idiot'' there you are found one

[southcap]

So Sam was tired? Maybe he could have gone to bed earlier in that case. What a pathetic excuse for playing crap and not beating full backs!

 

Maybe he should try a real job where he is expected to put a shift in like the rest of us!

 

What a cringeworthy excuse from an obviously pandered individual.

 

Do you put 100% solid effort into every shift you do that is physical?

 

If so, don't bother saving for your retirement, you probably won't even see 60.

[maroonnicky63]

Do you put 100% solid effort into every shift you do that is physical?

 

If so, don't bother saving for your retirement, you probably won't even see 60.

Spot on mate I just don't get fans like this at all they have no clue like it or not players can get burnt out and not only young players like Nicholson , no matter how he played late on last season his work rate was still  top notch

[southcap]

Spot on mate I just don't get fans like this at all they have no clue like it or not players can get burnt out and not only young players like Nicholson , no matter how he played late on last season his work rate was still  top notch

 

There is a reason very few players can continue playing at a high level after 35. Their bodies have been utterly abused by that point. I mean, just look at this stat;

 

 

XPRO estimate that 80% of retired players will suffer from osteoarthritis, a degenerative joint disease that will typically affect 10% of males over 60 in the general population.

That is a gigantic red flag that players are absolutely abusing their bodies physically.

[southcap]

Then you have this.....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/triathlon/37402716

 

I mean, surely an elite athlete body wouldn't get drained? Surely not?

and....

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/rio-2016-proud-andy-murray-admits-to-emotionally-and-physically-draining-olympics-experience-a7192361.html

 

Surely not? Another elite level athlete saying he is physically drained? Shocking, should do a shift labouring down a construction site and see if he complains about being tired then.