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joseywales

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I like jeremy corbyn but i think that if he gets re elected as labour leader then labour could be out of power for a generation. I do like corbyn's old fashioned values but without Scotland and middle England there is no chance of anything changing.

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I like jeremy corbyn but i think that if he gets re elected as labour leader then labour could be out of power for a generation. I do like corbyn's old fashioned values but without Scotland and middle England there is no chance of anything changing.

Tooweak, too left, no good.

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  • 3 weeks later...
HaymarketJambo

I like jeremy corbyn but i think that if he gets re elected as labour leader then labour could be out of power for a generation. I do like corbyn's old fashioned values but without Scotland and middle England there is no chance of anything changing.

 

I don't think Corbyn (Labour) will get Scotland back from the SNP. 

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I like jeremy corbyn but i think that if he gets re elected as labour leader then labour could be out of power for a generation. I do like corbyn's old fashioned values but without Scotland and middle England there is no chance of anything changing.

I kinda agree. I do find a few of his policies are too much like "old" Labour which will prevent me from voting in any future election.

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Francis Albert

Huge mandate from the party, time for the "centrists" to like it or lump it.

 

Dugdale in a bit of a pickle!

The only mandate that matters is from the voters.

Being wildly popular with a bunch of political nerds, weirdos and trotskyites means the square root of f all when it comes to actually achieving anything.

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Huge mandate from the party, time for the "centrists" to like it or lump it.

 

Dugdale in a bit of a pickle!

True to an extent. The extent being Corbyn has to massively up his game. He's lead Labour to top the polls 3 times since he was first elected leader. He's personally unpopular, lowest in "socialist" Scotland included. His Shadow Chancellor is a huge liability. Repeatedly weak at PMQs with a couple of exceptions: grammar schools.

 

He too must up his game. If in 2018 the party is no further forward don't be surprised if the unioms move against him.

 

For the time being unity and taking the fight to a weak and still divided Tory party is a must: grammar schools, Brexit and boundary reform are all there to be attacked with unity of purpose. He needs to pick a broad shadow cabinet and bring the PLP on board as far as he can. They too must respect his mandate and back him on policy (unless there's no provision or its a conscience issue).

 

Dugdale has to row back too. But in turn he has to let the autonomy plans through for Scottish and Welsh Labour.

 

I fear he won't listen to his better angels and will let McDonnell continue to open rifts where they aren't needed or wanted.

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True to an extent. The extent being Corbyn has to massively up his game. He's lead Labour to top the polls 3 times since he was first elected leader. He's personally unpopular, lowest in "socialist" Scotland included. His Shadow Chancellor is a huge liability. Repeatedly weak at PMQs with a couple of exceptions: grammar schools.

 

He too must up his game. If in 2018 the party is no further forward don't be surprised if the unioms move against him.

 

For the time being unity and taking the fight to a weak and still divided Tory party is a must: grammar schools, Brexit and boundary reform are all there to be attacked with unity of purpose. He needs to pick a broad shadow cabinet and bring the PLP on board as far as he can. They too must respect his mandate and back him on policy (unless there's no provision or its a conscience issue).

 

Dugdale has to row back too. But in turn he has to let the autonomy plans through for Scottish and Welsh Labour.

 

I fear he won't listen to his better angels and will let McDonnell continue to open rifts where they aren't needed or wanted.

 

I don't disagree that Corbyn needs to up his game, but the petulance from the PLP has to stop.

 

Dugdale seems rather out of her depth, tbh.

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I don't disagree that Corbyn needs to up his game, but the petulance from the PLP has to stop.

 

Dugdale seems rather out of her depth, tbh.

Leader needs to bring it together.

 

Leader in love with membership and vis versa. MPs say they want to align more with voters.

 

Pretty unique problem.

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Leader needs to bring it together.

 

Leader in love with membership and vis versa. MPs say they want to align more with voters.

 

Pretty unique problem.

 

Or Leader needs to win voters over?

 

The Tories are there for the taking, imo.

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He hates tories and the far right , good man. :2thumbsup:

 

All the red tories in the Labour party are shoiting it now.. :toff:

 

A man like him had to emerge in this ongoing climate of Tory austerity and poor bashing.

 

Just surprised that a lot of folk did not see him coming.

 

Treat people like shiot for long enough and men like him emerge. :sunny:

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I don't disagree that Corbyn needs to up his game, but the petulance from the PLP has to stop.

 

Dugdale seems rather out of her depth, tbh.

It isn't petulance - they can see that they wont win.

In an effort to win the left, Corbyn has lost the middle

defence- epically out of touch

education- like it or not he could PROBABLY manage to lose the charitable status of private schools if we (the middle classes) could access Grammar schools

Increase public borrowing- everyone else is doing it so why not

Re-nationalisation of some stuff?

Maybe, maybe not

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I don't disagree that Corbyn needs to up his game, but the petulance from the PLP has to stop.

 

If he ups his game that won't be a problem. If he takes the fight to the Tories the PLP will have no option but to help. If he doesn't then the saga continues. He needs to engage with the party and the media toget his narrative out there.

 

No one wants any leader of the party to do badly but he needs to really do better. Speaking to momentum rallies will do no good. He needs to win the public, and yes that means the middle class of England, but also Scotland and Wales. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

 

Sadly, polling suggests he's got two mountains to climb.

 

Dugdale seems rather out of her depth, tbh.

Should never have openly backed a candidate. Absolutely mental to do so and opened her up to a very difficult post-conference period. If it weren't for the Smith win in Scotland she'd be on shakier ground. If Momentum pick up members in Scotland (which they've struggled to do) then she could be facing bother.

 

However, the autonomy win is massive. Huge. Never again will we see a situation like that in Falkirk with no clear leadership in Scotland. Now there's guaranteed policy independence. Good things won.

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A man who has voted against his own party 533 times makes an appeal for unity !! He is a first rate hypocrite.

coz the other lot are a picture of togetherness and co-operation? :rofl:

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coz the other lot are a picture of togetherness and co-operation? :rofl:

To be fair, I'd say the likes of Neil Kinnock, Lisa Nandy, Hilary Benn and Tom Watson have all backed the party leadership of the day more than Corbyn ever did.

 

It is however, simply the case that the eternal rebel will always struggle to get the full support of his colleagues.

 

Equally, it's hard to win the loyalty of people when you change their speeches at conference minutes before going on stage, as happened to Shadow Defence Minister Clive Lewis.

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coz the other lot are a picture of togetherness and co-operation? :rofl:

 

To be fair, I'd say the likes of Neil Kinnock, Lisa Nandy, Hilary Benn and Tom Watson have all backed the party leadership of the day more than Corbyn ever did.

 

It is however, simply the case that the eternal rebel will always struggle to get the full support of his colleagues.

 

Equally, it's hard to win the loyalty of people when you change their speeches at conference minutes before going on stage, as happened to Shadow Defence Minister Clive Lewis.

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Trapper John McIntyre

coz the other lot are a picture of togetherness and co-operation? :rofl:

 

Is there anything or anyone you like?

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I love rich socialists, you'd think its a parody but it's not.

Rich socialists used to be poor socialists, what does his success in his field have to do with it?

 

"When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality."

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Rich socialists used to be poor socialists, what does his success in his field have to do with it?

 

"When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality."

"The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" - one of the only decent things that Thatcher every said.

 

How has he divided his wealth along egalitarian terms? You're not going to tell me he hasn't surely?

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"The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money" - one of the only decent things that Thatcher every said.

 

How has he divided his wealth along egalitarian terms? You're not going to tell me he hasn't surely?

None of that means he can't hold socialist views.

 

He's made money, I have literally no idea what he's done with it, but that has zero to do with how valid his points or opinions may be, of course.

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Diadora Van Basten

Labour had a shock when they lost the election to the coalition.

 

The response to that shock was to move to their comfort zone by picking Ed as leader instead of his brother.

 

When Ed inevitably lost they were again surprised as they did not reach out beyond their core support and genuinely thought that the electorate and their core support thought along similar lines.

 

For some reason rather than looking to make the party more acceptable to the electorate they chose the protest vote of Jeremy Corbyn which will lead to oblivion in the next election.  

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None of that means he can't hold socialist views.

 

He's made money, I have literally no idea what he's done with it, but that has zero to do with how valid his points or opinions may be, of course.

The difficulty is that when you take a socialist re-distributive stand point politically- as many famous people do- many with less than them wonder why their more modest means should be redistributed, when the "rich luvvies" could lead the way and distribute their own wealth FIRST.

They demand tax hikes on the middle classes, which would hurt teachers/ police and so on far more than themselves- who could still afford their second homes and so on.

It is probably a misconception though- as Im sure that what the Sheens, Bonnos etc are advocating is surely not reducing everyone to the same level, but that is how it appears sometimes

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The difficulty is that when you take a socialist re-distributive stand point politically- as many famous people do- many with less than them wonder why their more modest means should be redistributed, when the "rich luvvies" could lead the way and distribute their own wealth FIRST.

They demand tax hikes on the middle classes, which would hurt teachers/ police and so on far more than themselves- who could still afford their second homes and so on.

It is probably a misconception though- as Im sure that what the Sheens, Bonnos etc are advocating is surely not reducing everyone to the same level, but that is how it appears sometimes

That's sound but the quote I replied to said "I love rich socialists, you'd think its a parody but it's not" in response to Loach supporting Corbyn.

 

Again, his success as a film maker doesn't and shouldn't negate his opinion, only a strong counter argument can. If the poster wants to debate his position then fine, but he got as far as playing the man not the ball, and I'm just pointing that out.

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That's sound but the quote I replied to said "I love rich socialists, you'd think its a parody but it's not" in response to Loach supporting Corbyn.

 

Again, his success as a film maker doesn't and shouldn't negate his opinion, only a strong counter argument can. If the poster wants to debate his position then fine, but he got as far as playing the man not the ball, and I'm just pointing that out.

That's fine. I have no problem with rich socialists, any more than I have rich anything frankly.

Part of the problem that Labour has is that Marxist Socialism accepted that it was for the working class.

Corbyn would appear to be for the lumpen proletariat.

Momentum are all for the takers,

but you cannot win an election without the givers

most working class are now "givers" who lose large chunks of their income in return for diminishing returns.

Labour are far more likely to lose these folks to a Conservative Govt, than Corbyn to win tax payers over to Labour

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Forget the fact that Corbyn may be a 'nice guy'..actions speak louder than words

 

He's a two faced hypocrite who has spent his life voting against the policies of his party yet feels he is entitled to be re-elected by his local party time after time to stand in his own seat.

However when he knows his followers will deselect anyone who dares stand against him as they have been infiltrated by the hard left he will not do a thing.

He tells us it's all about democracy yet when his own party's policy is in favour of renewing the UK's nuclear weapons he will work against it

 

If he had genuine feeling 'for the good for the British people' he would resign and admit he will never win an election and indeed when he loses he may not lead what we know/recognise as the Labour party.

He'll be known as the man who caused the party to divide and quite possibly the man who was leader when (in modern times) the worst result in UK election history was seen to befall the Labour party

 

Self interest of a few,... those principled activists who have the time to turn up to local meetings, has become more important than the wishes of the voting public.

 

The Labour party had the cheek to moan about Blair but since he left the party activists have sought power with a vengence and slowly but surely by cutting back MP voting, intoducing votes through the unions and the membership drive has led to the tail wagging the dog....Voting the wrong brother in was a major part of the start of this slide.

 

Another 2 elections at least will once more see Labour out of power for 20 years or more and those in the party will this time refuse to face the truth even if the voters show them their views are not those of the country....I'd love to think people will face reality but hard left activists will ignore the truth even when it hits them in the face.

 

PS there is one hope...people should join the Labour party in Corbyns ward and deselect him before the next election

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The crucial, in electoral terms, chunk of middle England-shire will maybe at a stretch , a big stretch vote for a Glossy Blair type Labour character..

However the chance of Corbyn EVER getting their vote is absolute absolute absolute ZERO.

 

The party WILL split.

 

.

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Francis Albert

Just heard Corbyn interviewed on the BBC news. Asked about controls on immigration from EU countries his response was that he would press for equalisation of wages across Europe. Presumably this did not mean reducing UK wages but raising wages in Spain, Portugal Greece. Poland, Rumania etc to UK or maybe German levels.

 

A fantasist of the first order.

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maroonlegions

Just heard Corbyn interviewed on the BBC news. Asked about controls on immigration from EU countries his response was that he would press for equalisation of wages across Europe. Presumably this did not mean reducing UK wages but raising wages in Spain, Portugal Greece. Poland, Rumania etc to UK or maybe German levels.

 

A fantasist of the first order.

 

 

14449785_1319597228053289_29542809560521

 

 

 

 

 

 

If any Tory actually believes that Teresa May gives a flying feck about the poor , less well off or those in poverty then they are a fantasist of the first order .

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http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/10/jeremy-corbyn-reshuffles-shadow-cabinet-live

 

For those interested in the reshuffle.

 

Abbott to Shadow Home Secretary and Shami Chakribati to Shadow Attorney General.

 

Both great moves for those opposed to the anti-immigration rhetoric and the repeal of HRA. Equally impressed with the appointment of Nick Brown as the Chief Whip. Right of the party, coup buster and Brown's chief whip... also anti-Trident.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/10/jeremy-corbyn-reshuffles-shadow-cabinet-live

 

For those interested in the reshuffle.

 

Abbott to Shadow Home Secretary and Shami Chakribati to Shadow Attorney General.

 

Both great moves for those opposed to the anti-immigration rhetoric and the repeal of HRA. Equally impressed with the appointment of Nick Brown as the Chief Whip. Right of the party, coup buster and Brown's chief whip... also anti-Trident.

Let'a get it right - Dianne Abbott is a joke with no principles, other than to kiss the arse of whoever's feathering her nest. Imagine having a Home Secretary whose answer to all criticism is "you're a racist."

 

Chakribati - seems to be a Corbyn yes man, as the anti Semitic investigation proved.

 

Kier Starmer is a good person to have on board though.

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  • 7 months later...
Maroon Sailor

Corbyn saying he will stay as leader even if he gets decimated in the forthcoming GE

 

What would be the point ?

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Space Mackerel

Corbyn saying he will stay as leader even if he gets decimated in the forthcoming GE

 

What would be the point ?

Could say the same about Ruth or Kezia up here.

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Corbyn saying he will stay as leader even if he gets decimated in the forthcoming GE

 

What would be the point ?

To use the rump of Labour as phyrric last victory for his vision of a protest movement.

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Jambo-Jimbo

Could say the same about Ruth or Kezia up here.

 

Not really, neither of them have any expectation to win, even if the SNP managed to hold on to their 56 seats it wouldn't be seen as a defeat for the Tories or Labour, if on the other hand either took seats from the SNP then that's a victory for them.

 

If Corbyn lost anything up to 100 seats to the Tories then I don't see how he could stay on.

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Fact he held the EU referendum suggests otherwise.

Wasn't that in their manifesto? Same argument the Nats have about indyref2?

 

As for Corbyn he and the labour party have to wake up and listen to the electorate. The issues that are driving them away from Labour in traditional heartlands and being ignored. Britain is a different place these days to those when Labour could claim to be the voice of the common man.

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Jambo-Jimbo

Wasn't that in their manifesto? Same argument the Nats have about indyref2?

 

As for Corbyn he and the labour party have to wake up and listen to the electorate. The issues that are driving them away from Labour in traditional heartlands and being ignored. Britain is a different place these days to those when Labour could claim to be the voice of the common man.

 

When I see and hear what Corbyn and his inner circle are saying it's like a throw back to the 70's, maybe it's just me but that's how they come across IMO.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Let'a get it right - Dianne Abbott is a joke with no principles, other than to kiss the arse of whoever's feathering her nest. Imagine having a Home Secretary whose answer to all criticism is "you're a racist."

 

Chakribati - seems to be a Corbyn yes man, as the anti Semitic investigation proved.

 

Kier Starmer is a good person to have on board though.

 

Word.

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doctor jambo

Wasn't that in their manifesto? Same argument the Nats have about indyref2?

 

As for Corbyn he and the labour party have to wake up and listen to the electorate. The issues that are driving them away from Labour in traditional heartlands and being ignored. Britain is a different place these days to those when Labour could claim to be the voice of the common man.

The days he is harking back to never existed in the first place

The working poor rammed into poor housing, terrible facilities, outside loos, many kids to one room- they lived in slums

Now Corbyn is trying to attract the votes of people who have 3 bedroom semi's , cars and a wee foreign jaunt once a year and a bedroom for each kid

Its a different type of poor

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