Brexit?

[Space Mackerel]

So you lose others benefit.

[Francis Albert]

EU getting worried about the

loss of access to the City and talking of a special deal for them to secure access to the major source of countries' debt financing and industry financing

Still no cherry picking for the UK though!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

EU getting worried about the

loss of access to the City and talking of a special deal for them to secure access to the major source of countries' debt financing and industry financing

Still no cherry picking for the UK though!

One of the reasons why "the sky is falling" hyperbole from Remainers is pathetic.

 

After all this hard nosed bullshit there will be a free trade deal and a fudge on freedom of movement. Mutual interest and money will always win.

[Francis Albert]

One of the reasons why "the sky is falling" hyperbole from Remainers is pathetic.

 

After all this hard nosed bullshit there will be a free trade deal and a fudge on freedom of movement. Mutual interest and money will always win.

Yes I thought it an interesting antidote to all the Remainers line that we just have to take whatever the EU decrees - take it or leave it. The UK holds cards too and will have more once other lobbyists in Europe get more involved (to the extent they are not already, behind the scenes). Our economy is also currently a bit stronger than that of most of the other side of the table and more able to stand adverse outcomes. Of course if the UK accedes to the Remainers insistence that we set out publicly our detailed negotiating plan with bottom lines then our hand will be greatly, possibly fatally weakened.

 

To its credit the arch Remainer the Guardian ran this as their lead story. The BBC hasn't so far deemed it worthy of mention on its web site as far as I can see.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

One of the reasons why "the sky is falling" hyperbole from Remainers is pathetic.

 

After all this hard nosed bullshit there will be a free trade deal and a fudge on freedom of movement. Mutual interest and money will always win.

 

Within days of the result of the vote, German business leaders were pleading with Merkel not to impose trade tariffs against the UK, not because they were worried about the German public having to pay more for British goods, no they were worried that the UK would respond in kind and therefore make German products less attractive to the UK market and this would hurt German manufacturing and jobs.

 

In or out of the EU or even the single market, the EU will still want to sell it's products to the UK, this is why the EU & the UK will come to deal with suits both parties. 

 

Politicians will do what business leaders say and this is why your last sentence is bang on the money.

 

[AlphonseCapone]

EU getting worried about the

loss of access to the City and talking of a special deal for them to secure access to the major source of countries' debt financing and industry financing

Still no cherry picking for the UK though!

Special arrangements for specific areas? The SNP will be delighted to hear it.

[Francis Albert]

Special arrangements for specific areas? The SNP will be delighted to hear it.

not for a specific geographical area. The City just means the UK financial services sector largely but by no means exclusively based in London let alone the square mile of the City. Don't get Space Mackeral's hopes up!

[Yoda]

Within days of the result of the vote, German business leaders were pleading with Merkel not to impose trade tariffs against the UK, not because they were worried about the German public having to pay more for British goods, no they were worried that the UK would respond in kind and therefore make German products less attractive to the UK market and this would hurt German manufacturing and jobs.

 

In or out of the EU or even the single market, the EU will still want to sell it's products to the UK, this is why the EU & the UK will come to deal with suits both parties. 

 

Politicians will do what business leaders say and this is why your last sentence is bang on the money.

Spot on.  The Remoaners will be vanishing into thin air once it becomes clear that a good deal will be agreed for both sides.

[The Comedian]

Which is kind of my point regards the blind alleys the SNP are going down.

 

 

But as a sovereign, independent nation it can make that choice.  

 

I don't buy wholly into the EU = not a sovereign state anymore.

 

BUt we can agree to differ on that.

 

I'd expect a probable SNP government in a Indy Scotland wouldn't give it a choice, not that it will matter as we won't be Independent.

 

Personally I'd be unhappy at the idea of gaining our own independence then rushing to hand powers to Brussels as soon as possible. I guess as long as the English aren't involved that's okay, though. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Spot on.  The Remoaners will be vanishing into thin air once it becomes clear that a good deal will be agreed for both sides.

 

Makes no difference what kind of deal is thrashed out, there will still be some who will not be pleased with it as it'll still not being good enough, but hay ho such is life.

 

[Boris]

I'd expect a probable SNP government in a Indy Scotland wouldn't give it a choice, not that it will matter as we won't be Independent.

 

Personally I'd be unhappy at the idea of gaining our own independence then rushing to hand powers to Brussels as soon as possible. I guess as long as the English aren't involved that's okay, though.

 

Again, IMO, I disagree that being an EU member somehow means you are not an independent sovereign state.

 

Hand powers to Brussels? Such as?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The 'Remoaners' moaned like feck because there was no plan.

 

The PM is set to announce that she is prepared to take the UK out of the single market and the customs union.

 

And now the 'Remoaners' are moaning like feck because there is a plan.

 

Nobody should be surprised that the UK is prepared to come out of the single market & the customs union, after all the PM has already said 'Brexit means Brexit'.

[aussieh]

What also astounds me is the hypocrisy of those seeking a second referendum in this country.

The question is simple yes for independence .

Imagine we had voted independent and 80 luvvies appeared in the record asking Theresa May to ignore the result.

 

Yet those 67% of snp members and their leader want the government to do exactly that.

 

As for the Guardian .

Well it prints lies and scaremongering on a daily basis.

 

The reporting by them and the bbc on the Syrian conflict has been riddled with falshoods.

A respected canadian journalist Eva Bartlett has publicly accused them of it as has Syrian people of Allepo.

 

Im not providing links its easy to find.

Msm has agendas .

One of them is brexit.

One of them is Syria.

 

And if we examine the reporting of the Scottish referendum there has been studies to show the editing of news broadcasts against the snp(who i have no time for).

 

One of the more infamous ones was during first minister questions.

 

The Guardian is the sun for luvvies.

It's called tactics, not hypocrisy. Vote remain trigger a second indyref.

What's Syria have to do with brexit, oh right refugees.

[aussieh]

The 'Remoaners' moaned like feck because there was no plan.

 

The PM is set to announce that she is prepared to take the UK out of the single market and the customs union.

 

And now the 'Remoaners' are moaning like feck because there is a plan.

 

Nobody should be surprised that the UK is prepared to come out of the single market & the customs union, after all the PM has already said 'Brexit means Brexit'.

And sexit will mean sexit, no more freedom of movement for Brits in Scotland Cannae wait to extinguish all ties with this shite.

[jake]

It's called tactics, not hypocrisy. Vote remain trigger a second indyref.

What's Syria have to do with brexit, oh right refugees.

 

Not refugees aussie but misleading news.

 

But you bash on implying im racist.

[JamboX2]

Again, IMO, I disagree that being an EU member somehow means you are not an independent sovereign state.

 

Hand powers to Brussels? Such as?

There are areas where governments do cede sovereignty to the EU and are limited in what they can do via state aid etc through EU procurement and competition laws. So I suppose there's that. You can't do certsin things which breach the social chapter or affect the 4 freedoms.

 

So you do lose control over certain aspects.

 

However, I think unions are good things and don't oppose such limitations for the functioning of a Union - be it UK or EU. That afterall is the price of membership.

[Boris]

There are areas where governments do cede sovereignty to the EU and are limited in what they can do via state aid etc through EU procurement and competition laws. So I suppose there's that. You can't do certsin things which breach the social chapter or affect the 4 freedoms.

So you do lose control over certain aspects.

However, I think unions are good things and don't oppose such limitations for the functioning of a Union - be it UK or EU. That afterall is the price of membership.

Equally your nation is represented at all levels of the decision making process, not to mention veto options.

 

The whole "diktat from Brussels" line is way off the mark, IMO. Not that you said that, just my overall thought.

[aussieh]

Not refugees aussie but misleading news.

 

But you bash on implying im racist.

Hypocrite

[JamboX2]

Equally your nation is represented at all levels of the decision making process, not to mention veto options.

 

The whole "diktat from Brussels" line is way off the mark, IMO. Not that you said that, just my overall thought.

Unless you lose out in a vote at the Council.

 

I'm pro-EU but it needs to loosen the reigns when there are issues around growing inequality and economic stagnation in some of its members. Equally, it shoukd be doing more on corporate tax avoidance.

 

I'm pro-EU. But I'd argue it's nor right to claim you don't cede powers or sovereignty by joining it. Germany can't draw up a free trade deal with Paraguay on it's own for example. Norway can. These are consequences of joining. An indy Scotland would get certain EU advantages bu joining but it couldn't act unilaterally in certain matters: trade, competition, fisheries or agriculture for example. It's a trade off. You get advantages but give some things up in order to be a member.

[aussieh]

Unless you lose out in a vote at the Council.

 

I'm pro-EU but it needs to loosen the reigns when there are issues around growing inequality and economic stagnation in some of its members. Equally, it shoukd be doing more on corporate tax avoidance.

 

I'm pro-EU. But I'd argue it's nor right to claim you don't cede powers or sovereignty by joining it. Germany can't draw up a free trade deal with Paraguay on it's own for example. Norway can. These are consequences of joining. An indy Scotland would get certain EU advantages bu joining but it couldn't act unilaterally in certain matters: trade, competition, fisheries or agriculture for example. It's a trade off. You get advantages but give some things up in order to be a member.

Scotland seems to love giving things away, so why not join the EU? Right I know, they don't rule us. England come on down, build yourself up on the backs of Scotland, Wales and NIre.

[zoltan socrates]

Scotland seems to love giving things away, so why not join the EU? Right I know, they don't rule us. England come on down, build yourself up on the backs of Scotland, Wales and NIre.

Victim mentality, utterly teenage

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Unless you lose out in a vote at the Council.

 

I'm pro-EU but it needs to loosen the reigns when there are issues around growing inequality and economic stagnation in some of its members. Equally, it shoukd be doing more on corporate tax avoidance.

 

I'm pro-EU. But I'd argue it's nor right to claim you don't cede powers or sovereignty by joining it. Germany can't draw up a free trade deal with Paraguay on it's own for example. Norway can. These are consequences of joining. An indy Scotland would get certain EU advantages bu joining but it couldn't act unilaterally in certain matters: trade, competition, fisheries or agriculture for example. It's a trade off. You get advantages but give some things up in order to be a member.

 

I think it's more the Eurozone which has the worse economic stagnation rather than the EU as a whole.

 

As for tackling Corporate Tax Avoidance, never going to happen, well not as long as Juncker is in charge, as he spend close on 20 years as Luxembourg PM doing everything he could to obstruct and generally just ignore any attempts by the EU to clamp down on Corporate Tax Avoidance.

 

 

 

 

[Australis]

Interesting the Sunday papers saying May will announce a hard Brexit over the next few days.

Certainly puts the ball in Sturgeons court again if it is a hard Brexit.

 

Are we about to get more noise,greeting and threats from her but ignored like a naughty child again.

[jake]

Equally your nation is represented at all levels of the decision making process, not to mention veto options.

 

The whole "diktat from Brussels" line is way off the mark, IMO. Not that you said that, just my overall thought.

 

In that case wouldnt Scotland best be served independently at the world table as a part of NATO.

World trade etc.

As norway is for example.

The EU is nothing more than a middle man concerning trade as it must also adhere to international trade laws and standards.

[jake]

Hypocrite

 

Eh?

 

Please feel free to explain that one.

[jake]

Interesting the Sunday papers saying May will announce a hard Brexit over the next few days.

Certainly puts the ball in Sturgeons court again if it is a hard Brexit.

 

Are we about to get more noise,greeting and threats from her but ignored like a naughty child again.

 

 

Its the only thing to do.

The smart money is looking at the EU financial collapse.

Tough times ahead for the continent.

 

All my opinion of course.

 

As for its effect on Scottish politics the success of this hopefully galvanises support for independence.

[JamboX2]

In that case wouldnt Scotland best be served independently at the world table as a part of NATO.

World trade etc.

As norway is for example.

The EU is nothing more than a middle man concerning trade as it must also adhere to international trade laws and standards.

Historically, and to some today, the SNP would have agreed with your view. Be independent of the UK and EU be in EFTA, WTO, UN, OECD, Commonwealth etc. But now the idea for the party mainstream is 'independence in Europe'.

 

I don't necessarily think there are major issues with both. I believe being in a club and shaping the rules through direct political engagement rather than out and being subject to them in some cases and others not, with no power or say on what the rules are is better. But, if we are to be independent then I do think a new nation should get the consent of it's people on what relationships it holds seperate of the vote on whether or not to be independent.

[aussieh]

Eh?

 

Please feel free to explain that one.

You're no racist, but we're all xenophobic. Oh and you don't half believe what you want yet dismiss anything the rest of the lads tell you on here, but we better damn believe you or you'll post it on every thread.

[jake]

You're no racist, but we're all xenophobic. Oh and you don't half believe what you want yet dismiss anything the rest of the lads tell you on here, but we better damn believe you or you'll post it on every thread.

 

Lol

[aussieh]

[Space Mackerel]

Thought Maggie May was doing a speech today? Did she shite out of it?

I was looking forward to the ? plummeting as I'm off to Spain in May too.

[Cade]

PM to confirm an "off the cliff" Brexit.

 

No trade deals, no single market, immigration clampdown and an exit from the European Court of Justice.

 

All aboard the crazy train, next stop: the 19th century!

[Bazzas right boot]

I'm pro indey and voted remain.

 

I'm much less enthusiast about the Eu than I am independence, however I would never believe or follow Borris and Nigel about anything. The are clueless.

 

Unfortunately, they won, and whatever way you voted, it's quite clear the government hasn't got a clue and all promise's made by Nigel and Borris where horse.

 

It might be a good thing , but under the current leadership it's a big mess and looks like the ordinary punter will be worse off. Surprise.

[Bazzas right boot]

PM to confirm an "off the cliff" Brexit.

 

No trade deals, no single market, immigration clampdown and an exit from the European Court of Justice.

 

All aboard the crazy train, next stop: the 19th century!

Scary, but true.

[Space Mackerel]

PM to confirm an "off the cliff" Brexit.

 

No trade deals, no single market, immigration clampdown and an exit from the European Court of Justice.

 

All aboard the crazy train, next stop: the 19th century!

Yipppppeeeee! Full on English Nationalism. Hing out the bunting!

[JamboX2]

Nick Clegg called for EFTA membership today. We created the organisation in 1960 - Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland are members.

 

Would allow Single Market access, out with the customs union, no CAP or CFP, no ECJ. Would also allow a degree of immigration control. Hopefully, Theresa Maybe considers it. It's the half-way house we're crying out for.

[JamboX2]

PM to confirm an "off the cliff" Brexit.

 

No trade deals, no single market, immigration clampdown and an exit from the European Court of Justice.

 

All aboard the crazy train, next stop: the 19th century!

Part of me thinks this is the Phoney War. A lot of white noise. The Dutch call for UK to tackle tax avoidance. Hammond says he'll slash business taxes. The Germans say no free movement, no market. May refuses to guarantee EU citizen residency.

 

Reckon we'll end up in an EFTA (Norway) type deal in the end.

 

If the pound continues to fall and the economy looks perilous you can guarantee they'll not jump off the cliff.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Part of me thinks this is the Phoney War. A lot of white noise. The Dutch call for UK to tackle tax avoidance. Hammond says he'll slash business taxes. The Germans say no free movement, no market. May refuses to guarantee EU citizen residency.

 

Reckon we'll end up in an EFTA (Norway) type deal in the end.

 

If the pound continues to fall and the economy looks perilous you can guarantee they'll not jump off the cliff.

 

The IMF back in 2014 (long before the Brexit vote) were saying that the pound was being artificially kept high against the Dollar and was needing a readjustment.

City analysts said the same at the time and continue to still say it, indeed one was on the TV yesterday saying that the pound is still too high, he reckoned that the pound needs to fall to around $1.16 to find it's true parity with the Dollar. 

 

Personally I think it's a bit of a red herring worrying about the fall of the pound, especially since it's been kept too high for to long, and it was only a matter of time before it fell to it's true level.

Ok we have enjoyed lower prices for many products for several years now but that was never going to last long term, it never does.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Following on from May's speech today the ? is currently up around 2% on the Dollar and up around 1% on the Euro.

Will it last?  We'll have to wait and see.

However it would appear that the money markets aren't overly worried about today's announcement that the UK will not be in the single market.

 

Again the question of guaranteeing EU & UK citizens rights after Brexit came up.

Theresa May said once again and not for the first time, that the UK is ready and willing to guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in the UK as long as UK citizens rights living in the EU are also protected.

She added that most countries within the EU want this to happen and are willing to do so, however there are also a couple of countries who don't want to commit to this and therefore want to use people as a bargaining chip during the negotiations.

 

The UK IMO should just announce that the UK will guarantee EU citizens rights after Brexit and force the EU's hand on this, besides the UK is better than the 1 or 2 countries who want to use people as a bargaining chip.

 

 

[Cade]

And the UK is threatening to become a tax haven unless Maggie May gets what she wants.

 

Despicable.

[aussieh]

PM to confirm an "off the cliff" Brexit.

 

No trade deals, no single market, immigration clampdown and an exit from the European Court of Justice.

 

All aboard the crazy train, next stop: the 19th century!

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

 

Now mods get my indyref2018 thread reopened, please.

[Mikey1874]

I think Nicola Sturgeon might be backing herself and Yes into a corner over this with demands to be in the 'single market'.

 

The actual deal made over Brexit still could be really good. Free trade without unlimited immigration.

 

No guarantee Scots will somehow demand 'single market' when the alternative perhaps isn't much different in real terms.

[Cade]

I think Nicola Sturgeon might be backing herself and Yes into a corner over this with demands to be in the 'single market'.

 

The actual deal made over Brexit still could be really good. Free trade without unlimited immigration.

 

No guarantee Scots will somehow demand 'single market' when the alternative perhaps isn't much different in real terms.

Every single EU minister has repeatedly said that the 4 freedoms (goods, services, capital and people) are inseparable.

 

There is no such thing as free trade without unlimited immigration.

 

Even Norway and Canada have been bound by this.

[JamboX2]

Every single EU minister has repeatedly said that the 4 freedoms (goods, services, capital and people) are inseparable.

 

Only if you join EFTA or want to be in the EEA. If you want a seperate deal - like May does - that flies out the window.

 

There is no such thing as free trade without unlimited immigration.

 

Even Norway and Canada have been bound by this.

Not quite. Norway - yes as it's in EFTA. But EFTA nations can but restrictions in place - with justification.

 

I don't think Canada is subject to free movement with the EU though. Might be wrong.

[Boris]

Only if you join EFTA or want to be in the EEA. If you want a seperate deal - like May does - that flies out the window.

 

 

Not quite. Norway - yes as it's in EFTA. But EFTA nations can but restrictions in place - with justification.

 

I don't think Canada is subject to free movement with the EU though. Might be wrong.

Do you think the 27 EU States will allow UK single market access but allow no movement of people? That would end the eu!

 

Hammond s language at weekend was interesting. Used the word "forced" a lot. Only one forcing the govt are the British people. Framing it to blame the EU rather than simply the consequences of leaving a free trade agreement. IMO.

[Bazzas right boot]

Every single EU minister has repeatedly said that the 4 freedoms (goods, services, capital and people) are inseparable.

 

There is no such thing as free trade without unlimited immigration.

 

Even Norway and Canada have been bound by this.

We can't and folk are not getting this. Never have, this limit immigration, free market deal was pedaled out by dumb and dumber and folk never bothered to question it.

 

However, we can limit what the get, housing, benifit, NHS.etc when they get here.

 

Cameron had a decent handle on this and had a plan, by limiting the benifit system you indirectly control imagration.

 

I summarise, I want the snp to have a similar package, no benifits until you are working for a timescale and contributed.

[Space Mackerel]

Maggie May is absolutely deluded if she thinks she's going to get any of her wishes.

[jake]

Globalised trade laws are whats coming.

They are already adhered to by the EU.

 

Why cant you get your head round that.

And the EU is in no position to flex financial muscle.

 

I dont know what you all expected.

Brexit means brexit not EU light.

 

The EU is a financial basket case.

And its member states have some telling elections coming soon.

Good and clear message from the prime minister.

Reflected in the markets.

[JamboX2]

Do you think the 27 EU States will allow UK single market access but allow no movement of people? That would end the eu!

 

Hammond s language at weekend was interesting. Used the word "forced" a lot. Only one forcing the govt are the British people. Framing it to blame the EU rather than simply the consequences of leaving a free trade agreement. IMO.

I think a lot of that is based around making a show of force which will ultimately evaporate when they get down to business.

 

It's not single market access as we know it (Jim). It's access to aspects of the single market. So, ensuring automotive parts for our car factories are not hot by tariffs. That our financial and legal services retain their passport and (say) oil from the North Sea isn't hurt.

 

It's negotiating a free trade deal with the EU. NAFTA doesn't allow for free movement for market access. Nor does the EU-China deal. Nor Canada. For example, a Canadian still needs a visa for work and play in an EU nation. It's not "free" movement. That's the plan from what I can gather.

 

I agree with Nick Clegg - EFTA membership is the fudge we need and should aim for. Theresa Maybe wants a UK deal with the EU like Canada has. That may work, but it'll take more than 2 years to achieve.

[Australis]

Has Sturgeon called a 2nd referendum yet. Lots of noise, she knows everything with plenty of plans, and again no action.

It was a game of chess with Theresa May and Sturgeon was savaged after backing herself into a corner.

Liked when the reporter caught her coming out the building tonight and said "will you be calling an Indyref 2 now" and she ran away into the car without answering.

Bad reporter.

 

Can she at least tell us who the European leaders are that she met prostituting herself around Europe,  and if they are prepared to back her.

Theresa Mays wee dwarf bitch slapped around today like a wee rag doll.