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Greg Stewart


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And people not advocating sensible investment have no understanding of growth.

 

Again, there is a difference between controlled sensible spending and 'spunking' money on inflated transfer fees.

 

A good example of sensible investment would be Kenny McLean for ?300k.

A much better example of sensible investment is maintaining a good competitive squad while also putting money aside to pay for a stadium redevelopment which could secure our rude financial health for decades to come.

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Rangers seemingly were keen on Hemmings before Oxford did the deal. Hemmings doesn't move particularly gracefully. Looks like he carries a limp.

 

I've not seen much of Stewart tbh. In the 1-1 draw at Tynecastle last season he was imo the best player on the park by a distance.

 

I'm on the view that we should be looking to pay a fee in the right circumstances of c. ?300K to ?500K for the right player. The problem is that type of player in Scotland us likely to be coveted by teams who can offer far superior terms

 

There will be the odd Kenny McLean / John Souttar type deal to be done but they will be infrequent in Scotland out with OF

Hemming has a bad knee that will more than likely cause him to end his career earlier than he'd probably hope.
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People saying 'speculate to accumulate' presumably either too young or too stupid to remember us spunking the SMG money.

That was reckless stuff. We had a manager with an insatiable appetite for signing players who the CEO of the time was too scared to say no to and as such was bullied by that manager.

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The other thing about Stewart is that he's 26. Less sell-on potential than the likes of Kenny McLean or Souttar.

 

Not that selling on is the only way of recouping your investment, but I would guess that if we spend relatively big money, it'll be on someone younger.

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Gigolo-Aunt

If he has a clause in his contract in the the same fee bracket as Hemmings, we should defo be in for him as he is a player that would be a starter and greatly improve the squad as a whole.

 

200/300k spent wisely as in this case is well worth it.  The stand will still get built.

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Michael_Jackson

A much better example of sensible investment is maintaining a good competitive squad while also putting money aside to pay for a stadium redevelopment which could secure our rude financial health for decades to come.

Do you genuinely bellieve a difference of ?300k invested in a player who could potentially appease your customer base whilst potentially improving your core business activity and having a real oppertunity to provide the business a future profit would make us down tools on the new stand?

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scott herbertson

Do you genuinely bellieve a difference of ?300k invested in a player who could potentially appease your customer base whilst potentially improving your core business activity and having a real oppertunity to provide the business a future profit would make us down tools on the new stand?

 

 

Depends how much his wages are - eg Celtic 'invested' ?275K on Scott Allan but his wages (according to the press) are ?2million over four years. Not sure what wages Stewart might be offered by a English side, but probably not far off the wages Allan is on.

 

 

 

?2.275 million would make the new stand unachievable for a couple more years

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I doubt the fee for the "right" player is the issue.

Wages are the issue.

 

If you spend ?500k on a player then you have to give them "?500k player" wages which I'd guess is outwith our budget.

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Michael_Jackson

Depends how much his wages are - eg Celtic 'invested' ?275K on Scott Allan but his wages (according to the press) are ?2million over four years. Not sure what wages Stewart might be offered by a English side, but probably not far off the wages Allan is on.

 

 

 

?2.275 million would make the new stand unachievable for a couple more years

Again, operational expenditure will factor into any deal. It seems that some posters seem to suggest we shouldn't pay transfer fees. I disagree under the correct circumstances.

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fabienleclerq

Neilson has had money to spend and used it on Kenny Anderson and Gavin Reilly.

Don't think you can blame robbie for those two.

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

Do you genuinely bellieve a difference of ?300k invested in a player who could potentially appease your customer base whilst potentially improving your core business activity and having a real oppertunity to provide the business a future profit would make us down tools on the new stand?

As much as I would like a 300k player it would not appease me. We spent money on Reilly and Anderson we didn?t on Sow or Djoum if you get my drift
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scott herbertson

Again, operational expenditure will factor into any deal. It seems that some posters seem to suggest we shouldn't pay transfer fees. I disagree under the correct circumstances.

 

agreed - its just something people seem to forget about when comparing player costs.

 

FWIW I think we have got it pretty well right with when we paya  fee (releasing sought after players early, securing promising youngsters) though not in a couple of cases.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with a fee for someone like Stewart if the overall package is affordable

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I like Greg Stewart, decent player. Couple of Dundee fans I work with were saying ?500k to Birmingham is the strong rumour going around. Interestingly, Stewart and the cop beater McGowan were involved in an altercation with Dundee fans after Wednesday's defeat. Many Dundee fans not a big fan of Sir Paul and think that other than lucking out on picking up Hemmings and Stewart he's done not much else. Sound familiar? 

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We are completely renovating our stadium to the tune of a huge new stand, greater facilities and an improvement on what exists already... I mean seriously, do you not think we are doing a pretty good job of balancing the success of the first team and the building of the club's future?

 

300k is like 5% of the overall cost of the stadium works is it not? :unsure:

Irrelevant. We were told the stadium redevelopment would have no impact on the player budget. If it is having an impact (and I am not saying it is), then this would be a change of plan.
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Fort Vallance

I doubt the fee for the "right" player is the issue.

Wages are the issue.

 

If you spend ?500k on a player then you have to give them "?500k player" wages which I'd guess is outwith our budget.

In a nutshell.

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Michael_Jackson

Irrelevant. We were told the stadium redevelopment would have no impact on the player budget. If it is having an impact (and I am not saying it is), then this would be a change of plan.

I guess that depends on how low the player budget was in the first place.

 

If it has remained at the same level as last season despite an increase in turnover then perhaps the statement was somewhat disingenuous.

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I guess that depends on how low the player budget was in the first place.

 

If it has remained at the same level as last season despite an increase in turnover then perhaps the statement was somewhat disingenuous.

I suspect it probably is low, or not high enough for Stewart's transfer fee and wages. If so, the stadium redevelopment is not the reason, if that statement is to be believed, unless of course the stadium finance plans have changed.
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Michael_Jackson

People are aware that good players on free transfers often have higher salary demands than when a transfer fee is paid? Agents are aware unattached good players are a very desirable prospect for clubs.

 

You only really pick up the bargains once clubs that are able/willing to spend have their pick of players.

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We'll pay wages similar to the English Championship? How big is the new stand 50,000?

Just under half of them and most of the ones that haven't been in the Premier League recently.
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Unless Rangers or Celtic come in for him (I doubt Celtic will given the options they have just now)  I can only see him going down south to be fair as opposed to him only slightly increasing his wages at another SPFL club, aged 26 going by a previous post, i'm pretty sure he'll want a crack at down south for a couple of years to see where he gets to.

 

Not sure the depth of the Dundee squad/striking options, but on the face of it what a blow for Dundee if he does go just now, Hemmings and Stewart must have got a fair percentage of the total goals scored last season.

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Ibrahim Tall

Just under half of them and most of the ones that haven't been in the Premier League recently.

You're living in a dream world.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2833020/Premier-League-wages-dwarf-Europe-flight-players-England-earning-average-2-3million-year.html

 

The average yearly salary in the championship is around 486,000 per year per player, 182,000 in Scotland. New stand or not, we'll never compete financially with that. The OF can't with a lot either.

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You're living in a dream world.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2833020/Premier-League-wages-dwarf-Europe-flight-players-England-earning-average-2-3million-year.html

 

The average yearly salary in the championship is around 486,000 per year per player, 182,000 in Scotland. New stand or not, we'll never compete financially with that. The OF can't with a lot either.

That average is massively inflated by the clubs who have been in the Premier League recently and a few others who are bank rolled by multi millionares. I searched the wage costs of Championship sides and 10 have a wage bill around 10 million. Some less, some more. There is no reason why a well run Hearts won't be able to have a wage bill of 8-10 million once the stand is up. Aberdeen's wage bill is 6.6 million on 12k crowds. The difference being is the corporate revenue they make.
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Michael_Jackson

That average is massively inflated by the clubs who have been in the Premier League recently and a few others who are bank rolled by multi millionares. I searched the wage costs of Championship sides and 10 have a wage bill around 10 million. Some less, some more. There is no reason why a well run Hearts won't be able to have a wage bill of 8-10 million once the stand is up. Aberdeen's wage bill is 6.6 million on 12k crowds. The difference being is the corporate revenue they make.

Total nonesense. Almost to a word.

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Total nonesense. Almost to a word.

I stand by what I said and none of it is 'nonesense'. Granted the stuff about our finances once the stand is up is a matter of opinion, however we make next to no corporate revenue at the moment. I would say being based near the centre of a capital city and being in the financial capital of the UK outside London puts us in a good place to make a killing from it.
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Irrelevant. We were told the stadium redevelopment would have no impact on the player budget. If it is having an impact (and I am not saying it is), then this would be a change of plan.

Meanwhile here in the real world, 12 million pound stadium redevelopments do not row up the water of leith. :D

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Michael_Jackson

I stand by what I said and none of it is 'nonesense'. Granted the stuff about our finances once the stand is up is a matter of opinion, however we make next to no corporate revenue at the moment. I would say being based near the centre of a capital city and being in the financial capital of the UK puts us in a good place to make a killing from it.

Only five Championship clubs have a wage bill of under ?10million. One of which was relegated taking the total to 4 out of 24.

 

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/146518-insider-football-finance-championship-wage-bill-tops-500m

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Meanwhile here in the real world, 12 million pound stadium redevelopments do not row up the water of leith. :D

I am in the real world. It wasn't me who said it would not impact the player budget.
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That average is massively inflated by the clubs who have been in the Premier League recently and a few others who are bank rolled by multi millionares. I searched the wage costs of Championship sides and 10 have a wage bill around 10 million. Some less, some more. There is no reason why a well run Hearts won't be able to have a wage bill of 8-10 million once the stand is up. Aberdeen's wage bill is 6.6 million on 12k crowds. The difference being is the corporate revenue they make.

Dunno about that - where do those figures come from?

 

According to this http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/146216-championship-club-club, the only clubs that came in at 10m or under are Brentford, Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston and Rotherham. Charlton came in at 10.4 but that's still much higher than Aberdeen. Sheff Wed were the next lowest but they have been spending quite a bit since that data would have been collected.

 

Some massive wage bills in there (and it's now a year out of date). Not something we can or should be attempting to compete with IMO.

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Michael_Jackson

Dunno about that - where do those figures come from?

 

According to this http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/146216-championship-club-club, the only clubs that came in at 10m or under are Brentford, Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston and Rotherham. Charlton came in at 10.4 but that's still much higher than Aberdeen. Sheff Wed were the next lowest but they have been spending quite a bit since that data would have been collected.

 

Some massive wage bills in there (and it's now a year out of date). Not something we can or should be attempting to compete with IMO.

Chariot on got relegated.

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I am in the real world. It wasn't me who said it would not impact the player budget.

Think you are right about that but not sure what wiggle room there would be for transfer fees without selling folk. Apart from Paterson dont see much scope for fres coming in for anyone this window that would allow for that

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Chariot on got relegated.

True, as did MK. But they'll be replaced by Burton, who will definitely come in at under 10m, and Barnsley, who might too, so not sure it affects anything that much.

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Dunno about that - where do those figures come from?

 

According to this http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/146216-championship-club-club, the only clubs that came in at 10m or under are Brentford, Bristol City, MK Dons, Preston and Rotherham. Charlton came in at 10.4 but that's still much higher than Aberdeen. Sheff Wed were the next lowest but they have been spending quite a bit since that data would have been collected.

 

Some massive wage bills in there (and it's now a year out of date). Not something we can or should be attempting to compete with IMO.

I'm not saying match their wage budget. I am saying there is a good chance we could be in a position to compete with a lot of them for promising Scottish players who are not high end Championship/Premier League players. The pull of staying in Scotland is big for a lot of players and they would be willing to stay here for a grand, 1500 a week less just to be close to their family. Just ask Lee Wallace.
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I'm not saying match their wage budget. I am saying there is a good chance we could be in a position to compete with a lot of them for promising Scottish players who are not high end Championship/Premier League players. The pull of staying in Scotland is big for a lot of players and they would be willing to stay here for a grand, 1500 a week less just to be close to their family. Just ask Lee Wallace.

Possibly. Sadly the lure of the uglies has always kept some players in Scotland (and there's a good argument that Wallace has severely limited his own career by staying there). Not sure the same applies to us, unfortunately.  

 

A lot of players move to England not just for money but also the chance to play in front of bigger crowds and get a bigger move if they do well. The English Championship is a great place to put yourself in the shop window.

 

In any case, I don't think we're realistically talking about ?1-?1.5k a week. Some of the figures being paid by those clubs are absolutely scary. We'd find ourselves blown out of the water quite often.

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I am in the real world. It wasn't me who said it would not impact the player budget.

I read the same statement from Budge. Not for one second however did I think that if for example we sold a player for say just over a million pound, that money would go in to our 'war chest'. For example, the sale of Sow, that people keep mentioning when they talk about how we should be spending more on players.

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A much better example of sensible investment is maintaining a good competitive squad while also putting money aside to pay for a stadium redevelopment which could secure our rude financial health for decades to come.

 

I'm all for sensible investment to however we spent nearly ?200k on Souttar without so much as a blink of an eye, so could we not have found the same again with a bit more for Stewart.

 

I would much rather have him than Sammon any day.

 

If the offering on the pitch does not improve then what is the point in having a nice shiny new stand if it's not going to be full. I realise that the old stand needs major works doing and costs a lot of money each year to maintain but the balance between the team on the park and the Stadium needs to be right.

 

There are a lot of disgruntled fans at the moment just waiting to see what sort of fayre is going to be served up on the pitch and if it is not good then I can see the season ticket numbers dwindle and our capacity will never be reached.

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I'm all for sensible investment to however we spent nearly ?200k on Souttar without so much as a blink of an eye, so could we not have found the same again with a bit more for Stewart.

 

I would much rather have him than Sammon any day.

 

If the offering on the pitch does not improve then what is the point in having a nice shiny new stand if it's not going to be full. I realise that the old stand needs major works doing and costs a lot of money each year to maintain but the balance between the team on the park and the Stadium needs to be right.

 

There are a lot of disgruntled fans at the moment just waiting to see what sort of fayre is going to be served up on the pitch and if it is not good then I can see the season ticket numbers dwindle and our capacity will never be reached.

We have sold more season tickets than ever before in our history off the back of last season, the season people are using as evidence of us supposedly not fulfilling our potential. We look stronger now than we did at the start of that season, so I just don't see this imminent catastrophe that will see us lose fans.

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scott herbertson

I'm all for sensible investment to however we spent nearly ?200k on Souttar without so much as a blink of an eye, so could we not have found the same again with a bit more for Stewart.

 

I would much rather have him than Sammon any day.

 

If the offering on the pitch does not improve then what is the point in having a nice shiny new stand if it's not going to be full. I realise that the old stand needs major works doing and costs a lot of money each year to maintain but the balance between the team on the park and the Stadium needs to be right.

 

There are a lot of disgruntled fans at the moment just waiting to see what sort of fayre is going to be served up on the pitch and if it is not good then I can see the season ticket numbers dwindle and our capacity will never be reached.

 

 

Depending on the relative wage demands Souttar could cost us ?650K over three years, Stewart ?1.3 million. Also having found it once, last year doesn't mean we have another lot to spend this year as Souttar's wages are still coming out of this years budget

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The Internet

I like Greg Stewart, decent player. Couple of Dundee fans I work with were saying ?500k to Birmingham is the strong rumour going around. Interestingly, Stewart and the cop beater McGowan were involved in an altercation with Dundee fans after Wednesday's defeat. Many Dundee fans not a big fan of Sir Paul and think that other than lucking out on picking up Hemmings and Stewart he's done not much else. Sound familiar?

Should it sound familiar?

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Bazzas right boot

I'd imagine we'd be priced out of this one.

 

Dundee could really struggle this season after losing Hemmings and now potentially Stewart. I don't think they'll finish bottom but they could find themselves dragged into a playoff battle.

My thinking, good bet for relegation.

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i wish jj was my dad

Fortunately, the people now running the club won't risk our long term future chasing rainbows.

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Michael_Jackson

Fortunately, the people now running the club won't risk our long term future chasing rainbows.

Signings Greg Stewart is chasing rainbows? **** me.

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The issue Scottish clubs have is we pay similar to League 1 in England (slightly more) however if players join a league 1 team who has a shot at promotion they are doing so with a view to earning 350k+ if they do get promoted. In Scotland the only way to increase your wage is a transfer to the OF, and even then Celtic are probably at championship wages not EPL level.

 

Any chance a Scottish talent gets a shot at England they'll take it and who can blame them. I'd suggest probably for every 10 that go south 2 make a career, 6 end up back here in some form mostly likely loan to start with and 2 completely fall out the game.

 

It's a short harsh career and you have to make the most of it. Scott Allan is an example of someone on the brink of obscurity.

 

If Patterson has any sense he'll try and get down south instead of heading West he may just make and if not he'll definitely get a shot back up here.

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My half sister

The issue Scottish clubs have is we pay similar to League 1 in England (slightly more) however if players join a league 1 team who has a shot at promotion they are doing so with a view to earning 350k+ if they do get promoted. In Scotland the only way to increase your wage is a transfer to the OF, and even then Celtic are probably at championship wages not EPL level.

 

Any chance a Scottish talent gets a shot at England they'll take it and who can blame them. I'd suggest probably for every 10 that go south 2 make a career, 6 end up back here in some form mostly likely loan to start with and 2 completely fall out the game.

 

It's a short harsh career and you have to make the most of it. Scott Allan is an example of someone on the brink of obscurity.

 

If Patterson has any sense he'll try and get down south instead of heading West he may just make and if not he'll definitely get a shot back up here.

you can see how players can get their heads turned. There is no chance Greg Stewart will sign for Hearts but he'll go to a biggish Championship team and earn a million a year.

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Rather we went for someone a bit younger with more potential sell on value. Someone like Stevie Mallan from St. Mirren would be nice.

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i wish jj was my dad

Signings Greg Stewart is chasing rainbows? **** me.

if he costs 500k and 5k per week then he's way out of our price range right now. Talk of pushing the boat out is depressingly familiar.

 

The club have been on their arse 3 times in my lifetime. I don't want us back in that situation ever again and repeating our previous mistakes would be the definition of stupidity

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FarmerTweedy

It's certainly shows a real lack of intent if we are not trying to sign the best players we can in our league as happens at every single other league in the world.

Whether Stewart is affordable or not is a completely different question. However gambling on cheap foreign imports generally fails far more than it succeeds.

You have to speculate to accumulate lots of debt and end up in serious trouble, risking administration, like Motherwell, Dundee (twice), Livingston, Hearts and a few others, and maybe even going bust, like Rangers (remember them?) did.There is very clearly a gap in the Scottish game for a club to take from the pishy small clubs like Dundee, give the players a decent contract, coach them well and then sell on for sizeable seven figure fees to the land of milk and honey down south.

FTFY!

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FarmerTweedy

I've not once condoned or suggested we return to the levels of expenditure seen under Romanov.

There is a huge difference between uncontrolled spending with no thought on sustainability and controlled and targeted investment.

As much as it is imperative to replace he main stand, it's as equally important to have a good product on the park, or at least one that wins!

Taking the support of the fans for granted is a risky endeavour, a bad start to the season will see the fans turn on the management team and hen the new stand won't matter a toss.

How the badword does setting a budget that the club can actually afford and sticking to it equate to taking the support of the fans for granted?

 

You're slavering utter nonsense on this thread.

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FarmerTweedy

And people not advocating sensible investment have no understanding of growth.

Again, there is a difference between controlled sensible spending and 'spunking' money on inflated transfer fees.

A good example of sensible investment would be Kenny McLean for ?300k.

Controlled spending is exactly what we're doing. You're arguing for 'speculate to accumulate' which means gambling with money we can't actually afford on our income, in the hope (and hope is what it would be) that we end up making more money back. That's a completely different thing.

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Michael_Jackson

Controlled spending is exactly what we're doing. You're arguing for 'speculate to accumulate' which means gambling with money we can't actually afford on our income, in the hope (and hope is what it would be) that we end up making more money back. That's a completely different thing.

There is a clear and coherent argument for investing in transfer fees for the correct player under the correct circumstances. I fail to see why stating this means Iam slavering nonesense.

 

For what it's worth, any investment that does not provide

Guaranteed results is speculation, even building a new stand.

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A Man Named Jambo

That average is massively inflated by the clubs who have been in the Premier League recently and a few others who are bank rolled by multi millionares. I searched the wage costs of Championship sides and 10 have a wage bill around 10 million. Some less, some more. There is no reason why a well run Hearts won't be able to have a wage bill of 8-10 million once the stand is up. Aberdeen's wage bill is 6.6 million on 12k crowds. The difference being is the corporate revenue they make.

 

There is absolutely no chance we would have a wage structure that would accommodate 8-10 million even if we were being run at full capacity and particularly not in the current climate. Aberdeen crowds are around 13k - 14k - they also charge more for both PATG and season tickets.

 

We need to be realistic - we are currently in the process of developing our stadium as well as the small fact that we are only a few years on from our near bankruptcy. I like Stewart but he's not worth the touted fee of 250k. The days of Romanov are over and we need to spend within our means.

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