Neilson must deliver next season

[4marsbars]

In his first season, Neilson delivered promotion at a canter and a comfortable lead over Rangers and Hibs, followed by record season ticket sales.

 

In his second season, to full houses, Neilson delivered a European place by some margin.

 

Let's cut out the 'Neilson must deliver' ( as if he hadn't already) language.

 

Think back three years. We went into admin. Are Hearts now ahead of, or behind, where you expected us to be?

[Sydney]

Some people have it in for Robbie.

 

And not entirely for footballing reasons.

 

This "Neilson must deliver" shite is tiresome.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Sydney

[OTT]

Neilsons had his failings and his successes. Its important that he continues to build on his successes and address his failures.

 

At least 1 win against celtic next season should be a target.

[Son Of Anarchy]

I'm still waiting on Robbie delivering my hand written apology

[The Future's Maroon]

I just can't fathom why a section of fans on here keep being so critical of Robbie (And Levein) so much.

 

We (the board) planned for two years in Championship....amazingly won it at canter. With Rangers/Hibs there in what is probably the hardest Championship in years.

 

Season just passed we aimed at top six, easily got third and Euro football next season. Ok we were poor in the cups.

 

It seems, to me, that season in the Championship has either turned folks heads or attracted a load of gloryhunting folk to this forum. Folk who expect us to dominate every game and win by two or three (min) goals....starting to sound like Celtic & The Rangers fans.

 

People will no doubt disagree with but this is my opinion.

[Lambo85]

I'm a bit fed up with this "Neilson is learning" stuff......When does he stop learning and become the finished article 2017, 18, 19? When he leave Hearts which he will do one day will his new employer say "We have got a manager with a proven record who is however learning his trade!" The problems with Neilson are well noted and observed when it comes to the "big" games.  Poor tactics leading to abject failure. No hands up saying "it was my fault today!" IMO Robbie doesn't have it, and I doubt he ever will. Time will tell.

 

Totally agree.

 

My question - is Neilson learning because he made the same mistakes more than once last season.

[XB52]

How often have Hearts finished top 2 and reached a cup final in the last 120 years? Not many I hazard. I think you need a wee reality check mate.

he needs to piss of to his own team's message board and stop trolling this one

[Haken]

I'm a bit fed up with this "Neilson is learning" stuff......When does he stop learning and become the finished article 2017, 18, 19? When he leave Hearts which he will do one day will his new employer say "We have got a manager with a proven record who is however learning his trade!" The problems with Neilson are well noted and observed when it comes to the "big" games.  Poor tactics leading to abject failure. No hands up saying "it was my fault today!" IMO Robbie doesn't have it, and I doubt he ever will. Time will tell.

Yeah, why doesn't he come out and admit that he knows everything there is to know and that there is nothing left for him to learn?  After two years - two whole years - surely he should be there by now?

 

Okay, maybe a tad tongue in cheek.  But please define 'abject failure' where the club's stated aim was to finish top 6, achieving it with a third placed finish.

[Cut The Crap]

When he took over there were two stated principles to his approach. First, a high-tempo pressing game. Second, a controlled passing game. The first principle only appears now and then and that is what all teams can do. It is okay to be 'up' for a cup game as was the case against Aberdeen but a team playing a high-tempo pressing game has to be doing it every week. The passing game increasingly disappeared in favour of hitting long balls. I'm prepared to give him next season as he has earned that but I do want to see some return to what Robbie said were his footballing principles. Hopefully this summer will see an improvement in the overall quality of the squad. 

 

I agree with this. We played in the stated way for about half of last season, but since then the style has become increasingly agricultural and boring. That might be down to pragmatism - the gulf in quality between Premiership and Championship is much bigger than many would have you believe (witness this and last season's play-off finals) - but even if that;'s the case, there must be a way to entertain as well as win. 

 

I'd also like to see improvements in first-team player recruitment (at the moment the strategy seems muddled to me, signing loads and hoping that half of them might be decent) and significant progress on the youth/development front as well, which seems to have been allowed to drift somewhat in the past couple of years.

[Hashimoto]

Yeah, why doesn't he come out and admit that he knows everything there is to know and that there is nothing left for him to learn?  After two years - two whole years - surely he should be there by now?

 

Okay, maybe a tad tongue in cheek.  But please define 'abject failure' where the club's stated aim was to finish top 6, achieving it with a third placed finish.

Define Abject failure?  - In my books it's where the level of performance falls far short of expectation. The same performance expectation from the management as for the players. The Hibs games this season and last season and Celtic games are obvious examples....3rd place was great and would have been accepted at the start of the season. However we now know that it should have been a lot more based on the standard of opposition we faced. I just wish he would just stick to the basics. his match day tactics tends to baffle and confuse the hell out of his own team along with the supporters with the usual consequences. 

[JamboJohn1874]

In his first season, Neilson delivered promotion at a canter and a comfortable lead over Rangers and Hibs, followed by record season ticket sales.

 

In his second season, to full houses, Neilson delivered a European place by some margin.

 

Let's cut out the 'Neilson must deliver' ( as if he hadn't already) language.

 

Think back three years. We went into admin. Are Hearts now ahead of, or behind, where you expected us to be?

Its all history.

 

We won two out of our last eight games and the manager was implementing anti-football, especially away from home. In football you are only as good as your last 5 to 10 games.

 

A sizable percentage would like Neilson to improve next season. This means:

 

No more tinkering.

No more mistakes.

No more anti-football.

No more worrying about the opposition.

No more thinking he is a tactical genius.

No more going for draws at home.

No more Mr Quiet man.

No more money spinning tie crap.

No more playing weakened teams in early round cup ties.

No more Oshaniwa.

No more bottling it in big games.

No more derby disasters in the cup.

 

Rangers are broke, Aberdeen are distinctly ordinary so underperforming is not acceptable next season.

Edited May 24, 2016 by JamboJohn1874

[zoltan socrates]

Some people have it in for Robbie.

And not entirely for footballing reasons.

This "Neilson must deliver" shite is tiresome.

Entirely Agee, how many people, in any job they do, became experts in the first 24 months of their chosen profession, get the impression the Robbie out brigade are from the more, let's say, blue collar end of society, maybe they should keep with tradition and F off to fester, spoil the brats with no real grasp of what nearly happened to us, they'll be expecting Neymar to sign next

[JamboJohn1874]

Entirely Agee, how many people, in any job they do, became experts in the first 24 months of their chosen profession, get the impression the Robbie out brigade are from the more, let's say, blue collar end of society, maybe they should keep with tradition and F off to fester, spoil the brats with no real grasp of what nearly happened to us, they'll be expecting Neymar to sign next

A club of Hearts size and stature should never be losing games because the manager is learning on the job or is making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

[Harvey Specter]

Its all history.

 

We won two out of our last eight games and the manager was implementing anti-football, especially away from home. In football you are only as good as your last 5 to 10 games.

 

A sizable percentage would like Neilson to improve next season. This means:

 

No more tinkering.

No more mistakes.

No more anti-football.

No more worrying about the opposition.

No more thinking he is a tactical genius.

No more going for draws at home.

No more Mr Quiet man.

No more money spinning tie crap.

No more playing weakened teams in early round cup ties.

No more Oshaniwa.

No more bottling it in big games.

No more derby disasters in the cup.

 

Rangers are broke, Aberdeen are distinctly ordinary so underperforming is not acceptable next season.

 

Rangers clearly aren't broke based on recent signings. 

 

Aberdeen are better placed than Hearts to challenge Celtic at this moment in time, McInnes has built a good squad over the last 3/4 seasons therefore if Aberdeen are 'distinctly ordinary', what does that make us?

[Macros]

I really don't understand what appears to be a hatred of Robbie Neilson and Craig Levein from some of our support. The blame for all our defeats and even Hibs winning the Scottish Cup is pinned on them, nothing whatsoever to do with players not playing well on the day, poor referee decisions or even the fact that two other teams couldn't beat Hibs. No, it's all down to Craig's negativity in tactics and Robbie allegedly allowing Craig to make the decisions on who to play and how to set out the team. Is there any concrete proof of this? None that I have seen, only guys with a bee in their bonnet about something and blatant trolling from others. 

We have just had a good season. At the start I, along with a large portion of the support, said we'd be happy with a top 6 finish. Of course I hoped for more but realistically we were a newly promoted team with players who had looked good in the Championship but we didn't know how they would cope in the Premiership. Some had SPL experience but others were new to Scotland let alone the Premiership. As it was we comfortably secured third before the split and qualified, the hard way, for Europe.

We have had a few players who haven't lived up to expectation (Oshinawa and Dauda), some have flattered to deceive at times (Juanma and Augustyn) but we have unearthed a few gems (Djoum, Rossi and Kitchen) and we signed Souttar who I think will go a long way in the game. We start the new campaign with a better squad than last year even before we delve into the transfer market. 

I know some decisions made on team selection and substitutions have been baffling at times but Robbie got it right more than he got it wrong. I'm not an apologist for the management but I despair when some of our own support consider a good use of money and effort is hiring a plane to fly over our ground during a home game criticising the manager.

As for this season I would be happy to finish in the top 3 at least, that way we will either have passed Aberdeen or seen off the challenge from Rangers, who will have a bigger budget than us. I'd love to win the league but I don't expect it, I'd also like us to in at least the semi-final stage of either cup, if not the final itself. But most of all I'd like our support to be more collective, less interested in shooting down the team and what they achieve and getting right behind the players and staff, week in week out at a full Tynecastle Park.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Nothing different from every season really, although distant 4th and no cup semi should mean the sack.

[zoltan socrates]

A club of Hearts size and stature should never be losing games because the manager is learning on the job or is making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

A club of hearts size? Lol, you do remember our paradigm shift of just two years ago yes? It will take a long time for us to return to the stature we once held, we are an academy for developing and bringing on players and managers, how did you miss that statement made when Robbie as promoted, our stature was damaged, like it or not and btw I hate it, when we moved into admin, stop living in the past, have ambition yes but do try and fix yourself in reality

 

As for 'over and over again' - if those mistakes are made next year then I agree, but, as per hearts mission statement, he is learning, you don't learn all there is in one or two seasons, a mistake made may be particular to one game or a fundamental flaw in his approach but on the timescales demanded by the unrealistic amongst us it is not feasible to suggest he can iron out all flaws within that timeframe

Edited May 24, 2016 by zoltan socrates

[jambali]

Neilsons had his failings and his successes. Its important that he continues to build on his successes and address his failures.

 

At least 1 win against celtic next season should be a target.

My problem is, I don't see any signs of either...

[pcw1874]

These Neilson threads are tedious.

 

We've gone from almost being liquidated to European qualification in two seasons; the people demanding/expecting more than what's actually been delivered are, frankly, living on another planet.

Edited May 24, 2016 by pcw1874

[Haken]

Define Abject failure?  - In my books it's where the level of performance falls far short of expectation. The same performance expectation from the management as for the players. The Hibs games this season and last season and Celtic games are obvious examples....3rd place was great and would have been accepted at the start of the season. However we now know that it should have been a lot more based on the standard of opposition we faced. I just wish he would just stick to the basics. his match day tactics tends to baffle and confuse the hell out of his own team along with the supporters with the usual consequences. 

Ok, there's some stuff in there that I could see some rationale for.  When you say a 'lot more', are you saying we should have been closer to Aberdeen but still third, or finished second, or finished first?

 

We should have seen the SC tie out against Hibs.  We didn't.  We were awful in the first half of the replay, but did everything but score in the second half, so Neilson addressed the issues at half time (maybe that was too late, and he did, presumably, set the direction of play in the first half).

 

The rebuilding process is ongoing, whether we like it or not.  I'll say it again, but Neilson has more than delivered the targets he's been set in back to back seasons.  We all want improvement, though.  Continuous improvement is what we all strive for.

[John Findlay]

Define Abject failure? - In my books it's where the level of performance falls far short of expectation. The same performance expectation from the management as for the players. The Hibs games this season and last season and Celtic games are obvious examples....3rd place was great and would have been accepted at the start of the season. However we now know that it should have been a lot more based on the standard of opposition we faced. I just wish he would just stick to the basics. his match day tactics tends to baffle and confuse the hell out of his own team along with the supporters with the usual consequences.

You know everything do you?

 

I'll guarantee you that Matt Busby, Jock Stein, Bill Shankly, Brian Clough, Alex Ferguson, Tommy Walker were all still learning until they decided to call it a day. Robbie Neilson has made mistakes, who hasn't. Hibs beat Hearts 3-4 at Tynie on their way to the Scottish Cup Final in 1958. They may have lost that final 1-0 to Clyde but I am sure you and your cohorts would have been demanding Tommy Walker got the sack as Hibs had beat us.

[Hashimoto]

You know everything do you?

 

I'll guarantee you that Matt Busby, Jock Stein, Bill Shankly, Brian Clough, Alex Ferguson, Tommy Walker were all still learning until they decided to call it a day. Robbie Neilson has made mistakes, who hasn't. Hibs beat Hearts 3-4 at Tynie on their way to the Scottish Cup Final in 1958. They may have lost that final 1-0 to Clyde but I am sure you and your cohorts would have been demanding Tommy Walker got the sack as Hibs had beat us.

No I don't profess or pretend to know everything. however I reckon that i'm not a bad judge of character. Nor am I demanding that Neilson get the sack! Incidently I'm old enough to remember the managers you quote. Neilson will do well if he as half as good as any of them. I'm just one of a number of supporters that feel really frustrated about a season that could have been much better. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Hashimoto

[Bungalow Bill]

The bottom line is that regardless of who the manager is, they have to always deliver.

 

The problem is, we the fans have different objectives than the objectives set by the club. In fact, the objectives will vary from fan to fan.

 

So far, Neilson's target was to get us promotion within 2 years, he knocked that out the park. His second objective was top 6, again knocked out the park.

 

I'm sure his objective next season will be top 3 and semi finals in the cup, but will the board couple this with stylish football? I doubt it.

 

The trend is that Neilson will deliver, he's done nothing yet to suggest he won't.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Diego10]

There's very few managers who have nothing but success from day one. Ferguson in his first two seasons at St Mirren scraped out the old second division in 6th place when they restructured then finished in mid table in the first before getting promoted to the Premier League.

 

The club is building something sustainable. We all want it to click immediately but the difference in squad quality is notable, we're motoring forward off the park and this season we will be working with a much higher budget for players.

 

If we go backwards the club will notice it. We've been ruthless with players who we think aren't up to it, I don't think we'd be sentimental with Robbie if it came to it

[A_A wehatethehibs]

156 points for Robbie in 2 seasons, very good return so far. Far better than any Hearts fan could ever have realistically thought possible after Locke's last game as manager and then budgement day with all of the uncertainty surrounding our club and our squad.

 

However, I am in agreement that expectation levels have risen as a direct result of the fantastic work by Neilson and all of our players, who have all put in a phenomenal shift in the last 2 seasons to get us back into the top 3 clubs in literally the shortest amount of time physically possible. Now it's about trying to make us the #1 club, which has been the dream of hearts fans, players and managers for generations.

 

Considering the progress made up till now, I see no reason to believe we will stop progressing when we turn to the next chapter, with our return to European competition, young Scotland players like Hamilton, Paterson, McGhee, Souttar, Walker, King, Nicholson all hopefully taking another stride forward, along with other new youngsters, a strong spine of Rossi, Ozturk, djoum, Buaben, and kitchen, and a new set of players to join and give us added freshness, intensity, quality and competition for places.

 

People are quick to criticise the hibs result however I have not seen one person (admittedly haven't read the whole thread) mention the fact that we bounced back from that bad result with 4 straight clean sheet wins, a telling demonstration of quality of character and strong desire to win. Now we have to harness that desire and apply it over a season long fight for the major honours - the Hearts support expects.

[Silvery_Moon]

Its all history.

 

We won two out of our last eight games and the manager was implementing anti-football, especially away from home. In football you are only as good as your last 5 to 10 games.

 

A sizable percentage would like Neilson to improve next season. This means:

 

No more tinkering.

No more mistakes.

No more anti-football.

No more worrying about the opposition.

No more thinking he is a tactical genius.

No more going for draws at home.

No more Mr Quiet man.

No more money spinning tie crap.

No more playing weakened teams in early round cup ties.

No more Oshaniwa.

No more bottling it in big games.

No more derby disasters in the cup.

 

Rangers are broke, Aberdeen are distinctly ordinary so underperforming is not acceptable next season.

[4marsbars]

Its all history.

 

We won two out of our last eight games and the manager was implementing anti-football, especially away from home. In football you are only as good as your last 5 to 10 games.

 

A sizable percentage would like Neilson to improve next season. This means:

 

No more tinkering.

No more mistakes.

No more anti-football.

No more worrying about the opposition.

No more thinking he is a tactical genius.

No more going for draws at home.

No more Mr Quiet man.

No more money spinning tie crap.

No more playing weakened teams in early round cup ties.

No more Oshaniwa.

No more bottling it in big games.

No more derby disasters in the cup.

 

Rangers are broke, Aberdeen are distinctly ordinary so underperforming is not acceptable next season.

No tinkering, means no learning.

 

No mistakes! Why didn't anyone else think of that? All we need is perfection. Simple.

 

Won't address the rest of your list.

[Livvyjambo]

As usual with JJ OP is hysterical and single minded in criticism. Maybe he should just support Celtic or man city . However for me we do need to see a consistent style of play and evidence he is developing our players. And win more than he loses

Edited May 24, 2016 by Livvyjambo

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Had a thinky think about this thread this morning, trying to think of what expectations should be for next term:

 

• Most importantly, finish above Rangers.  This is not exactly a fair expectation, but if we're ever to achieve the ambitions that have been bantered around, we have to stand in their way yet again. In Robbie's first year we laid down a marker that Rangers will not simply waltz back to the duopoly.  We have to do it again.  Yes, they'll have improved, but hopefully so will we.  If they go straight back to second next season, it's on with Scottish football for two clubs and everyone else is just allowed to come along for the ride.  If we keep them in third, or hopefully with Aberdeen's help, 4th and possibly out of Europe, we frustrate that again and keep the door open for better Scottish football.
• We have to beat Celtic at least once, whether in the cups or in the league.  And we need to take a result from at least two league games.  I don't expect us to dominate them, but this winless streak got old a long time ago.
• Win 2/3 of our games against the bottom six.  We had a 50% win percentage against them this season.  It needs to go up.
• Barring another early Celtic draw, we need at least one decent cup run. 
• If we face Hibs in a cup, we have to knock them out and advance.  This year was a bad beat in bad circumstances, and I'm over it, but no excuses for next season.

 

I'm of the belief that this season was plenty good enough for our first season back, and am quite happy with it.  As such, if the above expectations aren't met, I won't want Robbie sacked, but I will want the message communicated that our standard has gone up and he needs to make the step up the following season.

[Bauld]

The level of crap on here is incredible.

 

No manager ever stops learning. It is a job where you learn new things daily.

 

But let's put robbie aside for now.

 

Nobody from Levein to Robbie to the fans and critics knew at the start of this season if any of our players would be a success in this league. Even those with previous experience like Paterson had plenty to prove that he had improved as a right back because his last stint in this league saw him play as a striker and when at right back he wasn't great on the defensive side.

 

As it transpired Gomis, Pallardo, Augustyn, Juwon, Juanma, Nicholson, Reilly and King all failed to give a solid season. As did Walker due to injury.

 

Sow was sold in January.

 

El Hass didn't play at all.

 

Ozturk, Buaben and Rossi struggled at various times with injury among others.

 

 

I honestly don't know what more people wanted from this season. Nobody on this earth knew where we would be at the start. They were hopeful but the start we made to the season overhyped our ability. Most teams who are promoted make a good start because they are riding the promotion wave.

 

Even I have to confess to being surprised at just how different this league is though. The fitness levels are much higher as is the organisation. Teams are much harder to break down and most of them don't allow for decent free flowing football, they sit back with a wall of 4-5 and 2 holding midfielders and look for counter attacks. They work hard to spoil a game against better sides trying to force errors which makes a game look ugly.

 

I don't think the players were good enough to play good football against these teams. Good football requires everyone to be able to play at that level, if one player can't hit the standard required the move falls apart and looks shit. I think we had 3-4 of those players that couldn't hit that level.

 

The ones who could hit that level didnt have enough options around them to make it happen. There is also a strong arguement to suggest the majority of those who were capable didn't arrive until late in the season. Djoum, Kitchen, Cowie and Walker (long injury lay off) are all capable but came in too late to gel and make a big difference.

 

 

Next season will be the bench mark for moving forward. Robbie will know what players are capable of at this level. The players will know now from experience what is required at this level. The new recruits will now get a pre season under the belt and will be well gelled into the squad. Hopefully the new recruits take us up a level as well.

 

Long winded I know but that is the extent of the variables to the season just ended. With so many unknowns it just isn't fair to lay so much criticism at the door of a manager who has brought us right back up and into Europe at the first time of asking.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Great post, Bauld.

[H2]

The level of crap on here is incredible.

 

No manager ever stops learning. It is a job where you learn new things daily.

 

But let's put robbie aside for now.

 

Nobody from Levein to Robbie to the fans and critics knew at the start of this season if any of our players would be a success in this league. Even those with previous experience like Paterson had plenty to prove that he had improved as a right back because his last stint in this league saw him play as a striker and when at right back he wasn't great on the defensive side.

 

As it transpired Gomis, Pallardo, Augustyn, Juwon, Juanma, Nicholson, Reilly and King all failed to give a solid season. As did Walker due to injury.

 

Sow was sold in January.

 

El Hass didn't play at all.

 

Ozturk, Buaben and Rossi struggled at various times with injury among others.

 

 

I honestly don't know what more people wanted from this season. Nobody on this earth knew where we would be at the start. They were hopeful but the start we made to the season overhyped our ability. Most teams who are promoted make a good start because they are riding the promotion wave.

 

Even I have to confess to being surprised at just how different this league is though. The fitness levels are much higher as is the organisation. Teams are much harder to break down and most of them don't allow for decent free flowing football, they sit back with a wall of 4-5 and 2 holding midfielders and look for counter attacks. They work hard to spoil a game against better sides trying to force errors which makes a game look ugly.

 

I don't think the players were good enough to play good football against these teams. Good football requires everyone to be able to play at that level, if one player can't hit the standard required the move falls apart and looks shit. I think we had 3-4 of those players that couldn't hit that level.

 

The ones who could hit that level didnt have enough options around them to make it happen. There is also a strong arguement to suggest the majority of those who were capable didn't arrive until late in the season. Djoum, Kitchen, Cowie and Walker (long injury lay off) are all capable but came in too late to gel and make a big difference.

 

Next season will be the bench mark for moving forward. Robbie will know what players are capable of at this level. The players will know now from experience what is required at this level. The new recruits will now get a pre season under the belt and will be well gelled into the squad. Hopefully the new recruits take us up a level as well.

 

Long winded I know but that is the extent of the variables to the season just ended. With so many unknowns it just isn't fair to lay so much criticism at the door of a manager who has brought us right back up and into Europe at the first time of asking.

Good points.

 

There is a solution for all these people who think they know better than the Hearts Board, get your money out and do it.

And if they think they know better than  Robbie, go get your coaching badges and show us.

In all the criticism of the Hearts management team all I can see is personal opinions.

In support I can see facts - Season 1 = amazing success, better than expected. Season 2 = amazing success, better than expected.

We will get more success by ALL supporting the management team and the board and putting all our energy into that. Positive = Success, Negative leads to failure.

[portobellojambo1]

Good points.

 

There is a solution for all these people who think they know better than the Hearts Board, get your money out and do it.

And if they think they know better than  Robbie, go get your coaching badges and show us.

In all the criticism of the Hearts management team all I can see is personal opinions.

In support I can see facts - Season 1 = amazing success, better than expected. Season 2 = amazing success, better than expected.

We will get more success by ALL supporting the management team and the board and putting all our energy into that. Positive = Success, Negative leads to failure.

 

 

Cannot really be bothered getting into the discussion in general H2, just one question for you. The last few words of yours I've highlighted, would you be willing to say that said statement applies both on and off the park and relates not only to the way fans support the team/management but how the team performs because the placement of the words positive and negative applies equally to both ?

Edited May 24, 2016 by portobellojambo1

[ollie2004]

With Rangers broke and not having European football next season, we had better not see any inferiority complex or big game bottling it from Neilson against them next season.

I personally have no more patience for all this inexperience, tinkering, bottling it, worrying about opposition or over thinking games.

Neilson contributed to Hibs ending their cup drought this week and has now increased pressure on himself to deliver something next season.

If he survives the first 10 games, I am now expecting a top 2 finish and at least one final next season. We must continue to progress as part of the 5 year plan, especially while Rangers are still money challenged.

Big game mentality and away games have been lacking with Neilson and he must step up to the plate next season.

You really need to sit down pal, do you not realise what you have witnessed these past 2 seasons, were you about in the 1970's? If not you are living the dream as I saw and despaired of what was served up then. Live the moment!

[Cammo72]

Brendon Rogers was hailed as brilliant at Liverpool. Then Suarez left. And turned out Rogers was crap, and he got sacked.

 

Be interested in Robbie's record post-Sow and pre-Sow if anyone has analysed it.

 

I think to really praise a manager they have to finish above the money. In other words, this season i imagine our salary bill is the 3rd largest in the league. And that's where we finished. Where the money says we should. Last season we finished first, with the money saying 2nd. Which I think was down to Sow.

 

So it's a reason I'm hesitant to gush on league performance. So I come back to the 2 games v Hibs. Jefferies was a motivator. Burley a man manager. Just not sure about Neilson. The lack of heart at ER being unforgiveable.

 

I think we need someone to take us to the next level. If Ann is serious about a league challenge, we need a new manager. I still like Robbie. But think we need something different to progress. With us being in Europe I'd be interested in the quality of applicant from UK and abroad.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Brendon Rogers was hailed as brilliant at Liverpool. Then Suarez left. And turned out Rogers was crap, and he got sacked.

 

Be interested in Robbie's record post-Sow and pre-Sow if anyone has analysed it.

 

I think to really praise a manager they have to finish above the money. In other words, this season i imagine our salary bill is the 3rd largest in the league. And that's where we finished. Where the money says we should. Last season we finished first, with the money saying 2nd. Which I think was down to Sow.

 

So it's a reason I'm hesitant to gush on league performance. So I come back to the 2 games v Hibs. Jefferies was a motivator. Burley a man manager. Just not sure about Neilson. The lack of heart at ER being unforgiveable.

 

I think we need someone to take us to the next level. If Ann is serious about a league challenge, we need a new manager. I still like Robbie. But think we need something different to progress. With us being in Europe I'd be interested in the quality of applicant from UK and abroad.

 

The salary survey that tells the whole story for this past season usually won't come out until next summer, but I expect we were fourth or perhaps even fifth when the season started in terms of wage bill.  Given United's salary dumps and our signings we may have moved past them.  It's also possible, given the size of their squad, that Hibs had a bigger playing budget than us.

 

Regardless, Neilson will have achieved what he did this season on probably a third of the budget of what we were paying in, say, 2010/11.

[John mcCartney]

its good for hmfc that the vermin are in the championship next season as the cookie monster owns neilson

if there were derbies coming up ,the apprehension of the forthcoming season would be completely ramped up on here

im totally appreciative of neilsons tenure,99% of the fans acknowledge that so far, but a lot of heart of midlothian enthusiasts have lost their trust of the guy myself included

ann needs to make the strategy of the club directive towards achieving top dog status in the capital once more because in doing that
the fanbase will become united  and this forum will return to being what it was like before all the infighting commenced

[ollie2004]

The salary survey that tells the whole story for this past season usually won't come out until next summer, but I expect we were fourth or perhaps even fifth when the season started in terms of wage bill.  Given United's salary dumps and our signings we may have moved past them.  It's also possible, given the size of their squad, that Hibs had a bigger playing budget than us.

 

Regardless, Neilson will have achieved what he did this season on probably a third of the budget of what we were paying in, say, 2010/11.

Good post, good to see someone else has realistic expectations on this journey, will we win the league, probably not but hopefully we challenge and do better in the cup competitions, if so then another successful season.

[milky_26]

The salary survey that tells the whole story for this past season usually won't come out until next summer, but I expect we were fourth or perhaps even fifth when the season started in terms of wage bill.  Given United's salary dumps and our signings we may have moved past them.  It's also possible, given the size of their squad, that Hibs had a bigger playing budget than us.

 

Regardless, Neilson will have achieved what he did this season on probably a third of the budget of what we were paying in, say, 2010/11.

in relation to the league i would not count hibs salary, but in the whole of scottish football it would not surprise me if last season celtic, rangers, aberdeen, dundee united and hibs all had larger wage bills than us

[Smith&Weston]

Sign decent forwards and this will be a different team. End of!

 

If you look at any of the teams who done well, all got decent strikers. We had average strikers (Sow apart).

 

Same in England (Kane, Vardy). Teams that struggled ( Liverpool and Man Utd and Chelsea due to lack of goals)

 

We sign 2-3 forwards and we will win things with that group of players.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

There was a mods post about trolling prior to the cup final.

 

Sorry but this guy is far worse. Regular efforts to annoy with the same thread

[Texia]

its good for hmfc that the vermin are in the championship next season as the cookie monster owns neilson

 

 

Pish.

[socrates82]

Brendon Rogers was hailed as brilliant at Liverpool. Then Suarez left. And turned out Rogers was crap, and he got sacked.

 

Be interested in Robbie's record post-Sow and pre-Sow if anyone has analysed it.

 

I think to really praise a manager they have to finish above the money. In other words, this season i imagine our salary bill is the 3rd largest in the league. And that's where we finished. Where the money says we should. Last season we finished first, with the money saying 2nd. Which I think was down to Sow.

 

So it's a reason I'm hesitant to gush on league performance. So I come back to the 2 games v Hibs. Jefferies was a motivator. Burley a man manager. Just not sure about Neilson. The lack of heart at ER being unforgiveable.

 

I think we need someone to take us to the next level. If Ann is serious about a league challenge, we need a new manager. I still like Robbie. But think we need something different to progress. With us being in Europe I'd be interested in the quality of applicant from UK and abroad.

 

On salaries, this is where the folk having a go at Neilson (although I'm still convinced most are Hibs trolls!) could do with some perspective.

 

We had the 3rd highest budget in the Chamipnship and won it. We had the 4th/5th highest (St J and D Utd I think started the season on more but we may have raised ours after we had the good start) in the SPFL and got 3rd. Even for the cup game you can say that Hibs budget was larger than Hearts budget this season.

[H2]

Cannot really be bothered getting into the discussion in general H2, just one question for you. The last few words of yours I've highlighted, would you be willing to say that said statement applies both on and off the park and relates not only to the way fans support the team/management but how the team performs because the placement of the words positive and negative applies equally to both ?

Yes.

Though I am not a believer that silky passing football is always positive, the teams performance resulting in scoring more goals than the other team is the ultimate.

[Morgan]

its good for hmfc that the vermin are in the championship next season as the cookie monster owns neilson

 

Too many years with Terry Waite.

 

You typed that? Really?

[Smith&Weston]

Did have to laugh at this:

 

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?311787-Lets-not-forget&p=4705151#post4705151

 

While both those games are a black mark on Robbie's tenure, to quote that we have "nothing on them" is laughable.

 

I wish I had only just seen my team win a Scottish Cup for the first time since 1902, seen my rivals lift the cup 3 times and twice contribute to that by hibsing it 4v0 and 5v1 and most importantly looking forward to being a championship team for the next 5 years.

 

Our time will come again. Hopefully sooner rather than later and if anything that result on Sat will make our management more determined to win something.

 

i don't think Craig Levein has won anything in his career so that will be eating away at him.

[Arthur Morgan]

Of course that's how they would react because they all know deep down and we all know that no Scottish Cup win will ever top what we did to them on 19th May 2012, the most important Edinburgh Derby in history. Their desperate attempts to comfort themselves here proves that imo.

[Lambo85]

 

 

We should have seen the SC tie out against Hibs.  We didn't.  We were awful in the first half of the replay, but did everything but score in the second half, so Neilson addressed the issues at half time (maybe that was too late, and he did, presumably, set the direction of play in the first half).

 

 

 

Why did he set the team up in the narrow formation in the first place? He has tried that narrow formation before against Hibs where we are playing with no proper wingers and it didnt work. Why did he then make the same mistake and again have to change it at half time.

 

Evidence that Neilson is in fact not learning!

[RussAsia]

I just can't fathom why a section of fans on here keep being so critical of Robbie (And Levein) so much.

 

We (the board) planned for two years in Championship....amazingly won it at canter. With Rangers/Hibs there in what is probably the hardest Championship in years.

 

Season just passed we aimed at top six, easily got third and Euro football next season. Ok we were poor in the cups.

 

It seems, to me, that season in the Championship has either turned folks heads or attracted a load of gloryhunting folk to this forum. Folk who expect us to dominate every game and win by two or three (min) goals....starting to sound like Celtic & The Rangers fans.

 

People will no doubt disagree with but this is my opinion.

 

I'll admit I want Neilson gone.. I've tried to analyse it and for me it comes down to this..

 

I was delighted with the Championship winning season (albeit not all games).. I am happy enough with 3rd although this is where I expected to finish..

 

To me I guess it all comes down to his record with Hibs.. the season in the Championship we sneaked the first derby victory then failed to win in the next 3 including a poor loss where the team didn't seem to know what it was doing tactics wise.. Then this season we were the team in the higher league and threw it away at Tynecastle before losing (it was made all the worse by Hibs going on and winning the cup)..

 

I expect my Hearts teams to go out and give it everything against Hibs and it seems that just doesn't happen.. They are hungrier than us from the first whistle.. Neilson should have seen this from the first game and adjusted his tactics.. Instead he made the same mistakes in the next 5 derbies..

 

To make it worse he shows us against Aberdeen in the cup game that he knows how to get his players to raise their game and just chooses not to for other games.. So then the shocking performances away just serve to build the case against him including some of the home games at the end of the season..

 

Don't really understand the poster who said people want him gone for non footballing reasons.. It's definitely for football reasons that I want him gone..

 

This season we finished 3rd.. if we are to continue improving we need to finish 2nd which is the minimum i expect from next season.. finish 3rd and we are stagnating and he needs replaced.. finish 4th and we going backwards and if that is on the cards he shouldn't see out the season..

Edited May 25, 2016 by RussAsia

[Haken]

Why did he set the team up in the narrow formation in the first place? He has tried that narrow formation before against Hibs where we are playing with no proper wingers and it didnt work. Why did he then make the same mistake and again have to change it at half time.

 

Evidence that Neilson is in fact not learning!

IMO, it's because Neilson tries to neutralise opponents rather than letting them worry about us.  That's always been my bugbear with Neilson - too much respect given to the opposing team.