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The loss of Sow


A_A wehatethehibs

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A_A wehatethehibs

I know people have talked about how we have been in poorer form 2nd half of the season.

 

In hindsight, despite the fact that we got a phenomenal offer for him which couldn't be turned down, I don't think there can be much doubt about the fact that the loss of sow was the story of our season. If he had been playing in that hibs tie the result would have been different. As would have been the end result in the league, I believe even if we weren't challenging Celtic, we would certainly have been closer to Aberdeen.

 

I'm not one for making excuses but if you look at the way we were before he left and after you have to say this made a massive impact on our performances. Without him we have just not had the same goal threat, we have scored fewer goals overall.

 

The last 2 games case in point, vs Motherwell with sow we won 6-0, and vs Celtic with sow we got a 2-2 draw, with him scoring in both games, us scoring 8 in total. Without sow, they have both beaten us in the last 2 matches, us scoring 1.

 

You have to look at 3rd as being a good start back in the top flight overall, but equally it is absolutely fair to comment that there is room for improvement and some big gaps to fill up front. juanma and Walker are OK but need to improve, dauda, Reilly and Nicholson are just not coming close to chipping in with anywhere near enough goals so for me we need 3 new players in the attacking areas who can get us minimum 10 goals/assists each in the season 2016/17. Easier said than done.

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Jambof3tornado

The money we got was great but we never really got enough out of his replacement who showed yesterday what he can do when he fancies it!

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jambomjm74

The sale of sow cost us the cup game vs hibs a great chance of a Scottish cup final and a chance of 2nd place... Hindsight is a wonderful thing... Was it worth the money, no as either a Scottish cup final or 2nd place would have covered it.

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skinnybob72

I said at the time that the sale of Sow was a clear sign of 'profit before success' where he was sat in the stand - while still a Hearts player - during the cup game against Hibs. We have reaped what we have sown since that time. As a selling club these things happen sadly, but it is what it is and that's where we are.

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stevie1874

Our management really need to pull another rabbit from the hat as the strikers we have now never look likely to score or even trouble defences on a regular basis.

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He should have played against Hibs. After all the hype about how we had negotiated for him to be sold after the game we looked weak by not playing him. Hibs couldn't have poured forward they way they did in the second half whilst the threat of his pace was there.

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A_A wehatethehibs

Our management really need to pull another rabbit from the hat as the strikers we have now never look likely to score or even trouble defences on a regular basis.

That's why I think "the way Robbie sets the team out" argument as being the de facto reason for any bad result is slightly ridiculous, at the end of the day he doesn't have enough faith in our attacking players to play that type of high risk attacking football.

 

That lack of faith in our attackers and cautious approach is wholly justified as they have missed far too many opportunities over the course of the season, if you look at the facts.

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Mikey1874

That's why I think "the way Robbie sets the team out" argument as being the de facto reason for any bad result is slightly ridiculous, at the end of the day he doesn't have enough faith in our attacking players to play that type of high risk attacking football.

 

That lack of faith in our attackers and cautious approach is wholly justified as they have missed far too many opportunities over the course of the season, if you look at the facts.

The sort of analysis missing on here.

 

Agree. We have played a lot of exciting football under Neilson albeit a lot of turgid stuff too. Need more pace in team. Hoping it will come.

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Hawick Jambo

The sort of analysis missing on here.

Agree. We have played a lot of exciting football under Neilson albeit a lot of turgid stuff too. Need more pace in team. Hoping it will come.

V much this.

 

The best Hearts teams I've witnessed had players with pace up front, something we are sorely lacking.

 

Personally I'd keep Reilly as someone who may develop and get rid of Juanma and Duada. Aside from some individual occasional cameos they have both in my opinion disappointed.

 

I know we are unlikely to see another Robbo anytime soon, but what I would give for an Adam, De Vries or even a Hamilton.

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We need more pace in team.

Bingo, I was thinking this yesterday it's the main thing we lack in the team as well as some left footers in attack the team just looks unbalanced.

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mattyw_1874

That's why I think "the way Robbie sets the team out" argument as being the de facto reason for any bad result is slightly ridiculous, at the end of the day he doesn't have enough faith in our attacking players to play that type of high risk attacking football.

 

That lack of faith in our attackers and cautious approach is wholly justified as they have missed far too many opportunities over the course of the season, if you look at the facts.

This is exactly where I am. Our current attacking options do not inspire me at all. Juanma is too slow, Nicholson hasn't kicked a ball since January, Walkers blowing hot and cold and Reiley hasn't been given a chance.

 

Sow had pace in behind,was capable of beating a player and was strong on the ball. He single handedly got us 10 yards further up the park and had an end product when he got their.

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Getintaethem

V much this.

The best Hearts teams I've witnessed had players with pace up front, something we are sorely lacking.

Personally I'd keep Reilly as someone who may develop and get rid of Juanma and Duada. Aside from some individual occasional cameos they have both in my opinion disappointed.

I know we are unlikely to see another Robbo anytime soon, but what I would give for an Adam, De Vries or even a Hamilton.

I think it's a pity we'll lose Duada, he's taken a couple of months to settle in, but when he's came on in the last two games you can see glimpses of the very good player that he is.

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AlimOzturk

Sow wasn't actually scouted by Hearts. He was recommended to us by Pressely whome had him at Coventry on trial.

 

So the management team have yet to scout a striker who is good enough. Which worries me.

 

Hoping Juanma comes good but I still don't see it.

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer

While losing sow is obviously going to hurt us it has nothing to do with the defence being all over the place, players being played out of position, players bickering with each other etc etc

 

basically this is similar to pallardo and gomis

 

a few folk spot ahead of the curve that great servants as they were they would struggle up a level

 

these folk were shouted down and classed as nutters pant wetter etc and gomis was still the greatest midfielder in 30 years, pallardo was such a genius he didn't need to run

 

next stage is that opinion starts to shift and the nutters look like they might have a point

 

Then lots of excuses made for the players

 

Then almost everyone agrees and everyone pretends they always called it right

 

with Robbie at the moment we are transitioning between the "they're just pant Wetters" to the excuse stage

 

Basically the sow factor is relevant but doesn't go one tenth of the way of answering the many questions more and more folk are having about Robbie

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A_A wehatethehibs

Sow wasn't actually scouted by Hearts. He was recommended to us by Pressely whome had him at Coventry on trial.

 

So the management team have yet to scout a striker who is good enough. Which worries me.

 

Hoping Juanma comes good but I still don't see it.

As I said in the OP, with strikers it's easier said than done. You have to look at the strong recruitment in the spine, Alexander, ozturk, Rossi, Buaben, djoum, kitchen, cowie - we have great strength in the middle of the pitch, now we need the final few pieces of the puzzle to generate the sparks up front. Thw management team got it spot on addressing the spine first, but i think all are in agreement that we have a big transfer window ahead. Wouldnt surprise me to see 2 strikers and 2 wingers joining.

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Truth is Dauda had the potential to be as good. Showed yesterday and at Ross county that there is quality there.

 

I guess the mentality of a loan signing can be difficult to predict but Dauda could have used us to showcase himself to the English market.

 

I don't really understand why Dauda didn't do more for us.

 

With hindsight 2 derbies as a couple of his first games probably wasn't ideal. Also we should probably have just played Sow in the first game. What a lot of grief would have been saved - not that he actually showed anything in any derby to date to be fair.

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I never believe in one man teams but Sow was a vital cog.

 

Dauda isn't good enough overall imo but his goal yesterday was a snippet of what could make a huge difference to Hearts...real pace and a quality finisher.

 

Sow had all ingredients and made a massive difference to how we made the transition from defence to suddenly being in dangerous areas to hurt the opposition.

 

We simply don't have that at the moment.

 

It makes a massive difference when you have a player who can hold the ball up or equally protect the ball and take men on himself.

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A_A wehatethehibs

While losing sow is obviously going to hurt us it has nothing to do with the defence being all over the place, players being played out of position, players bickering with each other etc etc

 

basically this is similar to pallardo and gomis

 

a few folk spot ahead of the curve that great servants as they were they would struggle up a level

 

these folk were shouted down and classed as nutters pant wetter etc and gomis was still the greatest midfielder in 30 years, pallardo was such a genius he didn't need to run

 

next stage is that opinion starts to shift and the nutters look like they might have a point

 

Then lots of excuses made for the players

 

Then almost everyone agrees and everyone pretends they always called it right

 

with Robbie at the moment we are transitioning between the "they're just pant Wetters" to the excuse stage

 

Basically the sow factor is relevant but doesn't go one tenth of the way of answering the many questions more and more folk are having about Robbie

Don't see the relevance of pallardo and gomis, both of whom have already been replaced with better players, in this thread.

 

You've made no comment at all about the lack of quality we have in the attacking areas post-sow (thread subject matter), which ties a managers hands in the way he sets the team out, how is he supposed to justify playing attacking football and "setting us out" to go and smash all spfl opponents 4-0 when he doesn't have reliable attacking players?

 

The defence made mistakes yesterday but over the season have been outstanding despite injuries to Paterson, ozturk, and Rossi ruling them out for various periods. Think we are on 16 or 17 clean sheets for the season. Defence is definitely not the problem.

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer

Don't see the relevance of pallardo and gomis, both of whom have already been replaced with better players, in this thread.

You've made no comment at all about the lack of quality we have in the attacking areas post-sow (thread subject matter), which ties a managers hands in the way he sets the team out, how is he supposed to justify playing attacking football and "setting us out" to go and smash all spfl opponents 4-0 when he doesn't have reliable attacking players?

The defence made mistakes yesterday but over the season have been outstanding despite injuries to Paterson, ozturk, and Rossi ruling them out for various periods. Think we are on 16 or 17 clean sheets for the season. Defence is definitely not the problem.

the defence was definitely one of the problems at parkhead, at home to St Johnstone and yesterday - absolute shambles but for Neil Alexander could have easily lost 5 yesterday

 

the old defence ie the one which Robbie doesn't see as his first choice anymore wasn't a problem

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Too many ifs, buts and maybes

 

What if Sow had stayed but started playing pish and we still lost all the games we lost? We'd be ?1.5mil out of pocket.

If Sow had stayed and we'd won the cup, we'd still be out of pocket due to the prize money being pish.

What if Dauda had turned out to be like Zeefuik and banged in a dozen goals on the way to winning the cup? We'd be well in from the Sow money and the prize money.

 

All perfectly feasible situations that may have happened. 

 

Getting ?1.5mil for a player with 5 months left on his contract was the right thing to do.

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A_A wehatethehibs

Too many ifs, buts and maybes

 

What if Sow had stayed but started playing pish and we still lost all the games we lost? We'd be ?1.5mil out of pocket.

If Sow had stayed and we'd won the cup, we'd still be out of pocket due to the prize money being pish.

What if Dauda had turned out to be like Zeefuik and banged in a dozen goals on the way to winning the cup? We'd be well in from the Sow money and the prize money.

 

All perfectly feasible situations that may have happened.

 

Getting ?1.5mil for a player with 5 months left on his contract was the right thing to do.

Don't see any if or but about it, we have been a poorer side since sow left.

 

I agree it was the correct decision to take the money, but I still believe it's fair to point to his departure as the turning point in the season from a team performance point of view.

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Too many ifs, buts and maybes

 

What if Sow had stayed but started playing pish and we still lost all the games we lost? We'd be ?1.5mil out of pocket.

If Sow had stayed and we'd won the cup, we'd still be out of pocket due to the prize money being pish.

What if Dauda had turned out to be like Zeefuik and banged in a dozen goals on the way to winning the cup? We'd be well in from the Sow money and the prize money.

 

All perfectly feasible situations that may have happened.

 

Getting ?1.5mil for a player with 5 months left on his contract was the right thing to do.

Completely agree with all you've said but I'd sacrifice the cash for a cup win!

 

Although I still doubt it would have happened if he stayed.

 

He wanted to go. We wanted the tremendous cash on offer. Pretty good decision in all honesty!

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colinmaroon

Was Sow injured when we had that bad run before the turn of the year?

 

 

Just wondered as his absence has been as much of a "difference" since he left.

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Anyone who thinks the club is now, or will be in the near future, in the position to turn down 7 figure deals for players with less than 6 Months on their contracts is deluding themselves.

 

I would have played him in the cup game tbh and said so at the time, as he was still our player, but it was hardly a surprise we didn't. We lost him at a bad time as we didn't have time to get folk in and up to speed but it was the right thing for the club to do to sell him.

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From London Hearts:

Games with Sow

P27 W14 D8 L5 (51% win)

 

Games without Sow:

P8 W5 D1 L2 (62% win)

 

 

:kirk:

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alex young hero

To be honest I've still not got over us selling Alex Young to Everton.

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A_A wehatethehibs

From London Hearts:

Games with Sow

P27 W14 D8 L5 (51% win)

 

Games without Sow:

P8 W5 D1 L2 (62% win)

 

 

:kirk:

Is that stats from during the whole time sow was at hearts?

 

We have lost 6 games from 14 since he left, 7 if you include the 2-2 vs hibs as a loss which most of us do!

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Is that stats from during the whole time sow was at hearts?

 

We have lost 6 games from 14 since he left, 7 if you include the 2-2 vs hibs as a loss which most of us do!

Just this season, if I'm reading the website correctly (and it doesn't include the last couple of games either)

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socrates82

To be honest I've still not got over us selling Alex Young to Everton.

Colin Cameron to Wolves for me. Never thought we'd get another central mid like that. Then Levein brought Hartley in!

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jimmy the jambo

Colin Cameron to Wolves for me. Never thought we'd get another central mid like that. Then Levein brought Hartley in!

Magic Mike Galloway to Celtic & don't talk about Scott Crabbe to UTD.

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Too many ifs, buts and maybes

 

What if Sow had stayed but started playing pish and we still lost all the games we lost? We'd be ?1.5mil out of pocket.

If Sow had stayed and we'd won the cup, we'd still be out of pocket due to the prize money being pish.

What if Dauda had turned out to be like Zeefuik and banged in a dozen goals on the way to winning the cup? We'd be well in from the Sow money and the prize money.

 

All perfectly feasible situations that may have happened. 

 

Getting ?1.5mil for a player with 5 months left on his contract was the right thing to do.

 

The gate receipts alone would have just about made up for it though.

 

I'll happily be corrected, but the way I understand it , the semi final receipts are pooled and split between the 4 participants.The final money is evenly split between the two finalists.

 

Think there was a total of 80,000 or so for the two semis. Average ticket price; conservative guess at  ?30 ? That's ?600,000 each, less I'd imagine, certain operating costs

For the final they should net around ?800,000 less those same costs.

 

Not a lot difference between that total and what we got for Sow.

 

And,........... before anyone says it, I'm well aware of the uncle/aunty/ baws argument.

Personally, I'd wish we'd taken the chance and kept him.

 

.

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Jambos1983

Anyone who thinks the club is now, or will be in the near future, in the position to turn down 7 figure deals for players with less than 6 Months on their contracts is deluding themselves.

 

I would have played him in the cup game tbh and said so at the time, as he was still our player, but it was hardly a surprise we didn't. We lost him at a bad time as we didn't have time to get folk in and up to speed but it was the right thing for the club to do to sell him.

Not one person has suggested we should have turned it down

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Tokyo Drifter

Think we were right to take the money for Sow, though the point remains that you're never going to win the league if you don't have a 20 goal a season striker. If he'd stayed he might have hit that. I think Robbie/Levein/Budge took the view that we were probably going to qualify for Europe whether he stayed or not but also weren't going to win the title if he stayed, so better to bank the money and continue the re-building. They can't have known that Dauda would be a dud - certainly not on last year's experience with Zeefuik, who was a great loan signing.

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To be honest I've still not got over us selling Alex Young to Everton.

[/qu

ote]Been told a few times the guys that remember him at Everton still idolise him.

ps I've still not got over Willie Hamilton going to the lochenders!

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colinmaroon

To be honest I've still not got over us selling Alex Young to Everton.

 

 

I'll add Dave MacKay to that!

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Fort Vallance

That's why I think "the way Robbie sets the team out" argument as being the de facto reason for any bad result is slightly ridiculous, at the end of the day he doesn't have enough faith in our attacking players to play that type of high risk attacking football.

 

That lack of faith in our attackers and cautious approach is wholly justified as they have missed far too many opportunities over the course of the season, if you look at the facts.

The attacking players he signed ?

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Sow was a massive loss. That being said, kudos to the coaching staff and set-up for attracting a player of that quality in the first place. Doubtful we were ever going to keep when he was fully fit,

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