Wingers.

[ycj]

When was the last time we seen a winger play directly against his marker, get to the byline and get the ball in the box? Maybe I'm spoilt watching Colquhoun tearing down the right wing  with ease, and delivering for Clark and Robbo.

We have good wingers in Walker, Nicholson and King (when here ), but they cut inside more than often?  We had Cowie as a make shift wide right winger / midfielder,! The young Celtic  lad  Tierney was more like a winger for them, and he was left back! The most dangerous ball to defend is a cut back from the byline. Tynecastle is a tight pitch, and the way we play, make it even tighter.

[JamboJen]

When was the last time we seen a winger play directly against his marker, get to the byline and get the ball in the box? Maybe I'm spoilt watching Colquhoun tearing down the right wing with ease, and delivering for Clark and Robbo.

We have good wingers in Walker, Nicholson and King (when here ), but they cut inside more than often? We had Cowie as a make shift wide right winger / midfielder,! The young Celtic lad Tierney was more like a winger for them, and he was left back! The most dangerous ball to defend is a cut back from the byline. Tynecastle is a tight pitch, and the way we play, make it even tighter.

I just said much the same in the Experience thread. Was a notable difference when Paterson came on and actually wanted to get down the wing and put crosses in. It's probably the nation are we seriously lack because it means our attacks are very obvious and easy to read and nullify.

[Texia]

Walker I would say isn't a winger now more an attacking midfielder.

 

Nicholson and King are good at running at defences but frustratingly 9/10 times have no end product be it a cross or shot.

 

Wingers is a position we could do with improving for next season.

[duncan]

Walker I would say isn't a winger now more an attacking midfielder.

 

Nicholson and King are good at running at defences but frustratingly 9/10 times have no end product be it a cross or shot.

 

Wingers is a position we could do with improving for next season.

We signed swanson and he never got the chance, so i doubt bringing in another winger would do much good would rather see zanata get more game time till the end of the season and see if we could maybe play him next season. I also think our set pieces are very poor compared to everyone else in this league. Surely with the height we have in our team neilson would be loving the chance to play well worked set plays. I personally dont see what they are doing in these triple training sesions tbh other than passing it from one end of the pitch to the other in the wrong direction.

 

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[amadjambo]

When was the last time we seen a winger play directly against his marker, get to the byline and get the ball in the box? Maybe I'm spoilt watching Colquhoun tearing down the right wing with ease, and delivering for Clark and Robbo.

We have good wingers in Walker, Nicholson and King (when here ), but they cut inside more than often? We had Cowie as a make shift wide right winger / midfielder,! The young Celtic lad Tierney was more like a winger for them, and he was left back! The most dangerous ball to defend is a cut back from the byline. Tynecastle is a tight pitch, and the way we play, make it even tighter.

Walker away to Killie in the LC earlier this season. His cross was a thing of beauty. Sadly we don't see out wingers put crosses in very often as I'm struggling to remember another instance this season.

[ycj]

Aberdeen have Hayes and Mcginn, a lot of there goals come from the wings, ball in the box. Even H1b5 play with one, Boyle, he's not the best but he's quick. Fans love to see a winger take a man on and get it in the box. Oh for a Bobby Prentice or Neil Mcann  (1st time) on the wing.

[hhgh5101]

Iv just kind of dived into this thread ...but as for wingers john colqhoun was a absolute legend Nicholson and walker could learn so much just by watching old vids of the guy ,he was absolutely fantastic ,really direct ,fast ,scored goals ,one drop of the shoulder and away ..most of the time got a decent cross into the box for big sandy, Ian Baird etc, knock downs for robbo or Crabbe ,just a real top class winger who never got the recognition international wise he deserved ,and a travesty at that!

 

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[Glottis]

I think due to the tight pitch, we choose not to go wide.

[HMFC 86]

When was the last time we seen a winger play directly against his marker, get to the byline and get the ball in the box? Maybe I'm spoilt watching Colquhoun tearing down the right wing with ease, and delivering for Clark and Robbo.

We have good wingers in Walker, Nicholson and King (when here ), but they cut inside more than often? We had Cowie as a make shift wide right winger / midfielder,! The young Celtic lad Tierney was more like a winger for them, and he was left back! The most dangerous ball to defend is a cut back from the byline. Tynecastle is a tight pitch, and the way we play, make it even tighter.

Yep, don't understand it. Our wingers always cut in. In yesterday's game, the sellik 18 yard line was so packed and so many times we just tried to go sideways along it. Walker didn't want to take on his man. So many times this resulted in a sellik tackle and break away

[BrellierBoy]

Walker not quick enough to beat a man.

Nicholson too powderpuff full backs just brush him aside.

King not very assured with ball at his feet and tends to lose it more often than not.

 

On an aside, Walker and Nicholson showed no desire yesterday. Think they both believe they are better than they are. I wouldnt really care if we lost any of them.

[Jambof3tornado]

I think due to the tight pitch, we choose not to go wide.

Good wingers dont need big wide pitches to pass a defender though. I know a wide pitch gives more space but the width of our pitch has been enough to see other teams winger go beyond their man, hayes, ainsworth etc etc.

[mr fox]

Neil McCann .....Suso .... Driver

[Jambof3tornado]

Neil McCann .....Suso .... Driver

All managed beyond their man on our pitch.

[Son Of Anarchy]

Its frustrating. Paterson made a big difference when he came on. An in form Nicholson is ideal but the key words are in form.

[Paris 84]

It might also be an idea that when do actually play with a winger(s), that we play them on their favoured side. There was a time when when Sam got the ball you could feel the anticipation in the crowd as if something might happen. RN's insistence on continually playing him wide right has knocked the confidence completely out of him. Now I'm sad to say that if RN does actually see him as a right winger/midfielder (and not on the left), then we need to get a better player in as he'll never do on the right. Never!! Which leads me to my second point on wingers.

 

The last few months have also shown the decision to loan Billy King out to anybody, never mind Rangers, as being stupidity of the highest order. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that BK is far from the finished article but he was always consistently one of our best threats off the bench and his assist numbers were always high. You don't just give away players who threaten the opposition. You might sell those players if the price is right, you certainly don't give them away for free and continue to pay his wages. I can only hope that the continued playing of Sam Nicholson on the right is due to the calamitous decision to loan out Billy King. If so, that decision has cost us two effective attacking options in the second half of the season.

 

Hopefully our management team learn from this.

[Jambof3tornado]

It might also be an idea that when do actually play with a winger(s), that we play them on their favoured side. There was a time when when Sam got the ball you could feel the anticipation in the crowd as if something might happen. RN's insistence on continually playing him wide right has knocked the confidence completely out of him. Now I'm sad to say that if RN does actually see him as a right winger/midfielder (and not on the left), then we need to get a better player in as he'll never do on the right. Never!! Which leads me to my second point on wingers.

 

The last few months have also shown the decision to loan Billy King out to anybody, never mind Rangers, as being stupidity of the highest order. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that BK is far from the finished article but he was always consistently one of our best threats off the bench and his assist numbers were always high. You don't just give away players who threaten the opposition. You might sell those players if the price is right, you certainly don't give them away for free and continue to pay his wages. I can only hope that the continued playing of Sam Nicholson on the right is due to the calamitous decision to loan out Billy King. If so, that decision has cost us two effective attacking options in the second half of the season.

 

Hopefully our management team learn from this.

Allowing king to go on loan must be one of the stupidest decisions of the season.

[amadjambo]

Sam Nicholson still hasn't beat a man since the first Hibs game. Not one.

[ycj]

Nicholson's form  slumped dramatically after King went on loan. The  competition for the place in the team kept them both on there toes.

[world_3]

I read somewhere a couple of months ago (Guardian????) that wingers are out of fashion these days because statistical analysis has shown that the ratio of goals scored from attempts made is a lot lower for crosses from the wing than it is from cutting inside or going through the middle.

 

Managers are playing the percentage game and doing what on average gets the most goals.

[kila]

I'd rather Cowie started ahead of Nicholson because at least he can put a good ball in the box and take decent set pieces.

 

 

Worrying what's happened to Nicholson.

 

 

I read somewhere a couple of months ago (Guardian????) that wingers are out of fashion these days because statistical analysis has shown that the ratio of goals scored from attempts made is a lot lower for crosses from the wing than it is from cutting inside or going through the middle.

 

Managers are playing the percentage game and doing what on average gets the most goals.

 

 

Not read the article, but I imagine goals scored as a result of a cross will be high. Such as, a defender trying to clear it and it falls into the path of someone on the edge of the box and they strike it.

[Williejimieson30yarder]

Iv just kind of dived into this thread ...but as for wingers john colqhoun was a absolute legend Nicholson and walker could learn so much just by watching old vids of the guy ,he was absolutely fantastic ,really direct ,fast ,scored goals ,one drop of the shoulder and away ..most of the time got a decent cross into the box for big sandy, Ian Baird etc, knock downs for robbo or Crabbe ,just a real top class winger who never got the recognition international wise he deserved ,and a travesty at that!

 

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One of my favourite players of all time. When we sold him we couldn't replace him. Team only looked as good when we signed him back. Played more as a central striker in his last season under JJ.

Great player. Wish we had him now.

[Spencer]

I'd be seriously questioning whether Walker, Nicholson and King are the great talents that we're continually told they are on here.

 

I watched Walker closely on Saturday against this seemingly shite Celtic side. I'd say he's still got an awful long way to go.

[Jambos1983]

Walker was poor on Saturday but he's a cracking player. He's not a winger these days though. It's an area we need to be looking to address in the summer along with some strikers

[Spencer]

Walker was poor on Saturday but he's a cracking player. He's not a winger these days though. It's an area we need to be looking to address in the summer along with some strikers

Is Walker really as good as we've become to believe he is?

[Livvyjambo]

Nicholson and Paterson will both be sold and of all the players that came through from the academy a few years back it may be we are left wth only walker although would not surprise if he is also for the off. But don't worry they will be replaced by some foreigners again . Sam needs some help to get his confidence back which looks to be at a low just and walker had a poor game on sat but needs greater consistency in his attitude

[scott herbertson]

Is Walker really as good as we've become to believe he is?

 

 

Yes

[Big Moysey]

IMO our wingers are being asked to defend first and foremost. This is detracting from their form. I really don't understand the clamour for Billy King, he is not good enough to make either ours or Rangers starting 11s yet. We could do with another quick winger for our squad

[Spencer]

Yes

On that basis I look forward to him showing it in games against Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and potentially Hibs next season.

[scott herbertson]

On that basis I look forward to him showing it in games against Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and potentially Hibs next season.

 

 

So do I - should be great to watch him doing it again

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSzV02gkYEY

[Jambof3tornado]

Is Walker really as good as we've become to believe he is?

I've said for a few seasons that Walkers stamina seems to be a bit lacking and its this that holds him back.

[The Internet]

On that basis I look forward to him showing it in games against Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and potentially Hibs next season.

 

Has already scored important goals against all of those in his career, and was instrumental in setting up the winner against Aberdeen this season. I'm also looking forward to watching him do more of the same. 

[tian447]

So do I - should be great to watch him doing it again

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSzV02gkYEY

 

Great goal.

 

Great celebration

[amadjambo]

Walker is a fantastic player but playing him up front doesn't make effective use of his talents. I also wonder if he is fully fit at the moment, or as someone else pointed out, he may have stamina issues. Either way, cracking player and hopefully with us for a few years yet.

[Cruyff Turn]

I know Walker started out life in Hearts first team as a winger but i don't believe he can play that position now. Firstly I don't think he has the pace. I'm not saying he is slow but i don't think he is quick enough to out pace a full back like Shay Logan of Aberdeen or Kieren Tierney of Celtic, whom to be fair are really quick. Still though I don't think he has the pace like McCann or Driver at their best or the power of Skacel.

 

Secondly I think he would be wasted on the wing. For me Jamie Walkers strengths are his movement, his control, creativity and shooting abilities. He is for me a second striker or a number 10, a free role suits him best.

 

It's a good thread and imo highlights our biggest attacking weakness. Aberdeen score alot of goals from crosses into the box we score most of our goals from set-pieces or from outside the box or central positions. Our defensive record is better than theirs as is our goalscoring record this season yet they are second and we are third. Why? Because they've won more games simply by the service provided to Rooney and Church from wide positions. Juanma may get slaughtered on here from time to time but I bet if we played with two quality wingers with Walker as second striker and put in quality deliveries Juanma would score alot of goals.

 

It's ok saying bring King back and that Nicholsons a good player and Walker can play on the wing, but to be honest none of them are probably good enough just now at least. King is probably the most natural winger of the three but really is he good enough? He can't get his game in the Championship and as much as I like the lad I think it's fair to say his days are numbered. Nicholson is a good player, he has the potential to be a really good player but he has rarely produced this season and has lost his way a little but has been played more as an inside forward than a winger and Walker as i've said above isn't a winger. So in reality we have very little in options from wide positions and we have weakened that position or an option in that position by letting go of King. We also have no balance on the left side of the pitch. We have one natural player in a wide left position and thats Oshaniwa and that says alot. Usually Nicholson plays on the left but being right footed wants to cut inside which means he isn't putting in crosses.

 

In conclusion next season we definately need to resolve this issue and we can only do that by firstly signing a left winger and certainly strengthening in both wide positions.

[wavydavy]

Walker I would say isn't a winger now more an attacking midfielder.

 

Nicholson and King are good at running at defences but frustratingly 9/10 times have no end product be it a cross or shot.

 

Wingers is a position we could do with improving for next season.

 

Nicholson and King both flatter to deceive they have no real pace and Nicholson particularly cuts across the pitch most of the time because he does not have the pace or upper body strength to take him beyond defenders.

 

They are both very easily eased of the ball which incidentally is not something only they lack it seems to be right throughout out team nowadays. Perry Kitchen is about the only player not easily pushed off the ball.

 

If the rumours about Nicholson are true re wanting to go to Aberdeen then he would be no great miss in my humble opinion. King is no better and I just can't see him coming back from Rangers a better player and I think Robbie will think the same and he will be surplus to requirement also.

 

I would imagine Zanatta will be getting a bit more game time next season but I would like to see a new wide player with real pace who wants to take on fullbacks and go beyond them and put crosses in.

[Tokyo Drifter]

When was the last time we seen a winger play directly against his marker, get to the byline and get the ball in the box? Maybe I'm spoilt watching Colquhoun tearing down the right wing  with ease, and delivering for Clark and Robbo.

We have good wingers in Walker, Nicholson and King (when here ), but they cut inside more than often?  We had Cowie as a make shift wide right winger / midfielder,! The young Celtic  lad  Tierney was more like a winger for them, and he was left back! The most dangerous ball to defend is a cut back from the byline. Tynecastle is a tight pitch, and the way we play, make it even tighter.

 

Walker for Juanma's second against the Sheep. Take your point though.

 

Paterson is pretty decent at getting crosses in (see separate thread about 3-5-2/wingbacks).

 

On the same point, who was the last forward we had who was good in the air? We don't score many headed goals these days.

[ycj]

probably Callum Paterson!  He would probably get as many goals up front against Juanma, Reilly . and anyone else we try up there.

Sandy Clark was the best target man I have seen at Tynecastle.

[Joe Hearts]

Billy King didn't even get on for Sevco at the weekend!

[Seymour M Hersh]

I'd rather Cowie started ahead of Nicholson because at least he can put a good ball in the box and take decent set pieces.

 

 

Worrying what's happened to Nicholson.

 

 

 

 

Not read the article, but I imagine goals scored as a result of a cross will be high. Such as, a defender trying to clear it and it falls into the path of someone on the edge of the box and they strike it.

 

Hopefully he's going through the phase a lot of youngsters do. It's his 2nd full season and he's gone backwards in the last half of it. Most young players I've watched over the years have done this. The ones that are quality kick on in year 3 and hopefully Sam will do this.

[Lambo85]

Been saying for months now that Sam Nicholson is a one trick pony. Just wants to cut inside 99 times out of 100 and its becoming very frustrating to watch.