alyp Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 This is just fantasy so everyone suspend reality just for a wee while........ I was listening this morning to the radio talking about the minimum 130m Norwich will get for promotion to the EPL, rising to 230m if they avoid relegation next year. Just for the sake of fantasy imagine that we were somehow swapped with Norwich. We keep the same stadium, players, attendences etc we just, using some Trading Places style Hollywood magic, swapped with Norwich. Could we cope? Would the promise of a guranteed 130m be enough to buy a squad capable of staying in the EPL? Would any of our current players remain? Given the nature of the teams we would be facing what would happen to our attendances? Could they ever support an EPL team? My gut feel is that even spending every penny of the 130m we would likely go down year 1 and spend 2-3 years in the championship but then the parachute payments and increased home gates (?) might mean we get another year in the EPL. Then we would do a 'West Brom' and yo-yo for a few seasons between the EPL and the Championship whilst hoovering up the promotion and parachute money. Over 5 seasons that equates to nearly 500m before merchandising and ticket sales. Surely that would be enough to allow us to continue the West Brom analogy and become a mid table EPL side? As I said it's complete fantasy but the coverage Norwich got today got me thinking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never Let Them Forget Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It's all about the manager/dof just look at Southampton. You could sign 13 10m players and would like to think most would be successful and stay in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 You cant buy 13 ?10m players and also afford their wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgie_Rules Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Its the wages that would be the killer Reckon we could attract 30,000 a week minimum playing in that league with Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc visiting. Based upon our crowds at Murrayfield we could be pushing 35 - 40k. Long term once the sponsorship and tv money comes in we could probably sustain it and survive but would 100% be relegated the first season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewYorkJambo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Given most of the teams that get promoted are better than Hearts, and they often go down, you would have to think we would get relegated, probably finishing bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I think with a ?130M budget carefully spent, avoiding household names and wage thieves and nonsensical marquee signings and staying away from sharks and mercenaries and looking after the finances properly it would be possible to stay up. The problem in that league is clubs who end up with squads who largely don't give a toss about who they are playing for and just want their ?20k to ?40k or more a week without having to sweat too much for it. Avoid as many of those types as you can and get a few decent quality and hungry unknowns on board and you've got a real chance. Its the most overhyped (but superbly marketed) league in the world and the teams around the bottom 3rd aren't usually that good. ?30k a week x 18 is only just around the ?30 million mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmeister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Swansea have attendances similar to Hearts and they seem to be doing OK. The Club has to be run properly, a tick there for Hearts. However I don't think any of our current squad would be good enough to compete at that level just now. As for our current Manager and DOF, let's see what happens next season when we are playing a better quality of team week in week out. It would be nice though to have that problem though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanseajack Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Forget the ?130 million in season one, that is swallowed up by bonuses, stadium improvements, increased wages, agents fees etc. It's not a magic cheque that gets presented with the play off/championship trophy. The Swans didn't go nuts in that first season, we kept the majority of the squad that got us up, spent ?3 million (A club record by some way at the time) on Danny Graham, and it turned out to be good enough, then we built on it, and so on... Season 5 in our Premier League adventure starts in August! The Swans have spent a good chunk of our Premier League money on infrastructure (We started in the Premier League using a public health club as our training hub!), facilities, youth academy etc. plus we are still debt free! All making a far more secure future for the Swans, the board have been absolutely fantastic, and should the worst happen, the future of the club has never been brighter. We have also had a lot of lucky breaks along the way, Roberto Martinez? Brendan Rogers? Michael Laudrup? Michu for ?2 million? (We have had a lot of luck!) But in answer to the question, let's rewind to around 10/12 years ago, who was the bigger club? Heart of Midlothian or Swansea City? Support and Stadium wise, there isn't much in it these days still! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 ?3 million would be enough to build a squad capable of finishing above Sunderland. Woeful team that somehow survive year after year. So yes, ?130m should be more than enough as long as it is spent wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airdriejambo3 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Realistically you could buy the Scotland squad and still have money left for wages,with the first seasons payment, I would like to think that if we went with that squad we would be in with a good shout of staying up first and foremost and improve the squad from that base. Although I could be talking mince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Very possible, however it is all dependent on how the club is ran. Look at QPR V Swansea/ Crystal Palace/ Leicster, even Wigan managed to last a while. Throwing money around isn't everything. I don't think any of our current squad would manage to keep thier place, maybe Pallardo given his pedigree. I think Patersonand Walker would be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Forget the ?130 million in season one, that is swallowed up by bonuses, stadium improvements, increased wages, agents fees etc. It's not a magic cheque that gets presented with the play off/championship trophy. The Swans didn't go nuts in that first season, we kept the majority of the squad that got us up, spent ?3 million (A club record by some way at the time) on Danny Graham, and it turned out to be good enough, then we built on it, and so on... Season 5 in our Premier League adventure starts in August! The Swans have spent a good chunk of our Premier League money on infrastructure (We started in the Premier League using a public health club as our training hub!), facilities, youth academy etc. plus we are still debt free! All making a far more secure future for the Swans, the board have been absolutely fantastic, and should the worst happen, the future of the club has never been brighter. We have also had a lot of lucky breaks along the way, Roberto Martinez? Brendan Rogers? Michael Laudrup? Michu for ?2 million? (We have had a lot of luck!) But in answer to the question, let's rewind to around 10/12 years ago, who was the bigger club? Heart of Midlothian or Swansea City? Support and Stadium wise, there isn't much in it these days still! what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyp Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 Realistically you could buy the Scotland squad and still have money left for wages,with the first seasons payment, I would like to think that if we went with that squad we would be in with a good shout of staying up first and foremost and improve the squad from that base. Although I could be talking mince. That is a scary and very sobering thought. You could buy the entire Scotland squad plus wages for the money Norwich will receive............ And probably then some. When you start considering the implications of a 130m payday it really does put into perspective the financial gulf between the two leagues. I am incredibly proud of the part we have collectively played in financially supporting our club and know how difficult it has been for many to continue to keep up the donations and then you hear about 130m promotion awards and 60m parachute payments. Mind boggling. As someone stated the EPL is the most over hyper league but by god do they know how to market it and get the best bang for their collective buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyp Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 But in answer to the question, let's rewind to around 10/12 years ago, who was the bigger club? Heart of Midlothian or Swansea City? Support and Stadium wise, there isn't much in it these days still! And yet if the GFA continues the continual slide of Scottish football in 10 years time I dread to think how the fortunes will have differed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The average PL wage is around ?45k a week. That's ?2.3m a year per player. Multiply that by a squad of 20-odd, then factor in backroom staff, bonuses, transfer fees etc and it's easy to see where the money goes. As the Jack says, sensible clubs will pile cash into infrastructure because that's a permanent investment. The reason that buying 13 players for ?10m a go is stupid is because in 12 months time you'll find that half of them have been shite and are worth a fraction of what you paid for them. Money down the tubes. Swansea have probably been the perfect model of effective transition from the Championship to the Premier League. Although it stands to reason that one of these days they're going to stumble into a hard season and possibly go down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I think with a ?130M budget carefully spent, avoiding household names and wage thieves and nonsensical marquee signings and staying away from sharks and mercenaries and looking after the finances properly it would be possible to stay up. The problem in that league is clubs who end up with squads who largely don't give a toss about who they are playing for and just want their ?20k to ?40k or more a week without having to sweat too much for it. Avoid as many of those types as you can and get a few decent quality and hungry unknowns on board and you've got a real chance. Its the most overhyped (but superbly marketed) league in the world and the teams around the bottom 3rd aren't usually that good. ?30k a week x 18 is only just around the ?30 million mark No team outside the top 7 is very good. The big problem that league has is that the pay is set up as very high basic wages and so the bonuses are just gravy to these players. How could any player who is not the star of their team make 30k+ per week? Even journeymen get these crazy basic wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 No team outside the top 7 is very good. The big problem that league has is that the pay is set up as very high basic wages and so the bonuses are just gravy to these players. How could any player who is not the star of their team make 30k+ per week? Even journeymen get these crazy basic wages. They're not crazy basic wages in the context of the money clubs receive. If Norwich are making ?130m (or whatever) then it stands to reason that a massive chunk of that cash will flow back to the players. The players and the football is what Sky/BT Sport pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 This talk of ?35-40k crowds to finance wages is very ambitious. Sure we'd probably get a boost in attendances. But in reality we'd likely be favourites for the drop and it's unlikely many "new" fans would stick around in January/February is we're on a run of 8, 9 or 10 losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Easily. Edinburgh is full of middle class families who would buy tickets for the EPL. They won't be staunch Hearts fans but the lure of the league would be huge. Think the Barcelona friendly or how teams like Reading get 30k in the English top league despite being an hour from London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 We could just spend it all on the stadium and a 200ft bronze statue of Dave McKay. The team's good enough for a top 6 finish anyway so no tinkering needed there.....maybe pick up Liam Craig on a free to help rock steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trago13 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The average PL wage is around ?45k a week. That's ?2.3m a year per player. Multiply that by a squad of 20-odd, then factor in backroom staff, bonuses, transfer fees etc and it's easy to see where the money goes. As the Jack says, sensible clubs will pile cash into infrastructure because that's a permanent investment. The reason that buying 13 players for ?10m a go is stupid is because in 12 months time you'll find that half of them have been shite and are worth a fraction of what you paid for them. Money down the tubes. Swansea have probably been the perfect model of effective transition from the Championship to the Premier League. Although it stands to reason that one of these days they're going to stumble into a hard season and possibly go down again. Is that figure correct at ?45k? That seems really high. I'm sure in 2012 it was around ?28k. Absolutely crazy if it's correct (I'm not doubting you btw, just can't believe its that high). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanseajack Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Easily. Edinburgh is full of middle class families who would buy tickets for the EPL. They won't be staunch Hearts fans but the lure of the league would be huge. Think the Barcelona friendly or how teams like Reading get 30k in the English top league despite being an hour from London. Funny you should bring that up, but demand for Swans tickets shot up with Cardiff imploding again. Plenty of families looking to see Premier League football without actually being Swans fans...but if you can get the youngsters hooked, you may have lifelong supporters. It's a big debate down here at the moment regarding expanding the Liberty. We've got a catchment area of pretty much South Wales until Cardiff sort their act out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Easily. Edinburgh is full of middle class families who would buy tickets for the EPL. They won't be staunch Hearts fans but the lure of the league would be huge. Think the Barcelona friendly or how teams like Reading get 30k in the English top league despite being an hour from London. Reading have never averaged over 24k, even when in the Premiership. That drops to around 19k the first season they're relegated and down to 17k the season after that. Using a one-off friendly against a glamour side like Barcelona as some sort of yardstick for our potential attendances isn't accurate at all. It was Barcelona, in brilliant sunshine in the summer, you could pay at the gate, there were non-Hearts fans there to see Barcelona etc etc. Like I said, not the same as mid-February on a Monday night when it's snowing sideways and you've lost the last 8 and the game is live on TV. We'd get a bump from season ticket sales but how many middle class families who weren't staunch Hearts fans are going to keep rocking up and paying at the gate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Is that figure correct at ?45k? That seems really high. I'm sure in 2012 it was around ?28k. Absolutely crazy if it's correct (I'm not doubting you btw, just can't believe its that high). Read an article about six months ago saying so. Assuming it was accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanseajack Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Read an article about six months ago saying so. Assuming it was accurate. The Sky money went up since 2012 so you are probably spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 This talk of ?35-40k crowds to finance wages is very ambitious. Sure we'd probably get a boost in attendances. But in reality we'd likely be favourites for the drop and it's unlikely many "new" fans would stick around in January/February is we're on a run of 8, 9 or 10 losses. This. Blackpool for example, used to sell out every week in the top league and get 2/3k a week now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSTR Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 to put things into perspective, we could win the scottish championship 250 times and still not have that amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Easily. Edinburgh is full of middle class families who would buy tickets for the EPL. They won't be staunch Hearts fans but the lure of the league would be huge. Think the Barcelona friendly or how teams like Reading get 30k in the English top league despite being an hour from London. I don't get the link between middle class families and watching EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I don't get the link between middle class families and watching EPL. It can be quite expensive to watch football , that's any football. A few things spring to mind for me, there's no actual science behind my assumption, but the happy train 05/06 period, I knew a couple of families, Murrayfield dwelling soft Hearts that were bang in to the early Romanov period They quickly dropped it when things went nuts mind you. I think that there's a huge untapped demographic in Edinburgh that would buy in to the EPL rather than Hearts per se. The reasoning behind using Reading as an example earlier was I lived in the town when they left Elm Park and moved to the Majeski. It's mostly a Chelsea/rugby town but when they played in the EPL the town supported the Club in the Premiership. Hearts are on a different level of support from Reading altogether and if interest was comparable the potential crowd could be huge. In addition, Edinburgh is an attractive place to live and the UK's third most flown to city. It would be easy to attract players/mercenaries to an EPL Edinburgh side. I'm more than happy with Hearts at Tynecastle playing in a Scottish set up. Just think people are underestimating the potential of an EPL franchise in Edinburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It can be quite expensive to watch football , that's any football. A few things spring to mind for me, there's no actual science behind my assumption, but the happy train 05/06 period, I knew a couple of families, Murrayfield dwelling soft Hearts that were bang in to the early Romanov period They quickly dropped it when things went nuts mind you. I think that there's a huge untapped demographic in Edinburgh that would buy in to the EPL rather than Hearts per se. The reasoning behind using Reading as an example earlier was I lived in the town when they left Elm Park and moved to the Majeski. It's mostly a Chelsea/rugby town but when they played in the EPL the town supported the Club in the Premiership. Hearts are on a different level of support from Reading altogether and if interest was comparable the potential crowd could be huge. In addition, Edinburgh is an attractive place to live and the UK's third most flown to city. It would be easy to attract players/mercenaries to an EPL Edinburgh side. I'm more than happy with Hearts at Tynecastle playing in a Scottish set up. Just think people are underestimating the potential of an EPL franchise in Edinburgh. We are obsessed with the EPL. We should be looking at leagues in Belguim, Holland, Denmark etc: for comparison. We make things very complicated, these leagues produce good quality club and national sides, yet we come up with all kinds of crazy league set up Until the love in with the EPL ends, we will alway be a sorry side show that is slowly dieing. The people that run our game need to wake up and have a long term plan, instead of bumbling about like a blind man in a brothel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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