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FOH - The Next Phase


iainmac

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I see that new HMFC Board Member Brian Cormack is trying to drive FOH DD's from current 8100 to 10000.

 

Previous attempts to drive the number of DD's up were based around "what FOH could achieve" but now I think we're in a position where we can all look back and see "what FOH has achieved".

 

Clearly, the links between FOH & HMFC are demonstrably strong and the performance on & off the pitch has been beyond most expectations. Fans Rewards has went from concept to reality and FOH also has it's first elected Director - I know only 1 candidate came forward but that's a completely different discussion.

 

Question. Knowing what we all know now, other than personal finances, what is it that stops more people contributing to a monthly DD & is there anymore we can all do to convince others to join up with FOH?

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I personally think it needs to be branded a bit differently.

 

We all understand the original/primary purpose is to repay Ann.

 

But from my perspective I want, and intend, to keep paying it for life. I personally view the payments I make to FOH as being an extra layer of income, a true "membership" of the club, and one which might just help raise our club to higher levels than we might have dared anticipate 2 or 3 years ago.

So without making it look as if we expect fans to subscribe for life or putting pressure on to do so I'd welcome an "opening up" of the purpose of the funds, better clarity about what the money can do over and above, and beyond, the repayment of the Budge loan.

 

I dont think FOH have ever formally discussed payments continuing beyond this, and I think they should. Carefully. Without annoying fans who already feel they will have given enough.

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Bungalow Bill

My understanding is that when FoH own the club, you need to be contributing to be able to vote.

 

That's what fan ownership is, we have to fund the club ourselves, no sugar daddy is going to come and do it.

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Some very important decisions are going to be coming up in the next few years. for example:

 

The stadium and possible relocation. Subscribers will not only contribute financially (which is very important), but could have a voice/vote on which path we take.

Board restructuring is also inevitable (although not as zingy) but fundamental to our future success

Who will we raise a statue for - Romanov or Budge....

 

I think we have to advertise the attractive possibilities for potential subscribers so they know what Ownership really can mean. yes, it comes at a cost, but for a small contribution each month not only do you contribute to all the positives around the club but also to major decision making - which is something (for better or worse) we have just had to sit back and watch over the years. This is our chance.

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

Make it simple Iain. Post a link to the exact part in the webpage, that you can extend your DD or indeed contribute for the first time. I don't remember seeing anything from the FoH site for a while now. I get my payment thank you each month, the communication could be louder.

 

Having said that, I can understand why perhaps it has been scaled back. The fans did a lot over an extended period of time, unfortunately I think many don't fully realise how we need to keep this going.

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The question I have is what is the number of Fans available to pledge. Some research into the Hearts support would reveal how many are not pledging and why. Averaging crowds of around 16k which include kids and OAPs and have 8100 pledging is IMO not to bad. We are on course to meet our obligations to buy the club however maybe if we have a plan to take us from acquisition to sustainability which included pledges it may help generate mor support. What that plan would be Ive no idea but if it included rebuilding the Main Stand and staying put in Tynecastle then who knows.

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I think we're maxed out to be honest.

 

If you weren't going to do it to help save the club then you are never going to do it.

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I think that there should have been an option when purchasing season tickets to ask if fans were contributing and if not try and encourage them to do so.

 

If they are already contyributing then try and get them to up it a bit.

 

They could perhaps have offered some sort of incentive such as a small reduction on the ticket price or money off merchandise etc.

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The question I have is what is the number of Fans available to pledge. Some research into the Hearts support would reveal how many are not pledging and why. Averaging crowds of around 16k which include kids and OAPs and have 8100 pledging is IMO not to bad. We are on course to meet our obligations to buy the club however maybe if we have a plan to take us from acquisition to sustainability which included pledges it may help generate mor support. What that plan would be Ive no idea but if it included rebuilding the Main Stand and staying put in Tynecastle then who knows.

 

Do contributors have to be Hearts Fans as such why not businesses say. I know a lot of the large Supermarkets contribute to good causes so why not the local football club.

 

What is happening to the money that has already been pledged? Is it just sitting in a bank getting hardly any return.

 

Perhaps they should be investing some of the income to try and grow the amount without too much risk of course.

 

I am sure that there are loads of fans out there who will have lots of ideas so why not have a sort of open day with a brainstorming type exercise to get over all these ideas.

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Siphiwe Tshabalala

Just started pledging for the first time, after being in the position to do so.

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Do contributors have to be Hearts Fans as such why not businesses say. I know a lot of the large Supermarkets contribute to good causes so why not the local football club.

 

What is happening to the money that has already been pledged? Is it just sitting in a bank getting hardly any return.

 

Perhaps they should be investing some of the income to try and grow the amount without too much risk of course.

 

I am sure that there are loads of fans out there who will have lots of ideas so why not have a sort of open day with a brainstorming type exercise to get over all these ideas.

Re the money that's already pledge ?1.4m a year for 2 years is being used to rebuild the club then the payback to AB will begin.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Re the money that's already pledge ?1.4m a year for 2 years is being used to rebuild the club then the payback to AB will begin.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for that. So we are spending ?2.8 million on rebuilding the club. What exactly does that mean?

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Thanks for that. So we are spending ?2.8 million on rebuilding the club. What exactly does that mean?

A lot of the work is seen around the ground and some of the unseen work is reported on the Hearts web site like the poor internet set up which was rectified and upgraded by Fans for cost price.

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Thanks for that. So we are spending ?2.8 million on rebuilding the club. What exactly does that mean?

 

This is kind of my point in my post up above.

 

Whilst it is important for transparency as regards what money FOH has raised and where it has been spent. I dont think it helps particularly to get overly bogged down in what exactly it will be spent on in future. At the moment I appreciate that the FOH is unknown and trust needs built.

But for example the repayment of the Budge loan, longer term investment in the academy, stadium maintenance and improvements (potentially part funding a new stand) with the resultant impact that there is more free capital and resources to be spent on the first team...

 

Isnt that enough to convince us?

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Walter Kidd

Longer term investment in the academy is key - we're not in a position to buy any more to be honest, and neither should we.  I know Hearts are really pushing the boundaries on picking up the best youths out there - they have been prolific in the Dunfermline Leagues my lad plays in. 

 

I trust Ann Budge - my other concern is what happens at the end of her time.  We will need to replace with like minded individuals to keep the contributions coming in.

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JamboBornNBred

Its the same down here in the Borders.The Hearts scouts have been checking out the youth teams down here and making sure they are visible.

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Jingle Bells

Could Leaflet addresses with a D/D / SO mandate on its back/front for return, to pick up the non internet uses or those who don't like giving out their bank details on-line and/or find it difficult to get to get down to Tynecastle to fill in a FOH manual S/O..

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Buffalo Bill

Perhaps greater visibility at games is a good idea?  

 

Having stalls with FoH representatives before and after the match at key areas in and around the ground would grab people's attention.

 

The Main Stand entrance/exit, Wheatfield Place/Street, Tynecastle Terrace, stadium concourses would be good shouts.

 

I think the magic 10,000 figure is attainable and I'd love to see us get it. Get some megaphones on the go.

 

 

.

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Just started pledging for the first time, after being in the position to do so.

Welcome.
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Gillsland jack

I think its time to think about this differently....I have my season tickets and contribute monthly to FOH..that my choice as a lifelong Jambo, I know lots of Jambo's that don't go to games and because they don't buy a season ticket feel that its not important for them to just be a FOH members.

 

I would like to see us market the FOH as a membership of your football club, accepting that lots of supporters just can't get to games, family commitments, work etc and encourage people to just sign up to belong to your team, season ticket or not, if you can get to the games then great, however if you can't you can still be valued greatly by the club and your fellow fans by just being a member of the foundation and signing up for that monthly contribution, even if its just a 10 pound DD.

I remember hearing years ago that Barcelona had 130,000 members, the majority could never always get to a game but revenue was raised on the fact that fans loved just buying that membership as their way of showing support to the club.

 

Also as someone pointed out earlier, making it really user friendly, we could put a little cut out coupon in the match programme, on it would be all the sign up and contact info, much in the same way SKY tv get you to introduce a friend to Sky, we could have a little cut out saying introduce your friends to FOH, you just hand it to your pal's and encourage them to sign up next time they sit down in front of their PCs.

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The Treasurer

I think complacency plays a part in the numbers not increasing much.

Initially it was a "call to arms" that we had to do something (ie pledge to FoH) or the club would die

People are now seeing things going well on and off the park so are prepared to "sit back and enjoy" and don't see the urgency or need to do anything.

Highlighting what has been achieved is important but equally, highlighting what CAN be achieved and what still needs to be done (new stand/stadium, better facilities, signing better quality players, retaining the good ones we already have etc).

By listing where the club wants to get to and what still needs to be done it will make people realise that we are only just getting started and a lot more in terms of work and FINANCE is still needed if we want to grow as a club.

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Perhaps greater visibility at games is a good idea?  

 

Having stalls with FoH representatives before and after the match at key areas in and around the ground would grab people's attention.

 

The Main Stand entrance/exit, Wheatfield Place/Street, Tynecastle Terrace, stadium concourses would be good shouts.

 

I think the magic 10,000 figure is attainable and I'd love to see us get it. Get some megaphones on the go.

 

 

.

This was muted before....probably by yourself ?...and is a simple and direct way to gain attention.

Great idea, imo, not everyone is online.

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MR INCREDIBLE

The question I have is what is the number of Fans available to pledge. Some research into the Hearts support would reveal how many are not pledging and why. Averaging crowds of around 16k which include kids and OAPs and have 8100 pledging is IMO not to bad. We are on course to meet our obligations to buy the club however maybe if we have a plan to take us from acquisition to sustainability which included pledges it may help generate mor support. What that plan would be Ive no idea but if it included rebuilding the Main Stand and staying put in Tynecastle then who knows.

Why can't we have a special pledge rate for kids and OAPs at say a fiver every little counts!

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Walter Bishop

Why can't we have a special pledge rate for kids and OAPs at say a fiver every little counts!

Very much agree with this. And also like the idea of stalls etc being set up in and around the ground. 

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I just had a look for the plans that the FoH elected Director was going to use to engage with the fans and boost FoH.

 

I have not particularly been looking for these things to happen - but have to say I can't think of any of them having been seen.  Not a criticism just saying that the actions haven't been hugely visible.

 

The Board?s main focus during the three year tenure will be progressing the transition of ownership from BIDCO. If elected, I pledge transparency, honesty and openness throughout my tenure. I will:
 
Provide regular feedback to members on activities behind the scenes through dedicated twitter and email accounts and a regular blog published via online fan forums;
Form a representative sub-committee of Hearts supporters and FOH members, the views of whom I will represent on the Board;
Canvass members? views on key issues regularly and act as an advocate for fans at Board level; and
Give everything to ensure the FOH achieves its aim of achieving full fan ownership.
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Not everyone will want to pay on a monthly basis. If they could accept one off Paypal payments that would help.

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BelgeJambo

IMHO - I would be happy to continue contributing after the payback is complete.  That 1.4 million being generated every year by FOH would be extra revenue for the club to utilise.  I have a great feeling of satisfaction that my contribution and the other 7999 are doing something that will give us a chance to compete, and that,  is what we all want at the end of the day.  It isn't viable for me to purchase a season ticket, but that doesn't stop me trying to get across from Belgium at least 5-6 times a year.  in between vists, I also subscribe to Hearts TV at 8.99 per month and to be honest, if the rose that to a tenner a month, i would still subscribe.

 

It is easy of course to say all this just now, I am earning well and can afford my current support.  My circumstances are not verybody's circumstances so appreciate opinions will vary.

 

I just want to see us compete on the field and above all, I would like to see a new main stand in my lifetime

 

HHGH til I die

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132goals1958

Why can't we have a special pledge rate for kids and OAPs at say a fiver every little counts!

Only downside to that is it could possibly encourage old codgers like me to reduce their monthly pledge,

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Not everyone will want to pay on a monthly basis. If they could accept one off Paypal payments that would help.

 

I can understand why they wouldn't do this.

Provide people with a reason to opt for a one-off payment instead of a pledge and chances are they might take it. Then donate once but never again, or forget to donate altogether. The pledges offer a steady stream of planned income, that's a million times more valuable (and lower risk) than the completely unpredictable nature of occasional donations. The regular planned income is the element that gave Ann Budge the confidence to lend us the cash to buy the club.

 

The uncertainty of random donations would most likely outweigh the benefits of having it as an option.

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I can understand why they wouldn't do this.

Provide people with a reason to opt for a one-off payment instead of a pledge and chances are they might take it. Then donate once but never again, or forget to donate altogether. The pledges offer a steady stream of planned income, that's a million times more valuable (and lower risk) than the completely unpredictable nature of occasional donations. The regular planned income is the element that gave Ann Budge the confidence to lend us the cash to buy the club.

 

The uncertainty of random donations would most likely outweigh the benefits of having it as an option.

 

Good post.

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Not everyone will want to pay on a monthly basis. If they could accept one off Paypal payments that would help.

I thought the facility was there at present to do this anyway

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Re: the OP. I don't know, in short, but I've been thinking about it since I saw Cormack's tweet this morning!

 

I'm tempted to think there needs to be a specific project attached to the next push - a clear 'this is what can be achieved if you consider pledging and help us' sort of scenario. As other have mentioned, although I do think there's probably merit in getting some folk out onto the Wheatfield concourse or round the back of the Main Stand, we may well be close to maxing out anyway. I wonder how many people are out there who would like to pledge but have never encountered the opportunity? Can it be many? I'm not sure if just making it easier for people (by putting the opportunity in their lap) is going to be enough to get the sort of boost he's hoping for. 2000 is a lot of people when it doesn't have the emotional surge of a survival issue behind it.

 

I like the idea of building on research. If there was greater knowledge about the reasons why people do and don't pledge then it would be easier to design and target the 'message'. Above all, care must be taken to avoid insulting or being seen to be critical of those who, for whatever reason, have chosen not to pledge. I really think that's so important.

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I thought the facility was there at present to do this anyway

 

If it is, I'm glad they've kept it really quiet :laugh:

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The Treasurer

Re: the OP. I don't know, in short, but I've been thinking about it since I saw Cormack's tweet this morning!

 

I'm tempted to think there needs to be a specific project attached to the next push - a clear 'this is what can be achieved if you consider pledging and help us' sort of scenario. As other have mentioned, although I do think there's probably merit in getting some folk out onto the Wheatfield concourse or round the back of the Main Stand, we may well be close to maxing out anyway. I wonder how many people are out there who would like to pledge but have never encountered the opportunity? Can it be many? I'm not sure if just making it easier for people (by putting the opportunity in their lap) is going to be enough to get the sort of boost he's hoping for. 2000 is a lot of people when it doesn't have the emotional surge of a survival issue behind it.

 

I like the idea of building on research. If there was greater knowledge about the reasons why people do and don't pledge then it would be easier to design and target the 'message'. Above all, care must be taken to avoid insulting or being seen to be critical of those who, for whatever reason, have chosen not to pledge. I really think that's so important.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

Having a clearly defined "project" might encourage more pledges after the initial "goal" has been achieved.

Just look how successful the two 500 clubs were in raising funds for the rebuilding.

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If it is, I'm glad they've kept it really quiet :laugh:

Tbf I'm not sure about the PayPal part but I know I topped up my sons donations to get him to the required points for his name on the top.

That was by debit card though.

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A lot of the work is seen around the ground and some of the unseen work is reported on the Hearts web site like the poor internet set up which was rectified and upgraded by Fans for cost price.

 

I was not aware of what has been done with the fans money so I amsure thsat there are a lot out there like me.

 

With that in mind perhaps we should be making much more of what has been and will be done in the future so that might encourage more donators.

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I was not aware of what has been done with the fans money so I amsure thsat there are a lot out there like me.

 

With that in mind perhaps we should be making much more of what has been and will be done in the future so that might encourage more donators.

Awareness could be better. Although a lot of things done are written about on the web site. The latest one underway is the relaying of the pitch that followed on from the new maroon track round the perimeter.

 

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4345

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4344

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I think we're maxed out to be honest.

 

If you weren't going to do it to help save the club then you are never going to do it.

 

Correct. If we maintain the current level then it's a great achievement imo. 

 

Everything is running smoothly at the club right now so where's the incentive?

Unless FOH came out and said they need more money for a specific project then I don't see it increasing. 

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peter_hmfc

I think we're maxed out to be honest.

 

If you weren't going to do it to help save the club then you are never going to do it.

 

:spoton:

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If it is, I'm glad they've kept it really quiet :laugh:

On the pledging page of the FOH website, there are various "top up" buttons underneath the monthly DD options.

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jamboinglasgow

Re: the OP. I don't know, in short, but I've been thinking about it since I saw Cormack's tweet this morning!

 

I'm tempted to think there needs to be a specific project attached to the next push - a clear 'this is what can be achieved if you consider pledging and help us' sort of scenario. As other have mentioned, although I do think there's probably merit in getting some folk out onto the Wheatfield concourse or round the back of the Main Stand, we may well be close to maxing out anyway. I wonder how many people are out there who would like to pledge but have never encountered the opportunity? Can it be many? I'm not sure if just making it easier for people (by putting the opportunity in their lap) is going to be enough to get the sort of boost he's hoping for. 2000 is a lot of people when it doesn't have the emotional surge of a survival issue behind it.

 

I like the idea of building on research. If there was greater knowledge about the reasons why people do and don't pledge then it would be easier to design and target the 'message'. Above all, care must be taken to avoid insulting or being seen to be critical of those who, for whatever reason, have chosen not to pledge. I really think that's so important.

 

I think a project is a good idea, something that people feel can make a real difference if they sign up (not that they aren't already.) 

 

One thing I think they should to look to change the message of FoH in its advertising. Before its been sign up to save the club and the huge task to rebuild the club. Now it should be about joining FoH and after what has been achieved with supporter backing in one season, with increased support we can make the club both the best it can and also unique in Scottish football.

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I thought the facility was there at present to do this anyway

Is it not only available for expats?

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portobellojambo1

In terms of numbers attending Tynecastle regularly, and even accepting that there will be some contributing whose geographical location means they cannot turn up at Tynecastle for every game, I think the present level of contributors is very good. I am in the unsure camp of finding ways to get additional people to contribute, I'd be inclined to say that if someone really was able and wanted to contribute to FoH they would have done so by now. It is also very possible that not all the contributors are individual, in that the money could be coming from one person but be a contribution on behalf of a family, for example, so the actual number of 8,100 accounts may actually cover more fans than this overall.

 

I am like Jammy T, in that my payment is set up, comes off by direct debit, and I know where I stand money wise for the rest of the month and I fully intend to leave the payment in place until I'm put in my box/furnace. As someone a bit more aged, at 59, it would be interesting to find out the brackets age wise of those contributing, just to get an idea if there is a good number of younger fans (say 18-30, for example) contributing, just to give an idea if the club will have a comfortable level of additional income for the mid to longer term periods (not sure if FoH have our DoB, I cannot remember what personal details I put in at outset, and can produce this sort of information through their database).

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Some really good points and ideas being put forward. Maybe FoH could look to using the services of a professional advertising / design agency to increase our membership. We do seem to have stalled a bit as far as new members are concerned.

I'm no expert, but I'm sure with a professionally designed campaign, and slick video montage, we could increase our chances of getting more members.

 

Get some of the current players involved, include Anne, Craig and Robbie. Get a few legends on board, Robbo and Rudi.

Make it clear what the donations to Heart of Midlothian would mean to the club, and how important it is to have thousands of fans backing them every month with their money.

Can't underestimate the power of advertising, especially when it gets to the heartstrings and tugs on the emotions.

Surely there must be some Jambo media savvy experts out there in Edinburgh?

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Alan Johnson

I'm sure this will have been discussed before, but do we absolutely have to pay Mrs Budge back? Could the FOH's first vote not be whether or not to do so? I for one would be perfectly happy to install her as the permanent owner if she were willing to do so.

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I see that new HMFC Board Member Brian Cormack is trying to drive FOH DD's from current 8100 to 10000.

 

Previous attempts to drive the number of DD's up were based around "what FOH could achieve" but now I think we're in a position where we can all look back and see "what FOH has achieved".

 

Clearly, the links between FOH & HMFC are demonstrably strong and the performance on & off the pitch has been beyond most expectations. Fans Rewards has went from concept to reality and FOH also has it's first elected Director - I know only 1 candidate came forward but that's a completely different discussion.

 

Question. Knowing what we all know now, other than personal finances, what is it that stops more people contributing to a monthly DD & is there anymore we can all do to convince others to join up with FOH?

Good points Ian. I think you've hit the nail on the head in making people understand what the money has achieved thus far. Needs to be marketed properly but if people could visualise what their contributions achieved over the last year it would help. Also there will be more Hearts fans not attending games than attending therefore it's not all about game day advertising. For example ex pats therefore how do they interface with the club?
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Geoff Kilpatrick

Iain, this isn't a criticism of you but if Brian Cormack is determined to hit 10,000, why isn't he starting this thread asking for ideas? That would be part of the better communication he is pledging.

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Footballfirst

I see that new HMFC Board Member Brian Cormack is trying to drive FOH DD's from current 8100 to 10000.

 

Previous attempts to drive the number of DD's up were based around "what FOH could achieve" but now I think we're in a position where we can all look back and see "what FOH has achieved".

 

Clearly, the links between FOH & HMFC are demonstrably strong and the performance on & off the pitch has been beyond most expectations. Fans Rewards has went from concept to reality and FOH also has it's first elected Director - I know only 1 candidate came forward but that's a completely different discussion.

 

Question. Knowing what we all know now, other than personal finances, what is it that stops more people contributing to a monthly DD & is there anymore we can all do to convince others to join up with FOH?

 

The intention to seek an increase in pledge numbers is a laudable one, but I believe it has to be accompanied by an updated set of aims and visions for FOH going forward. 

 

Currently the primary objective of FOH remains to deliver "Fan Ownership".  We are only one year into a five year programme to deliver that objective, so I think it is a little premature to start talking about investing in other areas of the club before ownership is secured.

 

Is it Brian's intention to use any extra funds raised to meet that primary objective earlier than planned, or is it his (and the FOH's Board's) intention to use the funds towards a capital investment (e.g. a new stand), an investment in the future (the Academy), or just to provide additional working capital for day to day running of the club.

 

Everybody who has invested to date has done so in the knowledge that they were 1) helping save the club and 2) delivering fan ownership.  Any change in those objectives (for existing and prospective new contributors) needs to be discussed and agreed with the membership.   

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