wavydavy Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 No. My guess is around ?5m from the Donalds with the some deal to try to extract another 3 million from from transfer fees and stadium sale. I don't agree with this strategy as I know I wouldnot be given this opportunity on my mortgage. The original post I replied to stated that the majority of debt was simply being written off and I don't believe this is true. We are obviously looking at this from different mindsets and a lot of guesswork is involved however we both seem to agree that the average member of the public would not be given a similar opportunity if they got into difficulty with a mortgage. So until the day that it ever might be known exactly how much has been written off then probably best to put this debate to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 We are obviously looking at this from different mindsets and a lot of guesswork is involved however we both seem to agree that the average member of the public would not be given a similar opportunity if they got into difficulty with a mortgage. So until the day that it ever might be known exactly how much has been written off then probably best to put this debate to bed. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 You're a bit out with the average attendances. I think your point still stands, but you have them about 3k up and us 3k adverse. So not insignificant, especially in our case. For this season, certainly, but not far off in previous seasons. Fair point, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 There is a way of working out the Donald's possible investment. The 2013 accounts show Milne's holding at 1,643,000 shares or 27.6% The 2014 accounts say that Milne's holding will increase by 3,843,478 shares which will take him up to 43% (but only 29.9% voting rights) That means that the total number of shares once the deal is finalised will be around 12.7M The Donalds will hold around 20% of the total, so around 2.54M shares Milne's 3,843,478 shares were issued in return for writing off debts of ?4.42M On a pro rata basis, the Donald's 2.54M shares would be equivalent to ?2.92M The above assumes that the value of Milne's debt was not discounted in the same way as the BOS debt. ?2.92M is still a big discount on the bank loan of ?9.369M that was outstanding in the accounts. It would represent a payment of around 31%. The Bank also retains the rights to a share of any windfall profits on the future sale of the Pitoddrie site beyond a certain value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Its time the sfa started making debt write offs point deductable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 As a comparison, Dundee Utd's ?4.8M bank debt was settled with an initial payment of ?1.45M (30%) plus a cut of future transfers. 30% would therefore appear to be around the settlement figure that Lloyds are willing to bear. It may also be an indicator of how much Farmer will have to pay to clear Hibs bank debt. 30% of Hibs ?6.3M would be ?1.89M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Honourable sentiments indeed, however - as a Heart fan would I want to see only Hearts cleared of debt, meaning that my Club has a bigger budget for better players than my rivals, thus increasing our chances of winning trophies or do I want Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, all cleared of debt which means they can also have a bigger player budget, and therefore will give Hearts much tougher competition. Interesting choice. German football is generally regarded as being in the best financial state in the world. And their national team are the best in the world. Only a few years ago, Bayern Munich loaned Dortmund ?2m to stop them going tits up. It's a no brainer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 There seems to be a consensus here that is better for the general good of Scottish football that Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, are debt free and therefore more competitive - is there the same consensus that we should support Celtic in their European campaigns for the general good of Scottish football? It might be a bitter pill to swallow, but you can't argue that Celtic are worse without Rangers. They're pisher currently than I can remember them in a long time. And that's because they've not needed players of the quality of Larsson, Moravcik, Hartson etc. to win the league. A league filled with teams crippled by debt might be good for Hearts in terms of finishing 2nd or 3rd, but if we're able to do it by fielding a team of players who are only "good enough" because of the standard of the rest of the league then it's not good for Hearts long term. I want all clubs in Scottish football debt free and challenging each other to be better. With the fan base we have and the current management/board model, we should benefit from that scenario and become a better team as a result. And that can be done without supporting the 'Tic in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Shaton Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 It's only a matter of time until wiggy puts the padlock on pit-tawdry and pulls the plug on Aberghreen. All over by 17th March by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 German football is generally regarded as being in the best financial state in the world. And their national team are the best in the world. Only a few years ago, Bayern Munich loaned Dortmund ?2m to stop them going tits up. It's a no brainer for me. S'funny, I was daydreaming yesterday, wondering if it would be in Celtic's best interest to help Rangers out a bit. You know, just a few wee loans or the like. On the QT, obviously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davie1980 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 In the early days when Vlad was bringing in top quality players and paying them wages that any other Scottish Club (outwith the OF) could not afford - was this termed "competition obliteration"? Yes Vlad's signing policy was unsustainable, however I can't remember many Hearts fans complaining of any "competition obliteration" of Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, when we had the likes of Bednar, Jankauskas, Takis, Gordon, Brellier, etc, winning the Cup and getting a CL place. I never complained too much and neither did any hearts fan I know. But there were questions raised. But I will say this, i'm a lot happier with the way we are achieving success now that the way we did then. I appreciate that flying high at the top of the championship is slightly different to burleys team dominating the top league with a strong OF in our wake. But it gives me a warm glow seeing the way both the football and business side of the club is being managed right now and really highlights, albeit with hindsight, just how badly hearts & the rest of scottish football has been run in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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