Aberdeen debt plan approved....

[Clerry Jambo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30489266

[KeithD]

Great news. Seems like most Premiership clubs are getting their act together.

[Fozzyonthefence]

Great news. Seems like most Premiership clubs are getting their act together.

 

Hardly getting their act together - just lucky that the banks loaned them millions of pounds, presumably unsecured, and are now prepared to write most of it off.  Very lucky, as they are effectively pence in the ? CVAs without the legal implications.

[Guest oldcastlerock2012]

Great news. Seems like most Premiership clubs are getting their act together.

 

14m debt with one League Cup win to show for it. Mental. Puts our final debt into a bit of perspective. Maybe Aberdeen will start punching their weight. They've been living on past glories for a couple of decades now.

[H2]

Hardly getting their act together - just lucky that the banks loaned them millions of pounds, presumably unsecured, and are now prepared to write most of it off.  Very lucky, as they are effectively pence in the ? CVAs without the legal implications.

I think there is an inference in there that Milne and Donald have put in substantial sums of money.

[Nucky Thompson]

Hardly getting their act together - just lucky that the banks loaned them millions of pounds, presumably unsecured, and are now prepared to write most of it off.  Very lucky, as they are effectively pence in the ? CVAs without the legal implications.

This

[Footballfirst]

I think there is an inference in there that Milne and Donald have put in substantial sums of money.

From the Sheep's accounts:

 

After the financial year end, we reached agreement with the bank, Stewart Milne Group and Aberdeen Asset Management, and with new investors, to restructure the debt and share capital of the Club. Some of the elements of the agreement have already been implemented, others are dependent on the approval of the relevant shareholder resolution at the AGM; but assuming that the resolution is approved, and when the agreed arrangements are fully implemented, the main changes will be that:-

* the net debt of the Club is expected to be reduced by ?14.49m and its share capital and reserves will be increased by a corresponding amount;

* the new investors, Willie and Elaine Donald, who are supporters of the Club and are prominent in the local business community, will each have a shareholding of around 10%;

* Stewart Milne Group and related parties will have increased their shareholding to around 43% but their voting rights will be restricted to 29.9%;

* the Aberdeen FC Community Trust will receive a shareholding of around 9% by way of gift;

* the shareholdings of existing ordinary shareholders will be diluted by around 55%.

 

 

It was intended that Milne would convert ?4.42M of debt into equity.

[2NaFish]

Good for aberdeen. The more clubs that get to this stage the better for our game; this could be looked upon as the start of a great period of scottish football.

[Fozzyonthefence]

I think there is an inference in there that Milne and Donald have put in substantial sums of money.

 

I was meaning a more general reference to the deals that Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Killie and Hibs have cut with the banks (or is it just bank?) recently.

[Chaka Demus & pliers]

Good for aberdeen. The more clubs that get to this stage the better for our game; this could be looked upon as the start of a great period of scottish football.

Armageddon's due soon I think.

[Locky]

With clubs like Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs debt free or heading that way, is there now a time for Scotland's bigger clubs to operate on a more level playing field? Especially as long as crowds at Parkhead keep dropping and the mhanks fail to do much in the Champions League.

[2NaFish]

Armageddon's due soon I think.

 

Armageddon is the final battle between good and evil, which will result in evil being vanquished. Sounds about right to me.

[weaz1981]

Imagine if this had happened before pie man with us? What will be will be but I am content where we are at the moment and happy for the clubs who get out of being held to ransom by the banks (through gritted teeth saying that about hibs)

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Good to see clubs escaping the Murray-Masterton-BoS tar-pit. The Scottish Football carve up was a total racket.

[Independence]

Well done, Aberdeen.

[pettigrewsstylist]

If hibs pull theirs off and we can get promoted,,and SEVCO dont, the next few yrs could be a semi exciting environment for all us "parochial clubs"

 

Wont stop Celtic taking 1st though

[Franco Fascione]

Good for aberdeen. The more clubs that get to this stage the better for our game; this could be looked upon as the start of a great period of scottish football.

Hear hear!

[Thomaso]

Good for aberdeen. The more clubs that get to this stage the better for our game; this could be looked upon as the start of a great period of scottish football.

 

Honourable sentiments indeed, however -

 

as a Heart fan would I want to see only Hearts cleared of debt, meaning that my Club has a bigger budget for better players than my rivals, thus increasing our chances of winning trophies

 

or

 

do I want Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, all cleared of debt which means they can also have a bigger player budget, and therefore will give Hearts much tougher competition.

 

Interesting choice.

[Tasavallan]

I think there is an inference in there that Milne and Donald have put in substantial sums of money.

They did converting it to shares along with AAM.

[Shooter McGavin]

good on them

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Good on Aberdeen for achieving this but now is the time for the people of that city to come out and support their team. 10k crowds when you are near the top of the league is a bit of a joke in a one club city with a healthy population. No disrespects to the small town teams that have their runs near the top but Scottish football in terms of attendances should thrive if ourselves and the likes of Aberdeen and both Dundee clubs are challenging Celtic at the top. Sorry I strayed off the debt thing a bit there.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Good on Aberdeen for achieving this but now is the time for the people of that city to come out and support their team. 10k crowds when you are near the top of the league is a bit of a joke in a one club city with a healthy population. No disrespects to the small town teams that have their runs near the top but Scottish football in terms of attendances should thrive if ourselves and the likes of Aberdeen and both Dundee clubs are challenging Celtic at the top. Sorry I strayed off the debt thing a bit there.

Add in the fact that a sizeable chunk of their support is from the central belt, and it really does highlight the potential behind a freak successful period within a history of mediocrity.

[VALDOS]

Hardly getting their act together - just lucky that the banks loaned them millions of pounds, presumably unsecured, and are now prepared to write most of it off. Very lucky, as they are effectively pence in the ? CVAs without the legal implications.

still a brilliant deal and well done to them for getting it on the table.

[JamboGraham]

Honourable sentiments indeed, however -

 

as a Heart fan would I want to see only Hearts cleared of debt, meaning that my Club has a bigger budget for better players than my rivals, thus increasing our chances of winning trophies

 

or

 

do I want Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, all cleared of debt which means they can also have a bigger player budget, and therefore will give Hearts much tougher competition.

 

Interesting choice.

For me the key word you use is "competition". In your second option what we would have is roughly similar sized clubs working in an environment where one great signing, or a couple of gems from the youth academy could be the spark to make you stand out from the crowd.

 

As opposed to the competition obliteration signing policy used by the old firm for years (and in reality still is by Celtic in comparison to everyone else)...

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Honourable sentiments indeed, however -

 

as a Heart fan would I want to see only Hearts cleared of debt, meaning that my Club has a bigger budget for better players than my rivals, thus increasing our chances of winning trophies

 

or

 

do I want Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, all cleared of debt which means they can also have a bigger player budget, and therefore will give Hearts much tougher competition.

 

Interesting choice.

Cretinous logic.

[tommythejambo]

Seems like Scottish football is working towards becoming debt free.

 

Which in turn means clubs won't have to sell their best players for shitpence to keep the lights on.

 

Which in turn is going to bring more cash into the Scottish game.

 

Only a positive.

[Mr Nobody]

Honourable sentiments indeed, however -

 

as a Heart fan would I want to see only Hearts cleared of debt, meaning that my Club has a bigger budget for better players than my rivals, thus increasing our chances of winning trophies

 

or

 

do I want Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, all cleared of debt which means they can also have a bigger player budget, and therefore will give Hearts much tougher competition.

 

Interesting choice.

Attitude 1 is the reason Scottish football is in the state it is in. There is an opportunity over the next couple of years to really change it for the better assuming Sevco don't get their act together

[Thomaso]

Cretinous logic.

 

As is your post my friend.

[Thomaso]

Attitude 1 is the reason Scottish football is in the state it is in. There is an opportunity over the next couple of years to really change it for the better assuming Sevco don't get their act together

 

 

With regards to your last comment - are you saying that all Clubs becoming debt free presents a chance to change Scottish football for the better on the premise that Rangers do not become debt free?

[Thomaso]

For me the key word you use is "competition". In your second option what we would have is roughly similar sized clubs working in an environment where one great signing, or a couple of gems from the youth academy could be the spark to make you stand out from the crowd.

 

As opposed to the competition obliteration signing policy used by the old firm for years (and in reality still is by Celtic in comparison to everyone else)...

 

In the early days when Vlad was bringing in top quality players and paying them wages that any other Scottish Club (outwith the OF) could not afford - was this termed "competition obliteration"?

 

Yes Vlad's signing policy was unsustainable, however I can't remember many Hearts fans complaining of any "competition obliteration" of Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, when we had the likes of Bednar, Jankauskas, Takis, Gordon, Brellier, etc, winning the Cup and getting a CL place.

[Neon]

Out of interest what ever happened to their stadium development plans I thought Aberdeen city council were helping with this also?

 

Ach its in the paper article, sorry about that.]

 

Not particularly happy they are wiping such a large debt and still going to relocate

[Thomaso]

Good for aberdeen. The more clubs that get to this stage the better for our game; this could be looked upon as the start of a great period of scottish football.

 

 

There seems to be a consensus here that is better for the general good of Scottish football that Aberdeen, Hibs, etc, are debt free and therefore more competitive - is there the same consensus that we should support Celtic in their European campaigns for the general good of Scottish football?

[Mr Nobody]

With regards to your last comment - are you saying that all Clubs becoming debt free presents a chance to change Scottish football for the better on the premise that Rangers do not become debt free?

I'm saying that if Rangers remain a basket case for another few years and the remainder of the clubs get their act together the competition will be a lot more level. A return of a strong Rangers will see a return to the duopoly very quickly particularly as they appear to have learnt nothing.

[Thomaso]

I'm saying that if Rangers remain a basket case for another few years and the remainder of the clubs get their act together the competition will be a lot more level. A return of a strong Rangers will see a return to the duopoly very quickly particularly as they appear to have learnt nothing.

 

Regretfully even if the Clubs get their act together and Rangers remain a basket case Scottish football will still be a Celtic monopoly.

[Mr Nobody]

Based on falling attendances for them they may well still be dominant but not as much with both sides of the OF imo. With the other clubs also debt free they will not have to sell players on the cheap but should be able to hold out for more which should allow them to become more competitive

[dobmisterdobster]

I am happy that Scottish football clubs are shedding their debt.

[wavydavy]

Hardly getting their act together - just lucky that the banks loaned them millions of pounds, presumably unsecured, and are now prepared to write most of it off.  Very lucky, as they are effectively pence in the ? CVAs without the legal implications.

 

Spot On. I think it is disgraceful behaviour by the Banks and shows a total direspectect for the thousands of ordinary customers who would never be allowed to do anything like this. They would lose their homes etc so the banks could get their money back.

 

I just can't see the logic in this from the Banks viewpoint, Aberdeen have two of the wealthiest men in Scotland involved in the club and yet the Bank allow the majority of their debt to be written off.

 

I am surprised that there is'nt a public outcry about this sort of behaviour especially if the majority of the shareholders are the British Public.

[Unknown user]

Spot On. I think it is disgraceful behaviour by the Banks and shows a total direspectect for the thousands of ordinary customers who would never be allowed to do anything like this. They would lose their homes etc so the banks could get their money back.

 

I just can't see the logic in this from the Banks viewpoint, Aberdeen have two of the wealthiest men in Scotland involved in the club and yet the Bank allow the majority of their debt to be written off.

 

I am surprised that there is'nt a public outcry about this sort of behaviour especially if the majority of the shareholders are the British Public.

I understood that the banks haven't taken much of a hit at all with these recent deals.

Aberdeen and United both had sugar daddies who put cash in, Milne also contributed by putting cash into aberdeen via new shares.

 

Killie also had help from local business men but lost their profitable hotel as part of the deal.

 

I don't think the banks have written of much at all, it's more like getting an early settlement figure on a loan if I've read things right

[Anderson5]

Spot On. I think it is disgraceful behaviour by the Banks and shows a total direspectect for the thousands of ordinary customers who would never be allowed to do anything like this. They would lose their homes etc so the banks could get their money back.

 

I just can't see the logic in this from the Banks viewpoint, Aberdeen have two of the wealthiest men in Scotland involved in the club and yet the Bank allow the majority of their debt to be written off.

 

I am surprised that there is'nt a public outcry about this sort of behaviour especially if the majority of the shareholders are the British Public.

Surely this is tongue in cheek?

[Unknown user]

Surely this is tongue in cheek?

aaaaaah, of course. God I'm slow

[Rick Grimes]

Good news for Aberdeen, particularly as they were due to be kicked out of their stadium 18 months ago. Allegedly.

[Hungry hippo]

Spot On. I think it is disgraceful behaviour by the Banks and shows a total direspectect for the thousands of ordinary customers who would never be allowed to do anything like this. They would lose their homes etc so the banks could get their money back.

 

I just can't see the logic in this from the Banks viewpoint, Aberdeen have two of the wealthiest men in Scotland involved in the club and yet the Bank allow the majority of their debt to be written off.

 

I am surprised that there is'nt a public outcry about this sort of behaviour especially if the majority of the shareholders are the British Public.

The majority of the debt hasn't been written off. With Dundee United they managed to recoup almost all of a high risk and high maintenance debt within a very short space of time. Don't know the full details with Aberdeen but Milne has written off his personal debt of over ?4m and the Donalds have paid the bank a very substantial sum up front to reach this agreement. There will also be further conditions to allow the bank to receive further funds. The bank are not being daft with these agreements.

[wavydavy]

The majority of the debt hasn't been written off. With Dundee United they managed to recoup almost all of a high risk and high maintenance debt within a very short space of time. Don't know the full details with Aberdeen but Milne has written off his personal debt of over ?4m and the Donalds have paid the bank a very substantial sum up front to reach this agreement. There will also be further conditions to allow the bank to receive further funds. The bank are not being daft with these agreements.

 

According to the Aberdeen Press & Journal the Bank were owed ?10.49 million, ?5million of which was to be repaid next year and the balance by 2017.

 

Milne was owed the other ?4 million which he has converted into equity in the club so unless Donald has picked up the tab for the ?10.49 million then I would expect the banks have written off a large chunk of the money owed to them.

 

Both Milne and Donald are mega players in the Business World in Aberdeen and elsewhere so I am sure they have exerted a bit of pressure on the Banks to allow this to happen.

 

It is interesting to note that Donald's contribution is undisclosed that will be so as not to embarrass the Bank.

[Hungry hippo]

According to the Aberdeen Press & Journal the Bank were owed ?10.49 million, ?5million of which was to be repaid next year and the balance by 2017.

 

Milne was owed the other ?4 million which he has converted into equity in the club so unless Donald has picked up the tab for the ?10.49 million then I would expect the banks have written off a large chunk of the money owed to them.

 

Both Milne and Donald are mega players in the Business World in Aberdeen and elsewhere so I am sure they have exerted a bit of pressure on the Banks to allow this to happen.

 

It is interesting to note that Donald's contribution is undisclosed that will be so as not to embarrass the Bank.

I'd read the above figures in the press also. The intention will be for the bank to receive at least 75% back in the short term rather than risk a situation similar to HBOS with Dunfermline and Ukio/Ubig with Hearts.

 

I agree that the bank won't want to confirm publicly that they are accepting less than 100%. It appears to have been a policy decision to exit the football lending market asap.

[wavydavy]

I'd read the above figures in the press also. The intention will be for the bank to receive at least 75% back in the short term rather than risk a situation similar to HBOS with Dunfermline and Ukio/Ubig with Hearts.

 

I agree that the bank won't want to confirm publicly that they are accepting less than 100%. It appears to have been a policy decision to exit the football lending market asap.

 

So based on your theory on the bank getting back at least 75% that would mean that the Donald Family have agreed to pay the Bank ?7.5 million. You seriously don't believe that do you?

 

I would reckon they would be doing well to get ?2.5 miillion which is a huge loss irrespective of whether they want to get out of the football lending market or not, don' you agree?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Regretfully even if the Clubs get their act together and Rangers remain a basket case Scottish football will still be a Celtic monopoly.

 

Except that Celtic's fortunes are tied to Rangers.  The OF derby sells tickets, and an OF title race every year keeps interest in other games.  If Celtic are strolling to the title every year, their attendances will dwindle -- they'll still be the biggest club, but not by nearly as much.

 

With our average attendances at 13k and theirs at 45k, there's no way we can compete financially.  However, if we grow and expand Tynecastle and get our averages up to 18-20k, and Celtic dwindle to 35k, that's close enough for us to give them a title race now and again.

[Phage]

Don't like them but well done... Scottish football is moving in the right direction (or Armageddon depending who you listen too).

 

A healthy league is good for everyone in the long run. They have come a long way since taking the Toaster out of the staff room to save costs.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aberdeen/819059.stm

[pablo]

Except that Celtic's fortunes are tied to Rangers. The OF derby sells tickets, and an OF title race every year keeps interest in other games. If Celtic are strolling to the title every year, their attendances will dwindle -- they'll still be the biggest club, but not by nearly as much.

 

With our average attendances at 13k and theirs at 45k, there's no way we can compete financially. However, if we grow and expand Tynecastle and get our averages up to 18-20k, and Celtic dwindle to 35k, that's close enough for us to give them a title race now and again.

You're a bit out with the average attendances. I think your point still stands, but you have them about 3k up and us 3k adverse. So not insignificant, especially in our case.

[roscogt1]

Good for aberdeen. The more clubs that get to this stage the better for our game; this could be looked upon as the start of a great period of scottish football.

totally agree. Can only be a good thing.

[Hungry hippo]

So based on your theory on the bank getting back at least 75% that would mean that the Donald Family have agreed to pay the Bank ?7.5 million. You seriously don't believe that do you?

 

I would reckon they would be doing well to get ?2.5 miillion which is a huge loss irrespective of whether they want to get out of the football lending market or not, don' you agree?

No. My guess is around ?5m from the Donalds with the some deal to try to extract another 3 million from from transfer fees and stadium sale.

 

I don't agree with this strategy as I know I wouldnot be given this opportunity on my mortgage.

 

The original post I replied to stated that the majority of debt was simply being written off and I don't believe this is true.