Hearts AGM

[bilstonjambo]

Hearts museum being costed in old club shop at 3 levels of spend.

 

Must pay for itself, Ann Park has experience if working with charities and securing grants.

 

JKB offering potential funding assistance.

was there any mention of what sorts of costs would be involved in this project?

[brownkg]

After the meeting I raised the HOMST shares issue with Jaqui Duncan(club secretary) and gave her contact details that I had for them will see if that helps unblock the log jam

[Footballfirst]

Sorry mate,i know it was not you who split it.Did Eric Hogg pass any comment on the figure.I am very surprised it is as high as this.

No explanation from Eric although I seem to remember Ann mentioning 70% in a previous interview or Q&A.  Eric did add that we are currently slightly under budget.   A straight calculation of the forecast end of year figures ?3.447M against ?5.573M actually works out at 62%, so perhaps not as bad as Eric made out.  It could be that the 67% quoted may include provision for new recruitment in the upcoming transfer window.

 

Edit: the 67% seems to come from the adjusted budget figure ?3.431M against ?5.098M

[8skacel8]

All the positivity coming from our AGM couldn't have came at a better time with everything that is happening at Ibrox.

 

All the footballing side being praised including RN being touted for bigger things in the future. Then we have been told there is money available to strengthen if we can target the correct players.

 

This time last year we were in a horrible place and now things are moving in the right direction both on and off the field. Onwards and upwards!

[RobNox]

No explanation from Eric although I seem to remember Ann mentioning 70% in a previous interview or Q&A.  Eric did add that we are currently slightly under budget.   A straight calculation of the forecast end of year figures ?3.447M against ?5.573M actually works out at 62%, so perhaps not as bad as Eric made out.  It could be that the 67% quoted may include provision for new recruitment in the upcoming transfer window.

 

Edit: the 67% seems to come from the adjusted budget figure ?3.431M against ?5.098M

So if we base it on the forecast figures, the ratio would be 62%, which seems acceptable enough given where we are.  Obviously, if we do strengthen in January that figure will rise, but I wouldn't be concerned if it meant we gain promotion at the first opportunity.

 

The ?1m additional revenues for reaching the Premiership is a minimum, it could be significantly higher depending on where we finish in the league and I think our current squad should be capable of top 6, even before we strengthen any further, which I presume we would do.

 

Added to that, I assume we will have a shirt sponsor next season, which will bring in more money.  And (pipe dream I know) maybe Doncaster will managed to find a sponsor for the Premiership, which again would add to our revenues.

 

Against that, I wonder how many of our players may be on contracts that have increases built in should we return to the top division.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Does anyone know what happened to Ian Murray today? I seem to remember mrs budge said she didn't know why he wasn't there when she was doing the introductions...

[dobmisterdobster]

I was there and I asked Ann why she terminated the Wonga sponsorship when we needed money the most. She claimed the sponsorship from Wonga wasn't worth very much.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Does anyone know what happened to Ian Murray today? I seem to remember mrs budge said she didn't know why he wasn't there when she was doing the introductions...

Bedroom Tax vote? Today in Westminster.

[Dave McCreery's knee]

was there any mention of what sorts of costs would be involved in this project?

[Dave McCreery's knee]

Club would presumably look to buy the building to use as museum and secure site for longer term stand development.

[Craigieboy]

Watching the video of Ann and as usual, whenever the prodpect of moving from Tynecastle is mentioned it sends a shiver down my spine.

 

I'd hate to openly and actively have to oppose the current Hearts board but I would over this.

[CJGJ]

Watching the video of Ann and as usual, whenever the prodpect of moving from Tynecastle is mentioned it sends a shiver down my spine.

 

I'd hate to openly and actively have to oppose the current Hearts board but I would over this.

Sorry but I cannot agree

 

IF and only IF finances were in place and we could ensure a future stadium for all our fans over the next 40 years we must consider it.

 

Lots of course to discuss such as access, parking, travel, facilities and income streams that would be generated as a result of a move and would it help expand the support base but in principle no objections to a move..........and who knows if the design is right we may add to the crowd atmosphere.

 

However it would need to be sold to the fans and not just as a fait accompli.

[Hot since 86]

Watching the video of Ann and as usual, whenever the prodpect of moving from Tynecastle is mentioned it sends a shiver down my spine.

I'd hate to openly and actively have to oppose the current Hearts board but I would over this.

I agree. I get the feeling she thinks moving is the most cost effective way of moving forward. However I genuinely feel this is one of the few times where sentimentality should prevail over business sense.

If staying isn't an option and is taken out of our hands, then fine but I really would hate to move based on a business decision.

[johnking123]

New stand or new stadium. What ever we do. It should be for the next generation of Hearts supporters. Think it will take a lot more than a new main stand to get Tynecastle up to date. Will most likly cost around 14 to 20 million to get it to last another 30 years.

[Yoda]

A question from the floor spoke about Alan Stubbs claim that Hibs play the best football and was wondering if Robbie used this as motivation for the team. After Craig had picked himself off the floor and managed to quell his laughter he pointed that we only really concentrate on our own game and the game next week. Robbie he says is a hard working individual and is fully focused on the team. He also said it was Robbies job to pick the team from the squad available to him.

 

I'm a bit of a lip reader and when Alan Stubbs comment was mentioned, I''m sure Ann said "that Stubbs is a complete bell-end".  Could be wrong.

[Don Dan]

I'm a bit of a lip reader and when Alan Stubbs comment was mentioned, I''m sure Ann said "that Stubbs is a complete bell-end". Could be wrong.

Lip reader, mind reader, I think to a man/woman everybody thought the same, a complete and utter bell-end.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DETTY29]

Has anyone mentioned we are getting new astroturf edging (it was described as carpet) round the pitch?

 

Should have been delivered and laid by now however there is a slight delay as instead of going for green, we have decided on maroon.

 

Should be installed for Hibs game.

 

Eric Hogg described the current edging as a death trap and we have already taken out 2 linesman this season.

[Francis Albert]

Has anyone mentioned we are getting new astroturf edging (it was described as carpet) round the pitch?

 

Should have been delivered and laid by now however there is a slight delay as instead of going for green, we have decided on maroon.

 

Should be installed for Hibs game.

 

Eric Hogg described the current edging as a death trap and we have already taken out 2 linesman this season.

If so I'd have been tempted to keep it.

[Eastender]

After the meeting I raised the HOMST shares issue with Jaqui Duncan(club secretary) and gave her contact details that I had for them will see if that helps unblock the log jam

Cheers, Keith ... keep us informed if you hear anything !

[richiehmfc]

So if we base it on the forecast figures, the ratio would be 62%, which seems acceptable enough given where we are.  Obviously, if we do strengthen in January that figure will rise, but I wouldn't be concerned if it meant we gain promotion at the first opportunity.

 

The ?1m additional revenues for reaching the Premiership is a minimum, it could be significantly higher depending on where we finish in the league and I think our current squad should be capable of top 6, even before we strengthen any further, which I presume we would do.

 

Added to that, I assume we will have a shirt sponsor next season, which will bring in more money.  And (pipe dream I know) maybe Doncaster will managed to find a sponsor for the Premiership, which again would add to our revenues.

 

Against that, I wonder how many of our players may be on contracts that have increases built in should we return to the top division.

My mind is maybe playing tricks on me as I didn't take notes but I though Eric Hogg said that these were the projected staff costs but actual percentage so far of Staff costs to turnover was 44% due to the increase in our revenue streams

[Footballfirst]

Summary of questions answered

 

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4050

[harvey05]

Summary of questions answered

 

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4050

 

Well done Double F

[Francis Albert]

Not sure about the answer to Q21. As I read it under the Bidco/FoH agreement Bidco can terminate if the working capital obligations of FoH are not met, in which case Bidco is no longer obliged to sell FoH any shares. To say the working capital contributions are not part of the purchase deal therefore seems a slightly misleading way

of looking at it.

[Footballfirst]

Not sure about the answer to Q21. As I read it under the Bidco/FoH agreement Bidco can terminate if the working capital obligations of FoH are not met, in which case Bidco is no longer obliged to sell FoH any shares. To say the working capital contributions are not part of the purchase deal therefore seems a slightly misleading way

of looking at it.

 

According to the documents published on 9th May, the HMFC/BIDCO loan agreement is only contingent on the ?1M up front cash from FOH.

 

However, the BIDCO/FOH funding agreement makes the transfer of shares contingent on the Initial payment (?1M), the total funding commitment (?2.8M), full participation in the Senior Loan (?2.4M + interest + arrangement fee), plus payment for the shares (?100k)

[Don Dan]

Q21 was one of mine as its seems to be a misconception that these initial sums are buying the club when in actual fact they are not.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mutley]

Who asked Q19?

What else were they expected to say. Na we don't fancy ever playing in Europe again

[Francis Albert]

Q21 was one of mine as its seems to be a misconception that these initial sums are buying the club when in actual fact they are not.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've not really read or heard that misconception anywhere. Some (including me) have said they are part of the cost to FoH of ultimately buying the club, which I don't think is a misconception. Another way of putting it I suppose is that FoH has to pay these sums before it gets the right to buy the shares.

[Don Dan]

I've not really read or heard that misconception anywhere. Some (including me) have said they are part of the cost to FoH of ultimately buying the club, which I don't think is a misconception. Another way of putting it I suppose is that FoH has to pay these sums before it gets the right to buy the shares.

These monies The ?1m and The ?1.4m are not buying the club they are paying for the costs associated with "running" the club. The benefits are very obvious and enjoyed by all.

If your buying a car on HP there is a capital cost of ?2.5m plus vat and fees and then there running costs like petrol and servicing. We are buying Hearts and the costs are only ?2.5m plus Vat and fees.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Francis Albert]

These monies The ?1m and The ?1.4m are not buying the club they are paying for the costs associated with "running" the club. The benefits are very obvious and enjoyed by all.

If your buying a car on HP there is a capital cost of ?2.5m plus vat and fees and then there running costs like petrol and servicing. We are buying Hearts and the costs are only ?2.5m plus Vat and fees.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

?1m and ?2.8m.

Analogies are rarely helpful. If I buy a car I don't usually pay running costs, repairs and maintenance for two years before I start making the HP payments to buy the car. You could counter

that in this case we are enjoying use of the car in the interim period. I just think saying FoH is buying the club for ?2.5m plus interest understates how big a contribution FoH (ie us) are making and what we are required to do to buy the shares, and that to suggest it is not part of the purchase deal is a little misleading.

[Don Dan]

?1m and ?2.8m.Analogies are rarely helpful. If I buy a car I don't usually pay running costs, repairs and maintenance for two years before I start making the HP payments to buy the car. You could counterthat in this case we are enjoying use of the car in the interim period. I just think saying FoH is buying the club for ?2.5m plus interest understates how big a contribution FoH (ie us) are making and what we are required to do to buy the shares, and that to suggest it is not part of the purchase deal is a little misleading.

Buy now Pay later? an every day deal. I'm not misled. These cost are not buying the club. It's unfortunate you were unable to make the AGM as Ann explained the concept very clearly and nobody present challenged or object to her answer.

[Francis Albert]

Buy now Pay later? an every day deal. I'm not misled. These cost are not buying the club. It's unfortunate you were unable to make the AGM as Ann explained the concept very clearly and nobody present challenged or object to her answer.

"Pay now buy later" is less usual. There are two ways of describing this. One is that the direct cost to FoH of buying a majority shareholding is ?2.5m plus interest, as

Ann liked to describe it. Another way of describing the arrangement is that FoH has to pay over ?3.8m before it gets the right to buy a single share and that FoH will have paid about

?7m before it secures a majority holding. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the deal just that the second description IMO better describes the transaction.

[Don Dan]

"Pay now buy later" is less usual. There are two ways of describing this. One is that the direct cost to FoH of buying a majority shareholding is ?2.5m plus interest, asAnn liked to describe it. Another way of describing the arrangement is that FoH has to pay over ?3.8m before it gets the right to buy a single share and that FoH will have paid about?7m before it secures a majority holding. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the deal just that the second description IMO better describes the transaction.

Ah well if that's your take on it fare enough it's certainly not mine or the vast majority of the fans. Ann was quite adamant about exactly where the monies are going. We could have bought the club first but I doubt it would have lasted. We need a ?1m plus up front before we opened the dressing room door, then there was day to day running costs but that seems to have escaped you. Fortunately we have Ann running the club and happy to wait 2 years befor she sees a penny of her money back whilst we as fans see the team on the park every game. That for me is it.

[Jammy T]

I'm delighted my payments to FOH are a direct component of the success we are having this season.

 

Delighted.

[Francis Albert]

Ah well if that's your take on it fare enough it's certainly not mine or the vast majority of the fans. Ann was quite adamant about exactly where the monies are going. We could have bought the club first but I doubt it would have lasted. We need a ?1m plus up front before we opened the dressing room door, then there was day to day running costs but that seems to have escaped you. Fortunately we have Ann running the club and happy to wait 2 years befor she sees a penny of her money back whilst we as fans see the team on the park every game. That for me is it.

I am not ignoring running costs. Just clarifying the contribution to them FoH is obliged to make as a pre-condition in the agreement which provides for FoH then to pay a further ?2.5m plus interest to buy shares. I really don't think that's my "take on it" but a statement of fact. If the vast majority of fans think differently then they are wrong.

[Francis Albert]

I'm delighted my payments to FOH are a direct component of the success we are having this season.

 

Delighted.

So am I.

 

(Do I have to say delighted twice?)

[Mucky Fingers]

If so I'd have been tempted to keep it.

 

[Don Dan]

I am not ignoring running costs. Just clarifying the contribution to them FoH is obliged to make as a pre-condition in the agreement which provides for FoH then to pay a further ?2.5m plus interest to buy shares. I really don't think that's my "take on it" but a statement of fact. If the vast majority of fans think differently then they are wrong.

Ann Budge

 

In my opinion, the appropriate way to view this is that the cost of purchase is ?2.5m (i.e. what Bidco paid for the club) plus interest on the capital loan. It is important to understand that the first 2 years of FOH monies are working capital contributions and not part of any purchase agreement."

 

Is that not plain enough for you and don't forget this was all done legally.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Footballfirst]

Ann Budge

 

In my opinion, the appropriate way to view this is that the cost of purchase is ?2.5m (i.e. what Bidco paid for the club) plus interest on the capital loan. It is important to understand that the first 2 years of FOH monies are working capital contributions and not part of any purchase agreement."

 

Is that not plain enough for you and don't forget this was all done legally.

 

Extracts from the BIDCO / FOH Funding Agreement

6. TRANSFER OF SALE SHARES TO THE FOUNDATION

6.1 Subject to the Foundation satisfying all of the conditions set out in clause 6.2 below (or the written waiver of any of the conditions in clause 6.2 below by Bidco) and in consideration of the Foundation paying an amount to Bidco equal to the purchase price which Bidco paid for the Sale Shares (the date upon which such payment is made by the Foundation being the "Transfer Date"), Bidco shall transfer the legal and beneficial interest in the Sale Shares to the Foundation and shall:

:

:

:

6.2 The conditions referred to in clause 6.1 are that the Foundation has:

6.2.1 made the Initial Foundation Payment in accordance with clause 2,

6.2.2 made the Total Funding Commitment in accordance with clause 5,

6.2.3 obtained the consent of Bidco to any changes to the corporate structure, constitution, board membership or management team of the Foundation in accordance with clause 9.4, and that Bidco, acting reasonably, is satisfied that the obligation in clause 9.4 has been satisfied,

6.2.4 fully participated in the Senior Loan in accordance with the terms of this agreement, and

6.2.5 provided the Deed of Adherence executed and dated by it.

 

That is also a legal agreement which makes the working capital injections pre-conditions to the share transfer.

[Don Dan]

One way to look at this is there is buying the club and funding the club. The ?2.5m plus is buying the club the other monies are funding the club. If it wasn't for the the initial ?1m (?1.3m) and the ?1.4m (?2.4m) the club would not have existed.

[Kiwidoug]

Bedroom Tax vote? Today in Westminster.

 

 

Bedroom tax?

 

Don't tell me what it is.  I just don't want to know.

 

I had a very sheltered upbringing.

[SUTOL]

Bedroom tax?

 

Don't tell me what it is.  I just don't want to know.

 

I had a very sheltered upbringing.

 

If a person or family that gets 'housing benefits', i.e their rent paid by the state, and have for example a two bedroom house but are a single occupier with no 'need' for a second bedroom, the government are not paying the full benefit to cover the extra bedroom(s). 

 

Some people seem to object to having to pay for their lifetsyle choice and object to the state not funding their spare room(s). Hence the debates. 

[JamboAl]

"Pay now buy later" is less usual. There are two ways of describing this. One is that the direct cost to FoH of buying a majority shareholding is ?2.5m plus interest, as

Ann liked to describe it. Another way of describing the arrangement is that FoH has to pay over ?3.8m before it gets the right to buy a single share and that FoH will have paid about

?7m before it secures a majority holding. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the deal just that the second description IMO better describes the transaction.

More common than you think.

This Christmas I'll be surprised if I don't finish up with M&S vouchers, vouchers for the golf club etc etc.

Same principle. Pay in advance of buying.

[upgotheheads]

If a person or family that gets 'housing benefits', i.e their rent paid by the state, and have for example a two bedroom house but are a single occupier with no 'need' for a second bedroom, the government are not paying the full benefit to cover the extra bedroom(s). 

 

Some people seem to object to having to pay for their lifetsyle choice and object to the state not funding their spare room(s). Hence the debates. 

 

This a completely unwarranted attack on our dear Queen. It's not her fault that she lives in a castle with scores of bedrooms that she doesn't need.  It's where we've sent her for goodness sake.

 

Shame on you!

[Francis Albert]

Ann Budge

 

In my opinion, the appropriate way to view this is that the cost of purchase is ?2.5m (i.e. what Bidco paid for the club) plus interest on the capital loan. It is important to understand that the first 2 years of FOH monies are working capital contributions and not part of any purchase agreement."

 

Is that not plain enough for you and don't forget this was all done legally.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes I read Ann's reply. The fact is the purchase is contingent on the working capital funding so it is slightly misleading IMO to say the working capital contributions are not

part of any purchase agreement. Without delivery of the working capital contributions there is no purchase agreement. And of course it was all done legally - no-one has disputed that.

[Francis Albert]

More common than you think.

This Christmas I'll be surprised if I don't finish up with M&S vouchers, vouchers for the golf club etc etc.

Same principle. Pay in advance of buying.

FoH's upfront working capital payments don't give us vouchers for paying for shares or discounts, just the right to buy them. As I said, analogies rarely work perfectly.

[luckydug]

This a completely unwarranted attack on our dear Queen. It's not her fault that she lives in a castle with scores of bedrooms that she doesn't need.  It's where we've sent her for goodness sake.

 

Shame on you!

 

Aye she is a dear queen .

Our Queen Ann works for free and some are still not satisfied.

[FarmerTweedy]

Who asked Q19?

What else were they expected to say. Na we don't fancy ever playing in Europe again

 

The actual question asked at the meeting was, with reference to Basel's Champions League results against Liverpool and our result in Basel some years back, whether the board felt that the club could aspire to at some time in the future reach the sort of level Basel have achieved.  The answer given, IIRC, was that they hope to be back in Europe in two or three years.

[JamboAl]

FoH's upfront working capital payments don't give us vouchers for paying for shares or discounts, just the right to buy them. As I said, analogies rarely work perfectly.

I think the words you used were "Pay now, buy later".

I gave perfect examples of that.

Maybe you chose the wrong words to illustrate the point.

[Francis Albert]

I think the words you used were "Pay now, buy later".

I gave perfect examples of that.

Maybe you chose the wrong words to illustrate the point.

you may well be right though i think your examples were pay now buy now, where what is bought is a voucher or discount for future purchases. That's the trouble with analogies - you end up discussing the merits of the analogy!

[jambali]

Club would presumably look to buy the building to use as museum and secure site for longer term stand development.

step too far there...