Plan B

[Bazzas right boot]

Great win yesterday and 9 points clear. Well above my expectations

 

We can now hammer home our advantage and could be double figures clear of second by the time we play Rangers again.

 

However, I have a little concern.

 

It is clear that we aim to build from the back, going through Gomis/ Bauben/ Pallardo.

 

Teams are now aware of this and in the last two games we have had spells were we have lost control of the game for large periods.

 

Yesterday, Gomis was hounded by Miller/ Black and was caught several times, once leading to a booking and it was clear once they got a man sent off that Gomis and Pallardo got that extra space and we started to slowly take control. I was concerned upto the sending off as we were losing possession very easily and El Hass ( who isn't a lone striker) was very isolated.

 

Falkirk worked that out in the second half, and as teams wake up to our game and press higher, we need a plan B if our normal game isn't working. Hib's pressed us well as well and in both games we have struggled for control.

 

If teams press higher, it should create space elsewhere and we can take advantage, however as yet I haven't seen a plan B yet.

 

It may just be the case that Keatings/ Sow will give us a different option.

 

Is it just me being to pessimistic or will have bigger problems as the season progress's and teams wise up?

[dc-jambo]

It is true that teams such as Falkirk have been more effective against us lately, by trying to stifle Gomis and Prince.

 

However I have to point out that Wilson, Prince, Gomis and Sow are, for me, the core of our team.

 

Yesterday we were without three of them and still won our most important fixture!!

 

We don't need a plan B, we need to keep expanding and improving on plan A

[Do The Dance]

We just need to be better and smarter in possession and work around the team that presses. If we lump it forward, for instance, we'll lose possession with that more often than not too.

 

Players that are not in possession simply have to move to create the angle for the pass, that wasn't happening enough, in the first half especially. If a team presses it should open up more available passes in a forward area.

 

We also can't just rely on Gomis all the time, he is superb in his movement and always looks for the ball.

[1953]

I completely agree hotcurrie but have no idea what the answer could be. Robbie and Craig will work it out though.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Teams have been aware of what we do all season. Neilson has repeatedly stated what we do, in the media. We are still unbeaten in the league, because despite knowing what we do, other teams are unable to do anything to stop us doing what we do.

[Swarlos]

Everyone knows how we play now but that doesn't mean they know how to stop it.

When we move the ball about like we can we can tear teams in this league apart.

 

There have been times where we've resorted to the long ball but it's been a while since we've had a striker who can deal with long balls well.

[IMA MAROON]

Rangers took off the striker Miller for the defender Foster to go for the draw.

 

We put on Keatings. That is a Plan B.

 

?Dale Carrick is quick, makes runs in behind and closes people down. Gary Oliver drops in and plays more in the No.10 role. Soufian El Hassnaoui is more of an all-round guy who can do just about anything for us. He?s a clever player who can bring people into play. James Keatings is a penalty-box player. If teams are sitting in, he?s got clever movement to get himself on the ball. Sow has real blistering pace, so there?s lots of variety.? - Neilson

[Dallas Green]

We had a plan b. Boot it up to sow. It didn't work.

 

We also still try it with El Hass.

 

We are still unbeaten with our style of play. I think we can go the season.

[McCrae]

i think we will step up another gear once our strikers are all fully fit. It's in the last 3rd that we have found it more difficult recently. El Hass doesn't look like he can play the lone striker position well. Huge difference when Keatings came on. I don't think many teams will be able to handle our midfield trio of Prince , Gomis and Pollardo.

[Bauld]

We have a plan B.

 

Ozturk.

[Diego10]

Plan A is win the game. To me that's working very well.

[Bazzas right boot]

Kind of agree with some of the posts

 

We won without the spine of our team yesterday, although I think the red card was important. winning without Wilson, Sow and Bauben is a real  positive.

 

We have won our games upto now, however football is fluid and the " if it ain't broken, don't fix it" shouldn't apply. As teams adapt, we may/ may not need to as well, we should do it sooner rather than later if there are signs that things are not quite working

 

It is clear to me that in the past 5 games, teams have switched on to our style and the games are becoming more difficult, not just to win, but actually control  and boss. Admittedly it was against 4/5 of the better sides in the league.

 

It might just be that with a our full compliment and an actual striker with movement up front, it will be ok.

 

Keatings( I have man love for this guy) did make a huge difference.

[Nelly Terraces]

Good debate. Think yesterday we could easily have gone with 2 up front & given their centre half's more problems (I thought they had a pretty easy afternoon), and also be a bit more direct by running at them instead of slow build up play - we have the skill & pace to do this.

 

That all said, however, these are mere tweeks that could possibly be made, and I'm more than chuffed with what we've achieved thus far and positive Robbie knows exactly what he's doing to enable us to win games. It's all good.

[underwaterwoodwelder]

Bringing keatings on around the 60th minute is a great plan b. However I trust robbie that much now that I believe that man has a plan b, c, d and even right up the alphabet if he needed too. The guy is different gravy!

[underwaterwoodwelder]

Bringing keatings on around the 60th minute is a great plan b. However I trust robbie that much now that I believe that man has a plan b, c, d and even right up the alphabet if he needed too. The guy is different gravy!

[Getintaethem]

Think the problem has been more to do with injuries to key players and a dip in form from our wingers rather than a lack of tactical nous from the management team. I'm sure we'll see different tactics for different games this season, once we get our injured players back we'll have a whole new set of options.

[Francis Albert]

If any Plan B involves punting long balls forward and losing possession more often than not, no thanks. I must admit I was shouting for that tactic in the last 5 minutes of the Hibs game, Fortunately Robbie Neilson is a football manager and I am not.

[Guest oldcastlerock2012]

We need a "Plan B"?

 

Surely we've seen enough from our coaching team to know that we have a Plan, B, C and D. Robbie admitted we practice playing with 10 men in case we get a red card. I'm sure we also practice for when the other team goes to 10 men and dozens of other in match scenarios. I've never seen a Hearts team this well drilled and working this well as a unit.

 

The injuries we've had this season means workarounds being created rather than sticking to plans. El Hass is our only fully fit striker right now and even he's not fully match fit it seems. We've also had to chop and change our defence and midfield this season for several key games. The most important thing is we've kept picking up points!

[The White Cockade]

I think we have a plan B

start of the season we played great, expansive attacking passing football

and had some big wins and great to watch

More recently when we have not been on top form or have had hard fixtures we have played it a lot tighter

First half against Rangers we were actually pretty negative and nobody was getting up to support the striker

Even in the second half when we were doing well we didn't get many men in their box

Sometimes you have to grind out the win

Not as pretty but so far pretty effective

I can't see us being unbeaten all season but as long as Sow and Wilson are fit soon I think we will be

back on top form and scoring goals for fun

tof the league at the New Year for sure and think we have a great chance of winning the league

Can see Hibs giving Rangers a run for second as well

[naeclue]

I think Carrick was great at pulling teams around with his running off the ball and making space for others.  Sow often comes short for a pass and the defense won't follow them. Rangers were just waiting on King or Walker dropping short and took great pleasure going through the back of them. 

 

I think a pass behind the defense (as opposed to a HIbs style hoof) is something that we could add.

 

But if we can play through a teams pressing defense, then they are wide open. 

[bighusref]

We've only dropped four points all season. This plan is a plan I'm happy with.

[N User]

We changed our game a number of times yesterday.

We started slow and calm to get settled and control. Once they got the red, we didn't change really - just controlled easier.

 

Keatings coming on changed the entire style of our build up play.

Later on we brought on McGhee and played with 3 at the back (possible sweeper?)

 

Tactics were adapted to the game.

[Dazo]

We've only dropped four points all season. This plan is a plan I'm happy with.

Absolutely this. I think it is doing the coach team a massive disservice by saying we need or don't have a plan b. Like all plans you rely on the players performing for it work. The players really have performed superbly for most of the season but sometimes the level of performance drops so we allow teams to impose there game on us. Hasn't happened a lot but when it does plan a, b or c wouldn't make a blind bit of difference IMO.

[The Wicker Man]

Sadly that's indicative of the Scottish leagues - teams play one another so many times a season - it's the subtle changes in style of the player that make the difference.

What impresses me this season is we play to the final whistle and the belief the players have in themselves and the team.

[Debut 4]

Hearts style takes time in harder games to settle into.

 

Teams will obviously set out to hound us but eventually we control the game.

 

Don't see a problem, do people expect us to immediately dominate games against stronger sides with intent to unsettle us?

 

Plan B comes when you maybe get to 65,70 mins and haven't looked like scoring or getting back into a game if behind.

[Guest oldcastlerock2012]

What I like about our Plan A, apart from the fact it works, is we stick to it rather than feel pressured into changing. Even at 1-0 down against Hibs in the 93rd minute or whatever we continued to play football when Bauben chose to pass to Ozturk and he chose to go forward rather than either of them just hoof it into the box. We got our reward with the equalizer and have scored a few other late goals. Having the confidence to stick to one main plan is a good thing.

[Whitecapjambo]

The only criticism I have of the current system is sometimes we don't seem to move the ball quickly enough. There is a wide variety of opposition in the league and it is clear that vs the better teams we need to shift the ball a little more fluently. Gomis, while the linchpin of our team, can get harried and caught at times.

[leginten]

Hearts style takes time in harder games to settle into.

Teams will obviously set out to hound us but eventually we control the game.

Don't see a problem, do people expect us to immediately dominate games against stronger sides with intent to unsettle us?

Plan B comes when you maybe get to 65,70 mins and haven't looked like scoring or getting back into a game if behind.

Exactly this. Patience has been the key so far this season in games where we have struggled to dominate the early stages.

[scott herbertson]

The heavier pitches and the lack of Carrick's pace up front have reduced our options a bit.

 

I'll be interested to see what happens when  Carrick's fit again

 

One things sure - in the run in when the weather's better we'll see more of King Walker, Carrick and Nicholson running at defences. Given we've also got Sow, Keatings, El Hass and Oliver we have  many permutations once more of them are fit

[Guest oldcastlerock2012]

Great win yesterday and 9 points clear. Well above my expectations

 

We can now hammer home our advantage and could be double figures clear of second by the time we play Rangers again.

 

However, I have a little concern.

 

It is clear that we aim to build from the back, going through Gomis/ Bauben/ Pallardo.

 

Teams are now aware of this and in the last two games we have had spells were we have lost control of the game for large periods.

 

Yesterday, Gomis was hounded by Miller/ Black and was caught several times, once leading to a booking and it was clear once they got a man sent off that Gomis and Pallardo got that extra space and we started to slowly take control. I was concerned upto the sending off as we were losing possession very easily and El Hass ( who isn't a lone striker) was very isolated.

 

Falkirk worked that out in the second half, and as teams wake up to our game and press higher, we need a plan B if our normal game isn't working. Hib's pressed us well as well and in both games we have struggled for control.

 

If teams press higher, it should create space elsewhere and we can take advantage, however as yet I haven't seen a plan B yet.

 

It may just be the case that Keatings/ Sow will give us a different option.

 

Is it just me being to pessimistic or will have bigger problems as the season progress's and teams wise up?

 

Teams have already wised up to how we play but that doesn't mean we need to change our game. Part of our plan is keeping possession as teams run around madly trying to press us. They get tired, gaps appear and our superior fitness lets us grab late goals and see games out when we have to. Our plan A is pretty good to be fair and we we've often changed things by bringing on different types of players according to how the game is going which I guess is the same as a plan b.

[Bazzas right boot]

Plan A is "pretty" good and done us well so far.

 

I have just felt that in the past  few games, against the better teams we have struggled. Hibs, Raith, Falkirk ( 2nd half), Rangers ( before sendng off) as they seem to Mark Gomis and press higher up, we make mistakes and create less as a result.

 

As a few posters have  said, we have had key players out, and it may mean that the return of these players makes a big difference.

 

As I said, I was asking about a plan B if plan A isn't working, not actually suggesting we change our style or set up as the norm, only if it ain't working, for example against Hibs and Falkirk second half where we could have dropped more points, and we seemed unable to adapt our game to counter theirs. If teams continue in that vain we might find ourselves dropping more points.

 

 

In Robbie we trust tho, not suggesting we start punting the ball from back to front!

[Guest oldcastlerock2012]

Plan A is "pretty" good and done us well so far.

 

I have just felt that in the past  few games, against the better teams we have struggled. Hibs, Raith, Falkirk ( 2nd half), Rangers ( before sendng off) as they seem to Mark Gomis and press higher up, we make mistakes and create less as a result.

 

 

But is that not part of our "Plan A"? Teams know we play from the back and press us, but we know they will press us and aim to soak it up and exploit gaps.

[RobNox]

Good debate. Think yesterday we could easily have gone with 2 up front & given their centre half's more problems (I thought they had a pretty easy afternoon), and also be a bit more direct by running at them instead of slow build up play - we have the skill & pace to do this.

 

That all said, however, these are mere tweeks that could possibly be made, and I'm more than chuffed with what we've achieved thus far and positive Robbie knows exactly what he's doing to enable us to win games. It's all good.

I was hoping we would do this after they were reduced to 10 men.  Having said that, we'd have been back to 1 up front after El Hass was hacked off the park.  Hopefully we'll soon have 4 fully fit strikers to choose from and can vary our options as we were able to do earlier in the season.

[portobellojambo1]

We have a style of play, a plan if you like, and a quick glance at the league table suggests it is working just fine. Knowing how the opposition plays, and actually stopping it are two different things, and I can see no reason why we have to fundamentally change the way in which we are playing at the moment.Sometimes the style of play will realise 4 or 5 goals, some times, as against Raith Rovers recently, it may only realise 1. But in each case if the number of goals we score exceeds the number the opposition score we will get three points. To me plan B should consist of ensuring the players stick rigidly to plan A, and let the other teams do the worrying and changing, because if we keep succeeding we will keep our place at the top of the league, no need to over complicate things by putting doubts in the players minds.

[Mikey1874]

Think the problem has been more to do with injuries to key players and a dip in form from our wingers rather than a lack of tactical nous from the management team. I'm sure we'll see different tactics for different games this season, once we get our injured players back we'll have a whole new set of options.

yep

 

we've only had 1 fit striker including El Hass only able to do 60 minutes or so and Keatings 30

 

much more variety once the front men are fit

[Norm]

We've only dropped four points all season. This plan is a plan I'm happy with.

Yup.

 

Surely you only need a plan B if plan A doesn't work. And as mentioned earlier, plan B is Alim. Which also seems to work.

[Howardo]

Agree that plan A is working well and Robbie has shown that he is quite capable of adapting to suit the opposition and conditions.  I am delighted that the players all seem to understand the system and their role in the team.  How may times during the Romanov era did we see teams going out without an understanding of the system?  

[Bazzas right boot]

General view then-

[2NaFish]

Plan A runs teams ragged. If folk aren't happy because we're not asserting ourselves in the final third early on, then they don't understand Plan A.

[maroonnicky63]

Great win yesterday and 9 points clear. Well above my expectations

 

We can now hammer home our advantage and could be double figures clear of second by the time we play Rangers again.

 

However, I have a little concern.

 

It is clear that we aim to build from the back, going through Gomis/ Bauben/ Pallardo.

 

Teams are now aware of this and in the last two games we have had spells were we have lost control of the game for large periods.

 

Yesterday, Gomis was hounded by Miller/ Black and was caught several times, once leading to a booking and it was clear once they got a man sent off that Gomis and Pallardo got that extra space and we started to slowly take control. I was concerned upto the sending off as we were losing possession very easily and El Hass ( who isn't a lone striker) was very isolated.

 

Falkirk worked that out in the second half, and as teams wake up to our game and press higher, we need a plan B if our normal game isn't working. Hib's pressed us well as well and in both games we have struggled for control.

 

If teams press higher, it should create space elsewhere and we can take advantage, however as yet I haven't seen a plan B yet.

 

It may just be the case that Keatings/ Sow will give us a different option.

 

Is it just me being to pessimistic or will have bigger problems as the season progress's and teams wise up?

we can't get carried away , step back have a look at the full picture , we were very poor in the first half and very lucky yo go in 0 0 .I know some wil say ''rubbish'' but it's true but most imortantly we are winning, this was not our strongest side so thats a plus.Reading some of the comments we are getting carried away to soon there is a long way to go and if any fans know this it's '' the jambos '' calm down

[Libertonian_II]

Hotcurrie makes a very valid point. While you can't argue with the results, the way we're achieving them could perhaps be open to scrutiny.

 

I think that the wide positions have been our weakest part of the team recently as King/Walker/Nicolson have underperformed, Walker's exception being the derby game. Billy King has done very little for some time now while Nicolson has been benched after some poor performances, albeit while playing a more central role rather than out wide where he is far better.

[Cardiac Rucksack]

Not much to do with plan A or B but I'd like us to mix it up when we get around the 18 yard box a bit more, we at times want to walk it in. I think the majority of teams have worked this out and have decided to sit off us (yes ozturk @ hibs aside) and they close the space for us to be intricate, start smacking a few shots from distance when they drop of will make them think twice about sitting off and and in turn create more space for the intricacy. Just my thoughts

[Diego10]

Not much to do with plan A or B but I'd like us to mix it up when we get around the 18 yard box a bit more, we at times want to walk it in. I think the majority of teams have worked this out and have decided to sit off us (yes ozturk @ hibs aside) and they close the space for us to be intricate, start smacking a few shots from distance when they drop of will make them think twice about sitting off and and in turn create more space for the intricacy. Just my thoughts

we've scored about 10 goals from outside the box this season. I'm

[Bauld]

we can't get carried away , step back have a look at the full picture , we were very poor in the first half and very lucky yo go in 0 0 .I know some wil say ''rubbish'' but it's true but most imortantly we are winning, this was not our strongest side so thats a plus.Reading some of the comments we are getting carried away to soon there is a long way to go and if any fans know this it's '' the jambos '' calm down

I know a lot has been made of the first half performance but the more I think about it the more I think we played a blinder.

 

We remained calm and composed while they went full throttle as we knew they would, when they went down to 10 men they became even more desperate. Still we remained calm. Every time they got a dodgy free kick near our box and they piled the big men up I thought ''here we go'' but we defended superbly. Half time came and from that moment it was a matter of time before we scored because we went in well on top. After half time we kept it tight but slowly started to open up a bit more, as soon as Keatings came on we unleashed the beast got our goal and went straight back to keeping things simple and tight again then when they began to tire out we opened up again and killed the game.

 

Frankly the whole thing was a masterclass from Robbie and co on how to adapt without leaving yourself too vulnerable.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

I thought this thread title may have been sevco related, when 1 down and reluctant to try and get possession back, when they did it was one dimensional lump into the eighteen yarder. Found myself thinking about us at ER 1 down and a man down we tried to play football to the final whistle. No need for a plan B as yet for us.

[Cardiac Rucksack]

we've scored about 10 goals from outside the box this season. I'm

Is it really that many? I've got both alims, keatings at raith (set piece), Sam against hibs, couple against livi, prince at queens, that's 7 out of 36, I think we need to mix it up a bit. Have a dig a bit more often, not so much a criticism and more a plea to be less predictable

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Is it really that many? I've got both alims, keatings at raith (set piece), Sam against hibs, couple against livi, prince at queens, that's 7 out of 36, I think we need to mix it up a bit. Have a dig a bit more often, not so much a criticism and more a plea to be less predictable

Wasn't one of Carricks outside the box?

[Cardiac Rucksack]

Wasn't one of Carricks outside the box?

yeah I think you are right and holts was prob outside the box as well. I think my actual point is that when we are going from side to side against the lesser teams and not shooting, we make it easy for them to sit off and know we are going to try and walk it in. Having the odd crack at goal stops the, from doing this and blocking the space.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

yeah I think you are right and holts was prob outside the box as well. I think my actual point is that when we are going from side to side against the lesser teams and not shooting, we make it easy for them to sit off and know we are going to try and walk it in. Having the odd crack at goal stops the, from doing this and blocking the space.

There was a huge gap between strikers and midfield quite often on Saturday, and I think Robbie was aware of it, and perfectly happy about it, and it worked out well so I wouldn't be criticising him for anything right now. I do know what you are getting at though.

 

One point I would make, is every bit of footage I can recall seeing of El Hass scoring at his previous clubs have been of him operating outside the box behind a more orthodox centreforward, so maybe this is something we will see more of once big Osman returns?

[2205ian]

I know a lot has been made of the first half performance but the more I think about it the more I think we played a blinder.

 

We remained calm and composed while they went full throttle as we knew they would, when they went down to 10 men they became even more desperate. Still we remained calm. Every time they got a dodgy free kick near our box and they piled the big men up I thought ''here we go'' but we defended superbly. Half time came and from that moment it was a matter of time before we scored because we went in well on top. After half time we kept it tight but slowly started to open up a bit more, as soon as Keatings came on we unleashed the beast got our goal and went straight back to keeping things simple and tight again then when they began to tire out we opened up again and killed the game.

 

Frankly the whole thing was a masterclass from Robbie and co on how to adapt without leaving yourself too vulnerable.

Great summary of our game plan. We remained patient & disciplined in the face of thuggery!!! Did not get drawn into a "kicking match" especially with The Rangers players trying to influence ref to even up the numbers when we committed any offence.

 

We controlled the second half & ran them ragged chasing shadows at times. This is no different from many other games this season when we have scored a lot of goals in the last 10 minutes as a result of our superior fitness & tactical nous.

 

With regards to Plan A, B etc, it is evident that Robbie is continually reviewing progress throughout all games especially with his variety of substitutions dependent on circumstances on the day.

 

December will be (another) important month considering our fixture programme, with the caveat that football matches are won on the pitch, not on paper. With Robbie's & the team's continual attention to detail & level of performance, we could be in a very healthy position having completed the 1st half of the season.

 

Having suffered the pundits on Sportscene tonight, here's hoping we continue to perform "not very well" & add another 4 wins.....not forgetting we only take 1 game at a time )

 

PS....It was great to view Robbie's "tackle" again in 2006 Scottish Cup Final on Sky's "The Club That Vanished" (Gretna) earlier tonight. Excellent documentary worthy of viewing.