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If English Clubs...


Guest Bilel Mohsni

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

... Received the same shite TV money as Scottish clubs, and it all came down to revenue from the turnstiles and ticket office, where about would we currently sit in terms of cash strength, based on this season's attendances.

 

Would we be top 10/15?

 

 

 

 

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

English clubs usually get bigger crowds.

 

So on that probably 20ish.

 

If that's where we would land, that would be pretty decent, when you consider the number of professional teams in Scotland and England.

 

Shame we do not have the 20th biggest budget in Britain.

 

 

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If that's where we would land, that would be pretty decent, when you consider the number of professional teams in Scotland and England.

 

Shame we do not have the 20th biggest budget in Britain.

 

Until English football's Sky bubble burst then the gap will just get bigger and bigger.

 

I do think it will burst though.

 

When it does Scottish football will be relatively unaffected as we get peanuts anyway.

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kingantti1874

 

 

Until English football's Sky bubble burst then the gap will just get bigger and bigger.

 

I do think it will burst though.

 

When it does Scottish football will be relatively unaffected as we get peanuts anyway.

 

It won't burst. It determined the success or otherwise of the TV company who owns the rights. Scottish football will never achieve 1% of the EPL

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Until English football's Sky bubble burst then the gap will just get bigger and bigger.

 

I do think it will burst though.

 

When it does Scottish football will be relatively unaffected as we get peanuts anyway.

There was a time that I thought this would happen, but not any more. There may be a reduction of cash in relative terms, but the global nature of the premiership is incredible. I was in a pub full of Mongolians (I kid you not) after watching the derby with London Hearts last week and the place was evenly split between Chelsea and United. Every one of them passionate about their club because they'd watched them since childhood in their home country. It's a reality we just have to accept.

 

In terms of the original question, no way are we anywhere near the top 20. Every premiership club, half the championship and some of the first division in England get bigger gates than us. I'd say we're somewhere around 35-40.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

There was a time that I thought this would happen, but not any more. There may be a reduction of cash in relative terms, but the global nature of the premiership is incredible. I was in a pub full of Mongolians (I kid you not) after watching the derby with London Hearts last week and the place was evenly split between Chelsea and United. Every one of them passionate about their club because they'd watched them since childhood in their home country. It's a reality we just have to accept.

 

In terms of the original question, no way are we anywhere near the top 20. Every premiership club, half the championship and some of the first division in England get bigger gates than us. I'd say we're somewhere around 35-40.

 

35-40?

 

I would be amazed if that is the case.

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It won't burst. It determined the success or otherwise of the TV company who owns the rights. Scottish football will never achieve 1% of the EPL

There was a time that I thought this would happen, but not any more. There may be a reduction of cash in relative terms, but the global nature of the premiership is incredible. I was in a pub full of Mongolians (I kid you not) after watching the derby with London Hearts last week and the place was evenly split between Chelsea and United. Every one of them passionate about their club because they'd watched them since childhood in their home country. It's a reality we just have to accept.

 

In terms of the original question, no way are we anywhere near the top 20. Every premiership club, half the championship and some of the first division in England get bigger gates than us. I'd say we're somewhere around 35-40.

 

There are less and less people watching live Premiership games.

 

Its boring and people are realising it.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

 

 

 

There are less and less people watching live Premiership games.

 

Its boring and people are realising it.

 

In Kenya and Uganda, the locals would just as easily become PSG, Wolfsburg, Flamenco or Gold Coast fans, if that was what was on their telly, and they were promoted to them.

 

 

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BonnyriggSectionG

 

 

It won't burst. It determined the success or otherwise of the TV company who owns the rights. Scottish football will never achieve 1% of the EPL

Houpefully a day will come when all fans in England realise they are being messed over and that will be when he bubble bursts.

 

Can't see it happening for a while though

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In Kenya and Uganda, the locals would just as easily become PSG, Wolfsburg, Flamenco or Gold Coast fans, if that was what was on their telly, and they were promoted to them.

 

Modern football is shit.

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hate to lower the tone of the thread 'chas', but until the powers that be try and get by 'the auld firm 4 games a season' scenario, we will not develop enough interest in other countrys, Im ever hopeful that the mighty HMfc can change all that with a fantastic euro run in the near future :smug:

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In Kenya and Uganda, the locals would just as easily become PSG, Wolfsburg, Flamenco or Gold Coast fans, if that was what was on their telly, and they were promoted to them.

 

If your granny had baws she'd be your bawsy granny.

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Our attendance figure for this season would put us 34th so we would in most likelihood have a similar budget to a mid table Championship side.

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Hearts Heritage

1 Manchester United 75337

2 Arsenal 59955

3 Newcastle United 49720

4 Manchester City 45565

5 Liverpool 44645

6 Celtic 43011

7 Sunderland 41780

8 Chelsea 41540

9 Everton 38822

10 Tottenham Hotspur 36033

11 West Ham United 34953

12 Rangers 34456

13 Aston Villa 32872

14 Leicester City 31640

15 Southampton 29260

16 Derby County 27651

17 Stoke City 27489

18 Norwich City 26093

19 Brighton and Hove Albion 25546

20 Nottingham Forest 25486

21 West Bromwich Albion 24440

22 Leeds United 24236

23 Crystal Palace 24127

24 Sheffield Wednesday 24081

25 Hull City 22827

26 Wolverhampton Wanderers 21807

27 Cardiff City 20717

28 Burnley 20608

29 Swansea City 20493

30 Sheffield United 18919

31 Ipswich Town 18165

32 Fulham 17894

33 Queens Park Rangers 17232

34 Charlton Athletic 17030

35 Reading 16713

36 Middlesbrough 16661

37 Heart of Midlothian 15922

38 Portsmouth 15537

39 Watford 14987

40 Bolton Wanderers 14807

41 Blackburn Rovers 14591

42 Birmingham City 14492

43 Bradford City 13191

44 Huddersfield Town 12898

45 Wigan Athletic 12203

46 Millwall 12100

47 Bristol City 12035

48 Aberdeen 11879

49 Blackpool 11045

50 Preston North End 10876

51 Hibernian 10333

52 Brentford 9963

53 Rotherham United 9687

54 Bournemouth 9484

55 Barnsley 9334

56 Coventry City 8810

57 Luton Town 8349

58 Dundee 8263

59 Milton Keynes Dons 7906

60 Dundee United 7314

61 Plymouth Argyle 7141

62 Swindon Town 6951

63 Doncaster Rovers 6482

64 Peterborough United 6396

65 Chesterfield 6285

66 Southend United 6010

67 Port Vale 5439

68 St Johnstone 5268

69 Gillingham 5119

70 Oxford United 5076

71 Leyton Orient 4934

72 Tranmere Rovers 4844

73 Shrewsbury Town 4834

74 Notts County 4730

75 Crewe Alexandra 4627

76 Cambridge United 4494

77 Carlisle United 4483

78 Northampton Town 4401

79 Kilmarnock 4315

80 Walsall 4160

81 Yeovil Town 4129

82 Motherwell 4047

83 St Mirren 4040

84 Falkirk 3957

85 Oldham Athletic 3878

86 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3798

87 AFC Wimbledon 3709

88 Ross County 3580

89 Colchester United 3561

90 Fleetwood Town 3548

91 Exeter City 3499

92 Rochdale 3430

93 Bury 3417

94 York City 3357

95 Partick Thistle 3345

96 Wycombe Wanderers 3265

97 Hartlepool United 3218

98 Scunthorpe United 3202

99 Raith Rovers 3160

100 Newport County 2955

101 Stevenage 2880

102 Queen of the South 2819

103 Dunfermline Athletic 2812

104 Mansfield Town 2751

105 Hamilton Academical 2516

106 Burton Albion 2468

107 Cheltenham Town 2463

108 Crawley Town 2345

109 Livingston 2215

110 Alloa Athletic 1967

111 Dagenham and Redbridge 1824

112 Morecambe 1796

113 Accrington Stanley [2] 1593

114 Greenock Morton 1539

115 Ayr United 1314

116 Dumbarton 1164

117 Cowdenbeath 878

118 Stirling Albion 858

119 Airdrieonians (Airdrie United) 785

120 Arbroath 755

121 Forfar Athletic 645

122 East Fife 613

123 Elgin City 612

124 Stenhousemuir 596

125 Albion Rovers 557

126 Peterhead 541

127 Montrose 522

128 Clyde 521

129 Brechin City 476

130 Berwick Rangers 469

131 Stranraer 465

132 Queens Park 431

133 Annan Athletic 370

134 East Stirlingshire 334

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Hearts Heritage

English clubs usually get bigger crowds.

 

So on that probably 20ish.

35-40?

 

I would be amazed if that is the case.

Around the 50 mark.

Our attendance figure for this season would put us 34th so we would in most likelihood have a similar budget to a mid table Championship side.

 

37th

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

1 Manchester United 75337

2 Arsenal 59955

3 Newcastle United 49720

4 Manchester City 45565

5 Liverpool 44645

6 Celtic 43011

7 Sunderland 41780

8 Chelsea 41540

9 Everton 38822

10 Tottenham Hotspur 36033

11 West Ham United 34953

12 Rangers 34456

13 Aston Villa 32872

14 Leicester City 31640

15 Southampton 29260

16 Derby County 27651

17 Stoke City 27489

18 Norwich City 26093

19 Brighton and Hove Albion 25546

20 Nottingham Forest 25486

21 West Bromwich Albion 24440

22 Leeds United 24236

23 Crystal Palace 24127

24 Sheffield Wednesday 24081

25 Hull City 22827

26 Wolverhampton Wanderers 21807

27 Cardiff City 20717

28 Burnley 20608

29 Swansea City 20493

30 Sheffield United 18919

31 Ipswich Town 18165

32 Fulham 17894

33 Queens Park Rangers 17232

34 Charlton Athletic 17030

35 Reading 16713

36 Middlesbrough 16661

37 Heart of Midlothian 15922

38 Portsmouth 15537

39 Watford 14987

40 Bolton Wanderers 14807

41 Blackburn Rovers 14591

42 Birmingham City 14492

43 Bradford City 13191

44 Huddersfield Town 12898

45 Wigan Athletic 12203

46 Millwall 12100

47 Bristol City 12035

48 Aberdeen 11879

49 Blackpool 11045

50 Preston North End 10876

51 Hibernian 10333

52 Brentford 9963

53 Rotherham United 9687

54 Bournemouth 9484

55 Barnsley 9334

56 Coventry City 8810

57 Luton Town 8349

58 Dundee 8263

59 Milton Keynes Dons 7906

60 Dundee United 7314

61 Plymouth Argyle 7141

62 Swindon Town 6951

63 Doncaster Rovers 6482

64 Peterborough United 6396

65 Chesterfield 6285

66 Southend United 6010

67 Port Vale 5439

68 St Johnstone 5268

69 Gillingham 5119

70 Oxford United 5076

71 Leyton Orient 4934

72 Tranmere Rovers 4844

73 Shrewsbury Town 4834

74 Notts County 4730

75 Crewe Alexandra 4627

76 Cambridge United 4494

77 Carlisle United 4483

78 Northampton Town 4401

79 Kilmarnock 4315

80 Walsall 4160

81 Yeovil Town 4129

82 Motherwell 4047

83 St Mirren 4040

84 Falkirk 3957

85 Oldham Athletic 3878

86 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3798

87 AFC Wimbledon 3709

88 Ross County 3580

89 Colchester United 3561

90 Fleetwood Town 3548

91 Exeter City 3499

92 Rochdale 3430

93 Bury 3417

94 York City 3357

95 Partick Thistle 3345

96 Wycombe Wanderers 3265

97 Hartlepool United 3218

98 Scunthorpe United 3202

99 Raith Rovers 3160

100 Newport County 2955

101 Stevenage 2880

102 Queen of the South 2819

103 Dunfermline Athletic 2812

104 Mansfield Town 2751

105 Hamilton Academical 2516

106 Burton Albion 2468

107 Cheltenham Town 2463

108 Crawley Town 2345

109 Livingston 2215

110 Alloa Athletic 1967

111 Dagenham and Redbridge 1824

112 Morecambe 1796

113 Accrington Stanley [2] 1593

114 Greenock Morton 1539

115 Ayr United 1314

116 Dumbarton 1164

117 Cowdenbeath 878

118 Stirling Albion 858

119 Airdrieonians (Airdrie United) 785

120 Arbroath 755

121 Forfar Athletic 645

122 East Fife 613

123 Elgin City 612

124 Stenhousemuir 596

125 Albion Rovers 557

126 Peterhead 541

127 Montrose 522

128 Clyde 521

129 Brechin City 476

130 Berwick Rangers 469

131 Stranraer 465

132 Queens Park 431

133 Annan Athletic 370

134 East Stirlingshire 334

 

That is excellent. Thanks man. Pretty much answers my question perfectly. :cheers:

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Hearts Heritage

That is excellent. Thanks man. Pretty much answers my question perfectly. :cheers:

 

Caveats as usual around clubs publishing tickets sold vs actual attendance

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

 

 

Caveats as usual around clubs publishing tickets sold vs actual attendance

 

Good point. I'd also expect crowds to drop if the standard of player currently enjoyed by some, was dependent on a few years of living off attendance and not TV cash.

 

Interesting stats anyway though. Ta.

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Tiberius Stinkfinger

That is excellent. Thanks man. Pretty much answers my question perfectly. :cheers:

10/15 you said aye ??? Plum!
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Hearts Heritage

I've only got English crowds for last 3 seasons

 

 

5 2012-13 Celtic 46916

6 2012-13 Rangers 45744

44 2012-13 Heart of Midlothian 13163

49 2012-13 Hibernian 10489

52 2012-13 Aberdeen 9610

58 2012-13 Dundee United 7547

67 2012-13 Dundee 5942

 

5 2013-14 Celtic 47079

7 2013-14 Rangers 42656

43 2013-14 Heart of Midlothian 14123

47 2013-14 Aberdeen 12918

50 2013-14 Hibernian 11360

59 2013-14 Dundee United 7599

77 2013-14 Dundee 4737

 

6 2014-15 Celtic 43011

12 2014-15 Rangers 34456

37 2014-15 Heart of Midlothian 15922

48 2014-15 Aberdeen 11879

51 2014-15 Hibernian 10333

58 2014-15 Dundee 8263

60 2014-15 Dundee United 7314

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Regal Kingston

If everything was equal and each teams crowds were to their full potential I would say we could be late 20's.

Basing this on the crowds we pulled for Euro nights at Murrayfield.

 

Would like to think we had more clout than Burnley....

 

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Tiberius Stinkfinger

I asked. My question is currently being answered. You are adding very little... :smug:

 

Little and often lad, little and often.... :2thumbsup:

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There was a time that I thought this would happen, but not any more. There may be a reduction of cash in relative terms, but the global nature of the premiership is incredible. I was in a pub full of Mongolians (I kid you not) after watching the derby with London Hearts last week and the place was evenly split between Chelsea and United. Every one of them passionate about their club because they'd watched them since childhood in their home country. It's a reality we just have to accept.

 

In terms of the original question, no way are we anywhere near the top 20. Every premiership club, half the championship and some of the first division in England get bigger gates than us. I'd say we're somewhere around 35-40.

 

In 1990 we had the 18th highest average attendance in the UK

Then came the premiership

To suggest we are not bigger than clubs like Wigan Fulham Burnley Leicester and Crystal Palace is ridiculous take away the TV riches and a lot of Premiership Clubs are Mickey Mouse compared to Hearts

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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It's hard to say given the crowds that a lot of what would be diddy clubs pull in due to the money floating about down there...

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

 

 

No mate. I call that "Charlie" !!

 

:D

 

Yep, makes sense. Always suspected your bits were likely to be funny. Hard to imagine they'd be clever and handsome though.

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Always thought we are on a pat with Blackburn Rovers in terms of size.

 

At least they were the Premier League team I compared us to,

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Guess The Crowd

Hibs 51, aye?

 

Haha, great spot.

 

Back in the day, ( late 80s early 90s) Wallace Mercer used to claim, rightly or (more likely) wrongly, that we were in the top 10 in the UK.

 

 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

 

Always thought we are on a pat with Blackburn Rovers in terms of size.

 

At least they were the Premier League team I compared us to,

If we were in the EPL we would double in size. I don't think that is unrealistic. Since we are all part of the UK we should apply

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Guest oldcastlerock2012

You have to factor in that in the scenario of English clubs getting less money most of their crowds would dip to nearer ours.

 

On the other hand if we got access to more sky money we'd increase.

 

I've always seen us as a Southampton, Birmingham, Notts Forest size of club all things being equal.

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Guest oldcastlerock2012

By the way those figure prove how much of an anomoly the Old Firm is in Scotland and why they have to rely on "other" things rather than the quality of their football (largely mediocre) to get people to go along every week.

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Most of the teams above us will benefit from far bigger numbers of away fans that we get.

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zoltan socrates

I mind seeing a Forbes report about six or seven years ago, based on fan base we came in about 18th, cannae find the link though??

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It all depends on how competitive it is. All things considered Hearts are top ten

 

In Britain as a whole? You're kidding yourself on.

 

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Tayside Jambo
1 Manchester United 75337

2 Arsenal 59955

3 Newcastle United 49720

4 Manchester City 45565

5 Liverpool 44645

6 Celtic 43011

7 Sunderland 41780

8 Chelsea 41540

9 Everton 38822

10 Tottenham Hotspur 36033

11 West Ham United 34953

12 Rangers 34456

13 Aston Villa 32872

14 Leicester City 31640

15 Southampton 29260

16 Derby County 27651

17 Stoke City 27489

18 Norwich City 26093

19 Brighton and Hove Albion 25546

20 Nottingham Forest 25486

21 West Bromwich Albion 24440

22 Leeds United 24236

23 Crystal Palace 24127

24 Sheffield Wednesday 24081

25 Hull City 22827

26 Wolverhampton Wanderers 21807

27 Cardiff City 20717

28 Burnley 20608

29 Swansea City 20493

30 Sheffield United 18919

31 Ipswich Town 18165

32 Fulham 17894

33 Queens Park Rangers 17232

34 Charlton Athletic 17030

35 Reading 16713

36 Middlesbrough 16661

37 Heart of Midlothian 15922

38 Portsmouth 15537

39 Watford 14987

40 Bolton Wanderers 14807

41 Blackburn Rovers 14591

42 Birmingham City 14492

43 Bradford City 13191

44 Huddersfield Town 12898

45 Wigan Athletic 12203

46 Millwall 12100

47 Bristol City 12035

48 Aberdeen 11879

49 Blackpool 11045

50 Preston North End 10876

51 Hibernian 10333

52 Brentford 9963

53 Rotherham United 9687

54 Bournemouth 9484

55 Barnsley 9334

56 Coventry City 8810

57 Luton Town 8349

58 Dundee 8263

59 Milton Keynes Dons 7906

60 Dundee United 7314

61 Plymouth Argyle 7141

62 Swindon Town 6951

63 Doncaster Rovers 6482

64 Peterborough United 6396

65 Chesterfield 6285

66 Southend United 6010

67 Port Vale 5439

68 St Johnstone 5268

69 Gillingham 5119

70 Oxford United 5076

71 Leyton Orient 4934

72 Tranmere Rovers 4844

73 Shrewsbury Town 4834

74 Notts County 4730

75 Crewe Alexandra 4627

76 Cambridge United 4494

77 Carlisle United 4483

78 Northampton Town 4401

79 Kilmarnock 4315

80 Walsall 4160

81 Yeovil Town 4129

82 Motherwell 4047

83 St Mirren 4040

84 Falkirk 3957

85 Oldham Athletic 3878

86 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3798

87 AFC Wimbledon 3709

88 Ross County 3580

89 Colchester United 3561

90 Fleetwood Town 3548

91 Exeter City 3499

92 Rochdale 3430

93 Bury 3417

94 York City 3357

95 Partick Thistle 3345

96 Wycombe Wanderers 3265

97 Hartlepool United 3218

98 Scunthorpe United 3202

99 Raith Rovers 3160

100 Newport County 2955

101 Stevenage 2880

102 Queen of the South 2819

103 Dunfermline Athletic 2812

104 Mansfield Town 2751

105 Hamilton Academical 2516

106 Burton Albion 2468

107 Cheltenham Town 2463

108 Crawley Town 2345

109 Livingston 2215

110 Alloa Athletic 1967

111 Dagenham and Redbridge 1824

112 Morecambe 1796

113 Accrington Stanley [2] 1593

114 Greenock Morton 1539

115 Ayr United 1314

116 Dumbarton 1164

117 Cowdenbeath 878

118 Stirling Albion 858

119 Airdrieonians (Airdrie United) 785

120 Arbroath 755

121 Forfar Athletic 645

122 East Fife 613

123 Elgin City 612

124 Stenhousemuir 596

125 Albion Rovers 557

126 Peterhead 541

127 Montrose 522

128 Clyde 521

129 Brechin City 476

130 Berwick Rangers 469

131 Stranraer 465

132 Queens Park 431

133 Annan Athletic 370

134 East Stirlingshire 334

 

The bottom 21 are Scottish, 18 of them being less than 1000. Shows how having 42 teams in a country the size of Scotland where only 2 are really cared about in terms of TV and media interest isn't a viable way forwards.

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A big if but if there was a British league where would Hearts be ?. Taking in to account the money would be shared appropriately by the tv company's and the fact we would be playing better opposition. I was told by someone a good few years ago now, that Scotland was one of the best supported country's for football in the world for the amount of people in our country.

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kingantti1874

A big if but if there was a British league where would Hearts be ?. Taking in to account the money would be shared appropriately by the tv company's and the fact we would be playing better opposition. I was told by someone a good few years ago now, that Scotland was one of the best supported country's for football in the world for the amount of people in our country.

 

By head of population the attendance at Scottish football is phenomenal.. If we were competing on an even footing with the EPL our gates would double IMO..

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Mac_fae_Gillie

may be 37th on turnstile now but if TV money in England did not bring in big names their turnstile figures would drop so we would go up about 6-8 places. to around 30th.

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If were playing in 'England', then we'd have much bigger crowds thanks to our fanbase and the money, excitement involved.

 

 

Similarly, English crowds were much lower than they were in the ten year period before the Premiership.

 

 

 

 

 

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If were playing in 'England', then we'd have much bigger crowds thanks to our fanbase and the money, excitement involved.

 

 

Similarly, English crowds were much lower than they were in the ten year period before the Premiership.

 

Why have you put England in inverted commas?

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