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The Effect our New Methods will have on the Academy?


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I can't wait to see them.

 

 

If we impliment the changes we have seen from the first team, all the way down. Playing style, extra training, hopefully dietary and nutrional programmes, then it surely bodes well for the future. Im allowing my mind to wander and dream a little bit but what an exciting time for our club this could be.

 

Thoughts?

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I think the Academy has been doing an excellent job up until now, the proverbial conveyor belt of talent. Anything that improves it is tremendous news.

 

Didn't here much about last weeks presentation on the academy at the beam back, any info would be good. Also hearing that Levien plans to set up five regional development centres around the country, exciting news.

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I can't wait to see them.

 

 

If we impliment the changes we have seen from the first team, all the way down. Playing style, extra training, hopefully dietary and nutrional programmes, then it surely bodes well for the future. Im allowing my mind to wander and dream a little bit but what an exciting time for our club this could be.

 

Thoughts?

 

Has it not been said that the youth set up downwards at Tynecastle was the model and that the senior side of the club is now working along the same lines and philosophy.

What I think we have now is a set up that if followed and developed over the next few years will reap huge dividends for Heart of Midlothian Football Club.

 

HHGH

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tartofmidlothian

Can't quite remember what the Prince said in his interview yesterday, but IIRC it was along the lines of training being very tough but that he relished it.

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Although it still jars a bit I do still like the honesty from the players about how they are looking at Hearts as a stepping stone to bigger things. Robbie talked at some length again during his half time interview last night.

 

The 'old Hearts fan' in me still winces a bit but the 'new and improved Hearts fan' in me appreciates the honesty and sees the business benefit. As RN said last night, every team in the UK outside the top 6 in the EPL is a selling team. So lets not pretend otherwise and instead use it as a selling point to players i.e. give us two years and we will make you a better player and give you the stage to get yourself a move to a bigger club. That's got to be a huge incentive for the academy players also.

 

It will still hurt when those players move on but at least we know that is the ultimate aim and so can't whinge too much when it does happen. And although I have nothing to back this up, i just get the feeling that we will be selling them on to non competing clubs in the future rather than getting forced into selling to the Ugly Sisters for very little. Those days are hopefully gone now so if players do get a move down south then fair play to them and good luck. just not for a couple of years tho for the current batch!

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Hagar the Horrible

I know Pat Nevin And Micky Stewart were worried about it might burn us out, but I don't, the philosophy that the more you bleed in training the less you bleed in battle. towards the end of the season our fitness will prove valuable and we will recover quicker from injuries. It about time we actually acted like athletes and trained like them, and better still how to act beyond the pitch and training sessions, they all should be too tired to play Fifa15.

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Once the players have reached physical peak condition, i would imagine that the fitness side of training will reduce (Just keep ticking over) and more ball work, positioning and tactical work will happen. This will help us come the end of the season were fatigue and injuries should decrease.

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And of course there is more to training than running about daft. There is skill-training, gym, conditioning, diet, tactics, rest, physio etc etc.

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Ask me in 3/5 years time............by then we will see the impacts of the new regime.

 

Those coming in now as 16 year olds will be the first to feel the impact...........those 15 and under will see if the changes to backroom staff and teaching will bring about improvement.

One thing though is that money is at last available for investment in the youngsters after the last 2 seasons of cutting costs and from speaking to one or two parents they can see this already.

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It is why continuity of coaching and training so important.

 

It is important that the head coach after Robbie has the same ideals and similar methods.

 

It is important for the youth players that replace those sold can play the same sort of game.

 

In this respect we shouldnt suffer anything like the same disruption that will normally happen with a new head ccoach (who always wants "his own" type of players in). An internally produced new Head Coach will already have "his own" type of players in as everyone at the club is working in the same direction.

 

The first key test of all of this will be when Robbie leaves. Which he will as he appears to be going to the top. But I do think we'll get 3 years out of him first.

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Interesting that Jack Ross was sitting with Craig Levein rather being in the technical area as Darren Murray and a thoroughly bored looking Robbie Neilson used to.

 

More mentoring?

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Hope we put some time into throw ins, noticed yesterday the amount of times we lost possession at throws, the one area where we have got worse from last year. A few simple drills should sort that out.

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Interesting that Jack Ross was sitting with Craig Levein rather being in the technical area as Darren Murray and a thoroughly bored looking Robbie Neilson used to.

 

More mentoring?

 

I think he's there beside Craig at every match, certainly homes ones anyway.

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The Academy will only meet the expectations of the management and fans if we can recruit the best prospects and develop them into top players.

 

We have been very fortunate to have had a group of decent players coming through over a three year period in Walker, Holt, McHattie, McKay, Paterson, Hamilton, Carrick, King, Nicholson, Oliver, Beith and McGhee who are still at the club. I think we will find it very difficult to produce and retain the same numbers over the next three years.

 

Obviously there are still a few individual prospects at each age group, but my feeling is that we will have two or three fallow years before we see another group maturing at the same time.

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And of course there is more to training than running about daft. There is skill-training, gym, conditioning, diet, tactics, rest, physio etc etc.

 

This is the big thing for me

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The Academy will only meet the expectations of the management and fans if we can recruit the best prospects and develop them into top players.

 

We have been very fortunate to have had a group of decent players coming through over a three year period in Walker, Holt, McHattie, McKay, Paterson, Hamilton, Carrick, King, Nicholson, Oliver, Beith and McGhee who are still at the club. I think we will find it very difficult to produce and retain the same numbers over the next three years.

 

Obviously there are still a few individual prospects at each age group, but my feeling is that we will have two or three fallow years before we see another group maturing at the same time.

 

Whilst I agree with your assessment, I'm not sure it points to a fallow. We used the above to build a team. We only need to bleed a couple per season, not the mass numbers we have already. The reason for that is we still have the above. Sure, they will start to go over time, but we won't wake up in July to find we've lost six of our best players.

 

The likes of Beith, Buchanan, Roy, Gordon will get more fame time next year. We need to continue to recruit the best prospects we can, as you rightly say, but we don't need ten graduates a year.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Academies work best when your first team philosophy runs right down to the youngest age groups.

 

I love our style under Neilson. To an extent I think this division lets us play like that but in fairness, our football was exactly the same at Ibrox. We just didn't have the same confidence with it being the first day of the season.

 

Basically, the club have played a fecking blinder this summer. Invested in the right people at all levels and it's paid off so far.

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The_razors_edge

And of course there is more to training than running about daft. There is skill-training, gym, conditioning, diet, tactics, rest, physio etc etc.

 

Michael Stewart made the same point on Sportscene last night. Although the players do 3 'sessions' they aren't all 'physical' sessions. The morning session may be tactical/performance analysis in relation to the previous or upcoming opponent. This may then be followed by a session of technical training which would be classed as 'physical' work. This may then be followed by some sports science or strength & Conditioning work. Presumably the Sports Scientist will have have designed individual training programmes for each player taking in to account the requirements of each position. You can also include recovery sessions, shaping (anyone who has done a bit of shaping coaching will know there is A LOT of standing about as the coach goes through various scenarios). So from that point of view some of these 'sessions' won;t be too physically taxing.

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It's happening already. My son, who is 9, got his first tactical session last week. This came down from levein we were told and is how, even at that age, they are being coached on how hearts want to play the game. The good thing was that the parents were asked to sit in as well so that we understood what was happening. It's a great set up at riccarton

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Hoping that as well as all the other improvements in coaching/fitness/nutrition etc. we see an improvement in discipline.

 

Why scupper your own chances by showing dissent to the refs all the time? Picking up bookings or sendings off and incurring suspensions. Should be zero tolerance for these sorts of things.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Hoping that as well as all the other improvements in coaching/fitness/nutrition etc. we see an improvement in discipline.

 

Why scupper your own chances by showing dissent to the refs all the time? Picking up bookings or sendings off and incurring suspensions. Should be zero tolerance for these sorts of things.

 

Showing dissent hasn't been the problem this season. Stupid red cards for Sow and Bauben. People said yesterday that Gomis was unlucky with his booking but he wasn't - he knew what he was doing and he stopped a Livi attack. No need at 3-0 up.

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Showing dissent hasn't been the problem this season. Stupid red cards for Sow and Bauben. People said yesterday that Gomis was unlucky with his booking but he wasn't - he knew what he was doing and he stopped a Livi attack. No need at 3-0 up.

 

That's my point. I've noticed that without the likes of Hamill in the side we have been showing nowhere near the same amount of dissent. That should be the policy for the whole club.

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That's my point. I've noticed that without the likes of Hamill in the side we have been showing nowhere near the same amount of dissent. That should be the policy for the whole club.

 

I remember Nottm Forest finishing a game with 10 men because Cloughie had used his subs and a player got booked for dissent. He just subbed him off and sent him to the dressing room with a clip round the ear. I can't remember another player for Cloughie ever getting booked for dissent after that.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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tartofmidlothian

 

 

I remember Nottm Forest finishing a game with 10 men because Cloughie had used his subs and a player got booked for dissent. He just subbed him off and sent him to the dressing room with a clip round the ear. I can't remember another player for Cloughie ever getting booked for dissent after that.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

Can you take a player off if they're uninjured and not replace them? That I didn't know.

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Can you take a player off if they're uninjured and not replace them? That I didn't know.

He did.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

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Can you take a player off if they're uninjured and not replace them? That I didn't know.

As long as you have 7 players on the pitch I think you could do that.

 

You would probably get a disrepute charge nowadays mind.

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As long as you have 7 players on the pitch I think you could do that.

 

That's a common misunderstanding of the laws of the game.

 

A team cannot START a game with fewer than seven players. There is nothing in the laws that definitively prevents a team finishing a game with fewer than seven, although the guidance is that the game should not proceed with fewer than seven. I don't know how the SFA/SPFL apply this rule.

 

Law 3 states :

Number of Players

A match is played by two teams, each consisting of not more than eleven players, one of whom is the goalkeeper. A match may not start if either team consists of fewer than seven players.

 

Minimum number of players

If the rules of a competition state that all of the players and substitutes must be named before kick-off and a team begins a match with fewer than 11 players,

only the players named in the starting line-up may complete the 11 upon their arrival.

 

Although a match may not START if either team consists of fewer than seven players, the minimum number of players in a team required for a match to

CONTINUE is left to the discretion of member associations. However, it is the opinion of the International F.A. Board that a match should not continue if

there are fewer than seven players in either team.

 

If a team has fewer than seven players because one or more players has deliberately left the field of play, the referee is not obliged to stop the match

and the advantage may be played. In such cases, the referee must not allow the match to resume after the ball has gone out of play if a team does not

have the minimum number of seven players.

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I'm not sure if Hearts do this but I like the idea of full scale First XI v 'shadow' XI drill-matches, where the latter is purely there to mark and block the First XI.

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It's happening already. My son, who is 9, got his first tactical session last week. This came down from levein we were told and is how, even at that age, they are being coached on how hearts want to play the game. The good thing was that the parents were asked to sit in as well so that we understood what was happening. It's a great set up at riccarton

 

This post makes me happy, hope those tactical sessions pay off and your son goes on to become a Hearts superstar :thumbsup:

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Jambof3tornado

 

 

This post makes me happy, hope those tactical sessions pay off and your son goes on to become a Hearts superstar :thumbsup:

Even if he doesnt make it at Hearts he will benefit greatly from a much better understanding of the game!

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Whilst I agree with your assessment, I'm not sure it points to a fallow. We used the above to build a team. We only need to bleed a couple per season, not the mass numbers we have already. The reason for that is we still have the above. Sure, they will start to go over time, but we won't wake up in July to find we've lost six of our best players.

 

The likes of Beith, Buchanan, Roy, Gordon will get more fame time next year. We need to continue to recruit the best prospects we can, as you rightly say, but we don't need ten graduates a year.

 

good to get a note of caution on how many players an academy can produce

 

but its also about signing players at the right time like McHattie and Paterson previously and now Roy for example who impressed in his 5 minutes against Raith Rovers

 

improving our prospects of attracting players at all ages is a big part of developing things

 

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Even if he doesnt make it at Hearts he will benefit greatly from a much better understanding of the game!

 

time will tell I guess. Compared to what I got coaching wise when I was that age it is lights years ahead. They are talking about no play zones and different zones within the play zones. Amazing stuff.

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I think the Academy has been doing an excellent job up until now, the proverbial conveyor belt of talent. Anything that improves it is tremendous news.

 

Didn't here much about last weeks presentation on the academy at the beam back, any info would be good. Also hearing that Levien plans to set up five regional development centres around the country, exciting news.

 

I really hope this is true. If so, that is absolute superb news. We will never compete with the OF in terms of buying talent but where we can really challenge them is by recruiting players at a young age and then developing them right up to the first team. Hopefully parents/youngsters will see that we have a great set-up and that their children will eventually have a real chance of getting regular first team football (something which isn't the case for OF youth players). Some of the posts on this thread are really encouraing and shows just how much Levein is doing behind the scenes and it also shows that he is doing it quietly and in the right way. I think some fans were concerned that Levein would be a bit of a control freak and wouldn't allow RN/others to do their job but I think those fears have now been proven to be unfounded.

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Francis Albert

I think the Academy will do well to match in the future the flow of talent it has produced in the last few years (despite being repeatedly told on here last season that few if any of the youngsters would make it!). So I am not sure that

fundamentally there is that much wrong with it - indeed the recent problem has been first team managers and coaches who seemed determined not to

play the same style as the youngsters were brought up to play. That is the biggest and most important change introduced by the new regime.

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Youngsters need to play. Maybe in another era some would never have made first team and disappeared.

 

Robbie and Craig have both said this. Not sure how it will happen though.

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The regional centres thing is kinda already happening as well. As well as training at riccarton I take my laddie through to motherwell on a Sunday night for hearts training. Lots of weegie based "weans" at that session

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The regional centres thing is kinda already happening as well. As well as training at riccarton I take my laddie through to motherwell on a Sunday night for hearts training. Lots of weegie based "weans" at that session

 

Hearts have had regional centres for the younger age groups (typically from age 8) for a few years now.

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jamboinglasgow

The Academy will only meet the expectations of the management and fans if we can recruit the best prospects and develop them into top players.

 

We have been very fortunate to have had a group of decent players coming through over a three year period in Walker, Holt, McHattie, McKay, Paterson, Hamilton, Carrick, King, Nicholson, Oliver, Beith and McGhee who are still at the club. I think we will find it very difficult to produce and retain the same numbers over the next three years.

 

Obviously there are still a few individual prospects at each age group, but my feeling is that we will have two or three fallow years before we see another group maturing at the same time.

 

In terms of this, do you think this is because the turmoil in the club in last few years putting parents off Hearts for their child's club? Is it the lack of real investment in the academy (except from HYDC) over the last few years meaning we have been unable to recruit as effectively as we have in past years? Or is it simply that you cant have so many players coming through at once every year? If it is the first two, in whats in trying to rectify this now with the new direction and investment it will take time for recruitment to be back at what it should be.

 

There have been some interesting snippets come out about the new direction for the academy. From Levein saying about how they are looking for the young players to play as much football as possible so helping have kickabouts with other other. Using the satellite centres to give players closer coaching them bringing them once a week to Riccarton. Roger Arnott talking about the main focus from a young age of technique and continuning that to older ages (remember one poster mentioning that the older age groups did no training sessions a week on solely technique, only tactical. Now they have at least one training session about technique. That he wants all age groups to play from the back and though it may lose goals in young age groups it will help develop them and get them better to cope with the pace of the game when their 10 years older. That their scouting is to focus on players within an hour of Edinburgh. Also that there is constant assessment, homework for the youngsters to take away. And thats just scratching the surface of what has been said and what is happening.

 

As I said before I love to sit down (either on my own or at an organised evening for fans) and hear Levein's, Robbies and Roger Arnott's vision for the academy. Think they are passionate enough about it to talk hours about it. Was also good to see Craig Levein post a tweet yesterday after posting one about the senior game, praising the under 13s and under 14s saying the played very well and saying there is a lot of good work going on behind the scenes.

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It's happening already. My son, who is 9, got his first tactical session last week. This came down from levein we were told and is how, even at that age, they are being coached on how hearts want to play the game. The good thing was that the parents were asked to sit in as well so that we understood what was happening. It's a great set up at riccarton

 

That's excellent news.

 

The Academy will only meet the expectations of the management and fans if we can recruit the best prospects and develop them into top players.

 

We have been very fortunate to have had a group of decent players coming through over a three year period in Walker, Holt, McHattie, McKay, Paterson, Hamilton, Carrick, King, Nicholson, Oliver, Beith and McGhee who are still at the club. I think we will find it very difficult to produce and retain the same numbers over the next three years.

 

Obviously there are still a few individual prospects at each age group, but my feeling is that we will have two or three fallow years before we see another group maturing at the same time.

 

But those in that list are at very different stages of development. It's possible, although I'd say not likely, that Nicholson, Holt, Walker or McHattie might ship out as soon as the January window. I think we'll likely lose at least one of that four by next summer (Holt looking less and less likely at the moment). On the other hand, Oliver, Beith, and McGhee are all probably 3 years at least away from being transfer targets.

 

And, as our transfer window has shown, Riccarton as a training grounds is enough to draw highly talented but unfinished prospects like Sow, El Hass, and Ozturk from around the globe. Average the addition of 1-3 strong first team academy products every year and 1-3 good international development signings and we're in high cotton.

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic

Interesting that Jack Ross was sitting with Craig Levein rather being in the technical area as Darren Murray and a thoroughly bored looking Robbie Neilson used to.

 

More mentoring?

 

I'm pretty confident Jack Ross will end up a lot higher than u20s coach at Hearts. He's next in line for head coach certainly, maybe even DoF.

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Franco Fascione

I know there is a long way to go still in implementing the changes our management team will want to make, however, I cannot believe the progress we have made already, since Craig and Robbie took over. It's quite incredible, considering where we've been the last couple of years.

 

If Mrs Budge can match that progress on the commercial side of the club, and I'm sure she will, I think we are in for some interesting times at Tynecastle over the coming years.

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In terms of this, do you think this is because the turmoil in the club in last few years putting parents off Hearts for their child's club? Is it the lack of real investment in the academy (except from HYDC) over the last few years meaning we have been unable to recruit as effectively as we have in past years? Or is it simply that you cant have so many players coming through at once every year? If it is the first two, in whats in trying to rectify this now with the new direction and investment it will take time for recruitment to be back at what it should be.

 

There have been some interesting snippets come out about the new direction for the academy. From Levein saying about how they are looking for the young players to play as much football as possible so helping have kickabouts with other other. Using the satellite centres to give players closer coaching them bringing them once a week to Riccarton. Roger Arnott talking about the main focus from a young age of technique and continuning that to older ages (remember one poster mentioning that the older age groups did no training sessions a week on solely technique, only tactical. Now they have at least one training session about technique. That he wants all age groups to play from the back and though it may lose goals in young age groups it will help develop them and get them better to cope with the pace of the game when their 10 years older. That their scouting is to focus on players within an hour of Edinburgh. Also that there is constant assessment, homework for the youngsters to take away. And thats just scratching the surface of what has been said and what is happening.

 

As I said before I love to sit down (either on my own or at an organised evening for fans) and hear Levein's, Robbies and Roger Arnott's vision for the academy. Think they are passionate enough about it to talk hours about it. Was also good to see Craig Levein post a tweet yesterday after posting one about the senior game, praising the under 13s and under 14s saying the played very well and saying there is a lot of good work going on behind the scenes.

 

The club was certainly unable to invest in new players in recent years as they were unable to pay the required level of compensation payments. I know that HYDC were looking to direct more of their funds to player recruitment this season, hence only one side went to the Foyle Cup. I'd hope that the purse strings at the club have been loosened somewhat so that we will see more new players coming in. ideally, you would hope that at each Academy age group you may be able to identify 5 or 6 with a realistic chance of "making it" as a professional, with one or two actually doing so. I just don't think we have that depth for the next two or three seasons. There's been a large turnover of players at U16, U15 and U14 in the last couple of seasons which probably reflects the recognition that we weren't where we wanted to be.

 

I also watched the U14 (1st half) and U13 (2nd half) games against Aberdeen on Sunday. Levein and Arnott did likewise with Neilson joining them watching the U13s. The U14s were level at 1-1 at half time, but the U13s went on to win 7-2 playing some great stuff.

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I also watched the U14 (1st half) and U13 (2nd half) games against Aberdeen on Sunday. Levein and Arnott did likewise with Neilson joining them watching the U13s. The U14s were level at 1-1 at half time, but the U13s went on to win 7-2 playing some great stuff.

 

The U14s went onto win 5-1. Watched the latter partof the game before my laddie was playing.

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Seymour M Hersh

Even if he doesnt make it at Hearts he will benefit greatly from a much better understanding of the game!

 

Think how good his posts will be on here. At last one of us with some tactical knowhow! :2thumbsup:

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Hope we put some time into throw ins, noticed yesterday the amount of times we lost possession at throws, the one area where we have got worse from last year. A few simple drills should sort that out.

 

I've noticed this all season. We dont seem to have a plan from throw ins... Maybe it is suppose to seem like that :lol:

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Hope we put some time into throw ins, noticed yesterday the amount of times we lost possession at throws, the one area where we have got worse from last year. A few simple drills should sort that out.

 

If only there was someone on the coaching team that used to be a long throw specialist

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jamboinglasgow

The club was certainly unable to invest in new players in recent years as they were unable to pay the required level of compensation payments. I know that HYDC were looking to direct more of their funds to player recruitment this season, hence only one side went to the Foyle Cup. I'd hope that the purse strings at the club have been loosened somewhat so that we will see more new players coming in. ideally, you would hope that at each Academy age group you may be able to identify 5 or 6 with a realistic chance of "making it" as a professional, with one or two actually doing so. I just don't think we have that depth for the next two or three seasons. There's been a large turnover of players at U16, U15 and U14 in the last couple of seasons which probably reflects the recognition that we weren't where we wanted to be.

 

I also watched the U14 (1st half) and U13 (2nd half) games against Aberdeen on Sunday. Levein and Arnott did likewise with Neilson joining them watching the U13s. The U14s were level at 1-1 at half time, but the U13s went on to win 7-2 playing some great stuff.

 

Hopefully that has been sorted out (or being sorted out.) Guess a way of looking at it is Dundee United, when the changes were made under Levein they had talent that had come through Goodwillie, Armstrong and Russell but its taken a few years before they have the number of talented players they have now. In the between they have they odd one or two (Ryan Dow for example.) Changes take time to have a realistic effect on the system and the players coming through, from scouting and recruitment to coaching and development.

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If only there was someone on the coaching team that used to be a long throw specialist

 

It says something that players who were more like hammer throwers than footballers attempt to get their teams playing sexy football. What it actually says, I'm not sure.

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