Hearts Income and Expenditure during admin

[spacerjoe]

 

 

 

I'd expect that the bulk of the catering costs are Hospitality costs.

 

I'd expect the bulk of the catering costs are feeding the players and staff. Doubt the players take a packed lunch in to training.

[Footballfirst]

That's not entirely correct, Hearts did contribute capital in exchange for a reduced rent. It may have been renegotiated on admin, however.

 

I'm aware the the Academy was reported to have cost ?6.5M with HWU contributing over ?3M, Hearts ?2.3M and Sportscotland ?1M.

 

I'd have to check Hearts accounts to see if we actually handed over ?2.3M or agreed to pay that sum as part of the Lease payment.

[Footballfirst]

I'm aware the the Academy was reported to have cost ?6.5M with HWU contributing over ?3M, Hearts ?2.3M and Sportscotland ?1M.

 

I'd have to check Hearts accounts to see if we actually handed over ?2.3M or agreed to pay that sum as part of the Lease payment.

 

From the 2004 accounts

The company's share of the construction costs of the Youth Academy at Heriot Watt University is included in assets in the course of construction. Included within assets in course of construction are finance costs of ?178,820 (2003 - ?65,000) of which ?113,820 (2003 - ?65,000) have been capitalised in the year. This is based on a specific bank facility rate of 1.5% over base rate and a capitalisation rate of 5.5% based on general borrowings which have been used to finance the construction. Construction of the Youth Academy was completed after the year end and the asset transferred to leasehold property.

 

In the 2005 accounts it goes on to say:

Following completion of the Youth Academy development at Heriot Watt University in August 2004, the company's share of construction costs was transferred from assets in the course of construction to leasehold property. The company's part funding of the development entitles it to use the facility for a 25 year period.

 

So it does look like we contributed toward the construction costs, but borrowed it as new money instead of using the SMG money for what it was originally intended. You also have to remember that the opening of the Academy coincided with Chris Robinson's attempt to sell Tynecastle to Cala Homes and move to Murrayfield, such was the state of our finances at the time.

[Tayside Jambo]

 

 

 

Just listen to the "squeaky voice" emanating from Fester Rd and our Scott is way way better and funnier.

 

Don't think I've ever heard his voice. Far too quick and we usually are loud at the interval.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

From the 2004 accounts

The company's share of the construction costs of the Youth Academy at Heriot Watt University is included in assets in the course of construction. Included within assets in course of construction are finance costs of ?178,820 (2003 - ?65,000) of which ?113,820 (2003 - ?65,000) have been capitalised in the year. This is based on a specific bank facility rate of 1.5% over base rate and a capitalisation rate of 5.5% based on general borrowings which have been used to finance the construction. Construction of the Youth Academy was completed after the year end and the asset transferred to leasehold property.

 

In the 2005 accounts it goes on to say:

Following completion of the Youth Academy development at Heriot Watt University in August 2004, the company's share of construction costs was transferred from assets in the course of construction to leasehold property. The company's part funding of the development entitles it to use the facility for a 25 year period.

 

So it does look like we contributed toward the construction costs, but borrowed it as new money instead of using the SMG money for what it was originally intended. You also have to remember that the opening of the Academy coincided with Chris Robinson's attempt to sell Tynecastle to Cala Homes and move to Murrayfield, such was the state of our finances at the time.

Indeed, which was why it would never had been built had Robinson and co not agreed to the sale of Tynie with the Bank of David Murray.

[jamboron]

I buy a programme for every match I go to.

 

It'll be something to look back on in the future, when I'm telling my grandchildren about The Hearts

 

Might even be worth something if they're kept in good nick,

Especially 2 Hampden games against Hibs , from 02/04/06 & 19/05/12 . :2thumbsup:

[gashauskis9]

 

 

 

Brilliant value if you ask me .

 

Some of the song selections show too that he's got his finger on the pulse, although I'd question the "it's Magic" song being played after we win as no-one ever knows what to sing for the second line.

 

Ibrox will be a Tesco (perhaps)?

[Gregory House M.D.]

I'm still utterly puzzled at how we managed to spend ?2,350,000 on wages with a squad of academy graduates and 5 or so senior players. Utterly baffling amount of money even when it includes the salaries of staff, management, youths and coaches.

 

 

[RealMaroonCF]

I'm still utterly puzzled at how we managed to spend ?2,350,000 on wages with a squad of academy graduates and 5 or so senior players. Utterly baffling amount of money even when it includes the salaries of staff, management, youths and coaches.

 

This is where people's understanding of just how much it costs to run a football club falls over. Its oot just all about the playing staff wages.

 

If we call our players wages 800k then we have 1.5m more going out the door. Even if we stick with the football side of things we' have coaches, at all let's, physios, doctor, kit staff etc all to pay.

 

We then have shop staff, ticketing staff, marketing, commercial etc. Numerous catering, bar, cleaning staff etc

 

Those figures likely include pay offs for those unfortunate enough to lose their jobs during our admin too.

 

It's worth looking at other clubs costs outside the playing staff. Aberdeen do pretty easy to follow accounts.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Why don't Hearts look to doing digital match day programmes ?

 

Available for download from the website (and maybe from here ?) for a small fee.

 

No more publishing costs.

[Diego10]

The 2.3m salary cost presumably includes staff N.I contributions. There will also have been money owed to guys like Driver from the admin period until they were formally released. That's not back wages but money due after admin started.

 

Administrative staff, management, coaching, medical, matchday staff etc. I'd imagine around ?1m would cover around what, 50+ people? It's a big undertaking running an SPL club.

 

Running a large football club isn't going to be cheap.

[Pans Jambo]

Scott Wilson is well underpaid at roughly ?20 an hour (?100 a game for 5 hours work). Dont forget he does the mid-week games and the hospitality areas too. Great ambassador for our club.

JKB should take over paying his wages and give him ?200 a game IMO. He deserves it.

Mods, can you get a survey up to see what the KB'ers think about that.

[Pans Jambo]

Why don't Hearts look to doing digital match day programmes ?

 

Available for download from the website (and maybe from here ?) for a small fee.

 

No more publishing costs.

Exactly. Would benefit fans who cant make it to games and help out foreign support who fancy a match day programme. A ?1-?2 download. Easy peasy.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Scott Wilson is well underpaid at roughly ?20 an hour (?100 a game for 5 hours work). Dont forget he does the mid-week games and the hospitality areas too. Great ambassador for our club.

JKB should take over paying his wages and give him ?200 a game IMO. He deserves it.

Mods, can you get a survey up to see what the KB'ers think about that.

Great shout! Rather than sponsor kits we should sponsor Scott. After all, he was the creator of this place.

[The People's Chimp]

The hire of training facilities seems really high at ?278k, as does steward match costs, rent and rates. Thought riccarton was a joint project between hearts and Heriot watt? Was it maybe paid for by HW and this sum is paying our half back?

 

How is that really high? ?278k for a top class sports facility, 24/7, all year round.

 

Folk have some bizarre ideas.

[Tony Soprano]

So because our income was less than our expenses during admin, does that mean we cheated our way to 4 derby wins last season?

[Pans Jambo]

So because our income was less than our expenses during admin, does that mean we cheated our way to 4 derby wins last season?

Probably but who these days gets by to the end of the month without a wee overdraft???

[Locky]

 

 

?100 for working 2-5 on a Saturday isn't really a lot.........................

 

Not a lot in the grand scheme of things but a very cushty wee number. Getting paid to watch your team play, mingle with the players and a list of others while chucking on a few records and getting to read the team line ups out is a dream.

 

Hell, I'd pay ?100 to get a shot.

[Questy]

That was a typo on my part. It should have been 11/06/14

 

So if All costs remained the same this season and we can now add in around 7000 more Season Ticket sales (Average say ?280) , your talking close on another 2 Million Pounds

[Questy]

This is where people's understanding of just how much it costs to run a football club falls over. Its oot just all about the playing staff wages.

 

If we call our players wages 800k then we have 1.5m more going out the door. Even if we stick with the football side of things we' have coaches, at all let's, physios, doctor, kit staff etc all to pay.

 

We then have shop staff, ticketing staff, marketing, commercial etc. Numerous catering, bar, cleaning staff etc

 

Those figures likely include pay offs for those unfortunate enough to lose their jobs during our admin too.

 

It's worth looking at other clubs costs outside the playing staff. Aberdeen do pretty easy to follow accounts.

 

Its only ?6500 Per Day, if you divided this by 30 (Will be more) gives you just over ?200 a day per person... Sometimes you look at the BIG Figure and think FFS, break it down and it becomes more realistic.

[hughesie27]

So if All costs remained the same this season and we can now add in around 7000 more Season Ticket sales (Average say ?280) , your talking close on another 2 Million Pounds

Average Season ticket price will be a fair bit lower I reckon.

Let me do some sums...

[kingantti1874]

 

 

So if All costs remained the same this season and we can now add in around 7000 more Season Ticket sales (Average say ?280) , your talking close on another 2 Million Pounds

 

Closer to 9000 more..

 

The income form the league cup surprised me given we made it to the semi's, I'm surprised at how low it was

[hughesie27]

Average Season ticket price will be a fair bit lower I reckon.

Let me do some sums...

 

Actually you may be quite accurate. If 3500 were sold during admin and raised just over a million then that works out at ?288 per ST.

 

With this years being slightly cheaper maybe a better estimate would be ?250. This would bring in ?3million for 12000 sold.

[davieholt]

Why don't Hearts look to doing digital match day programmes ?

 

Available for download from the website (and maybe from here ?) for a small fee.

 

No more publishing costs.

 

Good idea. It could also be up to date unlike the current programs which are always a couple of weeks behind events.

[Questy]

Actually you may be quite accurate. If 3500 were sold during admin and raised just over a million then that works out at ?288 per ST.

 

With this years being slightly cheaper maybe a better estimate would be ?250. This would bring in ?3million for 12000 sold.

 

Yeh but I was deducting the Season Ticket Sales from last season after we went into Admin, thus giving us the added Income off around 2 Million pounds (Very rough figure and most likely more ) this season...

[Thomaso]

 

Surprised that anyone would begrudge Scott Wilson ?100 per match.

 

In the scheme of things it's pennies and he does a heck of a lot for the club in others ways

 

Poor show IMO

 

We are very lucky to have Scott Wilson - TOP man

[Beverley]

this is actually a terrific idea in my opinion. i suspect he'd be too humble to accept anything over and above though

 

Scott Wilson is well underpaid at roughly ?20 an hour (?100 a game for 5 hours work). Dont forget he does the mid-week games and the hospitality areas too. Great ambassador for our club.

JKB should take over paying his wages and give him ?200 a game IMO. He deserves it.

Mods, can you get a survey up to see what the KB'ers think about that.

Great shout! Rather than sponsor kits we should sponsor Scott. After all, he was the creator of this place.

[Francis Albert]

Interesting that our ?1.4m "top up" is alone 40% more than the total ST income we survived on last season.

[Footballfirst]

Interesting that our ?1.4m "top up" is alone 40% more than the total ST income we survived on last season.

 

Yes at a net value of ?250, it's equivalent to 5,600 extra STs so we will have to survive on the equivalent of 17,600 STs next season.

 

Could be a bit tight finance wise.

[Carl Fredrickson]

FF - thanks for posting these figures. Your posts are always worth reading and I enjoy your financial stuff and you youth player stuff greatly. Keep up the good work.

 

Whilst the income looks promising, very promising, I would imagine that our costs will increase by quite a bit this season too.

 

We have more coaches and by the sound of it a scouting system

 

A club statement shortly after the takeover mentioned how the club was (I paraphrase) run into the ground and would need to be totally restructured. I imagine that this will take quite a bit of financial investment.

 

Also I imagine that our income this season may be affected by reduction is TV money and sponsor money.

 

The season ticket and merchandise sales this season have been amazing so hopefully that will compensate for the aforementioned reductions.

[kingantti1874]

 

 

Yes at a net value of ?250, it's equivalent to 5,600 extra STs so we will have to survive on the equivalent of 17,600 STs next season.

 

Could be a bit tight finance wise.

 

Given the "top up" is tax free, it probably equates to a larger number of season tickets than that does it not?

[WorldChampions1902]

 

 

 

Given the "top up" is tax free, it probably equates to a larger number of season tickets than that does it not?

Correct! VAT Is 20% so you can add 25% onto that figure.

[Footballfirst]

Given the "top up" is tax free, it probably equates to a larger number of season tickets than that does it not?

 

That's why I used a net figure of ?250 (?300 inc VAT). If the average price of a ST is lower, then the ?1.4M would "buy" more STs.

[Ray Gin]

 

 

Probably about standard? Most folk are on Double Time at the weekend?

 

?33 an hour is far from a standard rate of pay.

[LungsOfMidlothian]

#scottwilsonOUT

[RobNox]

So because our income was less than our expenses during admin, does that mean we cheated our way to 4 derby wins last season?

Yup, we just can't help ourselves, can we?

[RobNox]

Closer to 9000 more..

 

The income form the league cup surprised me given we made it to the semi's, I'm surprised at how low it was

Wee cup, wee dosh!

[RobNox]

FF - thanks for posting these figures. Your posts are always worth reading and I enjoy your financial stuff and you youth player stuff greatly. Keep up the good work.

 

Whilst the income looks promising, very promising, I would imagine that our costs will increase by quite a bit this season too.

 

We have more coaches and by the sound of it a scouting system

 

A club statement shortly after the takeover mentioned how the club was (I paraphrase) run into the ground and would need to be totally restructured. I imagine that this will take quite a bit of financial investment.

 

Also I imagine that our income this season may be affected by reduction is TV money and sponsor money.

 

The season ticket and merchandise sales this season have been amazing so hopefully that will compensate for the aforementioned reductions.

We also receive a parachute payment, not sure how much it is but it will partly compensate for reduced TV / SPL prize money.

[SUTOL]

?33 an hour is far from a standard rate of pay.

 

That's not his hourly rate.

Anyway it's his own business so it's not comparable to a basic hourly wage an employee receives, even if it was correct.

[Shaggy2]

 

 

Closer to 9000 more..

 

The income form the league cup surprised me given we made it to the semi's, I'm surprised at how low it was

?81,000 gate receipts from SFA Cup seemed low to me as well. Even with vat added on that's still under ?100K for a Celtic match. weren't adult tickets ?20 and kids ?10? That figure looks like a 10k crowd of kids!

[Footballfirst]

?81,000 gate receipts from SFA Cup seemed low to me as well. Even with vat added on that's still under ?100K for a Celtic match. weren't adult tickets ?20 and kids ?10? That figure looks like a 10k crowd of kids!

 

The crowd against Celtic was only 10,636. With shared gates in cup ties we only had the income of half the gate money. An average of ?15 per ticket (net of VAT) sounds about right.

[Norm]

 

We also receive a parachute payment, not sure how much it is but it will partly compensate for reduced TV / SPL prize money.

 

The parachute payment for us is about ?300,000. That along with a 2nd place finish this season sees us bring in the same as last season's prize money.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Nah, no matter what, ?2,350,000 is a ******* bizarre amount of money to be paying out in admin and no it doesn't include owed wages.

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Nah, no matter what, ?2,350,000 is a ******* bizarre amount of money to be paying out in admin and no it doesn't include owed wages.

We were in admin for almost a year. Our normal wage bill when CL was managing was twice that amount. I'm not surprised at all bearing in mind it probably includes things like win bonuses or appearance money.

[Jammy T]

It helps emphasise to me why FOH direct debits should continue beyond loan repayment. That extra income per annum can make a big difference

[Melbourne Jambo]

?8,200 for pitch maintenance is very low, do we use a contractor nowadays or do we have our own groundsman/ground staff...?

 

.

 

According to the stadium tour I did last week we have one groundsman (I'd imagine his wage is including in the wages amount) and the 8200 is for supplies etc..

 

Those that help him on matchday are volunteers I'm led to believe.

[Rocky jamboa]

 

 

How is that really high? ?278k for a top class sports facility, 24/7, all year round.

 

Folk have some bizarre ideas.

 

Not really. ?20k a month to "rent" training facilities is rediculous. I've been checking out premiership clubs costs for building better spec facilities and the cost is ?4-6m to build and own. Some like arsenal and England are understandably more.

[Unknown user]

The hire of training facilities seems really high at ?278k, as does steward match costs, rent and rates. Thought riccarton was a joint project between hearts and Heriot watt? Was it maybe paid for by HW and this sum is paying our half back?

It's a pretty good deal, we can't complain. It's less than Hibs pay to keep east mains running and how's this for context - our annual cost is less than it costs Rangers PER MONTH to keep Murray Park going

[Footballfirst]

Not really. ?20k a month to "rent" training facilities is rediculous. I've been checking out premiership clubs costs for building better spec facilities and the cost is ?4-6m to build and own. Some like arsenal and England are understandably more.

 

And even if you own the facilities there are ongoing costs. The grass doesn't cut itself, the buildings don't maintain themselves. There are rates to be paid by HWU. You still need utilities, cleaning etc. We benefit from the staff that the University employs at the Academy but we don't have to pay their employment costs (NIC or Pensions). The Riccarton arrangement also gives us access to the HWU Sports Science department. ?278K is extremely cheap for what we get.

[Paolo]

 

 

And even if you own the facilities there are ongoing costs. The grass doesn't cut itself, the buildings don't maintain themselves. There are rates to be paid by HWU. You still need utilities, cleaning etc. We benefit from the staff that the University employs at the Academy but we don't have to pay their employment costs (NIC or Pensions). The Riccarton arrangement also gives us access to the HWU Sports Science department. ?278K is extremely cheap for what we get.

 

Very much so.