rudi must stay Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Trust me, as erratic as it's been it's still better than 98% of the rest of TV. Thinking about it, last night was probably too ambitious. It's a very tricky concept to pull off - effectively mixing a Proustian 'madeleine' style series of memories that culminate in the solving of a mystery in real time. This all needs to be carried by an entertaining narration and they also had to develop existing and burgeoning relationships. None of the parts were done particularly poorly, but as a whole it felt unsatisfying. I guess something closer to the straightforward linear narrative where they are brought a problem and solve it is going to be more productive. However, they were trying something that was technically very difficult to do and still be fathomable. To have it remain intelligible, nevermind frequently entertaining, instantly places it above the vast majority of other TV, who struggle with even the most basic story telling. It was a load of nonsense, I didn't understand most of it. But they brought it together nicely at the end, Cumberbatch raised his game and when he does, you have to appreciate how good an actor he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It was a load of nonsense, I didn't understand most of it. But they brought it together nicely at the end, Cumberbatch raised his game and when he does, you have to appreciate how good an actor he is Although, one might argue, if you understand everything that is happening whilst it's happening it's a pretty shit mystery. Unless it's Columbo, it should always be foggy and then clear at the conclusion. But the structure is pretty clear: 'Holmes gives a speech at John's wedding. The speech involves tales of their adventures. Features of these tales combine to allow Holmes to pre-empt and then solve a murder that is taking place at the wedding.' If you found that nonsense then you're entitled to, but, if anything, i found it too simple and bitty with any mystery being confined to each vignette and therefore being solved too quickly, barring the conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The mysteries have been pretty weak so far but Cumberbatch knocked it out the park on last night's episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Hudson Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The writers should be applauded for being so brave and bold with the narrative. If they had dealt with the big Holmes 'fake death reveal' in the first 10 minutes of episode one then just carried on with traditional murder mystery narrative for 3 episodes they'd be getting pilloried for a lack of imagination. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am enjoying series 3 - the acting is as good as we will see on BBC and I think the change in style from the previous 3 series is a deliberate move to prevent it getting too repetitive. i think episode 3 will go some way to explain why Watson was in the bonfire but will also leave us a cliffhanger. When is series 4? Edit Just read an online article saying that Holmes and Watson signed up for two 3 episodes series - this one and another. The writers already have 4 planned out though i dont know if filming has started. It may be that the guy we say aw the end of episode 1 plays a big part in episode 3 and the series 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The writers should be applauded for being so brave and bold with the narrative. If they had dealt with the big Holmes 'fake death reveal' in the first 10 minutes of episode one then just carried on with traditional murder mystery narrative for 3 episodes they'd be getting pilloried for a lack of imagination. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Doubt they would to be honest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am enjoying series 3 - the acting is as good as we will see on BBC and I think the change in style from the previous 3 series is a deliberate move to prevent it getting too repetitive. i think episode 3 will go some way to explain why Watson was in the bonfire but will also leave us a cliffhanger. When is series 4? Edit Just read an online article saying that Holmes and Watson signed up for two 3 episodes series - this one and another. The writers already have 4 planned out though i dont know if filming has started. It may be that the guy we say aw the end of episode 1 plays a big part in episode 3 and the series 4 Well season 2 was 2 years ago so can imagine it will be at least that amount of time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The extended delay was due to changes in filming of The Hobbit IIRC. I'd imagine we will get another series this time next year. The BBC will move heaven and earth to accommodate both star's schedules over the next year that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Just read a piece in the Independent saying Holmes' new enemy become clear in the next episode. And it potentially pitches him against Mycroft in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Just read a piece in the Independent saying Holmes' new enemy become clear in the next episode. And it potentially pitches him against Mycroft in some way. THanks for ruining it for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Although, one might argue, if you understand everything that is happening whilst it's happening it's a pretty shit mystery. Unless it's Columbo, it should always be foggy and then clear at the conclusion. But the structure is pretty clear: 'Holmes gives a speech at John's wedding. The speech involves tales of their adventures. Features of these tales combine to allow Holmes to pre-empt and then solve a murder that is taking place at the wedding.' If you found that nonsense then you're entitled to, but, if anything, i found it too simple and bitty with any mystery being confined to each vignette and therefore being solved too quickly, barring the conclusion. Its missing the spark the other 2 series' had for me. But hopefully they're keeping something in reserve for the last episode, the return of Moriarty would be great. I think its suffering without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 THanks for ruining it for everybody. In which way did I report more than the press. I actually left a lot out. Such as his name for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 In which way did I report more than the press. I actually left a lot out. Such as his name for example. Thanks for ruining it though. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Thanks for ruining it though. Cheers. If it spoiled it for you all I can say is, my pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fingersreid Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I enjoyed it but it wasn't what I was expecting I do think it's got a battle on with elementary tho as JL Miller is very good in that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The episodes of series 1 and 2 were modern versions of the works of Conan Doyle and in that way felt more Sherlock Holmes like. Series 3 thus far has veered away from the Conan Doyle works, I'm yet to decide whether that has been successful or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Any idea where I might find the first season of this online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Any idea where I might find the first season of this online? Did you pick up any wedding tips from the last episode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Did you pick up any wedding tips from the last episode? I haven't seen any episodes at all yet! I'll keep a notepad handy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Cancel that. found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I haven't seen any episodes at all yet! I'll keep a notepad handy though. Congratulations btw. You are a radiant flower, a delight to behold..blabla whatever Gorgiewave said - but seriously, chuffed for you. If you go on projectfree.tv you should find links to the site there. Virginmedia block it so you may have to go through a proxy site. (takes seconds). EDIT - Let us know where you found it. Struggling for good streaming sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Johnson Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The episodes of series 1 and 2 were modern versions of the works of Conan Doyle and in that way felt more Sherlock Holmes like. Series 3 thus far has veered away from the Conan Doyle works, I'm yet to decide whether that has been successful or not. I think they're being quite wary of moving too far away from the books though, hence the acknowledgements to Sign of the Four in episode 2. Obviously they were going to use Sholto and Small's names but enjoyed the other references such as suggestion of the midget killer, Holmes/Watson (briefly) accused of the murder etc. Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I thought episode 2 was much better than episode 1. The speech/wedding unifying 2 old and one new case was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 A 4th and 5th season has been planned by the producers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Just watched episode 2 and it was quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 telt you she was a wrong un Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortarkod Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'm not to sure about this series. I think elementary is better, takes a while to get used to jonny lee miller as Holmes though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 bit too emotional all round this series. not enough pay off. hopefully Jim is actually back and it's not a cocktease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicksojo Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 That was awesome. Not in the "streetwise, skateboard and s**t" sense but in the literal meaning of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 bit too emotional all round this series. not enough pay off. hopefully Jim is actually back and it's not a cocktease. Do u think he will be? I didn't see any of the first two series so don't know if he could have faked his death as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Brilliant. Best thing on telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Do u think he will be? I didn't see any of the first two series so don't know if he could have faked his death as well. He put a gun to his head (or in his mouth) & fired. Could have been a blank I suppose, or somebody else with his face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynecastle Valhalla Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 That was cracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Hudson Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I'm not to sure about this series. I think elementary is better, takes a while to get used to jonny lee miller as Holmes though Trolling is against forum rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19/5HMFC12 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Do u think he will be? I didn't see any of the first two series so don't know if he could have faked his death as well. The whole bit at the end could have been set up by SH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 He put a gun to his head (or in his mouth) & fired. Could have been a blank I suppose, or somebody else with his face... Yeah I thought it looked like it could have been someone else doing it on a computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Do u think he will be? I didn't see any of the first two series so don't know if he could have faked his death as well. Anything can be explained. That's the fun. He's not necessary, but someone to fill his position is for the show to work over several episodes. I was dubious as the 'miss me?' message in the episode was just a cut out of him, but the clip at the end was pretty cut and dried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden Gorgie Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Gutted the series is over already, best thing on the box. Superb acting all round Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The whole bit at the end could have been set up by SH Can't see it tbh, based on that and the wee snippet at the end of the credits I feel the next series will be billed more as the return of Moriarty vs Sherlock. To then have it revealed as a ruse by Sherlock would be a big let down. I've enjoyed this series, if as has been said there's going to be a 4th & 5th series then I think these episodes have almost been a bridge between the first two based on the Conan Doyle stories going onto an original line of stories with a sub-plot with Moriarty's return. Class it along the lines of Empire Strikes Back and Two Towers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Certainly redeemed itself tonight, thought the new villain was brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Congratulations btw. You are a radiant flower, a delight to behold..blabla whatever Gorgiewave said - but seriously, chuffed for you. If you go on projectfree.tv you should find links to the site there. Virginmedia block it so you may have to go through a proxy site. (takes seconds). EDIT - Let us know where you found it. Struggling for good streaming sites. Thank you I ended up getting the whole shebang off one of those PirateBay mirror site things rather than streaming and I've now watched every single episode, including the 7 minute 'special' and last night's offering. I don't understand how it took me so long to cotton on to this one, it's brilliant. I was in the Benedict Cumberbatch fan club before the end of the first episode. Cracking entertainment. Very more'ish, I really need to learn how to space these things out in sensible doses so that it's not all over so quickly. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 audience figures are down for the second week running, just as well its finished. of the 3 episodes not one was about solving a case as such "the thing holmes did" got weirder by the episode, a writer,producer and director getting carried away by their early success, alien abductions in dallas springs to mind with moriaty at the end, international blackmailer getting free reign, holmes getting exiled, watsons new wife being a fuct up bitch, their parents being a couple of fruit loops all to much and that was just the last episode. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 audience figures are down for the second week running, just as well its finished. of the 3 episodes not one was about solving a case as such "the thing holmes did" got weirder by the episode, a writer,producer and director getting carried away by their early success, alien abductions in dallas springs to mind with moriaty at the end, international blackmailer getting free reign, holmes getting exiled, watsons new wife being a fuct up bitch, their parents being a couple of fruit loops all to much and that was just the last episode. . Possibly true. I think the scene with his mind palace, redeems the show though. What a phenomenal scene. It didn't go as far as Breaking Bad, to its credit, that seems to be above criticism, even though there as some absolutely vile scenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 What was the point in showing Sherlock and Watson being patted down by Magnusson's security before their first meeting if he was going to allow them to stroll into his house at the end without so much as a bodyguard in the vicinity? Especially after he's recently survived another assassination attempt? Don't get me wrong. I do like the show and Cumberbatch is great to watch but I just think the writing is often quite lacking. It seems to write itself into a corner by setting up these elaborate plots and characters but doesn't actually bother with satisfactory outcomes which leaves it all feeling a bit anti-climactic. As much as I loved watching Moriarty and he was one of the most enjoyable TV performances of recent years I did cringe a bit at the ending scene because it all seems a bit "jump the shark-esque". I think the format has really started to hurt the show this season. The episodes are too long to cover a simple, self-contained mystery but the 3 episode season doesn't allow long enough for the season long stories to really develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 audience figures are down for the second week running, just as well its finished. of the 3 episodes not one was about solving a case as such "the thing holmes did" got weirder by the episode, a writer,producer and director getting carried away by their early success, alien abductions in dallas springs to mind with moriaty at the end, international blackmailer getting free reign, holmes getting exiled, watsons new wife being a fuct up bitch, their parents being a couple of fruit loops all to much and that was just the last episode. . Given that the first episode was always going to be huge, i think to say that viewing figures have gone down doesnt say much. How much did the figures go down by? And if people didnt watch last night's episode, more full them. Anyway, realistic audience figures include catch up figures which allow a week. But congrats on being contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 What was the point in showing Sherlock and Watson being patted down by Magnusson's security before their first meeting if he was going to allow them to stroll into his house at the end without so much as a bodyguard in the vicinity? Especially after he's recently survived another assassination attempt? At first he doesnt 'own them'. Or atleast they dont know he owns them. By the end of the show he's flicking them in the face. He's arrogant and a bully which is his downfall. Hubris and nemesis and all that. Anyway. The real reason was so that john could say, "that doesnt mean i'm not happy to see you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Given that the first episode was always going to be huge, i think to say that viewing figures have gone down doesnt say much. How much did the figures go down by? And if people didnt watch last night's episode, more full them. Anyway, realistic audience figures include catch up figures which allow a week. But congrats on being contrary. 910,000 to 840,000 to 800,000 doesn't really matter if it was only 1 a week the fact people aren't watching again says it all. the show has got way to abstract and disjointed and unnesessarily complicated from the 1st 2 series. sherlock holmes solves cases not this playing out a mysterious soap opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 910,000 to 840,000 to 800,000 doesn't really matter if it was only 1 a week the fact people aren't watching again says it all. the show has got way to abstract and disjointed and unnesessarily complicated from the 1st 2 series. sherlock holmes solves cases not this playing out a mysterious soap opera. you'll need to talk me through that as the first episode was watched by 9.2 million, with 3.5 million watching on catch up (which is a record btw). It dropped to JUST 8.84 million for the second episode. Given that it wasnt the most anticipated and discussed british tv return of the last two years, as was episode 1, i'd say that's a fair return. Havent been able to turn up figures for last night i'm afraid. Do you have a link? It doesnt say it all however. 96% of people watched the second, and given the phenomenal interest in the opener i'd say that was a pretty decent return. Seems very odd to focus on the 4% who watched the first episode live but didnt watch the second live. You dont care for it, but to extrapolate that out to the wider public is not borne out by the facts i'm afraid. edit. It dropped by 70, 000 viewers on sunday night to JUST 8.77million. Meaning a drop of less than 1%. You're talking nonsense. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jan/13/sherlock-finale-bbc1-dancing-on-ice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 At first he doesnt 'own them'. Or atleast they dont know he owns them. By the end of the show he's flicking them in the face. He's arrogant and a bully which is his downfall. Hubris and nemesis and all that. Yeah I got that but it just wasn't for me. Spend the episode setting up an interesting antagonist who in the end is beaten by being flat out murdered in cold blood. Whilst Magnusson was undoubtedly arrogant we are shown that his personal safety is something he considers (security at his offices, bodyguard presence) so it didn't add up for me that he would throw that all away to meet up with two people who are out to get him. It's more a personal taste thing at this point though. The show seems to be moving away from relying on Sherlock's genius to solve interesting mysteries towards being more of a character drama so if that works for you then all power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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