Paulie Walnut Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Right I will put it out there........again! We are facing liquidation in the face and we are scared to talk about it. I have held my toungue on the FOH bid until now and it has benn shown up as an amateurish and shallow proposition at best and are not the answer. We will go into admin within two weeks and then we will be liquidated due to HMRC forcing the issue on their debt and not accepting an offer. We need to start realising that this is the journey we are going on and need to stay strong. Our money is not best served by giving it HMFC now but at the start of our next journey as a new entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 We will only be liquidated if a winding up order occurs and isn't addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantjambo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 People won't want to admit it mate but it's hard not to think about this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Right I will put it out there........again! We are facing liquidation in the face and we are scared to talk about it. I have held my toungue on the FOH bid until now and it has benn shown up as an amateurish and shallow proposition at best and are not the answer. We will go into admin within two weeks and then we will be liquidated due to HMRC forcing the issue on their debt and not accepting an offer. We need to start realising that this is the journey we are going on and need to stay strong. Our money is not best served by giving it HMFC now but at the start of our next journey as a new entity. That's a great story but HMRC wouldn't have the power to put us into liquidation if we entered administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Right I will put it out there........again! We are facing liquidation in the face and we are scared to talk about it. I have held my toungue on the FOH bid until now and it has benn shown up as an amateurish and shallow proposition at best and are not the answer. We will go into admin within two weeks and then we will be liquidated due to HMRC forcing the issue on their debt and not accepting an offer. We need to start realising that this is the journey we are going on and need to stay strong. Our money is not best served by giving it HMFC now but at the start of our next journey as a new entity. I Used to like Mr Benn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59WeXLfXoq0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad von Carstein Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Has it not been said that HMRC cannot force this as they are not the major creditor? If this is so your post is an unnecessary distraction and adds fuel to the tabloids agenda and gives succor tothe many hibs WUMs on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skacel goal Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 If the sad state of liquidation does occur, then will we be voted back into the third division, if saying that we lose everything (history, name and stadium) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 We will only be liquidated if a winding up order occurs and isn't addressed. What happens if we go into administration and a cva can't be reached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Right I will put it out there........again! We are facing liquidation in the face and we are scared to talk about it. I have held my toungue on the FOH bid until now and it has benn shown up as an amateurish and shallow proposition at best and are not the answer. We will go into admin within two weeks and then we will be liquidated due to HMRC forcing the issue on their debt and not accepting an offer. We need to start realising that this is the journey we are going on and need to stay strong. Our money is not best served by giving it HMFC now but at the start of our next journey as a new entity. I smell shite ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 What happens if we go into administration and a cva can't be reached? HMRC will be royally shafted as their vote is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 What happens if we go into administration and a cva can't be reached? I'm glad I've not had to wade through pages of tripe before people have responded with actual facts. Posters above have rightly pointed out that HMRC is not even close to being the largest creditor. Re not being able to reach a CVA. My opinion on that is the only danger is if you have lots of creditors with small voting rights not being able to reach an agreement. As it stands, the majority of the debt is under one or two roofs which is unlikely to result in this conclusion. Where FF when you need him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos_1874 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Please don't mention the "L" word. We need to do absolutely everything in our power to avoid this and we only get one shot at this before there's no way back. Has a winding up order been issued yet though due to the fact that we haven't paid all of the tax due? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobreath Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I'm always slightly wary of posters that aren't paid up members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I'm glad I've not had to wade through pages of tripe before people have responded with actual facts. Posters above have rightly pointed out that HMRC is not even close to being the largest creditor. Re not being able to reach a CVA. My opinion on that is the only danger is if you have lots of creditors with small voting rights not being able to reach an agreement. As it stands, the majority of the debt is under one or two roofs which is unlikely to result in this conclusion. Where FF when you need him! My concern is if Ukio's administrators and ubig refused an offer of whatever pence in the pound would this lead to liquidation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Wont happen but its the wait thats killing us all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 My concern is if Ukio's administrators and ubig refused an offer of whatever pence in the pound would this lead to liquidation? Yes, but I'm confident a CVA would be agreed. If FoH don't have the ability to propose a reasonable bid if those circumstances came to fruition then they would deserve a massive amount of flack for deflecting attention of the fans ? but surely this is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarJambo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Right I will put it out there........again! We are facing liquidation in the face and we are scared to talk about it. I have held my toungue on the FOH bid until now and it has benn shown up as an amateurish and shallow proposition at best and are not the answer. We will go into admin within two weeks and then we will be liquidated due to HMRC forcing the issue on their debt and not accepting an offer. We need to start realising that this is the journey we are going on and need to stay strong. Our money is not best served by giving it HMFC now but at the start of our next journey as a new entity. I have been encouraging people to pump cash in to the club for ages now but its time to stop, hold on to your cash. save it for when we need it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mussi hmfc Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Wont happen but its the wait thats killing us all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I have been encouraging people to pump cash in to the club for ages now but its time to stop, hold on to your cash. save it for when we need it Via pledges I hope you mean!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Sifting through the morass of UBIG and what not will take ages. What a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 My concern is if Ukio's administrators and ubig refused an offer of whatever pence in the pound would this lead to liquidation? Its not the usual pence in the pound offer as the assets hold more value than normal. All that'll happen is the admin will command a much better price. Bear in mind that to liquidate means more cost with creditors receiving less. Administrators try and avoid this and even getting a couple of million would be a result compared to liquidating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rust Cohle Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 That's a great story but HMRC wouldn't have the power to put us into liquidation if we entered administration. Eh...they would if their winding up order is successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kram Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I have been encouraging people to pump cash in to the club for ages now but its time to stop, hold on to your cash. save it for when we need it The penny drops Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 What happens if we go into administration and a cva can't be reached? Yes, that is another possibility. The OP's scenario, as he/she paints it, isn't a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kram Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Its not the usual pence in the pound offer as the assets hold more value than normal. All that'll happen is the admin will command a much better price. Bear in mind that to liquidate means more cost with creditors receiving less. Administrators try and avoid this and even getting a couple of million would be a result compared to liquidating. Liquidation is the last thing the creditors want cause they will end up with peanuts even compared to administration. Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermit the Krog Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Eh...they would if their winding up order is successful. It wouldn't be though. The club would (and be successful in) applying for voluntary admin before it hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Yes, but I'm confident a CVA would be agreed. If FoH don't have the ability to propose a reasonable bid if those circumstances came to fruition then they would deserve a massive amount of flack for deflecting attention of the fans ? but surely this is not the case. Its not the usual pence in the pound offer as the assets hold more value than normal. All that'll happen is the admin will command a much better price. Bear in mind that to liquidate means more cost with creditors receiving less. Administrators try and avoid this and even getting a couple of million would be a result compared to liquidating. Cheers guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broxburn_Jambo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I think we are now in the position when OP's have no badword idea what they are talking about then it should be declared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDudley Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 If the sad state of liquidation does occur, then will we be voted back into the third division, if saying that we lose everything (history, name and stadium) just like Rangers. oh wait, that's not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broxburn_Jambo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 ridiculous that posts are being moderated when the club is in crisis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaka Demus & pliers Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 ridiculous that posts are being moderated when the club is in crisis Agreed. **** you ya *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaka Demus & pliers Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Agreed. **** you ya *****. Swear filter still on too?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 just like Rangers. oh wait, that's not right. Rangers have lost their name and stadium. Stadium was sold to Sevco and the name was changed to RFC to allow Sevco to change their name to Rangers, all they have left is their history, and unpaid debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Right I will put it out there........again! We are facing liquidation in the face and we are scared to talk about it. I have held my toungue on the FOH bid until now and it has benn shown up as an amateurish and shallow proposition at best and are not the answer. We will go into admin within two weeks and then we will be liquidated due to HMRC forcing the issue on their debt and not accepting an offer. We need to start realising that this is the journey we are going on and need to stay strong. Our money is not best served by giving it HMFC now but at the start of our next journey as a new entity. Firstly, re the bold bit, HMRC aren't nearly a big enough creditor of us to block a CVA. In the event of administration, whether HMRC would accept an offer or not would be irrelevant, it would be all about the Ukio Bankas administrator and whoever would be in a position to accept or reject a CVA for UBIG. If both of those parties accepted, HMRC would just get what was due to them under the CVA terms, whether they liked it or not. As for your last paragraph, I can only assume that's an attempt at trolling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broxburn_Jambo Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Agreed. **** you ya *****. that better be a joke ya ***** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rust Cohle Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 It wouldn't be though. The club would (and be successful in) applying for voluntary admin before it hit. You're assuming that the club would apply for voluntary admin. That's the point I'm making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 People won't want to admit it mate but it's hard not to think about this scenario. Liquidation is a possibility, but only if the Ukio administrator and/or whoever can speak for UBIG reject any CVA proposals. The OP is talking twaddle re HMRC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Wont happen but its the wait thats killing us all.... What would happen if we totally run out of cash? Do we go into administration or to we go straight to liquidation ? I think we must be very close to applying for administration as there doesn't appear to be much, if any cash left. How do we function if there is literally no cash ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I'm glad I've not had to wade through pages of tripe before people have responded with actual facts. Posters above have rightly pointed out that HMRC is not even close to being the largest creditor. Re not being able to reach a CVA. My opinion on that is the only danger is if you have lots of creditors with small voting rights not being able to reach an agreement. As it stands, the majority of the debt is under one or two roofs which is unlikely to result in this conclusion. Where FF when you need him! That is a danger, the other big (indeed, bigger) danger is if HMRC are due 25% or more of your debts, and you've been deliberately not paying your taxes. They won't accept a CVA if you've been deliberately not paying taxes (as was the case with the now defunct Rangers). They will consider accepting one if a company has been paying, or trying to pay, its taxes as much as it could up to the point where it went into administration. It's questionable what view they would take of us here - it seems clear we've tried to pay tax bills as much as possible recently, but then there's the whole thing about tax liabilities re Kaunas loans, which muddies the waters somewhat. Of course, as they're not due even remotely close to 25% of our debts, that's rather irrelevant anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Liquidation won't happen, unless no buyer steps forward even then we'd probably have to go through our very own craig shyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 My concern is if Ukio's administrators and ubig refused an offer of whatever pence in the pound would this lead to liquidation? Yes, it would. We'd be utterly Donald Ducked in that scenario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tott Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 If the sad state of liquidation does occur, then will we be voted back into the third division, if saying that we lose everything (history, name and stadium) You cant erase history,no matter what the wallopers on here said about rangers... 3rd division sod all ....anyway,would be free to go where we want.. England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I have been encouraging people to pump cash in to the club for ages now but its time to stop, hold on to your cash. save it for when we need it Nonsense (IOM, of course)!!!!! We need it now, desperately and urgently! As Bob Rat once said, "give us your money, we need your feckin money"!!!! What's needed (and urgently) is for all those people who haven't renewed their season tickets yet, but can afford to do so (which will be the cast majority of them), to get them renewed ASAP. Administration is a massive, absolutely massive, gamble and could prove utterly catastrophic for the club. At best, it will prove highly damaging and hugely humiliating. If all those holding back up to now get the finger out and renew, the club will be well placed to get through the next couple of months and to the point where TV money, sponsorship money, match day income, etc, starts to come in again. There's no doubt that ultimately, a deal needs to be done with Ukio/UBIG's respective administrators regarding the debt to them, as well as their ownership of the majority of the club's shares, but it would be far better for the club if administration could be avoided in the intervening period, however long that might be, and it's pretty much entirely up to the club's fans to put in the money required to achieve this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 The penny drops Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Aye, cos we're awash with cash at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Eh...they would if their winding up order is successful. Administration would protect us from any winding up orders. As would past season ticket holders that haven't renewed yet, getting their acts together and doing so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Liquidation is the last thing the creditors want cause they will end up with peanuts even compared to administration. Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 4 Beta That would depend entirely on what they were being offered via a CVA compared to what they believe could be obtained through selling closing the club down and selling off the assets. If a CVA was proposed that offered only 1p in the pound to creditors, Ukio's administrator would almost certainly do better by rejecting it, exercising its security over Tynecastle, and selling the ground for whatever it could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 What would happen if we totally run out of cash? Do we go into administration or to we go straight to liquidation ? I think we must be very close to applying for administration as there doesn't appear to be much, if any cash left. How do we function if there is literally no cash ? The club will have to apply for voluntary administration if HMRC apply for a winding up order and the club can't get the money together to pay the outstanding bill before a winding up order would be granted. The alternative would be that the club dies. This can all be avoided if those who haven't already done so renew their season tickets urgently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairdin Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 You cant erase history,no matter what the wallopers on here said about rangers... 3rd division sod all ....anyway,would be free to go where we want.. England Sorry mate, completely disagree. Liquidation is unlikely, but possible. If the worst happens, it is the end of Heart of Midlothian. Finished. I'm sure a phoenix club will rise from the debris. The new club will start at the bottom. No Scottish Cup wins, no League titles, no League Cups. I couldn't watch a newco Hearts play Hibs and sing "we only won 5-1" because we didn't. Heart of Midlothian did. Liquidation is the end as far as I'm concerned. Anything that follows is entirely new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 You cant erase history,no matter what the wallopers on here said about rangers... 3rd division sod all ....anyway,would be free to go where we want.. England Yes, you can - history goes with the oldco, unless you believe the pish the Huns are spouting. If you do, then presumably you would accept that if I bought an Olympic gold medal from Sir Chris Hoy I could stick it on my mantelpiece and claim to be an Olympic champion? Of course, I couldn't because I didn't win it - just like Sevco hasn't won 54, or whatever it is, league titles - they've won one because they're only a year old. RFCRIP won the rest. If we get liquidated, we lose this too, including 5-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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