1874 Fighting Fund

[1874 Fighting Fund]

1874 Fighting Fund

 

This is a thread that has kindly been made available to the 1874 Fighting Fund by the Management Team of Jambos Kickback, to allow us to introduce our organisation, and to try to answer any questions you may have.

 

We have included below a post containing a brief explanation of who and what the 1874 Fighting Fund is, and what we are trying to achieve.

 

Below that is a post containing some Q?s & A?s that we think will help cover some of the basic queries that you may have, but if you have any additional questions, please feel free to ask them on this thread, and we will answer them as best we can, and as soon as we can.

 

The 1874 Fighting Fund are still getting everything up and running, so please bear with us as other parts come on-stream over the coming days, including; Website; Twitter; Facebook; Email; and Paypal, but we were very keen to start the ball rolling on JKB, at the time the final whistle went, exactly one year ago today!

 

Post your questions below and we will answer them as soon as we can, but please be patient with us, as we are all just unpaid volunteers doing what we can in our ?spare? time, to help the Club we all love.

 

Please try to avoid debating points on this thread, so that questions do not get ?lost?. Please note that all formal answers will only ever come from the official 1874 Fighting Fund account, not from any individuals.

 

Thank you, and Happy 1^st Anniversary!

[1874 Fighting Fund]

1874 Fighting Fund

 

?The aim of the 1874 Fighting Fund is to raise money for the benefit of Heart of Midlothian Football Club, both now and into the future, regardless of who controls the club.?

 

 

How will the 1874 Fighting Fund raise money?

? Predominantly through a series of fund raising events, though of course we will be delighted to accept donations. We will be looking to involve as many people as possible, both throughout the Hearts community, and beyond.

 

How has the 1874 Fighting Fund being set up?

- The 1874 Fighting Fund will be run as a 'Discretionary Trust'. We have had detailed discussions with lawyers, and trust law specialists, about the constitution of the trust, its aims and objectives, membership, selection of trustees etc. and this work is now nearing completion. This is a long term project, so it is important that the 1874 Fighting Fund is set up and run in line with both trust law and best practice, as well as ensuring that it meets all the requirements of HMRC. The trust deed has been signed, and we are now looking to finalise the other documentation.

 

Who is involved?

- The 1874 Fighting Fund has been created by a group of Hearts supporters, some of whom are former players, and the interim trustees will be ?

 

· Jimmy Sandison

· Scott Crabbe

· Ricky Grigg - lifelong Hearts fan and an active member of one of the leading Hearts supporters clubs.

· Davie Gardiner - an Edinburgh based lawyer and Hearts season ticket holder for over 20 years.

 

Once the 1874 Fighting Fund is fully up and running, the trustees will be elected, and the interim trustees above will decide if they wish to stand down, or stand for election.

 

How will the money be spent?

- We have spoken to the Club, provided them with a copy of our trust deed, and have agreed with them a mechanism which will allow the 1874 Fighting Fund to help the Club, whilst being able to demonstrate to its members that the money is being spent in a fully transparent way. The Club are fully supportive of the 1874 Fighting Fund, and have already provided some suggestions as to how some of the Fund?s money might be spent.

 

What do we mean by transparent?

- Any money spent by the 1874 Fighting Fund will be fully receipted, and expenditure will be pre-authorised by the trustees. Details of all income and expenditure will be published online at least quarterly, and the full accounts will be independently audited on an annual basis. Minutes of trustees? meetings, and minutes of future member?s meetings will also be taken and published online.

 

All this will be posted on the 1874 Fighting Fund website to allow members to see exactly what is happening.

 

What happens next?

- The 1874 Fighting Fund's website is still being developed. It will full details of the trust structure (including a copy of the trust deed), and will also contain ?

 

· Q & A which will be updated at least once a week if new questions are received;

· details of future events and other initiatives to raise funds.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

1874 Fighting Fund Q & A

 

Purpose

 

Q ? How will the 1874 Fighting Fund raise money?

 

A ? We have held two fund raising events and others are being planned. Future events will be publicised on this website. We are developing a membership scheme, and also hope that supporters will make lump sum donations.

 

Q ? What is the Fund?s position on ownership of the Club?

 

A ? As supporters we hope that the right model can be found. However, the Fund is here to raise money regardless of who controls the Club, so we are not aligned to any group.

 

Q - Is the 1874 Fighting Fund part of the "G10" group?

 

A - No we are not. We were invited to take part, and indeed did attend a meeting, but have respectfully stepped back from it for two main reasons.

 

i) This group are discussing options for the ownership of HMFC, our aim is to raise funds for the benefit of the Club regardless of who owns it, so it would be a clear conflict of interest were we to continue to attend meetings with the group.

 

ii) We currently have no members, so cannot claim to be "representing" any group of Hearts supporters. The 1874 Fighting Fund supporters will have their personal views and opinions on Hearts? situation, but with no democratic mandate, it would not be appropriate for us to have a collective position.

 

Q ? What is the Club?s view of the Fund?

 

A ? We have met formally with the Club, and provided them with a copy of the 1874 Fighting Fund's trust deed. The Club are fully supportive of our aims and objectives, and have agreed with us a mechanism to allow us to help them, and we are currently finalising the details for the first payments to allow them to get some necessary work done.

 

Q - Are you competing with the club for funds?

 

A ? No.

 

Q ? How much are you looking to raise?

 

A ? As much as possible! In the future discussions with the Club may lead us to aim to raise a set amount of money for a particular purpose, but right now the more money we can raise, the more we can use to the Club's benefit.

 

Q ? What kind of things might the money be spent on?

 

A ? The trustees will listen to suggestions from both the Club, and from supporters.

 

Q ? Why shouldn?t we just give money to the Club?

 

A ? Of course you are absolutely free to do just that, if you wish. The 1874 Fighting Fund will be organising fund raising initiatives, and is more than happy to accept donations, to give a collective way of fans being able to support the Club financially.

 

Q- How can I make a donation?

 

A ? Our website will be available shortly and will have a Paypal facility. Supporters can also pay donations directly into the 1874 Fighting Fund?s bank account. The details are ?

 

Sort code ? 80-22-60

Bank Account number - 10795065

 

Q ? Are there ways in which supporters with special skills (eg in any of the building trades, builders merchants, or any specialist skills) can help the Fund?

 

A ? Yes, we would be happy to discuss any suggestions that you may have.

 

Q - Why create another supporters? group?

 

A - Unlike other groups, we are not representing supporters, we are not lobbying on behalf of members with specific agendas, and we are not involved in discussions about who owns the Club, or how it is run. We are purely here to help raise funds for the benefit of the Club.

 

Constitution

Q ? Why is the Fund set up as a trust?

 

A ? A trust structure means that the funds raised are looked after by trustees who have clear legal duties to use the money in accordance with the purposes of the trust and account for it fully. Details of income and expenditure will be published on the website, and full accounts will be independently audited on an annual basis.

 

Q ? How do I become a member?

 

A ? We currently have no members, but are currently working with our legal advisers to finalise the details of a membership scheme. Once these are ready, we will offer supporters the opportunity to join the Fund as members.

 

Q ? Are you connected with the Heart of Midlothian Supporters Trust?

 

A ? No. We are a different organisation and have absolutely no connection to the HOMST, or any other supporters group.

 

Tax

 

Q ? If I make a donation will Gift Aid apply?

 

A ? No. The Fund?s purpose is to raise funds for the benefit of Heart of Midlothian Football Club, which is a commercial organisation. That means that the 1874 Fighting Fund cannot obtain charitable status.

 

Q ? Are there any tax consequences if I pay money to the Fund?

 

A ? Any supporters who is considering making a substantial donation to the Fund should speak to their own tax advisers.

[maroonlegions]

IF we get relegated will the 1874 fighting fund continue with its agendas on all fronts??

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Sounds good, but I worry this will clash with FOH trying to get money from fans as well.

[Chaka Demus & pliers]

So the FOH will be starting to collect pledges shortly and the 1874FF are also looking for money - bit messy eh?

[JAYEL]

Good to see some positive action.

 

 

Will there be a membership scheme ??

 

 

 

.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

IF we get relegated will the 1874 fighting fund continue with its agendas on all fronts??

 

Absolutely,yes, the division the club is playing in makes no more difference to us than any change of ownership.

[jamboinglasgow]

So as far as I can make out, the 1874 Fighting Fund is going to be an organisation similar to HYDC, except in this case its about providing funds for the club as a whole rather than focusing on just the youth side. So in the way that from HYDC funds they were able to for example sign Kevin McHattie from Dunfermline or fund equipment for the academy, the 1874 Fighting Fund could provide funds for the manager to help sign a player or for equipment to help develop the club off and on the pitch. Am I correct?

[Fermit the Krog]

Scrap that.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Sounds good, but I worry this will clash with FOH trying to get money from fans as well.

 

While more than happy to take any donations, we expect that currently most of our funds will be raised by events, rather than a regular subscription like FOH.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

So the FOH will be starting to collect pledges shortly and the 1874FF are also looking for money - bit messy eh?

 

Perhaps not ideal, but we do feel it is worth doing, as it is for the benefit of HMFC, regardless of ownership.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Good to see some positive action.

 

 

Will there be a membership scheme ??

 

 

 

Yes, it is our intention to introduce one as soon as we are able to.

[J.C 7]

Do AFC Wimbeldon not have a cple of other groups which help supplement income as well as being fan owned? Works for them!?!?

[JAYEL]

Yes, it is our intention to introduce one as soon as we are able to.

 

Excellent

 

 

Would you not like to set up another account to raise funds to buy the club if the opportunity arose ?

 

 

. ok here

[1874 Fighting Fund]

So as far as I can make out, the 1874 Fighting Fund is going to be an organisation similar to HYDC, except in this case its about providing funds for the club as a whole rather than focusing on just the youth side. So in the way that from HYDC funds they were able to for example sign Kevin McHattie from Dunfermline or fund equipment for the academy, the 1874 Fighting Fund could provide funds for the manager to help sign a player or for equipment to help develop the club off and on the pitch. Am I correct?

 

No, we have no intention of trying to compete with the great work currently done by HYDC.

 

Our monies are far more likely to be used for far more mundane (though no less important) issues such as facilities and maintainence work. Of course the more money we can raise, the more we can help the Club, and hopefully that lets them free up more of their budget for the football side.

[Guest C00l K1d]

Would it not make more sense to work together with the FOH group?

 

What is the point in raising money to give to our current owners, it's only delaying the inevitable whereas suppporting a group like FOH could help make the process of a buyout quicker.

 

I think it's a good idea don't get me wrong but i don't think we are a sizeable enough club to have lots of different groups trying to achieve the same thing.

 

I also think it's a cracking idea that you can donate, without having to sign up to a membership..

 

Good luck i hope it goes well

 

 

EDIT: when i say ''trying to achieve the same thing'' i know you're not trying to buy the club, but i think these groups need to work together as a whole

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Do AFC Wimbeldon not have a cple of other groups which help supplement income as well as being fan owned? Works for them!?!?

 

I/m not aware of that, but we will look into it, thanks for the suggestion.

[HMS Jambo]

Would it not make more sense to work together with the FOH group?

 

What is the point in raising money to give to our current owners, it's only delaying the inevitable whereas suppporting a group like FOH could help make the process of a buyout quicker.

 

I think it's a good idea don't get me wrong but i don't think we are a sizeable enough club to have lots of different groups trying to achieve the same thing.

 

I also think it's a cracking idea that you can donate, without having to sign up to a membership..

 

Good luck i hope it goes well

 

 

EDIT: when i say ''trying to achieve the same thing'' i know you're not trying to buy the club, but i think these groups need to work together as a whole

 

I think an additional fund to perhaps help pay any fines/bills the club may occur during the next few weeks/months, will allow the FoH to focus all it's efforts on buying the club.

 

I'm sure Rangers had the same sort of thing last year which payed a lot of the legal fees.

[J.C 7]

 

 

I/m not aware of that, but we will look into it, thanks for the suggestion.

 

Sure i read it on here when one of their board/chairman whoever it was posted on here.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Would it not make more sense to work together with the FOH group?

 

 

We do not think it is appropriate to align ourselves with any owner, or potential owner, as our objective is purely to raise funds for HMFC regardless of who the custodian is at any given time. With specific regard to FOH, please also see post 3 on this thread.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

 

What is the point in raising money to give to our current owners, it's only delaying the inevitable whereas suppporting a group like FOH could help make the process of a buyout quicker.

 

 

Sorry, managed to cut this out.

 

We are not giving money to any owners, be they current, or any potential future owners.

 

Our money will go directly to the Club to pay for specific pre-agreed work.

 

We will not be involved as a group in raising funds for any proposed new owne.

[jamboinglasgow]

No, we have no intention of trying to compete with the great work currently done by HYDC.

 

Our monies are far more likely to be used for far more mundane (though no less important) issues such as facilities and maintainence work. Of course the more money we can raise, the more we can help the Club, and hopefully that lets them free up more of their budget for the football side.

 

Thanks for the reply, I wasn't trying to suggest you were competing with HYDC, just more terms of how the organisation is set up and works is similar (fund raising main provider of income but also welcome to donations, and then putting back into club for what the club needs.)

 

It does sound a good idea to have a fund that allows that, if it was done in partnership with FoH (though as you say it is on offer to any new owner) then having the monthly money from fans pledges go to be stored up for large investment projects at the club, having yourselves provide the additional capital for smaller projects and maintance, as you say frees up the other income from the club (matchday revenue, season tickets, tv revenue etc) to be focused on the playing side.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Sure i read it on here when one of their board/chairman whoever it was posted on here.

 

Thanks

[Guest C00l K1d]

Sorry, managed to cut this out.

 

We are not giving money to any owners, be they current, or any potential future owners.

 

Our money will go directly to the Club to pay for specific pre-agreed work.

 

We will not be involved as a group in raising funds for any proposed new owne.

Thanks for the reply, that makes more sense now.

 

Say for arguments sake the FF pays for a new training pitch. Does that pitch become part of Hearts' property, or do FF own a share of it?

[Gregory House M.D.]

It's almost as if Gary and his cohorts want the club to die.

 

Twice now they have released statements asking for backing when people are being asked for money to save/buy the club.

[McCrae]

What safe guards are in place to monitor and report that money raised by the fund is fully accounted for?

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Thanks for the reply, that makes more sense now.

 

Say for arguments sake the FF pays for a new training pitch. Does that pitch become part of Hearts' property, or do FF own a share of it?

 

We'd love to have the money to make a purchase like that, but we are not wanting to be an owner of anything.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

It's almost as if Gary and his cohorts want the club to die.

 

Twice now they have released statements asking for backing when people are being asked for money to save/buy the club.

 

1874 Fighting Fund have not released any other statements, and if the Club were ever in the position that they were not looking for money, no one would be more happy than us.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

What safe guards are in place to monitor and report that money raised by the fund is fully accounted for?

 

This is covered in some detail in posts 2 & 3, and the Trustees have a legal obligation as well.

 

If the information there does not cover your concerns, please post another question.

[Gregory House M.D.]

 

 

 

1874 Fighting Fund have not released any other statements, and if the Club were ever in the position that they were not looking for money, no one would be more happy than us.

 

When did Gary Mackay announce the formation of this fund? Yep, bang in the middle of a cash crisis where despite this funds distraction the fans raised ?1.1m.

 

Sorry but everything about this fund has been ill-timed in the extreme.

[The Don]

Whilst I think it's great so many people are capable and willing to use their time and expertise at helping the club and hopefully safeguard its future, I cant help but feel the fans are being taken for granted. At a time when there is so much unemployment and job uncertainty I feel it may be too much to keep asking fans to contribute. Not everyone can afford to keep putting money into various schemes, especially at this time of year as well where people have already are looking to purchase season tickets (Which is money for the club) also it is approaching holiday season where many people have holidays booked or looking at holidays to book. We are not Rangers or Celtic, we do not have anywhere near the fan base they have, I think it is too much to ask the oridinary fan to keep shelling out money.

 

How many other splinter groups are going to keep popping up asking fans for money?

 

What is needed is ONE group of people, 1874FF has mentioned lawyers etc are involved, FOH have business people involved, all these people should be using their talents TOGETHER to form some kind of joint plan and a way forward and then pass this information onto the fans. At present FOH have done nothing except ask for pledges on the back of a "Chancers" offer, these people are supposed to be extremely wealthy if reports are to be believed yet not one of them has said they will put their hands in their pockets. It strikes me as a power struggle to be "Top Dog"

 

Another side to this is those fans that cannot afford to put money in are then ridiculed or made to feel inferior by others, this is no more evident than on these very boards within the "uber" fan brigade.

[ToadKiller Dog]

It's right that a purely fund raising group is seperate from any potential buyer .

I support them in this , I don't think it dilutes anything .

[1874 Fighting Fund]

When did Gary Mackay announce the formation of this fund? Yep, bang in the middle of a cash crisis where despite this funds distraction the fans raised ?1.1m.

 

Sorry but everything about this fund has been ill-timed in the extreme.

 

Sorry that you feel that way

[way out west jambo]

What is it you have in mind regarding specialist skills, building trade and builder merchants?

[Gambo]

Did not like the original timing of them announcing themselves , but to be fair to them they seem to have went into the backgroung and got themselves sorted.

 

Happy to contribute to them if it means helping the club, in its times of need, now and in the future, whoever is in control.

 

[Gambo]

It's right that a purely fund raising group is seperate from any potential buyer .

I support them in this , I don't think it dilutes anything .

 

I agree with above.

[kingantti1874]

What is it you have in mind regarding specialist skills, building trade and builder merchants?

 

? Don't understand this at all... Seems like a group who's hearts are in the right place simply trying to get themselves into a position to donate to the club in the future... Given many seem unconvinced by the foundation objectives looks like a good alternative to me..

 

Well done guys

[blondejamtart]

I think that's an important point there - the 1874FF is intended to be in it for the long run - whoever ends up owning and running the club. It is not in competition with any group aiming to take over the running of work. The idea is to set up something for the long term, not just the immediate future.

[Gambo]

What is it you have in mind regarding specialist skills, building trade and builder merchants?

 

In our hour(s)of need, it makes sense to ask if any Hearts fan can do some voluntry work for the club.......painting, cleaning, Joinery work, sparking, plumbing etc etc etc, yes it may hurt some contractors who do the work just now but we have to look at ways to save money.

[way out west jambo]

 

 

? Don't understand this at all... Seems like a group who's hearts are in the right place simply trying to get themselves into a position to donate to the club in the future... Given many seem unconvinced by the foundation objectives looks like a good alternative to me..

 

Well done guys

 

Take it easy mate eh? They're asking about it in the above posts, im in that game, trying to see if I can help.

[HEARTS FOREVER]

The 1874 fighting fund seem to pop up at the daftest of times.

 

 

Crazy really

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Whilst I think it's great so many people are capable and willing to use their time and expertise at helping the club and hopefully safeguard its future, I cant help but feel the fans are being taken for granted. At a time when there is so much unemployment and job uncertainty I feel it may be too much to keep asking fans to contribute. Not everyone can afford to keep putting money into various schemes, especially at this time of year as well where people have already are looking to purchase season tickets (Which is money for the club) also it is approaching holiday season where many people have holidays booked or looking at holidays to book. We are not Rangers or Celtic, we do not have anywhere near the fan base they have, I think it is too much to ask the oridinary fan to keep shelling out money.

 

How many other splinter groups are going to keep popping up asking fans for money?

 

What is needed is ONE group of people, 1874FF has mentioned lawyers etc are involved, FOH have business people involved, all these people should be using their talents TOGETHER to form some kind of joint plan and a way forward and then pass this information onto the fans. At present FOH have done nothing except ask for pledges on the back of a "Chancers" offer, these people are supposed to be extremely wealthy if reports are to be believed yet not one of them has said they will put their hands in their pockets. It strikes me as a power struggle to be "Top Dog"

 

Another side to this is those fans that cannot afford to put money in are then ridiculed or made to feel inferior by others, this is no more evident than on these very boards within the "uber" fan brigade.

 

As fans ourselves we are only too well aware of the various demands being made on our finances, but we are not looking to own the Club, so we do not feel it appropriate to align ourselves to any owner,or potential owner.

 

I do not think it appropriate for us to comment on specifics regarding any other group.

 

While we will be delighted to receive any donation, no matter how large or small, and all donations will be strictly confidential, so no one will know whether someone has backed us or not, never mind by how much. We will not be ridiculing anyone.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Sorry, but at the moment my chief concern is whether the club will still be in existence in the short term at this moment in time, not funding a long term project which this undoubtedly is.

Until I find out exactly what is happening with regards ownership and the debt then I won't be committing money to anything.

 

As for 2 or 3 different organisation's asking for money, that's just barmy as far as I'm concerned and extremely short sighted.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

It's right that a purely fund raising group is seperate from any potential buyer .

I support them in this , I don't think it dilutes anything .

 

Thank you, thats how we feel as well.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

What is it you have in mind regarding specialist skills, building trade and builder merchants?

 

One of the ways we thought that we may be able to assist the club was in procuring materials, or skilled labour, at reduced prices. If you feel you may be able to help, please PM this account with your details, and someone will contact you to discuss it with you directly.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Did not like the original timing of them announcing themselves , but to be fair to them they seem to have went into the backgroung and got themselves sorted.

 

Happy to contribute to them if it means helping the club, in its times of need, now and in the future, whoever is in control.

 

Thank you for your support

[1874 Fighting Fund]

Sorry, but at the moment my chief concern is whether the club will still be in existence in the short term at this moment in time, not funding a long term project which this undoubtedly is.

Until I find out exactly what is happening with regards ownership and the debt then I won't be committing money to anything.

 

As for 2 or 3 different organisation's asking for money, that's just barmy as far as I'm concerned and extremely short sighted.

 

We share your concerns about the Club, but rather than wait until decisions are made over ownership etc, we felt it better to start to raise money to assist the Club now, and into the future.

[1874 Fighting Fund]

In our hour(s)of need, it makes sense to ask if any Hearts fan can do some voluntry work for the club.......painting, cleaning, Joinery work, sparking, plumbing etc etc etc, yes it may hurt some contractors who do the work just now but we have to look at ways to save money.

 

We feel that anything like this can only benefit HMFC, by going some (small) way to reducing the Clubs non-footballing overheads.

[N User]

 

No, we have no intention of trying to compete with the great work currently done by HYDC.

 

Our monies are far more likely to be used for far more mundane (though no less important) issues such as facilities and maintainence work. Of course the more money we can raise, the more we can help the Club, and hopefully that lets them free up more of their budget for the football side.

 

I like this.

 

If it does get worse for HMFC, then the day to day staff would be the worst hit.