221 replies to this topic

[Skacel51]

http://www.dailymail...o=feeds-newsxml

[Floyd]

jamiej29, on 20 February 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

http://www.dailymail...o=feeds-newsxml

Magnificent news!!!

Deserves a

Edited by Floyd, 20 February 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[Mario LADotelli]

As Craig Whyte circles the pan...

THE FLUSH IS COMING!

[jack D and coke]

Why on earth would he do this though? I just don't get it.

[brox_jambo]

Brilliant news, being uncovered as the crook and con man he really is! My best mate is a Gers fan too which just makes it all the better

[Johanes de Silentio]

Craig Whyte sold off four years of Rangers season tickets — one month before he bought the club.

[rantnrave]

I Dont think you will see CW Again   at Ibrox

[Ted]

"It is widely assumed he will never attend another game at Ibrox and there are now questions marks over that ‘preferred creditor’ status."

Most important part of the story (i think?).

[graygo]

Wow!!  Just WOW!!  This just gets better and better.  

[Denny Crane]

I'd never thought I'd see a bigger wide-o than Tom Hicks. Think I have now!

[Governor Tarkin]

Every day is like Christmas at the moment. Fantastic stuff.

[The Kdogg]

Is this not what the Glazers did to buy Man U? He's not been honest about it but is there anything that makes this legally wrong?

[c41rns]

So hearts to sign a striker and rangers to announce first redundancies on Tuesday !!! More great timing from Vlad!!!

[jamboinglasgow]

jack D and coke, on 20 February 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Why on earth would he do this though? I just don't get it.

He wants to take over the club. Murray says he will sell provided Whyte proves he has enough of his own money to pay the debt off. Whyte goes to Ticketus and says I am about to buy Rangers, if I can arrange 100,000 tickets sold to you over 4 years can you give me the money upfront, if I dont manage to buy Rangers you can get your money back in full. He gets the money, puts it in his lawyers account, Lawyer goes to Murray, shows him the money, Murray thinks its Whytes own money, agrees to the deal. Whyte takes over uses the Ticketus money to pay off Lloyds debt so they go off and Whyte now owns the club. So basically Whyte did it so he could buy the club (by getting Murray to agree to sell and pay off Lloyds debt) without spending his own money. The clever thing it seems for Whyte is what he has done is legal.

The question though has to be, why has Whyte bought Rangers?

[c41rns]

jamboinglasgow, on 21 February 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

He wants to take over the club. Murray says he will sell provided Whyte proves he has enough of his own money to pay the debt off. Whyte goes to Ticketus and says I am about to buy Rangers, if I can arrange 100,000 tickets sold to you over 4 years can you give me the money upfront, if I dont manage to buy Rangers you can get your money back in full. He gets the money, puts it in his lawyers account, Lawyer goes to Murray, shows him the money, Murray thinks its Whytes own money, agrees to the deal. Whyte takes over uses the Ticketus money to pay off Lloyds debt so they go off and Whyte now owns the club. So basically Whyte did it so he could buy the club (by getting Murray to agree to sell and pay off Lloyds debt) without spending his own money. The clever thing it seems for Whyte is what he has done is legal.

The question though has to be, why has Whyte bought Rangers?

He seems to have pocketed 6m?

[david mcgee]

jamboinglasgow, on 21 February 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

He wants to take over the club. Murray says he will sell provided Whyte proves he has enough of his own money to pay the debt off. Whyte goes to Ticketus and says I am about to buy Rangers, if I can arrange 100,000 tickets sold to you over 4 years can you give me the money upfront, if I dont manage to buy Rangers you can get your money back in full. He gets the money, puts it in his lawyers account, Lawyer goes to Murray, shows him the money, Murray thinks its Whytes own money, agrees to the deal. Whyte takes over uses the Ticketus money to pay off Lloyds debt so they go off and Whyte now owns the club. So basically Whyte did it so he could buy the club (by getting Murray to agree to sell and pay off Lloyds debt) without spending his own money. The clever thing it seems for Whyte is what he has done is legal.

The question though has to be, why has Whyte bought Rangers?

Presumably because he has spent £1 of his own money.

He is now the preferred creditor and has rights to the ground and Murray Park, presumably he could sell them off, or probably more likely sell on the club to the next idiot.

He can then do a disappearing act with suitcases full of loot and go live with Lord Lucan.

Or if his plan has flaws he will spend many years in jail, be rogered by all the huns in the nick or wake up deed.

[Gregg Wallace]

What a con man!  

[Gregg Wallace]

david mcgee, on 21 February 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

Presumably because he has spent £1 of his own money.

He is now the preferred creditor and has rights to the ground and Murray Park, presumably he could sell them off, or probably more likely sell on the club to the next idiot.

He can then do a disappearing act with suitcases full of loot and go live with Lord Lucan.

Or if his plan has flaws he will spend many years in jail, be rogered by all the huns in the nick or wake up deed.

Hold on a minute...How can you wake up dead?

[johnking123]

jollyjambo1874, on 21 February 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

Hold on a minute...How can you wake up dead?

To many zombie films I would say

[Peebo]

This guy is a Tim, right?

[Gregg Wallace]

Peebo, on 21 February 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

This guy is a Tim, right?

He must be, surely!

Edited by jollyjambo1874, 21 February 2012 - 12:58 AM.

[Marty-man]

david mcgee, on 21 February 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

Presumably because he has spent £1 of his own money.

He is now the preferred creditor and has rights to the ground and Murray Park, presumably he could sell them off, or probably more likely sell on the club to the next idiot.

He can then do a disappearing act with suitcases full of loot and go live with Lord Lucan.

Or if his plan has flaws he will spend many years in jail, be rogered by all the huns in the nick or wake up deed.

aaah, but is he the Preferred Creditor? It looks like he isn't actually owed any money ..... ok, maybe a quid  

Ticketus are becoming big players in this, and it looks like they could end up holdingthe deeds to Ibrox and Murray Park

[the jambo poet]

wow that is some reading.....absolutely mind-boggling stuff...I think he will have to hide far far away lol

[adayinmay]

jamiej29, on 20 February 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

http://www.dailymail...o=feeds-newsxml

!

I'm not sure where that leaves Rankgers.
Has he done anything illegal?
Has he broken any rules?
He proved he had the money to pay off the debt.
The only mistake (and that mistake isn't a wrong doing or indeed illegal) is that Sir David Murray was foolish enough to sanction the sale.
That's entirely Rankgers fault. No-one else's.
Ticketus could be accused of being stupid in believing that there would be a Rankgers still in existence for them to re-coup their money.
Where does this leave Rankgers? Hoping the Ticketus deal wasn't binding to them I suppose.
All this however is irrelevant as the BIG tax case soon to be served will render everything so far as tiny and insignificant.
Ha ha ha ha.
Apocalypse. Not an end, but a new beginning. For Scottish Football that is

Edited by adayinmay, 21 February 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[Boab Mugabe]

You won't find Mr Romanov being a dodgy sort like Craig Whyte.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

adayinmay, on 21 February 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

I'm not sure where that leaves Rankgers.

Means that RFC are stuffed for season ticket income!

adayinmay, on 21 February 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Has he done anything illegal?

Probably not, unless it broke a condition of sale

adayinmay, on 21 February 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Has he broken any rules?

No footballing rules

adayinmay, on 21 February 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

He proved he had the money to pay off the debt.
The only mistake (and that mistake isn't a wrong doing or indeed illegal) is that Sir David Murray was foolish enough to sanction the sale.
That's entirely Rankgers fault. No-one else's.

More likely Lloyd's pushed the sale through to get out of Dodge while they club with their funds intact

adayinmay, on 21 February 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Ticketus could be accused of being stupid in believing that there would be a Rankgers still in existence for them to re-coup their money.

This is the next question though. Do Ticketus actually have the secured creditor status that Whyte allegedly has?

adayinmay, on 21 February 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Where does this leave Rankgers? Hoping the Ticketus deal wasn't binding to them I suppose.

Goosed basically!

adayinmay, on 21 February 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

All this however is irrelevant as the BIG tax case soon to be served will render everything so far as tiny and insignificant.
Ha ha ha ha.
Apocalypse. Not an end, but a new beginning. For Scottish Football that is

As long as the useless butchers, bakers and candlestick makers in charge of most Scottish clubs find their cojones and make them start again in Division 3.

[Redhilljambo]

What's the best / worst possible case scenarios?

[Gregg Wallace]

So, really the club won't be getting any income from season ticket sales for the next 4 years am I right? If they cease to exist that is.

[Smack]

jack D and coke, on 20 February 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Why on earth would he do this though? I just don't get it.

That's what I dont understand. Surely he couldn't just legally pocket the Jelavic money and walk away. What's in it for him then? Does this lend credence to the theory that he is somebody else's stooge/frontman?

[wibble]

I have said all along that liquidation has always been Whytes one and only plan.
He sees an opportunity to sell a debt free newco for 50 million when he paid a pound for it. He will syphon off anything he can from the oldco before pulling the rug.
He knows there are big risks, but he also knows he can walk away with 50 or 60 million quid.
My gut feel is that he's bitten off more than he can chew and that either the orcs will kill him, Ticketus will have him killed, he will go to jail (and be killed), or HMRC will render the newco out of bounds and he'll have to asset strip the land to get some profit. Then he'll definitely get moidered.
It's all good if you ask me.

[Smack]

wibble, on 21 February 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

I have said all along that liquidation has always been Whytes one and only plan.
He sees an opportunity to sell a debt free newco for 50 million when he paid a pound for it. He will syphon off anything he can from the oldco before pulling the rug.
He knows there are big risks, but he also knows he can walk away with 50 or 60 million quid.
My gut feel is that he's bitten off more than he can chew and that either the orcs will kill him, Ticketus will have him killed, he will go to jail (and be killed), or HMRC will render the newco out of bounds and he'll have to asset strip the land to get some profit. Then he'll definitely get moidered.
It's all good if you ask me.

But he's not daft (is he?). Surely he recognised the risk of getting anally pumped in jail or murdered by a hun before he went into this whole shabbang. There must be something in it for him.

[DETTY29]

jollyjambo1874, on 21 February 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

So, really the club won't be getting any income from season ticket sales for the next 4 years am I right? If they cease to exist that is.

Lack of ticket money income will be compensated by the profit they make by the soaring transfer values of the 3 players given bumper contract increases in the summer.

[superwaynefoster]

Stevietits, on 21 February 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

But he's not daft (is he?). Surely he recognised the risk of getting anally pumped in jail or murdered by a hun before he went into this whole shabbang. There must be something in it for him.

I personally think he.completely underestimated the Rangers support. He also underestimated just how messed rangers were.

[Heartbeat]

I am fast losing track of this so can someone recap, my understanding to date

Whyte Paid a £ and took on 18m worth of debt
Whyte got the money to prove to SDM from Ticketus (24m) for advanced STs
Nobody know where the other 6m is yet
Rancers under Whyte paid HMRC ziltch to the tune of £9m hence Admin
The "big" tax case isnt settled and is £49m possibly rising to 75M
They have several very highly paid players under contract continuing to receive wages.
They got a ten point deduction in the SPL
Whyte used all the money unpaid to HMRC for day to day running of club.


Possibly loads more but I find it hard to believe there is nothing illegal in all that? witholding NI and PAYE where it is clear you have made deductions and its due?

Raising funds in advance of sales for the purpose of buying something using an assett of something you dont actually own ?

He is either a genius and thought all this through and has kept legally onside at all times or off his feking trolley.
I just cant see the terrorist luvin element of the hun hordes sitting idley by while he takes the pash like this. I hope there is a place on earth he has discovered that nobody else knows about cos I see only one conclusion with this. We are talking about people beat family,stab friends and generally aint very nice when they lose a game. So what they would do to this loony doesnt bear thinking about.

I just cant see any way out other than has been already suggested i.e liquidated no more old co, come on in newco and find a buyer who wants to move forward, big issue is if the HMRC win hands down on all counts they will no go away quietly. They are Donald Ducked  


Wonder wot wee Tattoo does these days cos I can see Whyte living his remaining years on Fantasy island far from the world as he knows it.

EDIT: I wouldnt underestimate the sheer magnitude of this vile organisation worldwide though. Just for example if the rallying call to all Rancers supporters to pledge say £100 was made then say 250,000 contributed and there possibly many more o the feckers then thats £25m just like that. Who do they trust to hold the cash though? is that not part of the proposal this Paul Murray is suggesting very loosely

Edited by Heartbeat, 21 February 2012 - 07:07 AM.

[syndicalist]

The issue now is what ticketus get in return. I'll wager its the stadium. If so Rangers might as well close now.

[Jambof3tornado]

Pleasing news indeed but it was obvious very early on that whyte didn't have a bean of his own to invest!

The man is a compulsive liar. Glad he passed the fit and proper person test with flying colours!

[Heartbeat]

syndicalist, on 21 February 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

The issue now is what ticketus get in return. I'll wager its the stadium. If so Rangers might as well close now.

Murray Park? whats that worth?
In any event an organisation like that wont hand over 24m unsecured and Whyte wont have anything of his secured against it even if he had that type of equity. No you are right it has to be from whatever prize possesions Rancers have and Ibroke and Muddy park must be the biggies.

Just thought of something else. Is the main red brick stand at Ibroke not listed? so potentially they could go breast up and any developer would have to retain the old main fasade of the stand? Personally I would go for Asda. Imagine all these Rancers fans having to pass the old stadium that still looks like the old stadium from the outside but with the green and white Logo of Asda flying high. Look at the fuss they kicked up in Larkhall (allegedly) where Asda changed to Blue to avaoid getting everything leathered every night  

Edited by Heartbeat, 21 February 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[teepee]

syndicalist, on 21 February 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

The issue now is what ticketus get in return. I'll wager its the stadium. If so Rangers might as well close now.

Not sure how it would work but I agree the only thing of value to guarantee a loan of that amount would be the ground but how could he give the guarantee he was never in a position prior to do so before he handed his pound over and even after that he would have had to go through the board to put up such collateral - the whole thing dosent make sense.

[Dexter]

I'd have thought Ticketus' solicitors would have told the Administrators exactly *what* the 24.4 was secured on.

[world_3]

Heartbeat, on 21 February 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

Murray Park? whats that worth?
In any event an organisation like that wont hand over 24m unsecured and Whyte wont have anything of his secured against it even if he had that type of equity. No you are right it has to be from whatever prize possesions Rancers have and Ibroke and Muddy park must be the biggies.

Just thought of something else. Is the main red brick stand at Ibroke not listed? so potentially they could go breast up and any developer would have to retain the old main fasade of the stand? Personally I would go for Asda. Imagine all these Rancers fans having to pass the old stadium that still looks like the old stadium from the outside but with the green and white Logo of Asda flying high. Look at the fuss they kicked up in Larkhall (allegedly) where Asda changed to Blue to avaoid getting everything leathered every night  

Murray Park's worth next to nothing.  Can't build on the land.

[Drewjambobusby]

Staggering revelations. They really are in deep poo, and i am sure that sooner or later we will hear about Whyte being found in a ditch !!!!

On a side note. See the article, on the Daily Mail link, of the weedgie filth celebrating at Easter Road. They really are detestable filth.

I think we should all be worried by this. If Rangers go down, we will all be affected. Forget attendance revenue. The Sky/ESPN revenue will almost certainly be pulled, which will affect us all. Of course The unwashed would be most affected, making their over the top celebrations even more stupid.

Personally, i have no desire to see RFC go to the wall. Purely RFC with no money, and unable to buy league titles etc would do for me. More of a level playing field. That would do.

[Tams bird]

Is there anything that man wouldnt do...

[harrykim]

Redhilljambo, on 21 February 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

What's the best / worst possible case scenarios?

Best = rankgers liquidated with no phoenix club in the top (or any..) tier of Scottish football.
Worst = SWhyte alone prosecuted and bluenosed bigots remain.

[Gambo]

Lets not forget also that as part of Craig Whytes bid team at the takeover, the administrators were probabably party to this 'deal'.

[Heartbeat]

Tams bird, on 21 February 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

Is there anything that man wouldnt do...

Reading the words of his ex father in Law in the Sundays it doesnt appear so.

"the man doesnt know the meaning of the word honesty" was among his comments

[McCrae]

The money is secured against season tickets over a 4 year period.

The deal will probably be that Rangers buy the tickets back at a higher price each year.  This fee will be equal to the Interest rate Rangers would need to pay if they had borrowed the money.

This deal by itself won't kill Rangers ... It's only £6-8 million a year they need to pay back.  

I have heard that Rangers own more than a 100 houses in Glasgow. All bought to house players.  Looks like they will all be sold.

Initially I thought Rangers were toast, but not so sure now.

[Deevers]

Gambo, on 21 February 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Lets not forget also that as part of Craig Whytes bid team at the takeover, the administrators were probabably party to this 'deal'.

   This is what I don't really get - why would creditors like HMRC be quite happy with these Administrators given their previous history with Whyte.   This is surely something worthy of investigation.  Even if they are doing their jobs quite properly, there will always be the suspicion in certain quarters that they were looking after Craig Whytes interests rather than those of the other creditors.

This whole story has got a long way to go and there will be other revalations along the road with all of this.

[Bozi]

I have thought since day 1 that Whyte is a stooge,put in place so that David Murray doesn't have to get his hands dirty and liquidise Rangers.
Whyte becomes hated,but rich. Rangers and the media get a fall guy. Rangers squirm their way out of all the debt and then Murray reappears as a white knight

[Heartbeat]

McCrae, on 21 February 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

The money is secured against season tickets over a 4 year period.

The deal will probably be that Rangers buy the tickets back at a higher price each year.  This fee will be equal to the Interest rate Rangers would need to pay if they had borrowed the money.

This deal by itself won't kill Rangers ... It's only £6-8 million a year they need to pay back.  

I have heard that Rangers own more than a 100 houses in Glasgow. All bought to house players.  Looks like they will all be sold.

Initially I thought Rangers were toast, but not so sure now.

Obviously an asset but its bloody hard enough selling a house in the current market never mind 100. Also although no idea of locations and values would guess most are flats so even at an average of say 150k there is only £15m in that and if they wanted to sell the entire portfolio to say an investor they would seek a deal. Undoubtably anything they have to sell is an advantage, to whom though? with the extent of the problems that seems just a drop in the ocean and maybe just help the creditors divs.

They must have went down that route for a reason maybe high hotel costs etc so they would then inherit that cost if they punted all there properties and many maybe now with sitting tenants

[Craigieboy]

The gift that just keeps giving.

Edited by Craigieboy, 21 February 2012 - 08:02 AM.