The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I might be inclined to go after the individuals such as David Murray and Campbell Ogilvie or whoever administered the scheme.

 

But I do believe the individuals are responsible. 

Yes and Hector will, but with 5WA  could they force Rangers the current buns, sorry ones to accept liability as that is a football contract, that had no sporting advantage remember but IS footballing debt,  My question is will any player at least test that theory?????

[Hagar the Horrible]

For some of the players if not all, then their wages which were converted to keep tax down now transpires to be that the TAX and the interest on that unpaid tax is now greater than any money earned?  if they paid tax in the first instance they might still have a bed to sleep in at Christmas.

 

Will SDM be on the xmas card list?

[tntjambo]

4 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

For some of the players if not all, then their wages which were converted to keep tax down now transpires to be that the TAX and the interest on that unpaid tax is now greater than any money earned?  if they paid tax in the first instance they might still have a bed to sleep in at Christmas.

 

Will SDM be on the xmas card list?

 

 Minty thought he had dumped the BTC When Craigy Boy flicked him the quid Minty knew what was going to happen yet he never gets mentioned in the blame game.

[NANOJAMBO]

9 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Yes and Hector will, but with 5WA  could they force Rangers the current buns, sorry ones to accept liability as that is a football contract, that had no sporting advantage remember but IS footballing debt,  My question is will any player at least test that theory?????

Only if they have a death wish. 

[NANOJAMBO]

3 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Rangers RIP could promise anything they like but it doesn't make it legal.

It may be down to a matter of semantics but agreeing to pay tax on their behalf and indemnifying them against a tax bill are not the same in law.

The liability for the tax bill in this case rests firstly and firmly with the employer and if that fails, then with the employee who received the benefit.  No words in a contract change that.

If the employee feels aggrieved about losing out then he can sue the employer, or whoever, if he feels he has been misled but he will have the same luck getting money out of Oldco as HMRC had.

That's my view for what it's worth.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying it's legal.  I know where the liability rests - i used to work for HMRC. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

LOL Why would you take tax planning advice from a lawyer (let alone a dodgy one) rather an accountant?  I've got both qualifications and my legal training taught me sod all about taxes...

 

Though you do wonder what Rangers auditors were up to for all those years...They must've been just doing year on year reviews for the wages costs and no substantive work at all, but then how could they fail to see  Flo's amount of £700k leaving the bank without questioning it? It is a round figure and a large one - surely it was anomalous? It would've stuck out like a sore thumb even to a second year trainee...

 

Because there are Lawyers who specialise in this area! 

[JamboAl]

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You're missing my point. I'm not saying it's legal.  I know where the liability rests - i used to work for HMRC. 

Well you'll know that you can't get blood from a stone.  That company does not exist.

 

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Because there are Lawyers who specialise in this area! 

I direct you to his biog on wiki, total shyster...

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

I direct you to his biog on wiki, total shyster...

 

I'm not suggesting he is anything other than a shyster but there are many many excellent Tax and Financial planning lawyers in Scotland. Your post suggested otherwise.

[Mikey1874]

35 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Yes and Hector will, but with 5WA  could they force Rangers the current buns, sorry ones to accept liability as that is a football contract, that had no sporting advantage remember but IS footballing debt,  My question is will any player at least test that theory?????

 

History has shown it is worth testing anything. Would be an interesting case. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Romanov Stole My Pension said:

 

Could they sue the club rather than the "holding company" or whatever nonsense they call it.

They would go for the employer which should be a question of fact.  The employer is usually whoever hired and paid them but in these murky waters, who knows.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by JamboAl

[132goals1958]

1 hour ago, The Gasman said:

 

I think that’s likely exactly the position the Auditors would’ve taken - they wouldn’t want to know any more than that - plausible deniability.

 

On a wider point the Company would have had to disclose in their Corporation Tax Return (which they have to submit whether or not they make a profit )  a statement they were operating a tax avoidance scheme together with details. The auditors should have been meticulous in ensuring the full details were provided. Whether they were aware of the side letters is anyone,s guess but it seems strange that HMRC did not clamp down on the scheme much earlier than they did. It astonishes me that the legislative interpretation dragged on far what seemed an age in determining that the payments were subject to PAYE and both Employer and Employee National Insurance.

[Pans Jambo]

4 hours ago, The Gasman said:

 

Yes, despite all the folk getting all exited about the NewCo being “The” Rangers, the OldCo was as well.

Pretentious self absorbed arseholes.

 

The The Rangers are even worse. 

[PeterintheRain]

5 hours ago, The Gasman said:

 

Yes, despite all the folk getting all exited about the NewCo being “The” Rangers, the OldCo was as well.

 

The Glasgow Rangers Association Football Club.

[john brownlee]

Paying tax is your responsibility , it's in your hands. You must pay the current tax whether you like or not.

i fell into the trap that I thought my employer was responsible of passing on the monies I was due i.e. Monthly wage.unfortutly I had a decent bank account, my mistake was only checking it monthly. As I was PAYE I thought to my regret it was all taken care of.

because he defaulted I was left with the bill, even though I thought I had already paid as the money had been taken out of my bank account. Paying twice doesn't come into it.

anyway it was a lesson we'll learn. 

Believe it or not when I became a registered company I actually managed to claim it all back.......swings an roundabouts

life's a bitch but hey.

[1971fozzy]

I see in sky sports news they are about to spunk £2m on another player.

” Eros Grezda from Osijek in a £2million deal. Grezda, the Albania winger, has been in talks with the Gers over becoming Steven Gerrard’s 13th signing of the summer, with the Ibrox outfit looking to replace Jamie Murphy after injury ruled him out for the remainder of the season. “

 

All the more more reason to want them emptied tonight

[RobNox]

4 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

I see in sky sports news they are about to spunk £2m on another player.

” Eros Grezda from Osijek in a £2million deal. Grezda, the Albania winger, has been in talks with the Gers over becoming Steven Gerrard’s 13th signing of the summer, with the Ibrox outfit looking to replace Jamie Murphy after injury ruled him out for the remainder of the season. “

 

All the more more reason to want them emptied tonight

 

Will £2m deal mean a £2m transfer fee, or as is often the case with Rangers, will it include his wages over the lifetime of the deal?

 

No doubt if the deal goes through it will be for an undisclosed fee, but Rangers fans will believe they paid a fee of £2m for the player.  

[Footballfirst]

Will they be able to get a work permit for him? (rhetorical question)

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Will they be able to get a work permit for him? (rhetorical question)

Of course they will.

It's Rangers.

[RobNox]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Of course they will.

It's Rangers.

 

You just answered a rhetorical question

 

[Spellczech]

8 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

I see in sky sports news they are about to spunk £2m on another player.

” Eros Grezda from Osijek in a £2million deal. Grezda, the Albania winger, has been in talks with the Gers over becoming Steven Gerrard’s 13th signing of the summer, with the Ibrox outfit looking to replace Jamie Murphy after injury ruled him out for the remainder of the season. “

 

All the more more reason to want them emptied tonight

Would tend to indicate that the DOF doesn't have much of a scouting network established outside UK. Seems that Russian club they play tonight which is also 6 years old, are in the same position.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Just read that Ufa they team they play tonight, were formed in 2011, a whole year older?  Sevco's late arrival in Russia was planned apparently?  must be the days that easyjet fly?

[Mysterion]

5 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

 Sevco's late arrival in Russia was planned apparently?  must be the days that easyjet fly?

 

Picture doing the rounds of players on a British Airways flight flying Business Class.

 

Delightfully expensive... reducing/eating into any money they have made so far paying for that. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Picture doing the rounds of players on a British Airways flight flying Business Class.

 

Delightfully expensive... reducing/eating into any money they have made so far paying for that. 

I am glad their are back to being over indulgent

[Spellczech]

16 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I'm not suggesting he is anything other than a shyster but there are many many excellent Tax and Financial planning lawyers in Scotland. Your post suggested otherwise.

I take it you mean re Inheritance & Capital Gains taxes, rather than Income tax and NIC? As I said above (perhaps not clearly though) it was those taxes that EBTs were intended to avoid...not employment taxes

Edited August 30, 2018 by Spellczech

[brunoatemyhamster]

Whats happening at the GM then ? 

[The Gasman]

7 hours ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

Whats happening at the GM then ? 

 

Seems to have been rather boring and predictable to be honest....

 

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16611235.rangers-shareholder-probes-ibrox-secretary-at-general-meeting/

[Footballfirst]

The Concert Party + Club 1872 + Borita (Julian Wolhardt) account for 40,108,784 of the shares currently in issue.

[Don Dan]

I reckon Julian Wolhardt is digging deep in his pocket to fund the current spend by Sevco. No proof but just a gut feeling.

[jambovambo]

 

 

I’m well aware it’s Phil but no debate re the point being made here :

 

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/09/01/reprehensible-fc-winning-friends-on-the-journey/

Edited September 1, 2018 by jambovambo

[Gizmo]

8 minutes ago, jambovambo said:

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/09/01/reprehensible-fc-winning-friends-on-the-journey/

 

I’m well aware it’s Phil but no debate re the point being made here :

 

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/09/01/reprehensible-fc-winning-friends-on-the-journey/

A very pleasing slap-down by the Councillor worded in such a manner not only to fullyt address their conspiratorial "bias" comments (and the deliberate signal to let the attack dogs loose on social media - typical Traynor bullying approach), but also basically asked them who the **** they think they are.

Self-entitled arrogant arseholes acting utterly reprehensibly time and time again, it is a real shame that getting into the Europa group stages may delay their second death. 
 

[Doc Rob]

That is a very well-written letter indeed. Articulate, expressively worded, and politely furious.

[PeterintheRain]

25 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

That is a very well-written letter indeed. Articulate, expressively worded, and politely furious.

 

 You can see the hun's existing "fan zone," on goggle streetview. In front of Edmiston House.  it doesn't look very friendly. More like a pen for holding criminals for processing.  

  why don't they use that empty office block for their bars and sash bashes?

[jambovambo]

 

[The Gasman]

1 hour ago, jambovambo said:

 

 

A very well written letter, but sadly, I suspect it’s far too professional and eloquent for a lot of the SMSM and nearly all of the Neanderthals she’s responding to.  ?

[jambovambo]

 

This story has taken a turn for the worse. 

(Check where all the replies head...)

Edited September 1, 2018 by jambovambo

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, The Gasman said:

 

A very well written letter, but sadly, I suspect it’s far too professional and eloquent for a lot of the SMSM and nearly all of the Neanderthals she’s responding to.  ?

 

There is of course a thread on Rangers Media about the letter, with multiple descriptions of her and her political affiliations. Here's an entirely predictable selection from just the first page of 25 comments.

 

a vicious horrible woman

Shes a disingenuous bitch

she or the other taig

If anyone sees this bitch crossing the street just accelerate through her

the cow

anti-Rangers

vicTIM

Straight out of the taig playbook

her fenian lover

[jambovambo]

She has unwisely taken to twitter too. 

 

Looks like she’s being reported for Data Protection breaches. 

 

?

[jambovambo]

8 hours ago, farin said:

Awkward. 

 

“unwittingly” ...

 

”I’ve not touched the money .. I was concerned it would lead to trouble”...

 

Right

 

ok

[Footballfirst]

8 hours ago, farin said:

Awkward. 

 

You should have included Graham Spiers' tweet that accompanied his article in The Times

 

Graham Spiers‏ @GrahamSpiers Sep 1

I don’t go to the stake for non tax-payers. My point is, it was a system of payment foisted upon the players.

 

......... and "SFM" provided an appropriate response .......

SFM‏ @TheSFMonitor 16h16 hours ago

Replying to @GrahamSpiers

Yes let’s not go to the stake. Let’s help normalise tax evasion. Let’s deny that selfish choices are made every day by folk who HAVE a choice. Unlike most of us. Let’s chuck moral integrity on the same scrap heap as the sporting version. Oh and ‘your point’ is incorrect.

[Tommy Brown]

8 hours ago, farin said:

Awkward. 

 

 

Who is the writer, Farin?

[NANOJAMBO]

12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

You should have included Graham Spiers' tweet that accompanied his article in The Times

 

Graham Spiers‏ @GrahamSpiers Sep 1

I don’t go to the stake for non tax-payers. My point is, it was a system of payment foisted upon the players.

 

......... and "SFM" provided an appropriate response .......

SFM‏ @TheSFMonitor 16h16 hours ago

Replying to @GrahamSpiers

Yes let’s not go to the stake. Let’s help normalise tax evasion. Let’s deny that selfish choices are made every day by folk who HAVE a choice. Unlike most of us. Let’s chuck moral integrity on the same scrap heap as the sporting version. Oh and ‘your point’ is incorrect.

In which case they should have asked HMRC about it - or better, their well paid & highly qualified accountants. The players will have known in 2012 that tax was due on these "loans" because Murray offered £10 Million to HMRC as a settlement.  The players should have been up front with HMRC then - but they didn't because they all knew that none of this was declared through their contracts and therefore they and the club (RIP) were going to be in serious trouble with the footballing authorities over illegal payments. 

 

Spiers is also wrong on a point of fact - not all players were paid via EBTs - does he ever wonder why ? His attitude is disgusting - he's making the players out to be victims when they, their agents and the club were the perpetators and beneficiaries here. 

[JackLadd]

Pleading dumb is certainly apt for auldco staff. I hud naw idea a wuz oan a tax free scam wage fur ten years. Nivir checked ma payslip wance.  

[Guest]

9 hours ago, farin said:

Awkward. 

 

 

Yes, "Footballers are not accountants" but they are adults. He mentions brown envelopes as the EBTs of the past. In both cases then it's fair to assume the players knew they were dodging tax by accepting payments that way.

[Footballfirst]

Any player who requested a tax indemnity from the club (the majority did) knew exactly what the purpose of the scheme was.

[sadj]

On 01/09/2018 at 22:39, jambovambo said:

 

This story has taken a turn for the worse. 

(Check where all the replies head...)

Why did i bother to read that , snp are sectarian , we will sue for substantial damages etc , **** off you blue **** , no you **** off you green ****. That covered it i think ???

[tcjambo]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

In which case they should have asked HMRC about it - or better, their well paid & highly qualified accountants. The players will have known in 2012 that tax was due on these "loans" because Murray offered £10 Million to HMRC as a settlement.  The players should have been up front with HMRC then - but they didn't because they all knew that none of this was declared through their contracts and therefore they and the club (RIP) were going to be in serious trouble with the footballing authorities over illegal payments. 

 

Spiers is also wrong on a point of fact - not all players were paid via EBTs - does he ever wonder why ? His attitude is disgusting - he's making the players out to be victims when they, their agents and the club were the perpetators and beneficiaries here. 

Yes and every one of these clowns paid agents. If they were badly advised they should sue them for any money they are due HMRC. I hope the tax authorities collect every single penny off these people.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, tcjambo said:

Yes and every one of these clowns paid agents. If they were badly advised they should sue them for any money they are due HMRC. I hope the tax authorities collect every single penny off these people.

 

HMRC have no alternative but to chase them for the tax.  If they didn't it would create a free-for-all precedent.

Edited September 2, 2018 by JamboAl

[buzzbomb1958]

On 14/08/2018 at 18:27, sadj said:

Does it not dilute the other share values or is he thinking maybe this is a way to get the court to lower the share value he has to offer at? - that would to me be a desperate silly move as would more likely increase the number of uptakes on the offer

I noticed GASL is trying to raise £12.5mil through this share issue,my question is will he use this money like he's used everyone else's to comply with the top seems likely

[Mysterion]

3 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

I noticed GASL is trying to raise £12.5mil through this share issue,my question is will he use this money like he's used everyone else's to comply with the top seems likely

 

They want to do this to enable debt for equity swaps. Most of the total figure will not be raised and instead they are aiming to have directors loans wiped out in return for shares.