The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[soonbe110]

 

 

 

There is absolutely no possibility that they will not exist, none at all and there is no possibility that the Scottish football authorities will not facilitate their return. Best to reconcile yourself to that now

if it turns out that CW is still involved and that CG lied about it then we, the fans of all other clubs, should be able to get rid of them once and for all. It was fan pressure from non Rangers fans that put them into Div 3 last time round. Should be able to win the argument again. If we don't then scottish football is on the same corrupt level as the worst in football. The spivs are already making us look stupid. They have not seriously rebutted any of the accusations made against them since the days of SDM yet we allow them to continue. They do as they please because they are allowed to.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Trusting the SFA if The Rangers do enter admin they'll spin us the yarn they've been trying to avoid so they don't have to give them a 25 point deduction. You can see it coming a mile off with these ****wits.

[niblick1874]

Trusting the SFA if The Rangers do enter admin they'll spin us the yarn they've been trying to avoid so they don't have to give them a 25 point deduction. You can see it coming a mile off with these ****wits.

I think they'll still go up with -25 and I think the ones that run Scottish football will try to make a point by giving them that, if and when it comes to that.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Can't see it being at all simple for them to get round the football creditors rule which is what they'll have to do if they think they can simply wrip up some of the players or coaching staff contracts in admin.

[niblick1874]

The Rangers remind me of a carpet shop that continues to trade up until 5pm on a friday then declare insolvency.

 

Their so toxic even wonga wouldn't touch them. Stand up guy wallace might have realised the actual amount of spivery there & walked already & maybe an easdale might fancy being ceo himself ?. Theres the small matter of share suspension if wallace goes without a replacement exc ceo too.

If all else fails the corrupt know that the history must go with them. This time however, to do so, I believe they will have to throw themselves on their own sworde. That dose not mean to say that I don't think that they will get away with it. MSM

[inspector]

So if they take the 25 point penalty before the end of the season and are not out of administration by the start of the next, is there a further points penalty? I ask this as I read that if we are out of admin by next season there will be no further sanctions.

Am I being daft here and missing something obvious?

Edited February 9, 2014 by inspector

[adayinmay]

Sad but true. They will go into admin and take the 25 pt hit when its mathmatically impossible for anyone to catch them.

 

Basically this would be one of the most blatant and cynical cases of financial doping we've seen, with the sfa and spfl standing by and watching it unfold.

 

However the 25 pt penalty will be seen as a victory as it will solidify their campaign to be seen as the same Rangers as always. The media will as ever facilitate and promote this campaign and attempt to give it credibility.

 

The media and fans will also make the club out to have been victims of a series of spivs, ignoring the role of the likes of mccoist and smith in getting them back to this position.

 

Once Rangers are safely promoted and in a managed admin, the sfa, etc will then tighten the rules to punish the next club this happens to much more harshly.

 

Rangers will then get back to their old spending ways - cheered on by the media every step of the way.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

This maybe true ... but ...

 

Is it not the case that when a company goes into administration new owners legally need to be found under a CVA? if that is the case then the whole issue of who owns Ibrox will need resolved. And that will take an age.

 

I can't see it being a quick pre pack admin.

[niblick1874]

So if they take the 25 point penalty before the end of the season and are not out of administration by the start of the next, is there a further points penalty? I ask this as I read that if we are out of admin by next season there will be no further sanctions.

Am I being daft here and missing something obvious?

No, you are not missing a thing. There would be another points deduction if they do not move the goal posts.

[The Gasman]

People need to take a chill pill when talking about Sevco player salaries. This all came about because Green bought the club lock stock and barrel and the players transferred over under TUPE. The problem for Green is that they didn't all transfer (yup, some did walking away big time) and so he missed out on the chance to flog players for a profit. In addition guys like Fat Salary , Elbows and Lee Wallace all stayed on their current salaries - because that is the law under TUPE. Im not defending Sevco but after all the hubris on here and TSFM , not a single person has said what Sevco could legally do to reduce those salaries. It might have been OK if they hadn't had to start in the bottom tier because ST income would have been higher. In the end they should have kept the ST levels high enough to maintain the wages. But they didn't. When you add in the outrageous bonuses taken by the board and the ?3 million siphoned off to cover the IPO costs there was never going to be enough to pay the wages. Shame.

 

If the administrator decides that a particular level of wage is the highest they can afford, they are fully within their rights to terminate the contracts of any above that level who do not agree to a cut - so long as any replacement also does not exceed this self imposed limit. That is fully within the TUPE Legislation, and is often used in businesses who go bust as an easy way to reduce operating costs - not fair, morally questionable, not nice, but perfectly legal.

 

There was a conscious and deliberate decision made to retain these players on their existing salary levels - this was not forced on the club by TUPE, or any other employment legislation, they chose to do it.

[Fozzyonthefence]

The administrator could have chosen to make players redundant but chose not to. Once the sale of assets had gone through, any remaining players had to transfer across on existing wages if they agreed to transfer over under TUPE so Newco was shafted in that respect. So, effectively it was not forced on the old club but it was forced on the new club as they had no choice.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Fozzyonthefence

[niblick1874]

The administrator could have chosen to make players redundant but chose not to. Once the sale of assets had gone through, any remaining players had to transfer across on existing wages if they agreed to transfer over under TUPE so Newco was shafted in that respect. So, effectively it was not forced on the old club but it was forced on the new club as they had no choice.

There are some things that they can't feck with. That could be our (Scottish footballs) salvation.

[I.T.K]

D.King just doesn't get it at all does he ?... Controlled admin with the spivs slashing the budget & retaining control after..

 

 

 

I don't understand why the 'spivs' need a 'controlled admin' to slash the budgets.

 

Why don't they just slash the budget via loaning players out, selling players (when they had the chance), and redundancy's??

[al_hearts65]

Sevco signed a boatload of Spl Players under freedom of contract and at wages that had players thinking it was xmas every day, Ian Black is allegedly on 7K a week, even his biggest fan must know they would have got him for a lot less than that and he would still have signed on for the lower leagues, he was effectively unemployed, If all the big earners had TUPE'd over things could have been worse as there was never any guarantee they would have found buyers for them,

[DETTY29]

Sevco signed a boatload of Spl Players under freedom of contract and at wages that had players thinking it was xmas every day, Ian Black is allegedly on 7K a week, even his biggest fan must know they would have got him for a lot less than that and he would still have signed on for the lower leagues, he was effectively unemployed, If all the big earners had TUPE'd over things could have been worse as there was never any guarantee they would have found buyers for them,

Nicky Clark in the verge if the SPL at 1.4k a week to warm their bench at 4.

 

King's playing to the galkeries. Rangers need to cut costs and he knows it.

[DETTY29]

 

 

I don't understand why the 'spivs' need a 'controlled admin' to slash the budgets.

 

Why don't they just slash the budget via loaning players out, selling players (when they had the chance), and redundancy's??

Again rumours but Black, Templeton and Shields were offered for sweeties and no one interested.

[wibble]

I predict the announcement of a mystery investor who will bankroll the club to the tune of 20 million if the fans can show their commitment by selling 40k season tickets.

 

The Daily Record will confirm the existence of said billionaire sheik and the dimwits of Govan will pile in more cash before the spivs fleece the club once again. Mystery financier will disappear because, on a visit to Glasgow, he was abused by some Irish catholic immigrants and decided that it wasn't the city for him.

[I.T.K]

Again rumours but Black, Templeton and Shields were offered for sweeties and no one interested.

 

That still leaves the option of loaning them out, even if they have to pay part of the wage, or making them redundant.

 

I do not fully understand what is meant by a 'controlled admin', but it I think it complicated way to cut some costs!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I predict the announcement of a mystery investor who will bankroll the club to the tune of 20 million if the fans can show their commitment by selling 40k season tickets.

 

The Daily Record will confirm the existence of said billionaire sheik and the dimwits of Govan will pile in more cash before the spivs fleece the club once again. Mystery financier will disappear because, on a visit to Glasgow, he was abused by some Irish catholic immigrants and decided that it wasn't the city for him.

Now that's cynicism!

[Don Dan]

I'm not sure The Rangers would survive administration if the are due money to the tax man and we all know which way they will vote on a CVA exit.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

That still leaves the option of loaning them out, even if they have to pay part of the wage, or making them redundant.

 

I do not fully understand what is meant by a 'controlled admin', but it I think it complicated way to cut some costs!

 

It is only "controlled" because of the voluntary aspect.

 

Running out of cash would be ok if you didn't have to pay bills.

[al_hearts65]

A wee bit on pre pack admin

 

http://icas.org.uk/home/technical-and-research/technical-information-and-guidance/pre-pack-administrations---what-are-they-and-why-are-they-controversial-/

[Hagar the Horrible]

The big elephant in the room with Newco is, they have NO credit facilities, they have to keep operating in the black, the second they cant pay a bill and that creditor wants it toot sweet, then they are deep in it. If the biggest creditor turns out to be Hector, then no CVA can be reached but their big problem needs to be for whoever is in charge of new-newco, they will be lumbered with full footballing debt . They can end up in admin with a small bill and the courts freeze their bank accounts, Its attitude that's their biggest enemy, the new caretakers need to mange the club properly, and again they need a new owner who can get them credit facilities, or run the club as an actual business and stop acting like they are a massive institution that are immortal. This administration or the next they need to stop being a basket case, and get their spivs out.

[The Gasman]

The administrator could have chosen to make players redundant but chose not to. Once the sale of assets had gone through, any remaining players had to transfer across on existing wages if they agreed to transfer over under TUPE so Newco was shafted in that respect. So, effectively it was not forced on the old club but it was forced on the new club as they had no choice.

 

That is not correct, a wage cap could still have been imposed within TUPE.

 

This would leave the players (employees) with the choice of accepting a cut, or accepting redundancy. All the administrator would have required to do, is to be able to demonstrate that the OldCo salaries would be unsustainable in NewCo (easy!) and they would be fully compliant with TUPE when imposing a cut. So long as no new signings exceeded any self imposed cap for a year or two, would have let them make these cuts 100% legally.

 

Allowing the players to transfer on their existing high earning contracts was a conscious and deliberate decision - not a legal requirement.

 

....or someone got it horribly wrong?

Edited February 10, 2014 by The Gasman

[west lothian loyal]

What's the new league's ruling on Sporting integrity ,it doesn't appear to me that The rangers are being very sporting or showing a great deal of integrity .

[Deevers]

A wee bit on pre pack admin

 

http://icas.org.uk/h...controversial-/

I think that elephant in the room as regards this is the position of Craig Whyte. If he maintains his position regarding the ownership of the fixed assets and a court case looms over this I can't see any Administration event being quick. There is also the position of HMRC to consider - if they are owed considerable amounts of money this time round there is no way that they will be easy to deal with.

[DETTY29]

What's the new league's ruling on Sporting integrity ,it doesn't appear to me that The rangers are being very sporting or showing a great deal of integrity .

Sporting integrity is fanciful.

 

Simply there are rules.

Edited February 10, 2014 by DETTY29

[jamboruss]

What's the new league's ruling on Sporting integrity ,it doesn't appear to me that The rangers are being very sporting or showing a great deal of integrity .

 

Hah! You're taking the Mick eh? It's our "authorities" and one of their darlings we're talking about here - the rules are simple - bend over backwards to help the bigot brothers, REALLY shaft Hearts on every possible occasion and treat the other diddy clubs, just as such!

[ERJEAN51]

'Rest of the season' season tickets on sale now...

 

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/club-news/item/6141-season-tickets

[The Gasman]

'Rest of the season' season tickets on sale now...

 

http://www.rangers.c...-season-tickets

 

That really smacks of desperation.

[The Gasman]

Billionaire like this ?

 

Blacks on 5k pw with 2k appearance fee. Temps is on more than that. A friendly administrator like Bdo is all they need to control the process again.

 

They've had months to prepare all this & lay the groundwork. They hoped Wallace could get the investment needed, but outside Scotland The Rangers are just seen as too toxic.

 

 

Hmfc the team for me ...

 

They've undoubtedly had the time, but is there any sign that they've actually done any preparatory work, or just hoped their problems will somehow go away..?

[Footballfirst]

There is no such thing as a "controlled administration". The "best" that RIFC can do is to select their preferred administrator for an "insolvent" TRFC and request that they follow a path that will allow RIFC to hold onto the fixed assets, but to allow TRFC's expensive contracts to be broken.

 

The administrator will act in the interests of the creditors (D&P need not apply). However, as the major creditor RIFC would be in a position to influence matters. Administration for TRFC would in one fell swoop allow them to get their income and costs into line by ending costly player and other contracts. The rump of club would be sold to "Ranjurs men", but tied into a long and expensive lease on Ibrox. RIFC would become a property company with a guaranteed income, plus an up front lump sum of whatever someone actually pays for the club.

[ERJEAN51]

Should they reach the Scottish Cup final, they will effectively have three home games as they will all be played at Ibrox, (plus I suppose they get some sort of hire fee for the games and the other semi-final) would this not give them a couple of million?

[Paolo]

Should they reach the Scottish Cup final, they will effectively have three home games as they will all be played at Ibrox, (plus I suppose they get some sort of hire fee for the games and the other semi-final) would this not give them a couple of million?

 

The final is at Parkhead. The semi is ludicrously at Ibrox, though.

[Paolo]

Should they reach the Scottish Cup final, they will effectively have three home games as they will all be played at Ibrox, (plus I suppose they get some sort of hire fee for the games and the other semi-final) would this not give them a couple of million?

 

The final is at Parkhead. The semi is ludicrously at Ibrox, though.

[brownkg]

'Rest of the season' season tickets on sale now...

 

http://www.rangers.c...-season-tickets

but how many of these have they git left to sell what with all their myriad of full season ticket holders?

10,000 @?100 average a pop is still only 1 month's worth of loss

[Stuart Lyon]

Isn't HMRC's appeal on the big tax case due to start next month!

[I.T.K]

Another question: Why is there so much talk of admin?

 

I might of missed something, but do rangers owe money to any parties now?

 

I understand that they are losing money and will run out around the end of the season, but all this admin talk is a bit premature IMO. (Even if for just a few months.)

 

I would expect to see news of winding up orders, non payment of wages before admin kicks in!

 

Have my missed something?

[Hagar the Horrible]

 

Another question: Why is there so much talk of admin?

 

I might of missed something, but do rangers owe money to any parties now?

 

I understand that they are losing money and will run out around the end of the season, but all this admin talk is a bit premature IMO. (Even if for just a few months.)

 

I would expect to see news of winding up orders, non payment of wages before admin kicks in!

 

Have my missed something?

 

They are not in debt, but they are late in paying the taxman (insider source) as of last week, but it might have been paid by now? Its the fact they are spending ?1m per month more than they are bringing in, and the money is running out fast, they have no credit facilities and at that point there will be problems, Raising cash is one option but it just wont cover the lack of action on reducing spending, its almost as if Admin is plan A. but what do we know??? I know enough you cant pend money you don't have and wham all the cards are maxed out then its going to get ugly. They will go into admin owing only a small amount of money, but its the cash flow that will be an issue, and the spivs could end up buying the whole club back again for a few quid, shaft those from the IPO and start the whole process over again

[I.T.K]

They are not in debt, but they are late in paying the taxman (insider source) as of last week, but it might have been paid by now? Its the fact they are spending ?1m per month more than they are bringing in, and the money is running out fast, they have no credit facilities and at that point there will be problems, Raising cash is one option but it just wont cover the lack of action on reducing spending, its almost as if Admin is plan A. but what do we know??? I know enough you cant pend money you don't have and wham all the cards are maxed out then its going to get ugly. They will go into admin owing only a small amount of money, but its the cash flow that will be an issue, and the spivs could end up buying the whole club back again for a few quid, shaft those from the IPO and start the whole process over again

 

Thanks for the info. The non payment of tax was news to me, but more interesting was the last sentence.

 

I could not understand why Eastdales etc. would risk their investment. But if I understood the last sentence correctly, they are risking losing their small ownership of the club against the chance to own the whole club. i.e. club goes in to admin with a 'pre pack' plan to sell the whole club at a knock down price to another company that they already own. As major share holders they can potently force the vote to make this happen.

 

Is this possible?

[The Mighty Thor]

They will go into admin owing only a small amount of money, but its the cash flow that will be an issue, and the spivs could end up buying the whole club back again for a few quid, shaft those from the IPO and start the whole process over again

 

I would actually shit my pants laughing if that came to pass.

[Footballfirst]

Isn't HMRC's appeal on the big tax case due to start next month!

 

The UTTT starts two weeks today.

[Brandt]

There is no such thing as a "controlled administration". The "best" that RIFC can do is to select their preferred administrator for an "insolvent" TRFC and request that they follow a path that will allow RIFC to hold onto the fixed assets, but to allow TRFC's expensive contracts to be broken.

 

The administrator will act in the interests of the creditors (D&P need not apply). However, as the major creditor RIFC would be in a position to influence matters. Administration for TRFC would in one fell swoop allow them to get their income and costs into line by ending costly player and other contracts. The rump of club would be sold to "Ranjurs men", but tied into a long and expensive lease on Ibrox. RIFC would become a property company with a guaranteed income, plus an up front lump sum of whatever someone actually pays for the club.

 

Sounds like theyre going to be in great shape when they meet us in the 1st division.

[Hagar the Horrible]

 

 

 

Thanks for the info. The non payment of tax was news to me, but more interesting was the last sentence.

 

I could not understand why Eastdales etc. would risk their investment. But if I understood the last sentence correctly, they are risking losing their small ownership of the club against the chance to own the whole club. i.e. club goes in to admin with a 'pre pack' plan to sell the whole club at a knock down price to another company that they already own. As major share holders they can potently force the vote to make this happen.

 

Is this possible?

 

If they put in a bid quickly, get sympathetic Administrators again, become preferred bidders, own the whole club 100% (they might end up being the creditors as well) shaft all investors from the IPO. but to ensure that happens they need to ensure they put Ibrox and MP into another company they own and protect the fixed assets (the floating charge) all you need is a good pair. They have already got their ROI from the IPO so they cant lose any money even if the deal/plan goes south. Float again on the stock exchange and repeat the process, even if another bidder gets in, they still hold all the aces by keeping the stadium protected.. The only thing up for debate is who is going to play who in film?

[Deevers]

If they put in a bid quickly, get sympathetic Administrators again, become preferred bidders, own the whole club 100% (they might end up being the creditors as well) shaft all investors from the IPO. but to ensure that happens they need to ensure they put Ibrox and MP into another company they own and protect the fixed assets (the floating charge) all you need is a good pair. They have already got their ROI from the IPO so they cant lose any money even if the deal/plan goes south. Float again on the stock exchange and repeat the process, even if another bidder gets in, they still hold all the aces by keeping the stadium protected.. The only thing up for debate is who is going to play who in film?

Think the fly in the ointment with all of this is the possible intervention of Craig Whyte and his claim on the fixed assets. If he actually follows through his claim on this by taking it to court it could cause a significant delay in any administration event that might take place. No Administrator could flog the assets while there was any sort of on-going litigation regarding the rightful ownership of them. Of course he might be sitting in the background as part of the group who'd be willing to take the assets and lease them back at a whopper of a rent. Going to interesting if it all happens.

[Tommy Brown]

If they put in a bid quickly, get sympathetic Administrators again, become preferred bidders, own the whole club 100% (they might end up being the creditors as well) shaft all investors from the IPO. but to ensure that happens they need to ensure they put Ibrox and MP into another company they own and protect the fixed assets (the floating charge) all you need is a good pair. They have already got their ROI from the IPO so they cant lose any money even if the deal/plan goes south. Float again on the stock exchange and repeat the process, even if another bidder gets in, they still hold all the aces by keeping the stadium protected.. The only thing up for debate is who is going to play who in film?

 

this makes me laugh every time I think of it. If the film was was made of this a piece of fiction, it would be ridiculed as being too far fetched.

Even two of the biggest baddies being called green and white.

[Hagar the Horrible]

 

 

Think the fly in the ointment with all of this is the possible intervention of Craig Whyte and his claim on the fixed assets. If he actually follows through his claim on this by taking it to court it could cause a significant delay in any administration event that might take place. No Administrator could flog the assets while there was any sort of on-going litigation regarding the rightful ownership of them. Of course he might be sitting in the background as part of the group who'd be willing to take the assets and lease them back at a whopper of a rent. Going to interesting if it all happens.

 

The assets will be secured before the admin event, BUT to this day and in the words of Bomber: where are the deeds?????

 

Ok some of this is speculation but you have to ask, if your were a spiv with no moral rectitude, what would you do??? we should get bracelets made up with WWWD What would Whyte Do

[Hagar the Horrible]

 

 

 

this makes me laugh every time I think of it. If the film was was made of this a piece of fiction, it would be ridiculed as being too far fetched.

Even two of the biggest baddies being called green and white.

 

If Lex Gold or Jason Orange are next...oh the irony

[The Gasman]

 

 

If Lex Gold or Jason Orange are next...oh the irony

 

 

It would almost be worth starting that as a rumour, just to hear the seethe....

 

[Allowayjambo1874]

Sad but true. They will go into admin and take the 25 pt hit when its mathmatically impossible for anyone to catch them.

 

Basically this would be one of the most blatant and cynical cases of financial doping we've seen, with the sfa and spfl standing by and watching it unfold.

 

However the 25 pt penalty will be seen as a victory as it will solidify their campaign to be seen as the same Rangers as always. The media will as ever facilitate and promote this campaign and attempt to give it credibility.

 

The media and fans will also make the club out to have been victims of a series of spivs, ignoring the role of the likes of mccoist and smith in getting them back to this position.

 

Once Rangers are safely promoted and in a managed admin, the sfa, etc will then tighten the rules to punish the next club this happens to much more harshly.

 

Rangers will then get back to their old spending ways - cheered on by the media every step of the way.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

This is the scenario I expected to happen, however there may be three flies in ointment:

 

Firstly, looking at most clubs that have went into admin it has taken at least 3 months to come out of admin (probably due to legal issues) so they need to do this sooner rather than later and if they wait until March then this may screw them up for the championship and another points deduction.

 

Secondly, Leeds Utd (I think) tried this in 2007 when they were already down and the FA hammered them for the following season as well (I know that this would mean the SFA would have to have some form of integrity to follow suit, which will be doubtful)

 

Thirdly, HMRC having been dicked twice for huge bills may decide enough is enough. I don't know legally what they are able to do but cannot see them just allowing this to go on and on with them losing out on millions of pounds.

[adayinmay]

This is the scenario I expected to happen, however there may be three flies in ointment:

 

Firstly, looking at most clubs that have went into admin it has taken at least 3 months to come out of admin (probably due to legal issues) so they need to do this sooner rather than later and if they wait until March then this may screw them up for the championship and another points deduction.

 

Secondly, Leeds Utd (I think) tried this in 2007 when they were already down and the FA hammered them for the following season as well (I know that this would mean the SFA would have to have some form of integrity to follow suit, which will be doubtful)

 

Thirdly, HMRC having been dicked twice for huge bills may decide enough is enough. I don't know legally what they are able to do but cannot see them just allowing this to go on and on with them losing out on millions of pounds.

 

The other Elephant in the ointment is ownership of assets.

 

No admin process can proceed until the legal claim of ownership is cleared up and administrators have the right to sell assets. Nobody knows for sure who owns Ibrox with more than one party claiming to. That will all take quite some time to clear up.