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The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.


Sergio Garcia

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It's going to be a wonderful few months watching while all this unfolds before us. Funnily enough my accountant chum told me months ago that he reckoned that HMRC were far from finished with them and were playing the long game and biding their time. Maybe their time has now come.

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BangkokHearts

Dear Santa,

 

For Christmas this year I would like HMRC to pursue Rangers as a phoenix company liable for all debt of the previous incarnation.

 

Thanks,

 

A good Jambo.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

Dear Santa,

 

For Christmas this year I would like HMRC to pursue Rangers as a phoenix company liable for all debt of the previous incarnation, and for the SFA and SPFL to be exposed as being complicit in rigging things in the their favour.

 

Thanks,

 

A good Jambo.

Added a wee extra present to your list.

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Dear Santa,

 

For Christmas this year I would like HMRC to pursue Rangers as a phoenix company liable for all debt of the previous incarnation.

 

Thanks,

 

A good Jambo.

Dear Good Jambo

 

As you have been a good boy throughout the year I will grant you your wish.

 

It may take a while but it will be worth waiting for and the best present any good jambo could wish for.

 

Santa

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I think the dam is about to finally give way concerning Rangers, there is bad news day by day almost hour by hour now. 

When the dam does break and it will eventually break a lot of people will get caught in the flood, whole scale change is coming.

 

Wouldn't it be a bit ironic if the club whose allegiance is with 'Her Majesty' is finally put to death by one of 'Her Majesty's' departments. 

 

This time there will be no rising out of the ashes.

 

Not ITK but this isn't going to end well for der hun, you can almost sense the wolves circling just waiting to launch the final attack on their prey. 

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I think the dam is about to finally give way concerning Rangers, there is bad news day by day almost hour by hour now. 

When the dam does break and it will eventually break a lot of people will get caught in the flood, whole scale change is coming.

 

Wouldn't it be a bit ironic if the club whose allegiance is with 'Her Majesty' is finally put to death by one of 'Her Majesty's' departments. 

 

This time there will be no rising out of the ashes.

 

Not ITK but this isn't going to end well for der hun, you can almost sense the wolves circling just waiting to launch the final attack on their prey. 

 

And had there been any humility or contrition back in 2012, then perhaps this wouldn't be where we are now.  Yet their WATP attitude, not to mention collusion from the press and the footballing authorities leads us to where we are.  You reap what you sow.

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If HMRC do pursue Rangers as a Phoenix, then that is utterly them finished.

No way back for a financially teetering club suddenly plonked with a ?50million bill.

Unless Ashley buys them out of sheer spite

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Just catching up on the sorry state of affairs.

 

Firstly; that GASL statement is incredible. The threatening tone and lack of humility utterly sums up "Real Rainjurz Men" and is breathtaking in its arrogance. You really do wonder where this is going when he feels he needs to come out all guns blazing as he has done.

 

Secondly; a few pages back, I alluded to a conversation that I had with my previous boss. The conversation suggested that a certain MSM journalist who supports St Mirren had told my ex-boss that the sh*t was about to hit the fan - big time. He mentioned the involvement of SDM in this, which at the time, threw me off slightly and had me questioning the credibility of the source. But maybe, just maybe, the revelations that are going to come to light do indeed include SDM, amongst others. Are we about to see the unravelling of the great Scottish football conspiracy?

 

Finally; I don't think anyone on this thread has questioned Big Mike's power and ruthlessness. It is clear he is on the war-path but as ever, it is unclear as to what his end game is. The GASL has met a very fierce (and incredibly wealthy) enemy and it seems he knows he can't win. 

 

The phrase of the 1739 pages for me still remains this beauty: "Mike Ashley has saved Rangers, of that there can be no doubt" :lol:

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And had there been any humility or contrition back in 2012, then perhaps this wouldn't be where we are now.  Yet their WATP attitude, not to mention collusion from the press and the footballing authorities leads us to where we are.  You reap what you sow.

 

Exactly, Rangers have very few friends just at a time when they need all the help and goodwill they can get.

 

They have only themselves to blame with their WATP, arrogance, bullying and threats.

They are the playground bully who got a smack in the face 3 years ago but instead of learning a lesson that people had had enough of them they continued with their bullying & threats.

The time has come for them to learn a harsh lesson in that we won't be bullied any longer. 

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King does have a point though. They could probably have signed players as shite as Bert Konterman without using an EBT! :laugh:

:rofl: genuine laugh out loud at that.

 

Won't somebody think of the fans!

 

King's statement is brilliant. Reads off sometime absolutely shitting themselves and spewing any possible argument or threat to protect themselves.

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Just catching up on the sorry state of affairs.

 

Firstly; that GASL statement is incredible. The threatening tone and lack of humility utterly sums up "Real Rainjurz Men" and is breathtaking in its arrogance. You really do wonder where this is going when he feels he needs to come out all guns blazing as he has done.

 

Secondly; a few pages back, I alluded to a conversation that I had with my previous boss. The conversation suggested that a certain MSM journalist who supports St Mirren had told my ex-boss that the sh*t was about to hit the fan - big time. He mentioned the involvement of SDM in this, which at the time, threw me off slightly and had me questioning the credibility of the source. But maybe, just maybe, the revelations that are going to come to light do indeed include SDM, amongst others. Are we about to see the unravelling of the great Scottish football conspiracy?

 

Finally; I don't think anyone on this thread has questioned Big Mike's power and ruthlessness. It is clear he is on the war-path but as ever, it is unclear as to what his end game is. The GASL has met a very fierce (and incredibly wealthy) enemy and it seems he knows he can't win. 

 

The phrase of the 1739 pages for me still remains this beauty: "Mike Ashley has saved Rangers, of that there can be no doubt" :lol:

 

There are so many links between certain individuals and directors of this company and that company it really is a tangled web.

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Mind the wee fella that used to walk around the track at Ibrox shouting 'Erza Spearmint choongum,get yer Macaroon bars,'

Well he used his loaf Mothers Pride btw,not Warburtons,and on next matchday he's going to start a new venture.

'Erza Grecian 2000,get yer Just for Men' :)

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Maroon tinted glasses 2

If you were to take the words "Phoenix Company" in relation to the liquidation process then my interpritation (without being involved in that line of work) would be -

 

A company that has been liquidated but then comes back expecting to operate exactly as it did before just without any of the negative links or debt.

 

 

You couldnt really look at rangers nowadays without thinking that they are a phoenix company as they still operate from the same locations, wear the same badge (with 5 stars above it), lay claim to the same history/successes and play under the same licence however they dont want to have anything to do with the negative sides of the old company like EBT, side letters or debt. Effectively they want to keep the old stuff that earns them money but deny anything that cost them money and im almost sure this is exactly what a phoenix company is.

 

In a court with any solicitor or QC worth his salt then it could be easliy proven they are trying to operate as the same club/company and did in fact go through what could be classed as a selective (and probably fraudulant) liquidation so i hope that this is the bombshell that HMRC has up their sleeve.     

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Hagar the Horrible

Can we take stock.....  We want Green to win today so that newfraudco will be liable to pay Greens very hefty legal fees, then at the actual case we want Green and Whyte et al to lose, go to jail, Rangers deemed as a pheonix,  Hector goes after them with everything, they die again, only next time the lessons learned will be we wont need to strip them of their titles because version 3.0 will be told categorically that they are a new club and they will have to go through due process to be re-instated back at the bottom yet again.  Does that just about cover it?

 

Oh and the SFA get brought down as complicit in the conspiracy?

 

Can I see this nah , and at the end of the day some football fans who just want to support their club get punished all over again,  but a wee bit of humility and there might have been a modicum of sympathy?  If all of this was to happen??????

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Exactly, Rangers have very few friends just at a time when they need all the help and goodwill they can get.

 

They have only themselves to blame with their WATP, arrogance, bullying and threats.

They are the playground bully who got a smack in the face 3 years ago but instead of learning a lesson that people had had enough of them they continued with their bullying & threats.

The time has come for them to learn a harsh lesson in that we won't be bullied any longer.

 

I was on Follow Follow this morning around 7.30 and there was a thread on DCK that was around 15 pages long or thereabouts,EVERYONE was gushing in their praise for King,he is the new messiah to them,he can do no wrong,it's everyone else to blame,seriously,they are demented,
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That sentence you hi-lighted paraphrased. Move on. Does that sound familiar?

Familiar? Am I missing something here?

 

Edit ah, or someone?

Edited by Smithee
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I was on Follow Follow this morning around 7.30 and there was a thread on DCK that was around 15 pages long or thereabouts,EVERYONE was gushing in their praise for King,he is the new messiah to them,he can do no wrong,it's everyone else to blame,seriously,they are demented,

They were the exact same when Charles Green 'stood up' to everyone in Rangers' way.

 

How did that work out for them? :lol:

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Hagar the Horrible

As Abraham Lincoln said on his 1863 internet blog,  You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.  Yes YOU can, he also stated that whats the worst that can happen going to the theater?

 

But King is the new messiah and they should know because they have followed a few!

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We are now on the 44th day of October and King's October war chest as tweeted by either Sons of Threatening Everyone or The 47 Hour Director is yet to materialise.

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As Abraham Lincoln said on his 1863 internet blog,  You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.  Yes YOU can, he also stated that whats the worst that can happen going to the theater?

 

But King is the new messiah and they should know because they have followed a few!

 

 

https://youtu.be/plZRe1kPWZw

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Hector goes after them with everything, they die again, only next time the lessons learned will be we wont need to strip them of their titles because version 3.0 will be told categorically that they are a new club and they will have to go through due process to be re-instated back at the bottom yet again. Does that just about cover it.

 

Allow two clubs to gain entry into the SFL without three years worth of accounts and a licence without applying as well as other things you require would have the non leagues teams in uproar.

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I P Knightley

If you were to take the words "Phoenix Company" in relation to the liquidation process then my interpretation (without being involved in that line of work) would be -

 

A company that has been liquidated but then comes back expecting to operate exactly as it did before just without any of the negative links or debt.

 

 

You couldn't really look at rangers nowadays without thinking that they are a phoenix company as they still operate from the same locations, wear the same badge (with 5 stars above it), lay claim to the same history/successes and play under the same licence however they don't want to have anything to do with the negative sides of the old company like EBT, side letters or debt. Effectively they want to keep the old stuff that earns them money but deny anything that cost them money and im almost sure this is exactly what a phoenix company is.

 

In a court with any solicitor or QC worth his salt then it could be easily proven they are trying to operate as the same club/company and did in fact go through what could be classed as a selective (and probably fraudulent) liquidation so i hope that this is the bombshell that HMRC has up their sleeve.     

 

 

What you've written is common sense and, to most laymen, would appear absolutely stuck on and I wish it would come to fruition. However, I suspect that the legal system could complicate matters and make the question drag out.

 

We've already got the questionable distinction between a "club" and a "company". A club could be viewed as an asset, something that generates future revenues for its owners; in this case, a series of companies. If that's judged to be the case, HMRC are questioning the legitimacy of the way in which a previous company funded that asset to make it generate the income. And if that stays in HMRC's favour, does any fault lie with the asset - the club? The extent of HMRC's reach is the company that cooked up the dodgy scheme; in this case, Murray's version of Rangers which has since been liquidated. i.e. I don't think there's a chance that they can go after King's company for the old tax liability.

 

If that's the way the cookie crumbles, we're left with a conclusion that the asset/club gained rewards and awards using illegitimate means (really what LNS should have concluded had he had a sufficient remit & cooperation from Ogilvie and others). Those illegitimate means, though, aren't primarily the shady operation of EBTs but, as has been mentioned, the failure to declare earnings under EBT & side letters with player & staff registrations. And, if that were the case, the SFA/PL ought to be asking itself whether the integrity of its competitions is damaged by allowing the club to carry on claiming victory in those competitions. 

 

Can we take stock.....  We want Green to win today so that newfraudco will be liable to pay Greens very hefty legal fees, then at the actual case we want Green and Whyte et al to lose, go to jail, Rangers deemed as a pheonix,  Hector goes after them with everything, they die again, only next time the lessons learned will be we wont need to strip them of their titles because version 3.0 will be told categorically that they are a new club and they will have to go through due process to be re-instated back at the bottom yet again.  Does that just about cover it?

 

Oh and the SFA get brought down as complicit in the conspiracy?

 

Can I see this nah , and at the end of the day some football fans who just want to support their club get punished all over again,  but a wee bit of humility and there might have been a modicum of sympathy?  If all of this was to happen??????

 

There's also a bit where someone decides that the ?5.5m sale of assets to Green was illegal and ownership on those assets reverts to the Oldco so that a 'proper' price can be raised by BDO to benefit the Oldco creditors. I'd probably spunk my pants at that.

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I P Knightley

Hector goes after them with everything, they die again, only next time the lessons learned will be we wont need to strip them of their titles because version 3.0 will be told categorically that they are a new club and they will have to go through due process to be re-instated back at the bottom yet again. Does that just about cover it.

 

Allow two clubs to gain entry into the SFL without three years worth of accounts and a licence without applying as well as other things you require would have the non leagues teams in uproar.

I think the only certainty in this is that the SPFL/SFA won't do the right thing.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

The phrase of the 1739 pages for me still remains this beauty: "Mike Ashley has saved Rangers, of that there can be no doubt" :lol:

:rofl:

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@JamesDoleman is evidently getting Twitter-grief for ... reporting what is being said in the Court.

 

"Obsessed" or ... doing his job ?

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@JamesDoleman is evidently getting Twitter-grief for ... reporting what is being said in the Court.

 

"Obsessed" or ... doing his job ?

Its a free country

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I P Knightley

@JamesDoleman is evidently getting Twitter-grief for ... reporting what is being said in the Court.

 

"Obsessed" or ... doing his job ?

"Obsessed" seems to be their 'go to' comeback.

 

Obsessed about football; obsessed about seeing fair play for our 'wee' club; obsessed about sporting integrity; obsessed about not letting proven cheats and liars get away with it?

 

I doubt many take umbridge about being described as obsessed in these circumstances!

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i wish jj was my dad

The sfa have never had ANY credibility. they have always run the game for the blazer wearing office bearers and the ugly sisters in glasgow, nothing else matters.

What he says

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King's statement is incredible. But I wonder who wrote it? That's two intemperate rants on their web site this week.

 

Given that their PR people have not been paid, it is not from Jim Traynor. I am told from a good source in PR that it is being written by the islamophobic bigot who was on the Rangers board for 10 minutes. Chris somebody?

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I love the fact Rangers are an embarrassing mess.

Most of my formative years they were a powerhouse, and you had to avoid their fans as they wittered on about this victory or Champions league draws, signing the England captain that, Laudrup, Gattuso , Gazza.

Now the guys I know who follow them simply don't even want to talk about football- because I can quite happily lampoon them for hours.

THey have no defiance left- one mess to another.

Its not the scummy fans they have lost- its the ones with a bit of money......

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Rangers cheating tax to field a team of players they couldn't otherwise afford

Charles Green needing financial help to field a team of Solicitors/Advocates he cannot afford

Dave King with no funds to field a team of Solicitors/Advocates

 

The only person with any money is big Mike Ashley and they didn't want him!

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Rangers cheating tax to field a team of players they couldn't otherwise afford

Charles Green needing financial help to field a team of Solicitors/Advocates he cannot afford

Dave King with no funds to field a team of Solicitors/Advocates

 

The only person with any money is big Mike Ashley and they didn't want him!

Craig Whyte - bankrupt

SDM - allegedly going to prop up Scottish steel industry (bless him)

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Will we find out if Charles wins today?

If Scottish court is anything like American, the judge will issue an opinion today, yes.

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The debate about titles will never end.

Rangers cheated and improperly registered players.

I watched many Hearts teams over those years being hosed silly, thumped out of competitions while their fans cheered and taunted, and rained us with bile and spit.

I, for one, am loving this.

Yes its a bit petty, and yes its about payback.

But it is also about fairness and equity.

If tomorrow Hearts were found to be currently making secret non disclosed payments to players (ie in 2015) what would our punishment be?
Because the rangers chairman would have us believe there should not be one

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Herald : http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14030167.Graeme_McGarry__Dave_King_told_Rangers_fans_what_they_wanted_to_hear__but_he_won_t_end_debate_over_title_stripping/?ref=twtrec

 

"Dave King told Rangers fans what they wanted to hear, but he won't end debate over title-stripping"

The article says Rangers or BDO will likely appeal ? what has this got to do with Rangers it will be BDO and BDO in discussion with their creditors who will see if this is in their best interests to appeal.

 

As one of those is HMRC its unlikely they are going to support action against their own successful outcome.

 

Am I right in saying that even if they want to appeal it has to be assessed whether there is any real merit in it before being referred back to court?

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The article says Rangers or BDO will likely appeal ? what has this got to do with Rangers it will be BDO and BDO in discussion with their creditors who will see if this is in their best interests to appeal.

 

As one of those is HMRC its unlikely they are going to support action against their own successful outcome.

 

Am I right in saying that even if they want to appeal it has to be assessed whether there is any real merit in it before being referred back to court?

I believe that an appeal can only be based on a point of law at this late stage
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I believe that an appeal can only be based on a point of law at this late stage

They would still have to apply for leave to appeal at this stage. It is not certain if that leave would be granted.

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They would still have to apply for leave to appeal at this stage. It is not certain if that leave would be granted.

 

correct-and interesting that Murray's other interests were not even represented at  the CoS hearing...

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They would still have to apply for leave to appeal at this stage. It is not certain if that leave would be granted.

BDO would have to have a strong case to its creditors that the appeal is likely to be successful otherwise they are spending the pot and I cant see where that confidence is coming from.

 

CoS was pretty clear on its ruling.

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BDO would have to have a strong case to its creditors that the appeal is likely to be successful otherwise they are spending the pot and I cant see where that confidence is coming from.

 

CoS was pretty clear on its ruling.

Yes, this bit I don't get. BDO will need creditor approval ( I think) to appeal-but the biggest creditor even ignoring the Big Tax Case, is still HMRC.( I think). Slight conflict.

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Rangers cheating tax to field a team of players they couldn't otherwise afford

Charles Green needing financial help to field a team of Solicitors/Advocates he cannot afford

Dave King with no funds to field a team of Solicitors/Advocates

 

The only person with any money is big Mike Ashley and they didn't want him!

LOL. Great post.

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Just seen daily record article saying about title stripping and a Hearts especially should be worried as we'd have 2scottish cups taken away. What has ebt's and not paying taxes to do with us ?

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Just seen daily record article saying about title stripping and a Hearts especially should be worried as we'd have 2scottish cups taken away. What has ebt's and not paying taxes to do with us ?

The weegie comic are panicking as their beloved team goes down the stank, hopefully they will go with them and die a slow death.

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