Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 2m2 minutes ago Brown: If the charge against Green is proved "the business and assets [of Rangers] would be the proceeds of crime," James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 2m2 minutes ago Brown 2/2 "This would open the door for a claim by the liquidators on the assets." Excuse my ignorance who is Brown representing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Times have changed with the rise of and usage of social media and blogs etc, this in turn makes more and more organisations more accountable to the general public as things can be shared and discussed online by a great number of people in multiple locations very easily, this in turn makes it much harder for organisations to simply either ignore the public or to just try and sweep things under the carpet. Social media campaigns can become global in a matter of hours and these in turn can apply pressure upon sponsors and the likes who certainly don't want the adverse global attention which can happen if they are associated with a dodgy organisation. I firmly believe that there has been a sea-change and the ordinary Scottish Football fan is fed up with the continual and blatant favouritism and indeed cheating by the custodians of our game. The SFA would be incredibly stupid if they were to try and bury this and as for the SMSM and their blatant propaganda and downright lies, the public will remember. There's no place to hide now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Excuse my ignorance who is Brown representing? Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 48s49 seconds ago Brown says that when agreement was signed both parties were aware "there might be litigation over these matters" Fun's over for lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Green. Thanks [emoji106] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phage Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 CG court case could get tastey. My best scenario... CG wins his legal fee bid but gets found guilty with the highest paid lawyers at his disposal unable to prove his innocence at Newco's expense. Proceeds of crime take the assets and the liquidators, liquidate and get a fair price for the taxman amongst others. If MA could find the spare dosh to buy thise assets and mothball/bulldoze them for giggles that would be the cherry on top :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Either Green wins & bankrupts Sevco with legal bills, or loses and their assets are proceeds of crime. [emoji1]. Puffs on cigar... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Ha ha ha Greens Laywer is making a complete mug of Rangers here its pure gold. Eh its in your own interest for Green to be found not guilty so why are you not defending him ya bunch of dafty's pay up and shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 CG court case could get tastey. My best scenario... CG wins his legal fee bid but gets found guilty with the highest paid lawyers at his disposal unable to prove his innocence at Newco's expense. Proceeds of crime take the assets and the liquidators, liquidate and get a fair price for the taxman amongst others. If MA could find the spare dosh to buy thise assets and mothball/bulldoze them for giggles that would be the cherry on top :-) If the assets were deemed proceeds of crime. By far the largest creditor of the liquidated Rangers now is HMRC, so they can quite rightly put pressure on BDO to pursue the assets as then HMRC and the other creditors get more back after Ibrox/Murray Park etc are sold off to the highest bidder, whether that be Ashley, King, Tesco, Asda, Barratt Homes or whoever. Of course with Mr. Brown saying what he did in court, this also means that any idea of any share issue is now firmly dead in the water, it also could pretty much kill off any chance of King being able to raise any external funding as there is now severe doubts over the assets and their potential long term future of who could ultimately own them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairneyhill Jambo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Fill your boots. Now available on Ebay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-pack-of-STRIP-THE-TITLES-Scotland-Aberdeen-Celtic-Motherwell-Hibernian-etc-/351576661359?hash=item51db9a1d6f:g:MnwAAOSwu-BWQ7d0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Is there a decision today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Is there a decision today? 2 days allocated for this so unlikely today unless someone throws in the towel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Is the financial squeeze at Ibrox now hitting Mark Warburton? MARK Warburton has admitted that Rangers could allow key players to leave in January - if the price is right. The Ibrox boss told the Evening Times that Rangers could be forced to sell players if the ?right fee? is offered, saying: ?I don?t want anyone to leave the football club. ?If they leave for a sum that offers value, it means the recruitment has been right because they?ve produced a level of performance which has attracted a bigger club that can afford to pay us a fee above and beyond what we?d want to get for a player. ?If a player comes in and gets offered quadruple his wages to play down south, we aren?t going to stand in his way as long as we get the right fee.? Let's try to remember this when one of their players ships out to Port Vale or some such club I never thought I'd be defending Rangers but Employee Benefit Trusts were legitimate then and are legitimate now. When SDM first issued Rangers' employees with EBTs they were legitimate and they were still legitimate in 2011 when he sold the club to Whyte. The issue that HMRC is pursuing through the Courts is the payment of outstanding tax due against the EBTs. The previous judgment was that tax was not required to be repaid. The appeal decision is that HMRC are entitled to go after the non-paid tax. Tas - here's the end of the stick that you're at -------> X Now, let's look for the right end of the stick: Keep looking Keep on looking Keep on for a bit ... Here it is -------------> X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Strange thing this ennui. I might even have been suffering from a bit of it myself - but guess what shook me out of it? The horrendous attempts at propaganda from the SMSM - the bare-faced, outrageous, patronising defence mechanisms that have bombarded us since the CoS ruling. That and of course the complete lack - yet again - of any semblance of contrition from Ibrox. That "we will not accept or countenance" statement... don't get me started. But at least Rangers have a right to be wildly biased in this - the media don't. There is a sense now in which - for non-Rangers fans - there will always be a figurative asterisk against these titles in any case, whether or not an official one is added. But our authorities have a chance here to show that, just occasionally, they have the ability to apply rules without fear or favour and thereby restore a tiny bit of faith. Why should there be any contrition from Ibrokes? They are a totally different club. Oh, wait a minute.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidsnot Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This is all a bit Sergey, guys. Do people honestly want them stripped of their titles? What good would that achieve other than satisfying a few bitter supporters of other clubs. The game in Scotland is a big enough joke without all this shite. Move on. If there was a poll taken right now then I'd say 70% of Jambos would say strip them of their trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think that's more to annoy the Nats on here. I think you'll find your outnumbered on that front Seymour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) It isn't like Rangers came up with EBTs themselves. At the time they were seen as legitimate. The Courts have now said otherwise. Calling it cheating is a stretch. Or are we also cheats for handing out contracts that we couldn't afford to pay and then diddling the tax man out of millions. EBTs were quite widely used, were they not? It isn't like it was just a thing that Rangers came up with and those in charge signed off on it in a giant conspiracy to cheat the other side of the old firm and Scottish football. I just think rag dolling a dead legal entity is pointless and will serve to do nothing other than please people that hate Rangers. It is nothing to do with politics or my love of the Monarchy. I think you need to see the comments made to HMRC from "Mr Black" in which he admits pretty much that they knew they were sailing close to the wind and were doing so to get a competitive advantage. Remember HMRC offered them the chance to pay up without penalty which would have been the end of the matter but Rangers said no and pushed it further therefore not only did they have a good idea it was illegal (thats why the side letters were there to guarantee return which is then turning it into a vehicle for renumeration, taxable and undeclared to the SFA ) they also felt they were untouchable. EBT's are legal but not when you use them like this that makes it tax evasion, this isnt a loophole used it was clearly wrong then and now and they knew it. Look I couldnt care about the titles what I do care is that the SFA/SPFL are taken to task for not acting and Rangers are held accountable for tax evasion which has gained a sporting advantage for a decade. For the sake of the integrity of the game there has to be a consequence for deliberate tax evasion and that is clearly the case here. Edited November 12, 2015 by Jamboelite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 In other news Mr Brown is playing a blinder for Chucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Anymore updates from the Chuckle Brother case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 He's still alive and kicking!!! @Bryce9A I assume you are joking? 6:43 a.m. - 12 Nov 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I've had a wee debate in the comments section on that Telegraph article with a bluenosed poster going by the name 'joestrummer'. His mantra is that Celtic, Aberdeen & Dundee Utd cheated their way to trophies and titles - presumably on the bases of EBT to Juninho and massive debts respectively. I thought it strange he never mentioned the JTs in his ill-informed rant. (Realise it's a completely nothing post but at least it's better than just putting a full stop in a reply) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think you need to see the comments made to HMRC from "Mr Black" in which he admits pretty much that they knew they were sailing close to the wind and were doing so to get a competitive advantage. Remember HMRC offered them the chance to pay up without penalty which would have been the end of the matter but Rangers said no and pushed it further therefore not only did they have a good idea it was illegal (thats why the side letters were there to guarantee return which is then turning it into a vehicle for renumeration, taxable and undeclared to the SFA ) they also felt they were untouchable. EBT's are legal but not when you use them like this that makes it tax evasion, this isnt a loophole used it was clearly wrong then and now and they knew it. Look I couldnt care about the titles what I do care is that the SFA/SPFL are taken to task for not acting and Rangers are held accountable for tax evasion which has gained a sporting advantage for a decade. For the sake of the integrity of the game there has to be a consequence for deliberate tax evasion and that is clearly the case here. Also remember SDM offered HMRC ?10m to STFU, and they said "we don't do deals on tax" or similar ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I've had a wee debate in the comments section on that Telegraph article with a bluenosed poster going by the name 'joestrummer'. His mantra is that Celtic, Aberdeen & Dundee Utd cheated their way to trophies and titles - presumably on the bases of EBT to Juninho and massive debts respectively. I thought it strange he never mentioned the JTs in his ill-informed rant. (Realise it's a completely nothing post but at least it's better than just putting a full stop in a reply) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 5m5 minutes ago Breaking:The same lawyer acted for Charles Green as acted for Andy Coulson court told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Breaking:The same lawyer acted for Charles Green as acted for Andy Coulson court told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 It's like snooker. Whyte stuck behind the Green and Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Going back a bit, James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Brown points out that in the Rangers IPO document the "prospect of future litigation" was specifically mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Open in app Sign up Log in James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Court now being shown a contract between "The Rangers Football Club ltd" and Charles Green from September 2012. James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman The contract is backdated to 1 June. 2012 Edited November 12, 2015 by Dannie Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon tinted glasses 2 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Breaking:The same lawyer acted for Charles Green as acted for Andy Coulson court told. Would that have been Timothy Langdale at up to ?750 per hour charge..........Tim's getting it up rangers again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon tinted glasses 2 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Would that have been Timothy Langdale at up to ?750 per hour charge..........Tim's getting it up rangers again. I'll get my coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Brown now moves on to "the vexed question of the mythical concept of the club" James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Brown asks "what does the rest of the world outside football think what a club is." Judge "club can be used in a number of ways" Judge says that the "articles of association show Ranger started is a club" Brown replies this changed when incorporated, Brown "A club can not sign contracts." Edited November 12, 2015 by Dannie Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musemic Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If there was a poll taken right now then I'd say 70% of Jambos would say strip them of their trophies. I'd be surprised if it was as low as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This Brown chappie could do some real damage to the yo-yo old club/new club/company/same club illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Brown now quoting from Rangers incorporation document from 1889. Notes it says "takeover the assets" bit does not mention "club" Brown says if you wanted to by George Herriots FP (a rugby club in Edinburgh) you would just have to buy the assets James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Brown says that there is a difference between the company and the business assets but not between a "club and a company" 7:06 a.m. - 12 Nov 2015 Brown "Sevco Scotland did not buy "the club" the bought the business and assets of the club" Edited November 12, 2015 by Dannie Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Brown moves on to Lord Nimmo Smith report to the SPL. Brown Says a club is an "undertaking" of it's owners and as it "has neither capacity of personality" no-one can be CEO of it. "The team are paid by Sevco, play at a ground owned by Sevco trained by a manager who is employed by Sevco, fans buy tickets from Sevco" 1/2 Brown says Rangers was "a basket of assets that could be sold," but these were not indivisible. Brown "What is the players went one way and the ground another, where is the "club" then.? Brown. "I realise that Rangers being the same club is a matter of life and death to some," Edited November 12, 2015 by Dannie Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmiyaHearts Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 @STVGrant also doing regular updates from court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidsnot Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'd be surprised if it was as low as thatI'm really basing it on what's been said by various posters,there's a fair few who don't want RFC stripped of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidsnot Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This Brown chappie could do some real damage to the yo-yo old club/new club/company/same club illusion. I've a sneaky feeling it will go Sevco's way after all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) More James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 5m5 minutes ago "The team are paid by Sevco, play at a ground owned by Sevco trained by a manager who is employed by Sevco, fans buy tickets from Sevco" 1/2 Edited November 12, 2015 by Walter Bishop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 2m2 minutes ago Wouldn't be a proper legal case without "the elephant in the room" getting mentioned 10 retweets11 likes Reply Retweet 10 Like 11 More James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago Brown. "I realise that Rangers being the same club is a matter of life and death to some," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Im losing this so what is Brown trying to prove with the Sevco chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Hector sitting with a huge smile and rubbing of hands....... Phoenix. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited November 12, 2015 by Rudi-Mental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman James Doleman ? ?@jamesdoleman Brown says that Green "was prepared to depart the scene without fuss," but if he was "dragged back in" agreement was "you pay the lawyers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackney Hearts Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm really basing it on what's been said by various posters,there's a fair few who don't want RFC stripped of anything. There are a few who aren't bothered (not 30%). And of course a number of posters on here appear to have Rangers leanings whatever the issue. Some don't care about the titles because they want Rangers punished in a more meaningful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 There are a few who aren't bothered (not 30%). And of course a number of posters on here appear to have Rangers leanings whatever the issue. Some don't care about the titles because they want Rangers punished in a more meaningful way. "Someone" should start a poll on here .., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Brown says the wording of the indemnity agreement shows "it was to be as wide as possible." From what I'm reading from the Twitter updates Green will get his bills paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This blog is well worth a read to understand where we are with the fallout from the CoS decision http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=28380 Excellently constructed and delivered. The SMSM response in all of this has been embarrassing although unsurprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 More James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 5m5 minutes ago "The team are paid by Sevco, play at a ground owned by Sevco trained by a manager who is employed by Sevco, fans buy tickets from Sevco" 1/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 2m2 minutes ago Brown says costs decision can not wait until criminal case is over "The rainy day has arrived" he tells the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Brown says costs decision can not wait until criminal case is over "The rainy day has arrived" he tells the court. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts