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The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.


Sergio Garcia

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HMRC have two options really -

 

Let it slide then hammer them and have the gates padlocked/operation shut down.

 

Get on top of them on a monthly basis with frequent winding up orders.

 

If the latter - then it will help Rangers IMO - they'll be forced to clear that debt and keep the HMRC vulture at bay.

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I've said this a few times before, its not unclear who owns Ibrox. Granted various parts are leased out to businesses etc but its The Rangers Football Club Ltd that own Ibrox Stadium - the title number is GLA210958.

 

They also own the car park.

Edited by mrmarkus1981
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I've said this a few times before, its not unclear who owns Ibrox. Granted various parts are leased out to businesses etc but its The Rangers Football Club Ltd that own Ibrox Stadium - the title number is GLA210958.

 

They also own the car park.

 

THe lack if clarity is because the title were owned by SEVCO5088 ( Dir C WHyte, C Green ) then transferred to SEVCO Scotland (Dir Green) - seemingly without the permission of Whyte, and certainly not bought by the new company SECO Scotland.

Whyte contests ( and the accounts confirm) that ownership is disputed between these companies and has not been resolved

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Charlie-Brown

I've said this a few times before, its not unclear who owns Ibrox. Granted various parts are leased out to businesses etc but its The Rangers Football Club Ltd that own Ibrox Stadium - the title number is GLA210958.

 

They also own the car park.

 

That is not in dispute what is in dispute is how the assets got transferred from Rangers Plc to Sevco 5088 then onto Sevco Scotland then Rangers Football Club Ltd.

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THe lack if clarity is because the title were owned by SEVCO5088 ( Dir C WHyte, C Green ) then transferred to SEVCO Scotland (Dir Green) - seemingly without the permission of Whyte, and certainly not bought by the new company SECO Scotland.

Whyte contests ( and the accounts confirm) that ownership is disputed between these companies and has not been resolved

 

Ah, i see. As far as the Registers of Scotland are concerned its TRFC Ltd, i suppose i could get a copy of the deed which transferred the stadium between Sevco5088\Sevco Scotland and see who signed it :toff:

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Also, if Ibrox were subject to a charge as security for a loan, would this appear on the deeds?

Edited by davieholt
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Also, if Ibrox were subject to a charge as security for a loan, would this appear on the deeds?

 

Yes, and they have no secured loans over it.

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alwaysthereinspirit

551501 replies to this topic :thumbsup:

Give or take 1/2 a million. :2thumbsup:

Edited by alwaysthereinspirit
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THe lack if clarity is because the title were owned by SEVCO5088 ( Dir C Whyte, C Green ) then transferred to SEVCO Scotland (Dir Green) - seemingly without the permission of Whyte, and certainly not bought by the new company SEVCO Scotland.

 

This is exactly as I remember it happening. Whyte is no fool and having bought Ibrox for a quid would not have willing just given it away. It was "stolen" off him, therefore all the subsequent transfers are irrelevant as he still owns the place.

 

Whether or not the GFA have the testicular fortitude to impose their own rules once this becomes public knowledge and revoke RIFC's licence remains to be seen.

 

I think it's two years tomorrow that FCCheats went into administration but this story, and this thread, still have a long way to go before closure.

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BRAVEHEART1874

When will the automatic relegation for administration come in mr Doncaster now there is the opportunity to provide a 42 club solution ?

 

A tough rule but a worthy one for sevco who just can't learn there lessons ;)

If ever they was a right time to update the rules ...

unless you don't think 2 administrations / liquidation in now soon to be just over 2 years deserving enough !!!

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What if The Rangers went into voluntary admin through insolvency, whyte lodges an injunction on the cva freezing it ?. Imagine the seethe..

 

I guess it is getting to the point where Whyte needs to show his hand.

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What if The Rangers went into voluntary admin through insolvency, whyte lodges an injunction on the cva freezing it ?. Imagine the seethe..

Exactly! Their Administration Event, if it happens and this scenario plays out, could last a very long time. There's going to be a load of brinksmanship going on, and I somehow don't think that Rangers have (or has he ever really been away) heard the last of Craig Whyte.
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This is the scenario I expected to happen, however there may be three flies in ointment:

 

Firstly, looking at most clubs that have went into admin it has taken at least 3 months to come out of admin (probably due to legal issues) so they need to do this sooner rather than later and if they wait until March then this may screw them up for the championship and another points deduction.

 

Secondly, Leeds Utd (I think) tried this in 2007 when they were already down and the FA hammered them for the following season as well (I know that this would mean the SFA would have to have some form of integrity to follow suit, which will be doubtful)

 

Thirdly, HMRC having been dicked twice for huge bills may decide enough is enough. I don't know legally what they are able to do but cannot see them just allowing this to go on and on with them losing out on millions of pounds.

 

If HMRC feel they have been dicked, they might challenge the administration and The Rangers might not get the friendly administrator they want. This could also force a delay of a few months similar to what we had.

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What if The Rangers went into voluntary admin through insolvency, whyte lodges an injunction on the cva freezing it ?. Imagine the seethe..

]Dont think that is outrageous frankly. I can really see this happening. i also suspect this will deter The Rangers from entering into admin,as whyte will put down as a creditor

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tartofmidlothian

I'm 100% convinced all Whyte wants is a "feck off" payment tbh. But an admin event might be his opportunity to turn the screw on them..

 

Spivtastic ...

 

 

Hmfc the team for me ...

 

But do the club still have enough to pay any hypothetical claim he might make?

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I'm 100% convinced all Whyte wants is a "feck off" payment tbh. But an admin event might be his opportunity to turn the screw on them..

 

Spivtastic ...

 

 

Hmfc the team for me ...

Might well be the case - however the other scenario is that with Whyte having his present "difficulties" with Ticketus, he may well se the value of the fixed assets as his way out of that particular jam. I would not be at all surprised to see Ticketus as the eventual owners of Ibrox and any team playing there paying through the nose to them for the privilege!

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But do the club still have enough to pay any hypothetical claim he might make?

 

No, they do not.There is no money left to pay anything. let alone a settlement with this magnitude

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Allowayjambo1874

I'm 100% convinced all Whyte wants is a "feck off" payment tbh. But an admin event might be his opportunity to turn the screw on them..

 

Spivtastic ...

 

 

Hmfc the team for me ...

 

People are all over their accounts, almost become a national obsession so if this is the case I doubt they will be able to do this through the books. Read into that what you will. Also I wonder how much would be enough for Whyte to go away. Being honest I am surprised given the nutters around that he may still be on the scene and may possibly be trying to squeeze them for cash.

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Skivingatwork

 

Might well be the case - however the other scenario is that with Whyte having his present "difficulties" with Ticketus, he may well se the value of the fixed assets as his way out of that particular jam. I would not be at all surprised to see Ticketus as the eventual owners of Ibrox and any team playing there paying through the nose to them for the privilege!

 

This is the crux for me.

 

Ticketus are still chasing Whyte for c?20m which, if successful, will require Whtye to show his hand regarding assets etc as not sure his off the radar wealth will cover it.

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Another point on the "controlled" administration occurred to me today. If they have a chance of winning the Scottish Cup then they'll want to postpone redundancies surely? And if so, it batters their chances for getting it out of the way in the close season.

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Hagar the Horrible

If they get in and out of administration and there are a new set of owners/spivs, then Whytes claim on anything will be twice removed and as such gone, he needs to play all of his cards soon. What I will say in Whyte's favour is that when he claimed he was in league with Green and Green denied it and every body believed Green, Whyte (via Charlotte) provided taped evidence.

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If they get in and out of administration and there are a new set of owners/spivs, then Whytes claim on anything will be twice removed and as such gone, he needs to play all of his cards soon. What I will say in Whyte's favour is that when he claimed he was in league with Green and Green denied it and every body believed Green, Whyte (via Charlotte) provided taped evidence.

 

Not sure on your first point. If I bought a car and it turned out that there was existing finance on it it would legally belong to the finance company and would be taken from me with no recompense, if I sold it before they took it back would they lose their claim to it?

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Might well be the case - however the other scenario is that with Whyte having his present "difficulties" with Ticketus, he may well se the value of the fixed assets as his way out of that particular jam. I would not be at all surprised to see Ticketus as the eventual owners of Ibrox and any team playing there paying through the nose to them for the privilege!

 

I was thinking the same. He's unlikely to have the cash to pay Ticketus and handing over the assets would get him out of that particular jam, while crippling Rangers hopefully for many years to come.

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If they get in and out of administration and there are a new set of owners/spivs, then Whytes claim on anything will be twice removed and as such gone, he needs to play all of his cards soon. What I will say in Whyte's favour is that when he claimed he was in league with Green and Green denied it and every body believed Green, Whyte (via Charlotte) provided taped evidence.

. First thing Whyte would do would be to obtain an interdict preventing the administrators from disposing of any of the fixed assets until a court determines who the rightful owner of the to be. Any Administrstion for the Rangres just now could be lengthy and very very messy. If their mony us running out, however, there wouldn't appear to be any other outcome for them on the horizon.
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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic

 

 

I think you may just be correct.

 

It's two years this week since he was emptied. It just doesn't make any sense for someone to chase long shot legal challenges when he himself is being challenged for upwards of 20mil. I'd be keeping my head down.

Edited by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
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Guest Bilel Mohsni

 

 

And he's getting his kicks from phoning Alex Thomson every few months.

 

Possibly. :lol:

 

I just can't see what he could possibly have, if he's not already came out and declared his position yet.

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If HMRC feel they have been dicked, they might challenge the administration and The Rangers might not get the friendly administrator they want. This could also force a delay of a few months similar to what we had.

 

This is more or less what a relative who works in HMRC told me a few weeks ago. Hector is waiting to pounce!

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Hagar the Horrible

 

. First thing Whyte would do would be to obtain an interdict preventing the administrators from disposing of any of the fixed assets until a court determines who the rightful owner of the to be. Any Administrstion for the Rangres just now could be lengthy and very very messy. If their mony us running out, however, there wouldn't appear to be any other outcome for them on the horizon.

2 things, Whyte is either fully in with Green or Green has shafted him, then its between them to sort it out but as the later has never actually taken anybody else to court, (its always been the other way around). But I am willing to bet Ibrox will be preserved under the ownership of the spivs before going into pre-pack, they can do this, and it means they hold all the cards.

Edited by Hagar the Horrible
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2 things, Whyte is either fully in with Green or Green has shafted him, then its between them to sort it out but as the later has never actually taken anybody else to court, (its always been the other way around). But I am willing to bet Ibrox will be preserved under the ownership of the spivs before going into pre-pack, they can do this, and it means they hold all the cards.

 

Can directors sell/gift assets to another company just prior to going into administration? Didn't Whyte get banned for 7 years from being a director for doing the same thing?

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic

 

 

When deloittes made it that whytes claim to the assets/ doubts over the ownership had to be written into the accounts, then you know he has something. Even spurious the doubt is there that the whole sevco5088 to sevco Scotland transfer of the assets was illegal.

 

 

Hmfc the team for me ...

 

What do you think he's waiting for then? Can't think of too many instances where someone is shafted out of potential millions by illegal chicanery and then lets two whole years pass while doing nothing about it.

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What do you think he's waiting for then? Can't think of too many instances where someone is shafted out of potential millions by illegal chicanery and then lets two whole years pass while doing nothing about it.

 

I assume that some of the penny shares can not be sold until certain date to stop investors dumping them straight away. i.e. penny shares cant be sold for 2 or 3 years, or until the company/club return to the top flight.

 

If Green and Whyte are in this together then Whyte will only make a claim when Green sells his shares as the claim off the ownership may affect the share price. In return Green is keeping quite on Whytes involvement.

 

That's my conspiracy theory for today!

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Geoff Kilpatrick

 

 

I assume that some of the penny shares can not be sold until certain date to stop investors dumping them straight away. i.e. penny shares cant be sold for 2 or 3 years, or until the company/club return to the top flight.

 

If Green and Whyte are in this together then Whyte will only make a claim when Green sells his shares as the claim off the ownership may affect the share price. In return Green is keeping quite on Whytes involvement.

 

That's my conspiracy theory for today!

Except Chuck has departed the scene.

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What do you think he's waiting for then? Can't think of too many instances where someone is shafted out of potential millions by illegal chicanery and then lets two whole years pass while doing nothing about it.

. If his claim is legally sound, then he just needs to wait this out and pick up the scraps when Armageddon comes.
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Except Chuck has departed the scene.

 

Although still has his shares I believe?

 

Regardless it's still a conspiracy theory from myside.

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I'd say that whytes best chance of asserting what rights he has or believes he is would be if sevco were in administration.

 

Why? Because no matter what friendly administrators they got the whole process is wrapped in a legal process.

 

Any administration the rangers go into could be a long and painful one, straddling two seasons....

 

;-)

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Skivingatwork

Whyte will currently be taking legal advice which will be to keep quiet about the details for the time being as it may prejudice any future court case.

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Footballfirst

The SPFL getting their rules sorted out so at not to impede the phoenix like rise and rise of TRFC should they go into Admin

 

http://www.telegraph...nistration.html

 

 

The Scottish Professional Football League has abandoned plans to punish clubs who enter administration with automatic demotion.

 

When the proposal was put forward by the president of a lower league club at an SPFL board meeting last October there was initial enthusiasm, with the feeling that such a severe sanction would act as a deterrent for any financially troubled club who viewed administration as a way to wipe out debts and remove employees from their wage bill.

 

However, following several months of negotiations with all 42 member clubs, it has been decided not to place that punishment on the statute books.

 

While support remained for the move, the majority opinion was that there were issues attached to it which could not be immediately resolved.

 

?There was a wide consultation process and we spent time looking at it but, ultimately, the prevailing opinion was that there were complications arising from it which raised other questions,? said a Hampden source.

 

?For example, if a member goes into administration while playing in League Two then where would we put them?

 

?Also, if a club wins promotion and then suffers an insolvency event, do we simply refuse to promote them or do we relegate them from the division which they have just been playing in?

 

?Because of that it was decided to persevere with the current system, which sees clubs handed a 15-point penalty for entering administration and 25 points if it happens again within a five-year period.?

 

It has also been agreed that, in future, the SPFL Board will have the sole responsibility for adjudication regarding clubs who might face liquidation.

 

?It will be down to the board to determine any conditions for a transfer of membership if a club is liquidated and attempts to go down the newco route,? said the source.

 

?That may include any new owners posting a bond for security.?

 

Hearts, bottom of the Premiership, are optimistic that they will shortly be in a position to exit administration.

 

Dave King, a former director of Rangers ? who suffered both administration and liquidation in 2012 ? claimed on Monday that the League One leaders will run out of money next month.

Edited by Footballfirst
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Geoff Kilpatrick

I look forward to Third Rangers buying history et al from Sevco, with the mutant's full support.

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Allowayjambo1874

Unbelievable, the 2 examples that they cite as being problem areas are a complete joke. League 2 team in admin has to go into re-election process and takes it's chances, club going into admin during any part of the season has to play following season in one league lower than it should have been (so promoted team stays where they are, relegated team drop two divisions).

 

Remember these rules are supposed to deter anyone from going into admin not on how to make life easier if they do.

 

Last line is very telling re King's allegations. And so the pieces fall into place.

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Footballfirst

The key part of the article, assuming that it is true, is the reinforcement of the SPFL Board's discretion to deal with situations as they see fit.

 

It has also been agreed that, in future, the SPFL Board will have the sole responsibility for adjudication regarding clubs who might face liquidation.

?It will be down to the board to determine any conditions for a transfer of membership if a club is liquidated and attempts to go down the newco route,?

 

IMO that is a bad move as it puts the power into the hands of a few rather than the majority of clubs.

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The key part of the article, assuming that it is true, is the reinforcement of the SPFL Board's discretion to deal with situations as they see fit.

 

 

 

IMO that is a bad move as it puts the power into the hands of a few rather than the majority of clubs.

 

....................which means they have carte-blanche to help their darlings in any/every way they can, despite any protestation from other clubs.............farce!

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