48131 replies to this topic

[PortyJambo]

Socrates, on 03 July 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Am I right in thinking that the number of SFL clubs who have announced support for The Rangers being in division one next year is still zero?

Hence the desperate attempts by Green to get the SPL to keep them in, assisted by succulent lamb munchers at the DR and Sun.

[7628mm]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Neil Doncaster tells sfl that Sky, Espn and sport 5 deals at threat as contracts require RFC in spl in 2013/14 value 17.35 mill

So the Dungcaster presentation will be the full monty words and all with the aid of "that" Powerpoint presentation which as far as I am aware has no not one and there never will be one...................................member of the SFL supporting it. In fact many members have rubbished it over the previous days.

Go on yersell you Donkeycaster you de man

[Pat Mustard]

hearts151, on 03 July 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Agreed in 2009 so that would be 09/10, 10/11, 11/12 £65M / 3 is ~£22M a yr.

This one is ~£16M a year. I know the article says the previous deal was 5 years but I don't think it was. Also if it was why would they up the amount they pay, two years early when they don't need too.

You're misreading it. It was £65m over 5 years but they agreed an early extension which made it £80m over the 5 years from the point of the extension.

[Brian Dundas]

Jambo66, on 03 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Several years ago, the English Rugby Union negotiated a deal with Sky to televise all of its home matches at Twickenham including the 6 nations.  When the other countries found out, they told the RFU that their Sky deal was all fine and well, but they wouldn't be playing them in the 6 nations.  In other words, you need two teams to play a game and if one of them doesn't turn up, you will get nothing from your TV deal.

This is the situation facing Celtic.  They have no power here and will have to negotiate with the other clubs.  The other clubs simply need to have the bottle to tell them that TV money is divided equally or there will be no deal at all.

This is where the negotiating problems begin.  Celtic's SPL TV money is a much smaller and by that I mean vastly less proportion of there turnover.  They would be the club best placed to survive zero TV money, that is how Rangers got the 11/1 and current TV split in place the last time the upped the share for the rest.

So whatever happens to Sevco next season is going to be another tough one.

[269miles]

audioslave, on 03 July 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Hang on. SPL contracts require Rangers to be in the top division at the beginning of 2013/2014 season? Who the funk wrote up those deals?

"Aye so it's fine to not have Rangers in the league during 2012/2013 but I tell you what, if they're out in 2013/2014 as well, then this here contract is getting put through the shredder."

Quite convieniant that isn't it, 2013/2014 - almost like it's designed to factor in Rangers having a year in the first division...

The whole thing stinks. Time for someone to punch Doncaster and co so hard that their bones turn to paste.

Well you have to give Sky some credit. I'm sure the contract will say that If either of the OF drops out , the contract is financially affected. But then , you have to wonder why Sky thought that clause was so necessary to any TV deal. The SFA/SPL/SFL clearly never thought any thing would happen in this regard - hence all the rule changing , restructuring panic and general disregard for good governance.

Maybe Sky were more switched on than anyone ever realised - did they understand & acknowledge (in the TV contract) what was coming down the railway tracks in Rangers direction ?

[bean counter]

Socrates, on 03 July 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Third thing - is Doncaster telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I doubt it very much.

I doubt it as well.

When all this farce fails and the newco apply for Div 3 the Chairman of the SPL and the SFA must look at Doncasters conduct throughout the whole affair along with his previous conduct of agreeing contracts that he cannot deliver.

He must go

[Lovecraft]

SO......

Rangers get punted down to the First division

They struggle for the beginning of the season

They get better near the end, and it comes down to the last game of the season which they must win by at least 2 goals to be promoted.

..........


.......


....

[I P Knightley]

Diego10, on 03 July 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Blame the clubs then.  Any suggestion he's coming up with all this nonsense of his own volition is ridiculous.  He us an administrator, he does what the clubs tell him.

Celtic and Rangers being the lead payers for the piper.

Not necessarily.

In a very different field and on a different scale, I've worked in the executive of a members' body and half of the task was hoodwinking the members into accepting our strategies as if they'd come up with them themselves.

Doncaster could well be taking things on his own initiative and playing a political game here. It certainly looks like he's trying to play one that will keep him in the comfort to which he's become accustomed - regardless of any benefit or detriment to his members.

[tartofmidlothian]

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

SFA ch exec Stewart Regan now addressing the SFL meeting

[Diego10]

audioslave, on 03 July 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Hang on. SPL contracts require Rangers to be in the top division at the beginning of 2013/2014 season? Who the funk wrote up those deals?

"Aye so it's fine to not have Rangers in the league during 2012/2013 but I tell you what, if they're out in 2013/2014 as well, then this here contract is getting put through the shredder."

Quite convieniant that isn't it, 2013/2014 - almost like it's designed to factor in Rangers having a year in the first division...

The whole thing stinks. Time for someone to punch Doncaster and co so hard that their bones turn to paste.

no forgetting that this SKY contract was written before Rangers went to the wall, so would have assumed that they would be SPL anyway.

what happens if they go into league 1, can't attract a suitable calibre of player to replace the leavers and don't actually get promoted under this plan?

it's the biggest pile of bollocks since Tom Cruise and John Travolta last hosted a party.

[BlackJAC?]

The SPL needs disbanded.  They have openly admitted there's one set of rules for the OF and another set of rules for the rest of us.

Edited by BlackJAC?, 03 July 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[Dick Player]

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

SFA ch exec Stewart Regan now addressing the SFL meeting


Hopefully there is some form of summary of what was said reported after the meeting.

[Lovecraft]

Arnold, on 03 July 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

SFA ch exec Stewart Regan now addressing the SFL meeting


Hopefully there is some form of summary of what was said reported after the meeting.

I think the Raith Chairman will come out and tell everyone exactly what was said.

[gnasher75]

gnasher75, on 16 June 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

I totally agree with the idea of the new Rangers being suspended for a season.  It's ridiculous having all this uncertainty hanging over every other club in the country with several teams not even knowing which division they'll be playing in in 6 weeks time.  The best way forward is for the SFA to tell them they won't be registered in time for next season and give them a year to get themselves sorted out before applying to join the new league set-up which will be in place from 2013/14.  That would mean none of the current Rangers players would hang around and they would literally have to start again from scratch.

I would imagine the Rangers fans would be stupid enough to buy season tickets to watch an EBT Tax-dodgers/Legends team playing friendlies at Ibrox every weekend.  Which reminds me, I'm still raging at the SPL giving permission to Rangers and Celtic on 31st May, while all this was going on, to postpone their home fixtures on the weekend of 11/12 August to play "lucrative glamour friendlies".    I would love it if Rangers were forced to spend a whole season playing friendlies.  

The only thing that would be funnier would be to tell them they are suspended for a year and watch all their players leave; then vote to allow them into the SPL at the last minute but impose a ban on signing any new players; and then relegate them before Christmas for not fulfilling their fixtures, with a fine for not acting in good faith towards the SPL.  

I still want "Rangers" to have to apply to join the SFL 3rd Division because that is what should happen.

But just thinking through Charles Green's 6-point plan...  if that was accepted and "Rangers" were allowed to join the SPL but with a significant points deduction - something like 50 rather than just 10 for being in administration - plus a ban on signing any new players, with the squad they've now got left is there not a serious possibility they would get relegated next season?  

If they get to start again in the 3rd Division, their fans will be able to take the moral high ground and will probably watch their new team get promoted each year until they rejoin the SPL.  

I think I might enjoy it even more if they had to watch their team struggling every week and ended up getting relegated.

[jambovambo]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

SFA ch exec Stewart Regan now addressing the SFL meeting

What an attempt at a stitch-up this is !?

Just have to pray it fails.

[Jambo66]

Brian Dundas, on 03 July 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

This is where the negotiating problems begin.  Celtic's SPL TV money is a much smaller and by that I mean vastly less proportion of there turnover.  They would be the club best placed to survive zero TV money, that is how Rangers got the 11/1 and current TV split in place the last time the upped the share for the rest.

So whatever happens to Sevco next season is going to be another tough one.

That may be true, however, in the longer term zero TV coverage would destroy Celtic very quickly.  There is no way that they would be able to attract star players to Celtic Park if the only games that were televised were European games.  Players and clubs need media exposure otherwise people will not be interested in them.  The remaining teams in the SPL could do a deal for TV coverage (albeit for not very much money) for all games apart from those involving Celtic.  There is actually nothing Celtic could do about that.

Scottish football genuinely has Celtic over a barrel just now.  We have to use that power to change Scottish football for good and forever.  This really is our one and only chance.

[Dick Player]

BlackJAC?, on 03 July 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

The SPL needs disbanded.  They have openly admitted there's one set of rules for the OF and another set of rules for the rest of us.

Pretty much. They would have to rig the league in order to protect their precious broadcasting contracts.


Hopefully, one of the first things to be done is that arsehole Doncaster is launched. Preferably back to Norwich.  

[I P Knightley]

Apologies to all for the time zone delay but...

gnasher75, on 03 July 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

It's like a man found guilty saying to the judge: "If you give me a few hours community service instead of sending me to prison then I promise I'll say sorry for being a naughty boy."

It's worse than that Gnasher. It's a man known to be guilty telling us that he's guilty but at the same time saying that he won't admit that he's guilty unless we promise not to convict or punish him for being guilty.

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Neil Doncaster about to start presentation to SFL.

I take it we've thoroughly discussed the (lack of) appropriateness of Neil Doncaster addressing the chairmen of the clubs in an association over which he has no jurisdiction.

It's like having the Pope address the general assembly of the Church of Scotland ahead of them taking a vote on their constitution.

[tartofmidlothian]

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

[Dick Player]

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

Edited by Arnold, 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM.

[jambovambo]

Ooops

Edited by jambovambo, 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM.

[Lovecraft]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

Read as UEFA will not allow Newco into SPL.

[bean counter]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

Excellent

[livingstonjambo]

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

GIRFUY

Maybe James Jabba should have asked Mr Regan prior to his 'exclusive' today

Edited by livingstonjambo, 03 July 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[Pat Mustard]

audioslave, on 03 July 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Hang on. SPL contracts require Rangers to be in the top division at the beginning of 2013/2014 season? Who the funk wrote up those deals?

"Aye so it's fine to not have Rangers in the league during 2012/2013 but I tell you what, if they're out in 2013/2014 as well, then this here contract is getting put through the shredder."

Quite convieniant that isn't it, 2013/2014 - almost like it's designed to factor in Rangers having a year in the first division...

The whole thing stinks. Time for someone to punch Doncaster and co so hard that their bones turn to paste.

He's telling lies as well.  The potential savings that Sky could make in renegotiating the contract are far less than they'd lose in negative PR, goodwill & subscriptions in Scotland.  They're simply not going to walk away.

[henry]

Lovecraft, on 03 July 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

http://sport.stv.tv/...gers-situation/

Raith Rovers director Turnbull Hutton says clubs in the Scottish Football League are being “lied to, bullied and threatened” by the Scottish FA and Scottish Premier League in a “corrupt” move to aid Rangers.

The 30 member clubs of the SFL are meeting at Hampden on Tuesday to discuss proposals which would see Charles Green’s newco parachuted into the First Division, as opposed to applying to enter at Third Division level.

A presentation sent out by the league to its members last week warned £16m could be wiped out from the Scottish game if Rangers had to play in the bottom tier.

It promised an additional £1m would be divided amongst clubs in TV money if the club were to participate in the First Division, with play-offs and a change to financial distribution also proposed.

The plans came as a result of extensive talks between the SFL, Scottish Premier League and Scottish FA. Hutton though insists clubs outside of the top flight are being “railroaded”.

“It is not an SFL issue,” he said. “We’ve been lumbered with this. There are rules we feel they should be followed. They [newco Rangers] should apply for the Third Division.

“[We are being] bullied, railroaded and lied to. We are being lied to by the Scottish FA and the SPL. We are being threatened and bullied. It is not football as I know it.

“It was a ridiculous document which came out last week whereby the threat was there that if you don’t vote for an acceptance into the First Division., a breakaway SPL2 will come along and those who didn’t vote wouldn’t be invited.

“What kind of game are we running here? It is corrupt.”

When asked if he agreed with the SFL’s assertion that Sccottish football would face financial meltdown without Rangers, he replied: “I don’t believe that.”

Just watched it on sky sports. Total disgrace if true

[frankblack]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

Common sense, now tell them to apply for the Third Division.

[I.T.K]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

[ToadKiller Dog]

livingstonjambo, on 03 July 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

GIRFUY

To me that reads that should read that Orc FC should Apply to the third div for the spare place and to do anything else would be dishonest , but I have a feeling that it's not the way it's getting put .

[PortyJambo]

Arnold, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

Hope you have a smug greggy face on when you tell Traynor that, Jim.

Edit - begs the question though, why haven't the SFA told the SPL that and stopped any reason for a vote tomorrow?

Edited by PortyJambo, 03 July 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[The Comedian]

The ink on Jabbas arseliken barely had time to dry before it was ripped to pieces.

What a incompetent, useless fat lump of a man.

[kingdannyb]

Jim Spence @bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

2:13pm - 3 Jul 12

[Socrates]

Lovecraft, on 03 July 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Read as UEFA will not allow Newco into SPL.

I'm never sure why people think that UEFA or FIFA care about what happens in Scotland. Yeah, they'll probably do something to make sure that non-Scottish clubs get their money, before Sevco Wanderers get back into Europe, but I don't see any sign that they are all that bothered.

[I P Knightley]

Arnold, on 03 July 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Neil Doncaster tells sfl that Sky, Espn and sport 5 deals at threat as contracts require RFC in spl in 2013/14 value 17.35 mill


Incredible stuff.

...meaning that Doncaster would be forced to do his bloody job and sell TV rights to the SPL.

Preferably, this time, without setting up an corrupt and unsporting condition. What would have happened if Rangers had somehow turned into Hibs or Dunfermline and got themselves relegated?

Man's an arse.

[peter_hmfc]

If the SFA have decided that they won't get into the SPL, doesn't this make tomorrows vote meaningless*?

*Apart from the hilarity of us and teams like St Johnstone telling der huns to **** off.

[Lovecraft]

Doncaster will lose his job over this, regardless of the outcome.

Regan will too if he has been complicit.

But, I think Regan and the SFA will be hugely pressured from UEFA to make sure it is all done by the rules.

[Pat Mustard]

BlackJAC?, on 03 July 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

The SPL needs disbanded.  They have openly admitted there's one set of rules for the OF and another set of rules for the rest of us.

The SPL was set up to allow 12 clubs to take pretty much all the money & strangle the rest of Scottish football, not too distant from an Old Firm mentality really. It absolutely needs disbanding.

[Wee Frah]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

Well surely that renders tomorrows vote pointless?!  Will the SPL still vote on it? I hope they do so as to have no legal comeback on it at all.

[Radge21]

Neil Doncaster only interested in the money from Sky.
Our game is finished.
Sporting integrity?

Why cant journalists pull Doncaster uip and say this is nor acceptable.
Rangers can do anything and get away with it.
As long as we have 4 old firm games every season.

Regan saying the SFA wont let Rangers into the SPL.
No Stewart, the clubs decided over the last two weeks they were not getting in,not you.
Doncaster must be made to resign or be sacked by the member clubs.

[Socrates]

ToadKiller Dog, on 03 July 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

To me that reads that should read that Orc FC should Apply to the third div for the spare place and to do anything else would be dishonest , but I have a feeling that it's not the way it's getting put .

The Comedian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

The ink on Jabbas arseliken barely had time to dry before it was ripped to pieces.

What a incompetent, useless fat lump of a man.

I'm not sure that you're both right here. I wonder if the agreed position of Doncaster/Regan is that the first division is the right option. It would be a bit odd for Doncaster to go and spout his shite, with Regan coming along afterwards to rip him up.

[Lovecraft]

Socrates, on 03 July 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

I'm never sure why people think that UEFA or FIFA care about what happens in Scotland. Yeah, they'll probably do something to make sure that non-Scottish clubs get their money, before Sevco Wanderers get back into Europe, but I don't see any sign that they are all that bothered.

Mainly because FFP is one of the biggest things Platini has been pushing for years.

Everything that is happening in our diddy little country is being seen across the footballing world.

[7628mm]

kingdannyb, on 03 July 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Jim Spence @bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

2:13pm - 3 Jul 12

So this tweet/statement comes from the future?

Over 760 pages and I am more confused than ever aw ma heid

[Pat Mustard]

Lovecraft, on 03 July 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Read as UEFA will not allow Newco into SPL.

I think that's unfair. The SFA have, overall, done a very good job with this saga so far.  Hopefully they continue to do so.

[peter_hmfc]

7628mm, on 03 July 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

So this tweet/statement comes from the future?

Over 760 pages and I am more confused than ever aw ma heid

[AndyMcI]

Arnold, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

What a strange statement and strange timing.

The SPL clubs were given the job of voting to allow rfc newco into SPL or otherwise. Over a period of time clubs have made there choice and now that the vote is pretty much decided the sfa pipe up and state that they weren't going to be allowed in anyway.

Call me a sceptic but if the SPL clubs had voted "yes" to let them back in are we supposed to believe the sfa would then have put their foot down and said no.

If the sfa new this all along why pass the decision to the clubs in the first place.

[Lovecraft]

Rick Grimes, on 03 July 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

I think that's unfair. The SFA have, overall, done a very good job with this saga so far.  Hopefully they continue to do so.

Ogilvie is still working there.

:0)

[Sandi]

Regans statement would be good but it should read that sfa expect rangers to apply for scottish league membership

[gnasher75]

tartofmidlothian, on 03 July 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence

Sfa will not allow rfc newco into spl says Stewart Regan

Just wondering what the logic is from an SFA perspective of not allowing them into the SPL but accepting them in SFL Division 1.

It would make more sense if the SFA were saying "The other SPL have made it clear they won't vote for newco Rangers, therefore..."

But if Regan is saying the SFA will not allow them to play in the SPL, why is it OK for them to play in any league in Scotland?

[Socrates]

Lovecraft, on 03 July 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Mainly because FFP is one of the biggest things Platini has been pushing for years.

Everything that is happening in our diddy little country is being seen across the footballing world.

The FFP part is that Newco can't play in Europe for three years. I don't think that UEFA or FIFA interfere much with how domestic football is run - for example, the whole River Plate nonsense in Argentina was allowed to pass. Also, although we think of Scottish football as being biased/corrupt, it probably isn't that bad compared to some of the other stuff UEFA and FIFA have to deal with.

[Jambo66]

Sandi, on 03 July 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Regans statement would be good but it should read that sfa expect rangers to apply for scottish league membership

surely a good start would be for them to apply for and obtain membership of the SFA?